SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi! All things considered, you've been handling your situation really well! I hope you'll continue to do so!

As for your recent update, I agree with others. From what I've read, she seems remorseless and to be using you as a paycheck... Please, make sure you have a good IC to help you cope with this betrayal and the aftermath.

Also, google "No more mr. nice guy pdf", a great book available online for free that might be a great source of strength for you.

Btw, make sure she doesn't get "accidentally" pregnant to stop you from leaving or to stop her cashflow stopping...

How much of your decision to continue giving her a chance is your fear that she'll stop or drastically lower the contact between you and her son? Have you talked to a lawyer or an IC about this fear?

Best wishes!

I agree with others who say your WW is not ready for R as of now. She is still in the "it's all about me phase" now, and though she claims she is out of the fog, she has no idea what she is talking about. The idea that she would say she has been too busy to read the books you asked her to read is laughable. She needs to work on her priorities.

I think your best option is to read up on the 180, and execute it as best you can. It will not be easy, and you do it not to punish her, but to help yourself heal, because she ain't doing anything to help you heal. A bonus side effect may be the 180 knocking her out of this fantasy land she is in where she just wants to sweep this under the rug and move on. I'm sure she's told you she would do anything, anything to save the M. Well, at least now you know that was just talk. Good luck OP and stay strong. As cliche as it may sound, sometimes in order to save your M you must behave as if you are willing to lose it.

What Hobbes said above. The continual insistence for sex is a huge red flag of wanting to "accidentally" find out she is pregnant. Then it will be that you need to stay for the baby.

You are her Plan B gravy train walking talking cash machine. She has even blatantly said this to you... Please... Get out while you can still do so with minimal residual damage.

At this point, it seems you best bet is to move on without her. Not sleeping with other men is not enough. She is minimizing and oly regrets being caught.

Actually even though I probably come across as not doing much and that is parry true from being on here I did look at the 180 stuff. It was eye opening in that reading what people said how it worked or at least made them feel better. I will just have to make myself to keep at it.

This is not a big deal but I was told I did not need to come in for my 2nd job tonight. Normally that would be great news as we could do something together or a night I usually work late. But I texted a friend that gets together with guys and plays basketball. I am going to do that. Might seem small but that will be a big thing for her to see from me.

I wish she could see that it would not take much from her for me to forgive. I mean I basically was begging for it and it could have been so easy. She does not get it or probably thinks I will just get over it like I usually do with things.

Your wife's behavior is the type I see as an active cheater. I think she may be in contact with other man. Or still badmouthing you to friends.

I suggest putting a voice-activated recorder in her car and also in the house where she is likely to talk when you are not there.

Something is "off" about how she is acting for someone who truly wants to stay married. I think you will find something if you look. Maybe a burner phone. Maybe apps. I think the voice-activated recorder is best to find what's going on.

wk55hn, what do you see if you don't mind telling? I am not saying you are not correct but wonder if it also is she is obtuse of what she is doing or happened. She has always seemed to have it go her way or no mess in her life. At least what I know from her childhood and living with her parents.

Question, is it ok if I post here or am I needing to move to another section. I see new people on telling their stories that they just found out so don't know if its ok for me to still be on here. Thanks.

She said I wont argue but I don't see how he could (have sex with other women) as it was a struggle for him and keeping an erection. I said I know I read when he couldn't perform you did your best to get him there orally.

She got mad and upset.

Gary

The proper response to this would be embarrassment and concern for your feelings. Instead she was mad at you for stating the facts. It was fine for her to do it but it was rude of you to bring it up. Once again it's all about her.

[This message edited by Graywolf at 5:21 PM, April 6th (Wednesday)]

Gary

Your wife's behavior is the type I see as an active cheater. I think she may be in contact with other man. Or still badmouthing you to friends.

I suggest putting a voice-activated recorder in her car and also in the house where she is likely to talk when you are not there.

Something is "off" about how she is acting for someone who truly wants to stay married. I think you will find something if you look. Maybe a burner phone. Maybe apps. I think the voice-activated recorder is best to find what's going on

Listen to WK55. There is literature out there that says women who RESIST doing whatever their husbands need, who break NC ( and your wife has friends who know and talk to this OM), and who do everything she is doing, are not good candidates not to do it again or take the affair underground.

get the VAR in her car. You should have done it the day after you posted. And search everywhere you can think of that you ordinarily not look for a burner phone. Your wife does not work so you do not have to worry about office. Check car, her lingerie drawer, coat pockets, everywhere.

You need to stop being reactive and take some action. She is totally controlling the narrative and you are treading water.

its fine to post here.

Your wife is not into reconciling.

Your wife is into rugsweeping.

How she wants to achieve this is by having sex with you, pouting until she gets her way. I am not shocked. She is a princess. She is a teen who was taught she does not have to be accountable. She was taught if she smiles and looks cute she gets her way.

You can not reconcile with only one doing the work. It says a lot she had time for the ego kibbles texts and her affair, but no time or willingness to do the things you asked. It shows the value of you to her. She means more to her then you do.

I would suggest if you were a woman to put your bitch boots on. Instead I am going to say get a free consult and actually print out divicorce papers. You need to be willing to lose your marriage to save it.

Personally we had inhouse separation for a long time due to my fwh just not being able to grasp ic. He has high functioning asbergers is super smart but socially dumb. Your wife does not have the excuse of time.

Quiet honestly your wife is treating you like a father who caught their daughter out. Basically saying but daddy I wont do it again. Also I am a princess so no std can touch me. So okay daddy I will do the test so I can get you under my spell again.

Sorry to be so harsh.

[This message edited by PricklePatch at 8:24 PM, April 6th (Wednesday)]

I will be even harsher.

Picture this. You with a faithful woman who puts her family first. Whom you don't have to police. Surrounded by two or three kids of your own.

Compare that image to what you presently have. Your wife better become superwife overnight. Because her cheating released you from your promises and related obligations of sacrifice. And you can do whatever brings you the most happiness. Even starting a new family.

Think she gets that yet?

What you posted today made me see the pattern that maybe she was still cheating. A few things in particular from today, but taken in combination with other things you've posted before as well as the way the original affair occurred, tilted it to me.

What I personally see is that she has been begging you for sex from day one you posted here, yet she argues to you about getting tested for STDs. She argues about getting out of committees. She gives you attitude when you don't want to take her to dinner, so she goes herself, leaving you alone. She is flippant to you.

She had enough time for 100s of texts per day and set up sleeping in your house in your bed, go overnight with kid parties, but doesn't have enough time to read what you posted and then fluffed it off. FLIPPANT. And then she is crying how you won't let her back in.

Her appearance means a lot to her.

Everything she posted to you is that she loves you AND HER SON or AND HER FAMILY.

What is taking up all of her time now that she doesn't have to send so many texts? But it is Wednesday and you gave her the stuff before the weekend. And she has not even touched it. And she did not even plan to touch it, not one bit, because she doesn't need it. And she wasn't even going to mention that to you, if you never said a word, she wouldn't, either.

She has been friends with cheaters. Birds of a feather. I wonder if she has had other affairs. Would you be close friends with a cheater, close like your wife was with the other cheaters who have annual girls night trips with cheating and all seem so OK with it all? You would distance those people, your wife has been close to them FOR YEARS.

wonder if it also is she is obtuse of what she is doing or happened. She has always seemed to have it go her way or no mess in her life. At least what I know from her childhood and living with her parents.

No, she is not obtuse, she is flippant and she is ignoring your needs. All she wants to do is manipulate with sex.

The main thing is that she has not had time to read the information and that she did not ever intend to read it and she never even intended to tell you that. I think she probably got rid of it and will need to ask you to send it again. Like she can't look it up herself to find how to help my spouse after cheating.

The second thing is you gave her list of what you need and she gave you anger. She then pooh-poohed every single thing you said you needed. So when she begged and said she would do anything, she said she would do nothing. Instead she thinks if she can get you to sex her again, you will forget. (Search on the internet for "Cheat Once and You're 3.5 Times More Likely to Cheat Again").

No one of her age can be that annoyingly insensitive or slow to understand.

I do not know if she is actively cheating. I suspect she is in contact with other man, or thinking about it. She has mutual friends of other man who have back channels. Most are aware of the cheating at this point.

The number one sign of cheating is to hide/guard the phone. The number two sign of cheating is behavior. The typical cheating behavior is to be distant, and to be annoyed by everything you say or do. Once caught, it is extremely easy to adjust the phone, get an app, get a burner, get back channels to friends, etc. The behavior can be adjusted, too, but not for long. No one can be an actor for very long.

Plus, from looking at many threads here, I can tell you that reading "how to heal your spouse" articles are like kryptonite to an active cheater. A remorseful and even regretful cheater will lap that stuff up and can't get enough of it to try to find out how to help their spouse, but the active cheater can't touch it.

When I say active cheater, I don't necessarily mean she is cheating right now, but she is in the mindset. And she has enough of a posse around her that are OK to help. I think she is in contact with other man, or she is thinking about it and still badmouthing at least one of her friends. I don't have a crystal ball, but there is a bit of seeing the tea leaves about some of the "hints."

I also consider the affair that preceded it. You are in NJ, and the affair was going on during little league. I have two boys who both played little league and my younger one still does and I coach and help run the league, and I am aware that little league in NJ goes from April to July, then maybe a fall ball from September to early November. So the affair was going on for a while and she spent a lot of time with him either in person or in texts. She had sex with him in your house on your bed, which is not too many women will do because most women are very aware of the sacredness of the marital bed.

Also, most women don't transfer emotional and physical attraction from one man to another very easily. They can't change gears easily. I have seen cheater websites where the cheaters talk about how they can't stop thinking about their affair partners. You have posted about her loving you and son and family together, but not how much "in love" she is or how sexy she finds you. Based on many other things she's said and done, it makes me seem that her almost daily begging you for sex to be a manipulation more than an authentic sexual desire. It seems to me she feels if you give in to her for sex, she will feel that she has "won" you back.

Despite the minimization your wife has given you that she had no attraction for other man, she had a fairly long-term affair with plenty of emotional oomph to it and was willing to do an awful lot physically for someone she had no attraction to. Meanwhile you had given her sexy lingerie a while ago and never wore it once for you. Other man made her FEEL GOOD, betrayed spouses almost never make their cheaters feel good, so the cheaters get the urge to talk to the affair partner to feel good again.

Look at DayByDay99 and healingroad's posted on pages 3 and 4. Both of their wives continued cheating with some similarities to yours.

From DayByDay99 Really dig and find out the extent of her activities and what she was saying about you and your marriage in email and texts to friends. Don't be shocked if you find other inappropriate behavior besides what you already know as it usually takes a while to finally cross the line into physical affairs.

From your description your wife appears to be like mine: extremely selfish, immature and entitled. At 45 years old I don't see my WW ever really changing. At least I have seen no indication she wants to do the work to do so. After she came back after 3 months wanting to save our marriage, every conversation was about her. How tough she now has it, how she might not survive financially, etc. After emotionally destroying the person you vowed to love and protect, these are the words of a very selfish person realizing the gravy train is leaving the station

Forget the words, forget the texts. It's all noise and manipulation. You need to see concrete actions and real change.

From healingroad Gary, I see a lot of you in my experience. Like you I gave a lot to my wife, wanted to be a great provider and a great dad. I worked my ass off. I always thought that one of these days she's going to see everything I do and appreciate me instead of complaining about everything.

That day never came. In fact, I got betrayed as my reward just like you were. Why? In my case, it's because my then-wife, at her very core, is an incredibly selfish person who uses people who show her kindness. And she hides her manipulations very very well. I suspect the same is true for you.

Based on what you've said, the odds of her coming around seem low. It's possible, but I would not subject myself to any more hurts (doesn't her whining about wanting you to come to bed and pretend nothing happened hurt you to your very core? If not, you're probably numbed out completely).

This post I just wrote ramble and is not the most cohesive thing I've ever posted, but in conclusion I don't think you should ever divorce or make serious decisions based on someone like me or anyone else here. Rather, consider what was posted and think about it yourself. If possible, investigate a little.

There is a website called doccool. It's kind of a weird name for anything. It used to be a "how to cheat" website and a few of the old forums are still there. It says "The original affair discussion forums that were shut down in February 2013. Gain insight in to the minds of those having affairs." It still has a treasure trove of how active cheaters actually think. Even if your wife is not actively cheating, it is a good idea to see what an active cheater looks like, acts like, how to behave, and how to manipulate.

Here is another place that is not there, but somewhere else online I found a long time ago, about "A woman ends her affair and attempts to repair her marriage" - this is how she feels about the other man:

I think of you everyday still. I have emotions all across the board. I want so badly what I can’t have. I think about you every single day. I put on my big girl face and tell myself it was a year and a half of amazing and that I need to show some respect and walk away from wonderful.

I miss your laugh.

I miss your smile.

I miss your telling me good morning.

I miss your emails.

I miss your hands.

I miss talking about nothing.

I miss talking about everything.

I miss hearing you are not happy in your marriage. (selfishly).

I miss seeing you.

I miss your kids.

I miss your charm.

I miss your encouragement.

I miss your understanding.

I miss feeling so small in your tall embrace.

I had a moment. A moment at school at a board meeting. I miss you. I can’t figure out how I am supposed to just forget that. I see you, hear you, feel you in everything! I hope you are doing well. I hope you think of me often. Love you, (always)

I think at some point you have to lay it on the line and tell your wife what is acceptable to you in the marriage and what is at stake. I don't believe you ever should give any ultimatums, but when you are ready you can tell her you are moving on until she shows she gets it and there is no guarantee you still will love her by the time she figures that out.

You have too many doubts to do anything right now. Get the voice-activated recorder for a week or so and see if you get more clarity, if she really is obtuse as you think or she has something going on. With the voice-activated recorder, of you find nothing, no news is good news. I also think her behavior will not stay the same, she will either start to help you heal or move further away from it.

wk55hn

Thanks I know you took a lot of time and effort to respond to that and I am taking what you said to heart so you didn't do all of that and waste your time.

Gary, you said this

"I wish she could see that it would not take much from her for me to forgive. I mean I basically was begging for it and it could have been so easy. She does not get it or probably thinks I will just get over it like I usually do with things."

To me, this is royal rugsweeping. If anything and the magnitude of your affair, it should take her moving mountains for you to forgive. She took advantage of you big time and you fell hook, line and sinker as you worked your ass off to raise her and HER KID but in the meantime, she beeded another man in your bed and you are so intent on wanting your old life back that you actually are starting to believe this affair isn't a big deal. Yet, you keep saying it is.

It either is or it's not. If it is, she's not showing you shit regarding how she has changed and your consequences you are showing ehr is not enough.

I agree with Wk55. WW sees you as weak because you stayed and allow her to begin to feel that she might get away with this affair for free.

If you don't listen to the rest of us, as you suggest you are but I don't see it, then at least listen to WK55. he IMO shows many signs of cheating on you still.

My question to you all along is what your gameplan is. You seem intent on scoring small points (like playing basketball), yet your strong stand on staying with her after what she did to you is yielding no results on your end.

So what are you doing ?

wk55hn,

What an excellent post. I wish there was a way to * some posts so that they save and can readily be accessed. What you say makes so much sense.

Western, I guess not enough. I been doing some things like cutting the friends I know were involved, telling her to get her own std test, taking her off committee events. But obviously from outsiders perspectives here I am not doing much.

I am going to try the voice recorder thing. Maybe I need to hear more for me to move on. Maybe I love my wife too much and not seeing what it is going on in front of my eyes.

I am trying.

Gary,

I think the point here is that Your doing these things. She is making no effort to make you feel safe.

My story was not that my fwh, continued to cheat. He was sorry but clueless. However, when asked to do something he did it. Our problem was his why was undiagnosised asbergers and family of orgin problems. It took a while to get that straightened out. I had to stay in the home but in the 180 for him to stay the course. When I did that he did what he needed to do.

My suggestion is more along the lines of saying to your wife. Look you cheated, your not the victim. Asking her these questions.

If I cheated with another woman and my friends knew and encouraged it would you want me to continue to be friends?

Once you sleep with someone else, you have been exposed to whoever they have slept with? Would you be comfortable having sex with me if I slept with some skank, who cheated before?

How did you have time for all this sexting, texting and cheating but not time to read a book?

How would you feel if I were involved with another woman and said oh let me have sex with you, you will feel better about it?

PricklePatch, great suggestion thanks. I never thought about turning it around on her to see it from my side. Funny too I been hit on like crazy at my second job at the warehouse by women but it never crossed my mind to do that. Although if I am being truthful here I been more receptive to take their compliments lately as it makes me feel good people see me like that.

Others here are right. My wife probably has never had to deal with that. She is used to people doing things for her. Well mostly. Her ex the father to her son was not a good guy. I think looking back and recalling what she said and such it was a relief to her that I treated her nice. Don't know if that plays into us now but even her folks said that.

I guess I assumed you were being more assertive with your wife. Tell her what you expect. I had to tell my wife what I wanted her to do. Very few cheaters can figure it out on their own. It's like the y forgot how to act when they did something wrong - to apologize and make amends. So if you ask for something and she comes back at you, stand your position. Bottom line, let her know she did this, you suffer enough over her actions, why should you put up with things aboutvthe affair that bothers you that she can help? You have taken a big bite of shit sandwich, why shouldn't she take one, too? She caused it, but she wants you to suffer through it when she can help, even if it is a sacrifice for her. Let her know that is your outlook. See if she loves enough to sacrifice for you over the damage she caused. Ending the affair is not a sacrifice.

You know, when I gave my wife an article, she dropped everything and started to read it on the spot. Regarding one particular Facebook friend, I told her I'd like her to block her and she asked why. I told her because she knew the other man, and I don't know the Facebook friend, and why should I put up with that, to wonder if they relay messages back and forth? She opened up Facebook and blocked her on the spot. Anger from her to me about a request I would make about the affair? Never. One other thing I would say is I have a certain belief system and attitude and I am kind of an open book and my wife knew me better than myself, so when I told her she should pack up her stuff and go to other man, she knew I meant it. I pampered my wife like you, too, and she took it for granted, like your wife did. Never badmouthed me though. So there are differences and there are similarities, with most of these threads.

If you pay attention you will see, even more on the wayward forum than here, that many wayward wives ended the cheating and the foot-dragging when they realized their husbands were truly ready to move on without them.

She is used to people doing things for her. Well mostly. Her ex the father to her son was not a good guy. I think looking back and recalling what she said and such it was a relief to her that I treated her nice. Don't know if that plays into us now but even her folks said that.

Gary

The above fits a pattern. Most young women find “bad boys” attractive and “nice guys” boring. This changes when they get older and value stability. She needed a nice guy to help her with her kid and she found you. The problem is that you are so nice that she took you for granted. She figured that you wouldn’t leave her even if she had an affair and she was right.