SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

She cheated when she didn't have a job...she will cheat while unemployed..if she wants.

You can't control her..or prevent her from cheating.

That's up to her.

But she might as well bring in some money, in the meantime.

Are you considering trying to R with her?

confused, yeah that makes sense that if someone wants to cheat you cant prevent them.

As for R, it was my hope and goal. I am just in limbo. Her son pulls me from just walking out I think at times and I have to admit part of us together outside of the cheating tugs at me. But she is really making it hard.

I see on here that women that cheated on their husbands just did so much to prove their loyalty to the marriage. I don't feel that at times. She tells me a million times she messed up, shes sorry that it will never happen again the works. But I sent her stuff to read and she didn't and than said she would but only because I mentioned it. I want her to do it. She pushed back when I cut her out of her school committee functions. She didn't see why I would not want that.

I think she just wants us to get back to us before this happened and I am struggling to get there. I still am angry about it and as much as I want to move forward I give myself pause. She is getting frustrated with me that I am being distant and we have zero intimacy right now. She keeps trying and I shut it down. So to her how can we try and be together when I push her away.

So we just seem to be on opposite sides on where we are.

She is getting frustrated with me that I am being distant and we have zero intimacy right now.

She has to finally get it through her mind that she has done nothing at all to heal you heal from what she has done, and that is because she thinks she didn't do anything bad or wrong.

She can't even read simple books, no, she can promise it will never happen again. But it will happen again, because she has no clue what she did was about the worst thing she could do.

She wants nothing more than to rug sweep this whole thing, and that is impossible.

It's impossible to get back to *before* this all happened. Even if you wanted to, I guarantee that all the emotions will creep up on you and you will boil with resentment.

After the couple years since DDay, for me, I am not back to *before*, in fact, I never want to go back to that place where I was insanely trusting and stupid. The NEW reality is much more realistic: I have a husband who cheated (s?)

Gary,

I have read your entire thread and I'm sorry for your pain and I'm sorry that you are here. I had a few thoughts:

- my sense is that your wife is not currently in the affair. I don't know for certain, of course, but there are a number of small things which lead me to believe this. The biggest one is her moping, her sadness, and her desperation for you to forgive her. Much more common among WW's who are still cheating is either a coldness or a compartmentalization of thoughts and behavior. It is absolutely possible she is still in affair, just my spidey senses saying that probably she isn't right now. Anyway, it sounds like you've got the VARs in place so you'll know soon enough what is happening.

- In spite of the above, at this point I'd rate your chances of full reconciliation at low. The reason is that your wife seems unwilling and/or unable to do the very hard work required to reconcile. She just isn't getting it. You are correct that the books are not read as a favor to you. They are read as a commitment to herself and the relationship. And girls night out? Is she high? She needs to dedicate her life right now to doing whatever it takes to make you feel safe and to rebuild the relationship and trust. Being embarrassed that she takes a land line call? Tough shit!! How does that compare to the embarrassment you felt at her having sex with another guy! wtf... I do believe that eventually you two need to return to a foundation of trust where you will not be checking up on her all the time and spending time with her friends is OK. But that is months to years away. Right now she needs to work on herself and the relationship. Not realizing this is a symptom of the selfishness and entitlement that got her to where she is right now.

- I could be totally imagining this, but did you say that your wife was born in another country? Maybe Eastern Europe? If so, that may make her reluctance to do introspection a little bit more understandable. It is a stereotype, but many cultures around the world find self-help, IC, and the like a bit strange, baffling, and even self-indulgent. Knowing this, however, doesn't really change anything. It might make you a bit more understanding but your default position should still be: "Yes, I get that it is hard. Tough shit. Get to work."

- I think her getting a job is absolutely the way to go. She needs to focus her energies on someone other than herself. She needs to get out there and wake the fuck up to the reality that she has got a good thing with you. She needs to get away from her yenta friends who are reflecting back her bullshit. Providing more opportunities to cheat is really not a consideration. Especially considering that in the short and medium term, she should be establishing VERY HIGH transparency with you. That means taking your calls when you say so, texting you with where she is at, no work parties, etc.

Finally, it is worth thinking about why she doesn't want to read the books and get a job. The easiest answer is that she is lazy. But I think this is a lazy explanation. I believe that nearly everyone in the world, if motivated will work hard. More likely is that she is afraid. Afraid of change, afraid of the unknown, afraid of looking deep within herself, afraid of judgment of others. While a sustained motivation to break through these fears must come from within, you can help a little by setting firm boundaries and consequences. Let me know if you need some examples of these.

Strength to you.

I think she just wants us to get back to us before this happened and I am struggling to get there.

You and her both are going to have to give up that notion, because there is no way back. That marriage you had before no longer exists to go back to. And the wife you remember from before no longer exists either. So, what you are looking at now is moving forward into a new marriage with a new woman you don't really know, but looks exactly like your old wife.

This is what you have to realize. The old wife was, at least in your mind she was, trustworthy, loyal, truthful, and had your back at all times. Now you are looking at this new woman and you already know she has the ability to lie to you, she is very capable of being disloyal and she may or may not have your back.

And one last thing. You can't R for the kids. You can only R if she is very remorseful and prepared to put 110% into your healing and the marriage. If she is not, you may hang around for the kid, but you will become miserable. My cousin tried that, he made it a little over a decade. By then his youngest was a JR in high school and he couldn't make it any longer. He divorced and is now engaged to a nurse.

Anyway, I'm not advising you to divorce or reconcile. You just need to be realistic in what to expect moving forward. Stay strong.

She does not work and stays at home. But it became a challenge and I took a part time second job working nights

my wife complained that I was gone a lot as the nights I worked I would come home around 530, have dinner and such and go in for the night shift.

I am apparently a neglectful husband as I am gone long hours for work.

This is why I thought she should get a job. You as a family need the money, and she thinks you work too long, while she is bored at home so gets into trouble screwing other bored males who also do not work.

She tells me a million times she messed up, shes sorry

Talk is cheap and easy. But what does she actually do?

she just wants us to get back to us before this happened

But you are not back to "us" before this happened, and you will never be there again. There are things in life that are "major events." Weddings, births, deaths. Everyone gets that. Going to prison, having a major medical trauma to disable you. Not everyone gets that. I put cheating right up there with those type of major events. There is a change in your mind, there always will be "before" and "after."

I feel sorry for the cheaters who want to make it better, and who truly don't want the loyal spouse to look at things differently. Think of your marriage as Christmas, and you just found out that there is not Santa Claus. You will never look back at Christmas again. Christmas may be even better, or it may be worse, I guess that depends on your outlook and how you handle it and some luck about how others handle it, too. But it will never be the same again, it always will be different.

Gary, there are a lot of cheaters who never truly get remorseful, and their spouses stay married for whatever reason, and things can be good again. You can accept that your wife is very selfish. If you are better off with her, than without her, you stay. You put that hurt on you, and she goes through her life the same. That is the story of many.

She claims that she will never do that again, but didn't she already claim during her wedding vows, to you between God and family and friends, that she would never cheat "forsaking all others" or something like that? Hasn't she lied before and after this whole episode of cheating? So what good is her whole "I will never do that again"?

I am glad she is not in contact with other man. I hope he is not even mentioned in any of these talks. I also hope that she is not talking about her marriage with her friends if she is not at least talking to you about it, too. It must be exhausting to try to listen all of those tapes if she talks all day ever day.

You say "she is frustrated" and she keeps trying" but she is not trying for the things you want, only for the things she wants. Yet the simple things you ask for, she does not want to do.

What is the opinion of all of her friends about it? Does she talk about it with any of them?

I always say that any reconciliation is part luck and part timing. Part of the luck is the other spouse - that the other spouse re-commits to the marriage and tries to fix the problems. One of the major problems is lack of trust. Another one is honesty. Another one is believing she actually loves you as opposed to just find you convenient because of finances, reputation, etc. The ACTION of having sex with another person, and badmouthing you over and over, has the result of you thinking she does not love you. That was the question in my mind when I caught my wife. What I did was to ask her to repudiate everything related to the affair, and told her that she could divorce and I will try to be fair. At the same time, I told her that there are some things that are unacceptable to me and I would not be able to stay with those things that are unacceptable. The luck part - or the part beyond my control - is that my wife did those things that I asked of her. I'm sorry that your wife does not do those things. There but for the grace of God, go I.

As long as she will not give you a disease for the rest of your life, I personally don't see what's wrong with having sex.

As for you, I would quit the second job, and tell her she can either cut back her spending or get a job. She told you that you were gone too much and she was right, she should have been helping out to the degree she could, and she didn't, and still doesn't. Quitting your second job is completely within your control.

In the aftermath of me finding out, in the months after, my wife would at times tell me things, and I would not believe her. I would not disbelieve her, either, but I would tell her I will have to look into that. I could see she would be surprised, because I trusted her so blindly for close to 20 years of marriage before this. I would tell her "I don't trust you" and "you lied and cheated until I found out, you'd probably still be lying now if I didn't catch you, so why should I believe you." She was very sad, but she understood. I did trust her again, but it took a long time. And I have not started believing in Santa Claus again.

[This message edited by wk55hn at 9:32 AM, April 18th (Monday)]

chifrudo, thanks for responding and I agree with what you are saying. My gut says she is not cheating now either but I didn't think she was before and look how dumb I was. I wanted to clarify my wife was born here and such so not sure if you have her confused with another poster.

I think she wants me to just trust that she wont do it again and lets get back to normal. Well my normal is not what it was anymore.

Hg65, spot on thanks. Yeah I am not that person anymore and wont be going forward. She has to know I gave her full trust and leeway to do whatever and it has hurt our marriage.

Listening to my voice recorders these women (I am not saying all women there are great ones I know that especially here just these ones around me) don't get it. I get so mad playing back what they all talk about all day. Complaining about this and that. There is one I now know has cheated but I don't know how to cut her out without blowing my cover I am listening. My wife didn't engage with her about it but in the group conversation when they were talking about going away she was referencing she needed to go out and get her "prrrr panties" that make her feel sexy. I gathered she steps out on her marriage on these outings.

Reconciliation is very hard, both parties need to want it bad and be willing to do the work. It will be difficult and painful for both. Right now I am not sure your WW is ready and willing.

She tells me a million times she messed up, shes sorry that it will never happen again the works. But I sent her stuff to read and she didn't and than said she would but only because I mentioned it. I want her to do it. She pushed back when I cut her out of her school committee functions. She didn't see why I would not want that.

Her words say she is "sorry" and that she will do whatever it takes. Her actions on the other hand say get over it already. Trust her actions. She not only doesn't understand the gravity of her actions, but what is more concerning is that she does not even want to put the effort in to gain that understanding. That is a huge problem. I've seen many WS's who had no idea what they should do after D Day, but at least they were willing to put the effort in to learn what to do. Effort is the key. Consider the effort she put into maintaining the A side by side with the effort she is putting into helping you heal. That should tell you all you need to know about where she is right now and what her priorities are. Real R is not possible in that type of situation, and until she puts the effort in, it will not be a viable option.

The next time she says she won't do it again, ask her why you should believe her now? I assume she already promised to forsake all other men when you got married, so what is different now? Ask her what she is doing to back her words up with action because you can no longer live on her words alone. She can't even get herself to read a couple of books. She needs a dose of reality. She needs to know sex will not fix this.

Part of the reason your story is so sad is the fact that you are/were willing to work on R. She doesn't understand the magnitude of that gift, and if she continues down this path, she will live to regret it. Or maybe she won't. Who knows or cares really. One thing I know is that when (not if) you reach your breaking point and walk away, you will be fine. Good luck OP.

trusted, sadly I think you are right. When I read all what the spouses that have cheated have done to work on the marriage I get frustrated. If my wife did even half of that I could move on better. But its like its on me to get us thru this. Someone on here that seems to have much experience with this PM me that I should separate for a bit. Be the only way I can get her to see what it will be like me gone. See if that changes things.

wk55hn, wow the Santa Claus thing is a great way of seeing it. I am glad to see that your road was hard but you are working on it and things are better. I am torn on the sex. I want to badly trust me. But I feel it will make it harder for me to stay form on other things and I think for her it will signal all is fine with us. But yes that has been very hard and I battle myself everyday on what to do with it.

To respond back to you no she does not talk about the other guy at all since I been recording but she does talk about us. They all talk about their marriages. She paints that she was so stupid and is sorry and that she wants us to be good again. She is lost on what to do since I am so cold and distant. Her friends tell her to give it time that I am a good guy I will forgive and not leave her and her son, I am too honorable to do that. They tell her to do things for me to show. I don't want that what they are telling her. To me that is window dressing. But that is how their mind works it seems.

Thanks jigga for your words. Yeah that is what is so frustrating I am so willing to work on it. A lot of guys with good reason would not even give her the chance I am giving her.

I think she just wants us to get back to us before this happened and I am struggling to get there. I still am angry about it and as much as I want to move forward I give myself pause. She is getting frustrated with me that I am being distant and we have zero intimacy right now. She keeps trying and I shut it down. So to her how can we try and be together when I push her away.

Gary1995

She has to finally get it through her mind that she has done nothing at all to heal you heal from what she has done, and that is because she thinks she didn't do anything bad or wrong.

craig2001

To your wife sex just isn’t that big of a deal. That’s true of many women, the relationship is what they value. If they never tell their OM that they love him then they are being faithful in what’s important to them. They know that having sex with the OM is wrong but they don’t get it at a gut level like most men do.

My bet is that she has always used sex to get her way. From her point of view she gave the OM sex which wasn’t that big of a deal because she never intended to leave you. Now she wants to use sex to smooth this over and you will not let her.

There is an old saying: “If all you have is a hammer then all the world is a nail.” You will not let her use her hammer. She doesn't like reading. Why should she read when she has this great hammer that's always worked before?

[This message edited by Graywolf at 10:12 AM, April 18th (Monday)]

Her friends tell her to give it time that I am a good guy I will forgive and not leave her and her son, I am too honorable to do that.

You can use this without giving up your "source."

Next conversation you say something to the effect:

" I have been faithful and loyal to you since day 1. I am an honorable husband/father/man. You cheated on your own, I had NO hand in this. I do not accept any part of your actions. I still remain honorable/loyal and you can't even be bothered to read a book! This is ALL ON YOU. From this day forward, I will put no more effort into this. EVERYTHING will reflect on your efforts. I will not rug-sweep, minimize, or be a part in down-playing your affair. YOU do what you think is necessary if roles were reversed. Do not say the words 'I'm Sorry' anymore. I don't want to hear them. ACTIONS ONLY."

Drop the mic... walk off the stage.

Hg65, damn that was awesome to read thanks. That sounds like something need to do. This way I don't have to lose that I have been listening to her during the day. I hate that I have to do this in a marriage but it keeps me sane knowing I know for sure what is going on with her.

Gary, I sent you a PM.

Okay, here is some advice from someone who has been married longer than you have been alive. I see a lack of man/wife communication in your marriage, especially now. How about you sit down with her and tell her EXACTLY what you want from her. You seem to have no problem writing out what you want on this thread. Telling everyone here is not getting the message across to your wife. Everyone is not wired the same. This thing of "I hope she figures it out herself" is not going to work with her. In her world you are going to have to tell her what you want from her. Maybe she doesn't view sex the way a man does and she is using what (sex) she believes will fix you and her. To her, sex with you is an emotional experience. It wasn't with the POS. It appears that her conversations with her friends shows she loves you and is sorry for the stupid decision she made. If you love this woman then it is time to tell her what you want, what you are willing to give/do and what you are not willing to concede to. Then you need to find out what she wants and what she is willing to give/do to make the marriage work. It's called talking to each other. Believe me when I say nothing, and I mean NOTHING, is going to get accomplished or settled until you both put EVERYTHING out on the table where you can see it all and start the rebuilding process. Otherwise it is a waste of time and you need to part company. Life is something that should be enjoyed with the person you love. If it's not then you need to get a new life. I enjoy my life with the woman I love so I know honest face to face husband/wife communication works. I wish you well.

anoldlion, I know I have talked to her, maybe not in the best way but I have. The thing is I don't want to force feed her what I need to get over this. To me that is just giving her the playbook on what to do and all is good. I want her to do some things on her own. PROVE to me that we can go forward. Its the only way I can know for sure its for real and not just giving me what I want to get back.

True I might not be going about it the best way here. I am trying to do what most here have said to. I have started to get back to doing things on my own, got voice recorders in the house and her car, cut out a friend that helped her with the other guy, got her off some of her school functions that could have her see him, contacted the guys wife that my wife slept with. I am doing some things.

Granted I might still be messing up with the advice given here. I don't want to waste peoples time that are trying to help. But I am also confused too. My life is so much different than it was couple months ago I am trying to deal with it best I can.

Gary -

What is it that you want? And the answer can't be for things to be the way they were... that simply is not possible. You say you are doing some of the things... Here is the deal, getting out of infidelity is not a part time, partial effort endeavor. You have to take the responsibility for getting yourself out of this situation.

Your story is really heartbreaking. Your wife has used and abused you, and continues to do so. You have basically got the same advice from most of the folks here and we are all arriving at the same conclusion.

Your wife is not currently a candidate for reconciliation. Reconciliation takes two fully involved and fully committed people. She is just not willing to do anything to fix this.

Please... Take charge of your situation. You may still be able to reconcile if that is what you want but I doubt it will happen until you file for divorce, detach emotionally and financially and expose the infidelity. So far there have been few consequences on your wife and there won't be until you make it happen.

The thing is I don't want to force feed her what I need to get over this. To me that is just giving her the playbook on what to do and all is good.

Gray

I totally agree. It’s like giving her a checklist. She halfheartedly checks them all off and then you have to take her back. It’s like a school assignment.

The problem for her is that if she can’t use sex then she has no idea what to do.