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Is she actually doing anything to save the marriage , it just sounds like she is having pity parties on the phone with her friends .You need to stop financing her lifestyle ,if she wants money its time she started earning it by working .Its time you realise you really deserve someone who will treat you better and the kid cant save this marriage. I might have missed it but did you find out how long the affair was going on .

Gary,

You don't want to force feed her?! Screw that.

Listen buddy, you write up a specific list of all the things she will have to do to get a chance at WINNING YOU BACK!!

Gary, you are the prize and she has to fight for a chance!

That's right. You've been father to the boy that wasn't yours. You are the bread-winner who has busted his ass all these years while she lays around playing PTA, facebook and screwing other guys in your house. Time to get pissed and put her ass on notice.

If she balks, her other option is divorce papers. You are in a position of power and you don't even know it.

All the best & good luck.

Thanks to all again for still helping me. Even though I might not be doing everything right but I do listen to what is being said here.

I know it's frustrated to come here and read I am not doing this or not. It's frustrated to live this. I have been talking to some very helpful people here that were on the side of getting back and even they were saying they didn't see it anymore. I guess some of that hit me.

I couldn't sleep last night so I went out to the living room and was watching tv. She got up to pee and heard the tv on and came out to the living room. She asked me again for the 1000th time if I would come to bed with her. I kind of snapped. I was like do you not effing get it. Do you not see the damage done here? I have not gotten hardly anything from you to move forward except some tears and offers for sex. In what world do you think that will fix everything?

I asked her to say out loud all the things I do for her and her son. All that I do for the marriage. From everything to working two jobs to cooking the whole nine. Then I asked her to list the things she does for me. Then I asked her to say out loud to me what she has done to help me and prove herself for our marriage.

I will admit it did make me feel good to see her face and admit all I do and how little she does. She cried as expected telling me she wants nothing more to get back together, she made a huge mistake, she doesn't know what to do, that she feels that I am so distant that its hard for her to know how to prove it. That she didn't know that she was not showing appreciation of me in the marriage. She went on to say she is needy and selfish that is how she is and she doesn't try to be. That she is lucky I treat her the way I do and she thought I was happy to do it. That her need for attention and constant compliments took over for her with the other guy. That she got addicted to it. Yes I do that for her too but since I am working and such I couldn't give that to her 24/7 like he was since he too was not working. She said it was like a drug listening to him compliment her all day. She said it was that and not the sex. That was not what drove her but it did happen when it could.

I just said I need action and not words from her. That I don't know if what she did I can get past now that everyday its harder for me to accept it. I said I might leave for a bit so I can think on what to do next. She lost it. Begging not to leave her and her son. But as a poster here has told me, leave for a bit and maker her see all that I do. It was exhausting to say the least.

I am anxious to see what is said today after this talk when she talks to her friends today.

It must've been therapeutic to get that all off your chest. Maybe this is her "rock bottom" and things will turn.

Good luck!

I was like do you not effing get it. Do you not see the damage done here? I have not gotten hardly anything from you to move forward except some tears and offers for sex. In what world do you think that will fix everything?

If she would just read one of the things you asked her to read, just maybe she would understand the extreme damage she caused, how long it takes to even begin to get over this and what she needs to do....then she would get it.

She said it was like a drug listening to him compliment her all day. She said it was that and not the sex. That was not what drove her but it did happen when it could.

That might be the honest thing she has told you, and the hardest to understand. From reading what many other WWs have written on here and what I heard, this is pretty common.

It is hard to believe, and many times I wonder if I believe that exact same thing from my WW.

So, she tells you this, but how can she make sure it never happens again. The only way you can be partially sure would be if she completely understood the why she felt the need to do this.

And her need to do this sure as hell had nothing to do with you working. I heard the initial excuse also of I was always busy, and then that changed to it was all her fault. When my fww was actually able to be honest with herself about history, she realized I was there a hell of a lot more then her original rewritten history had told her.

Gary - you are in a tough situation and doing fine. Sounds like there may have been good interaction last night BUT here are a few things to remember....

* Talk is cheap, actions not words

* You need to continue with filing for divorce

* If she shows true remorse and work then stop the d

* Communicate clearly the minimum musts for reconciliation

* She needs to stop ALL extra curricular and PTA stuff

* Seperate finances, no joint accounts

* She needs to get a job and start contributing

* She need to pay her half of household expenses

* You live in New Jersey - look into a post nup if you reconcile

Look reconciliation is always possible IF the wayward is all in. So far she has not been. Her speech last night is nice but still meaningless until backed up by action.

She has explicitly told you that she likes the lifestyle you provide her and that was the only thing that was lacking in her OM was the financial security. Do. It be her walking talking ATM machine.

You can do this and you will either emerge with an empathetic and changed wayward wife or you will get yourself out of a situation you do not deserve to be in.

Keep strong and good luck!

Craig I hear you man on being surprised it was more emotional than sexual but that fits with her being needy and such. He fed that hunger in her. And it makes sense as a lot of their sexual encounters were not successful due to his ED (the texts I read do confirm this although not that it makes me feel better) but till last night I was dumbfounded why she was having an affair with a guy that struggled to perform sexually.

Sananman, I think you gave a great list and I will take a hard look at these thanks. The only thing I am hesitant on is the shutting off the accounts on her. She doesn't work and I pay all the bills and such so that would leave her with no income at all. I don't want to do that as I have her son to think about. As for a job she has said she was looking into working at that studio but others here said her working would be bad more options to cheat. So I am torn on what to do there.

Gary,

First of all you really need to think what do you wnt, R or D. If you decide to R then you need to discover if you can make it, some people can other can not, as seems is your case so far.

Does she have any protection network, family, parents, etc, that can support her in case you decide to walk away?

Maybe this is against what other have being telling; this is just my opinion:

Maybe she just doesn’t know how to help you, maybe she needs some directions. I believe she has taken you for granted and now doesn’t know how to react as you did everything for her before, I believe she is affair of 2 things, that everything is going to change and is starting to fear that you may actually leave her.

IMO you should develop a plan, something like this.

1.- She needs to find a job ASAP, why? because you can drop your second job and if you D she will have means to survive and less alimony you will pay. She needs a real job, not that 3 day thing, part time will make it.

2.- She needs to share house work 50%-50% no excuse. This way you will have more time to yourself and the son also she will appreciate all you did for her and realize what she thrown away.

3.- You need to go away a few days, just to let her do all things in home. Left some money, just for the basics, you don’t want to starve them, but there is not need for her to use your money to do Volumtering and money to fun things while she is not working.

4.- All her friends that knew, not just the one that supported her in the Affair, needs to be gone like yesterday. If her parents or any other relative knew they must be gone as well. This is not to punish her, this is for her to understand the consequences of her actions, keeping that relations are emasculating you.

5.- Voluntering is gone, at least for the near future. No matter if she is in the middle of something. This must be over.

6.- IDK if she already did this but she needs to take a STD test and also a polly test. This way she knows how deep she risked not just her life, but your. Also the poly is for her to understand that a lot of work will be needed to build back your trust.

Look, I know that some of these points are not fair, but all of them are meant to open her eyes of what she has taken for granted and thrown away, as well to protect you. Also what she has done, the Affair and after Dday, are less than fair.

She needs a lot to learn and undertand.

Good luck

She needs to get a job regardless. If she wants to cheat, nothing you say or do will stop that. However, she needs to work if for no other reason than if you get a divorce, you'll still get stuck paying for her to maintain her lifestyle of doing nothing. And, by proxy, you'll probably be supporting OM since he is an out of work loser. Fuck that. Let her start earning her keep. Why should you finance unicorn land?

Mrhealed, I want to make my marriage work. I will exhaust all options before I want to leave. Now granted that might not happen and I will have to divorce but I want to give it a shot. I believe she does too but as to if she will do what it takes and whatnot that is another story.

Yes she has friends and a good family. Her family knows she is sort of a princess hence them joking about it thru the years so in the ends I am sure she would move back in there if need be. If I divorce I wouldn't abandon my duties even after what she did its not in my nature to do that. Especially her son. I am pretty decent in the handy department, years ago me and a friend bought a beat up place down the shore for peanuts. He put up the financing I did most of the labor. Really turned around the house and it sold for a good bit years later. I put some of that money in her sons name for later so he would be taken care of. I feel good about that so right now he would have about 250k for himself off the investment.

As for the housework I hear you. But let me say some of that is my fault. She is messy to begin with again her family would joke how much of a pig sty her room would be and how messy. I am big on cleaning and such. So I just did it. At the time I didn't think it was something you said its the wife job to do this or that. I mean the girl didn't know how to properly do laundry when I dated her. But I see your point for her to improve I need her to get it together.

As far as the friends I cut off the one I know was supporting the affair. I been gathering intel on the voice recorders on who else she is dealing with. I don't want to blow that I know stuff yet but I am keeping tabs.

Yes we did STD testing. All clear on both accounts.

I hear you guys on the job thing. But I get mixed things from everyone here. Some say make her get out there and work and some say get your marriage fixed first before you have her with other men. I get confused.

In your case I really think insisting on full time work and her paying for 1/2 the house expenses is important. You also need the post nup. She explicitly told you that she is in it for the lifestyle you provide. You need to take that out of the equation.

As far as the opportunities to cheat argument for her working, she will do that no matter what if she wants to. The difference is that you do not get left holding the financial bag if she does it again.

Given her lack of actual action, she still is not a very good candidate for reconciliation. So far you still only have words and a pity party from her.

If you decide not to file now, get a post nup ASAP. Protect yourself and your future.

Believe me - you can do this. One way or the other she will either do the hard work to fix what she broke, or you she will show you her true colors as an unremorseful wayward.

Hang in there!

Some say make her get out there and work and some say get your marriage fixed first before you have her with other men. I get confused.

She should already be in IC, in order to actually find out why she did what she did, and more importantly, how she intends to make sure it never happens again.

It is very easy for her to say she will never do it again, but when all the smoke clears, she doesn't really know how she will feel the next time some guy comes on to her. And OH YES, there will be other guys coming on to her, those types of guys are everywhere.

So her getting a job will open up a whole new arena of guys to her, by that time, she had better have her issues fixed.

As for working, she obviously had too much time on her hands and maybe working will teach her some responsibility instead of waiting for outside validation all of the time. Working could build her self esteem so she doesnt need the outside validation any longer.

There is an old saying: “Men give attention for sex and women give sex for attention.” That’s the deal she and the OM had.

I asked her to say out loud all the things I do for her and her son. All that I do for the marriage. From everything to working two jobs to cooking the whole nine. Then I asked her to list the things she does for me. Then I asked her to say out loud to me what she has done to help me and prove herself for our marriage.

I will admit it did make me feel good to see her face and admit all I do and how little she does. She cried as expected telling me she wants nothing more to get back together, she made a huge mistake, she doesn't know what to do, that she feels that I am so distant that its hard for her to know how to prove it. That she didn't know that she was not showing appreciation of me in the marriage. She went on to say she is needy and selfish that is how she is and she doesn't try to be.

Gary

You may not be rich but you’re her sugar daddy. No wonder she wants to keep you.

That she is lucky I treat her the way I do and she thought I was happy to do it.

Gary

That’s because you never complained like she would have. Therefore you must have been happy doing all the things you do.

Does she know that you gave her kid a quarter of a million?

I have to say that I don't understand the advice to not have your wife work. We already know that staying home isn't going to keep her from cheating..been there done that...you are slowing finding out what she does all day and it's not things that help you or your marriage out in the least. Getting a job would be the best thing for her and you. You are working 2 jobs... her complaint was you weren't home much... if she worked maybe you could be home more. Yes she might meet someone else but if she is going to cheat again, she's going to do it...

You don't say how old you are. Did you ever consider having kids of your own? Adoption hers?

Graywolf, I thank you for your honesty. It was tough to read I am her sugar daddy. I don't view myself that I am. I know it looks like that now with that that happened but to me I was just a guy providing for his family like I am sure most guys on here do.

True I never complained. I know looking at it now it seems bad and I am at fault for some of her behavior being spoiled and enabled. I did play a part in that and I own it. But at the time I didn't mind doing the extra or whatever to have a happy marriage and wife. Yes now it looks bad I did that but all these years I wasn't dealing with an affair that happened.

As for her knowing the money for her son, she knows I put money away for him alone but she doesn't know the logistics. I handle all the finances. Our accounts are joined, her credit cards bill to me, I pay all the bills. I don't think she knows what we owe or what this or that cost. I know that as years ago she asked if we could get a beach house. When I told her that was crazy off our budget she didn't grasp it. I couldn't even tell you if she knows what her expenses are she does.

The money I put aside for her son is not straight 250 cash. Some of that is tied up in a college fund and various bonds and such. When I had to take my pay cut with my job due to the merger she like most was scared. I told her things would be changing to a degree and some stuff had to change like shopping multiple days a week with her friends and the $100 wine and salad lunches they go to.

Freeme, I am 41. She is little younger than me. We tried to have kids there was complications and misscarriages and understandably that impacted her and upset. I didn't want to keep putting her thru all that so we took that off the table.

As for the housework I hear you. But let me say some of that is my fault. She is messy to begin with again her family would joke how much of a pig sty her room would be and how messy. I am big on cleaning and such. So I just did it. At the time I didn't think it was something you said its the wife job to do this or that. I mean the girl didn't know how to properly do laundry when I dated her. But I see your point for her to improve I need her to get it together.

I hear you, she didn't have to do anything, her parents did it all, so she didn't do it. And then she got married to you and didn't think to start doing that, either. That's it in a nutshell, she doesn't think about other people. It doesn't occur to her, "gee, I should probably learn how to do laundry, my husband works two jobs, he likes things clean, I appreciate what he does for me, so I should probably do some stuff that he likes." Would never occur to her. I've seen it before.

She went on to say she is needy and selfish that is how she is and she doesn't try to be. That she is lucky I treat her the way I do and she thought I was happy to do it

I had a serious relationship, a whole lot about this young woman I really liked, even loved. But her faults, she would throw out "I am selfish and needy, everybody knows that about me, ask my parents, they know, it is part of me. Don't you love me for how I am?" Hmmm.? A couple years. We broke up, no contact after that for a long while. Then I get a call, she has a boyfriend, they are fighting about something or other, and she asks me, can I talk to him about her, let him know that that is how she is, selfish, it's just who she is." I can't make this shit up. And she really was a completely normal person if you talked to her or dealt with her, it was only in a romantic relationship where she had a few "quirks." In my opinion, not marriage material. Sorry.

double post

[This message edited by Freeme at 3:55 PM, April 20th (Wednesday)]

Freeme, I saw you asked again a question. I posted it in an earlier response but it was kind of mixed in. I didn't want you to think I ignored your question. Here was my response.

Freeme, I am 41. She is little younger than me. We tried to have kids there was complications and misscarriages and understandably that impacted her and upset. I didn't want to keep putting her thru all that so we took that off the table.

Gary, Your situation makes me sad, very very sad. You seem to be such a fine man. Anyone would be lucky to have you. But your WW did not and does not appreciate you. Still. You should not be working two jobs. She should work one full-time and you should work one full-time. If she is going to cheat, she will cheat whether she is working or not. Her working will not give her access to any more men than she has now. When you are only working one job, you will have time and energy to give her the attention she wants. It is cause and effect. You work, she works, then she gets more attention.

Her having a job solves another problem. Her whole life, someone else has taken care of her. If you do end up in D, this job gives her a source of income.

A third benefit, is that if she is a good employee, she will get a lot of positive feedback. This is something that feeds her need for attention. It will show her value in herself.

A fourth benefit of her working, is you will not have the two-job income used when calculating monies owed if you should later divorce. And her income will offset some of your income.

Fifth, a job would help keep her from being bored. Boredom is often cited as a cause of an A.

Sixth, you will have some extra money to catch up on debts. or build a nestegg in case of another layoff. Or even extra money to get her extra little presents.

I cannot think of any negative to your WW getting a job. Please consider it.

P.S. Even after your amazing discussion the other night, she still did not get it at all, IMO.

Yes her working seems to give lots of different opinions here. I think all are valid but it seems there is a mix of make her get a job to don't as she will cheat again for whatever. Its a mindscrew.

The thing is she said she would work for me if it helps. But and I know this sounds bad she likes not working so its not like she is clamoring for fulfillment in her life from working. Some people are wired like that I guess.

I think I am going to split it down the middle. Have her work at the karate studio could days a week and have her earn some money. Take if from there.