SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Thanks for making me laugh I needed that about the women with me.

Hey man. No problem. Dealing with infidelity is terrible slog. I always said "At least I still have my sense of humor" through it.

I agree with a couple posters about your wife not having the first clue of how to fix this. Proof of that is that she still depends on you to calm her down. She can't self-sooth (something most of us get a handle on pretty early in life).

She needs you protect her from herself. Kinda makes her a perfect candidate for some gentle leading, hand holding, safe-path-back-to-your-marriage stuff.

Except....

She sure had her Big Girl Britches on the day she had another man in your bed. She wasn't calling you up at work to protect her from herself when she felt like it was a good idea mess around with ole tiny floppy winkey. She jumped right in with both feet.

That was the final straw for me and ex-Mrs. SquirrelFace. If she could show the initiative to plan and execute the affair, but didn't have that same stick-to-it-iveness to fix it? Why do I need to go put on my Mr. Fix-It pants? She can go put back on those same Big Girl Britches, since I know she has 'em.

Um..yeah...I'm not sure it's necessary...But I feel the need to defend myself here..

I didn't use my son to extort money from my ex. I never used that child. I was mature enough to recognize, that, while our relationship was over, he and my son had formed a real bond. He wanted visitation. He wanted to give me cs for him. I never,not once, asked. Or made him feel bad if he didn't have it. I also have never called him anything other than "your dad" when speaking to my son about him.

Not all divorces are ugly. And not all women use ex-stepfathers to get money. There are just some genuinely great men in this world, and my ex happens to be one of them. We just weren't right for each other.

Sorry for the t/j.

confused615, I hope you didn't feel the need to defend yourself off something I said. My head is a messy place these days and if my wording made it seem that way I am sorry. I meant to say that I don't think my wife will be as kind and understanding as you were to your ex. I worry that she will use him to get at me and not do what you did.

I think what you did and him in return was very cool.

I wanted to also say the advice here has been great. I know it seems I don't take it but I do, I kind or take it in and think on it.

I think right now I am a combination of both sides that post in here. It is true I am probably not fully committed deep down to divorce. There is something still telling me it can be fixed. But there is also a part of me that says too much damage has been done. That my numbness feelings for her is there for a reason. Maybe we both would be happier and better off alone or not together anymore.

Too many people here been thru so much for me to not see there is not much hope but maybe. I want to give it one shot so I can rest easier. Divorce is a huge thing, I don't want to be at table thinking there was some things that could have been done.

I went thru my posts here with responses and made kind of a cheat sheet of what I want to have done or say. I want to meet with her and lay it out. She doesn't see it or doesn't want to do it than what else is there to say. I got my answer.

I want to roll out the following;

I want to know is there anyone that is not helpful in her group to our marriage. That is also cheating or supports it. I don't want to blow my VAR but see if she will admit it.

I want to know has she or anyone in her group updated her on the other guy

Will she or explain why she wont read the stuff I asked her to

What is her thoughts and status on working

What is her view of what she does all day and her view on what I do all day

Will she take a poly. Now I don't think I would even go this route but someone here has PM to just threaten it and her reaction will tell me what I need to know

What is her thought or plan for me to really trust her fully again

I have some more but that is what I have for now, thanks to all for the help.

Confused. What your X did gor your son wasa gracious and loving thing. Its awesomethey kept their bomd and Gary can as well. I certainly hope you did not think anythong I said was in reference to you. It was not.

She has proven herself to be lazy and likes to spend Garys money. She fritters away her days and shops a lot from what he has said. I would be sure she coldnt access any funds intended for the boy. He needs clothes Gary buys them. He needs car insurance Gary pays it. NOT HER.

Gary - You have a good list. I would simply suggest the following:

1. Start with trust. It has been destroyed, somehow it has to be rebuilt. Make sure you are satisfied that she understands this and supports it.

2. The books - you need to tell her these books represent the wisdom of people who have gone through this AND have reconciled, and gone on to be happy. It isn't about punishing anyone, its about building a mutually rewarding relationship.

I would tell you you are making this up as you go, but those books are important to you because they give you HOPE.

3. I would require a timeline. I would make her commit to writing it.

4. I would VERY much not back off the Poly. I can think of a dozen cases easily where they were important.

5. I would return to trust.

I would close by saying the only reason you are having this conversation is that you have some flicker of hope left in you, but that flicker is just about out.

FWIW.

You are doing well.

The people here will support you in whatever you decide.

PS: Confused - this might be the best compliment I have ever heard a WS be given here:

"There are just some genuinely great men in this world, and my ex happens to be one of them"

[This message edited by redsox13 at 5:56 PM, April 27th (Wednesday)]

Gary - very respectfully...

Don't ask what she thinks and wants, tell here what you require. Don't ask if there are toxic friends, tell her toxic friend is done. Don't ask her how she feels about working, tell her one of your requirements for reconciliation is to work enough to contribute her half of the household expenses. Don't ask her why she won't read the material, demand it as a condition of not leaving.

I am a fan of trying reconciliation and I am 3+ years into reconciling with my fww. I am also a huge fan of going scorched earth on waywards. They either get out of la la land very fast and work hard to fix things; or they show their true selfish colors....

Frankly I don't see reconciliation working for you for two reasons... 1) it is clear that your wife is not wiling to do ANY work; 2) you are not willing to demand you get treated with the respect you deserve.

Reconciliation is impossible under these circumstances and you are setting yourself up for years of additional pain and frustration while you work yourself to death to bankroll a lifestyle for someone who has no appreciation for you.

I want to know is there anyone that is not helpful in her group to our marriage. That is also cheating or supports it. I don't want to blow my VAR but see if she will admit it.

I want to know has she or anyone in her group updated her on the other guy

Will she or explain why she wont read the stuff I asked her to

What is her thoughts and status on working

What is her view of what she does all day and her view on what I do all day

Will she take a poly. Now I don't think I would even go this route but someone here has PM to just threaten it and her reaction will tell me what I need to know

What is her thought or plan for me to really trust her fully again

These are good items to want to resolve. One thing though -

All of you statements are passive: What is she going to do, what does she want, etc.

I think that by phrasing things this way you will get wishy washy answers and half efforts from her. You are giving her the power to dictate the terms of what she will do for R. I guarantee you, she will set low-bar terms, and then revise them (to suit her needs) in the future.

I would suggest, rather, that you put your list more in "demand" form (they don't necessarily need to be demands, but expectations of her actions/behavior):

NC with all of your friends who have supported or encouraged your affair. I want a listing of them.

If she balks at any of them, or just refuses, then you know how committed she is to R.

ETA: Sananman posted as I was typing. He's spot on.

[This message edited by WornDown at 6:08 PM, April 27th (Wednesday)]

Mr.Gary,

If your going to go down this route, you will require the "Take Charge" attitude.

She obviously is to selfish to do this her self... so if you're going this route, you've gotta be the strong one. It can work, believe me. It can. But you have to take responsibility now for being the rock

You asked her once b4 why did she not read the book right? No that didn't work. It's do this because this is what I need or maybe you really didn't mean when you said by "anything"

Example. " I asked you tobread the book. You obviously don't think it's important enough to do so. I'm going to ask one more time. Read the book. Let's talk about it at night." If Not. "ALRIGHT THEN. Thanks for showing me how much you care"

One last thing. Please take it step by step fight for each step don't dump. Dumping is selfish. Focus on one spot them go for that spot.

Or at least that helps me simplify my issues.... makes handling things easier.

Glad your taking responsibility for yourself :)

Praying for you.

IMO unless she does a 180 from where she is now you are headed for a false R.

One person can't work on a marriage. But it's your life.

I want to know is there anyone that is not helpful in her group to our marriage. That is also cheating or supports it. I don't want to blow my VAR but see if she will admit it.

No. They just wonder why you are pushing me away rather than come back into the marriage.

I want to know has she or anyone in her group updated her on the other guy

No, but he is a parent, sometimes they see him.

Will she or explain why she wont read the stuff I asked her to

I don't see the point, I already know I made a mistake and I won't ever do it again. It is just a punishment.

What is her thoughts and status on working

That has nothing to do with the affair and you know I didn't work when you married me, it is just a punishment.

What is her view of what she does all day and her view on what I do all day

We both work in our own separate ways, equal but separate. I stay up to date with my son's school's and I am involved in a lot of school committees. I stay in touch with our friends and families. Your work ends when you punch out, my work never ends.

Will she take a poly. Now I don't think I would even go this route but someone here has PM to just threaten it and her reaction will tell me what I need to know

You already know the truth, that is just to punish me, why can't you just start loving me again or at least have sex with me so I can try.

What is her thought or plan for me to really trust her fully again

I already told you I was sorry, over and over, what more do you want?

Now what?

Sananman is right. Don't hask her how she feels about that stuff. You tell her what the requirements will be! Put your foot down and do it firmly!

Look, this R thing has to be all in or not at all. It can't be half-assed. She has to step up and commit to your demands!

Option 1 is "all in", and option 2 is "marriage ends"

Make it simple. It requires a commitment.

Sounds fine. The first thing your wife needs to do before anything positive can happen, is she has to fully realize what she has done, the huge damage she has caused and that there is no going back to the way it was before. The sooner she realizes this, the better.

She seems to think having sex with some married guy is no big deal, and she has several friends that are backing her up.

She needs to read the books and that pdf you have mentioned. She doesn't want to read those books, because they will tell her what she does not want to hear or admit.

I dont know if you need a polygraph. Do you feel you have the entire truth and or do you think there were other affairs?

Wife, I said I would take care of you forever, but only if you loved me, and I have some serious doubts. If you loved me, why would you have sex with another man in my house in my bed? You had to deceive me many times and lie when I found out. During the cheating, you said that I was a terrible husband and you told a lot of other people about it, including the other man. How should I believe you now that you are sincere, and why should I not believe before you were sincere and now you are just faking? The cheating would still be going on now if I never found it out on my own. So how can I believe you say you love me when I think maybe you need me only for lack of better options?

I want you to take some actions, not just words, that would show me you love me. I want you to repudiate all things related to the affair. Whenever I think about the things related to the affair, it causes me extreme pain and mental anguish.

The bed where you had sex with him causes me anguish. I want you to buy a new one with your own money. The same with the couches and chairs you used.

The house itself causes me anguish. It is tainted to me and I want to move into another house. We will sell this home and buy another, but I want you to buy the moving expenses with your own money.

You told everyone that I was never home for you, but I was working for money for you and your lifestyle. I will never be there without you again, but we still need the money. Therefore, I want you to take up the slack, either get a job or cut back your expenses. The whole situation of you sitting home all day while I work makes me remind of the cheating. It causes me mental anguish.

The books and articles I asked you for would tell you how I feel. Do you not care about how I feel? Do you not love me enough to read a couple of articles or books? This makes me believe that you do not actually love me, the same way you had sex with another man, lied to me during and after, and badmouthed everyone about me. Why should I believe different when all you would do is give me lip service?

I told her that I had to make up the loss income as she didn't want that to change either

nightstands I was putting something away on her side when I saw a 2 pack of Viagra in there.

I learned thru the texts that I am apparently a neglectful husband as I am gone long hours

I make time for date nights for us, get a neighbor or friend to babysit and just have time for us.

She says we never talk or she doesn't get anything special from me.

I send her flowers every other Wed to her, still buy her things just for her.

She says she feels alone taking care of the house.

You work two jobs, shouldn't she be taking care of the house?

I still cook, take out trash, and on weekends not working I do yardwork and the house cleaning to give her a break.

Does she ever come at work to give you a break?

I confronted her about it and she denied

She came clean said she is lonely and yes i do those things but he is around and there to listen all day or whenever. That when she wants to talk about something i am not there at the moment.

What does sex in your house in your bed have to do with not able to talk to you?

My personal favorite:

the Viagra is that he needs it to help as he is stressed too from doing all the work at home for his kids and household.

she cant explain it.

My problem is getting the image and thoughts of that guy in my bed, in my house, on the phone talking about my marriage is bothering me.

I feel stupid in front of the people in town as obviously some know.

the betrayal is hard to forget.

Why don't you just print out your original post and show it to her?

[This message edited by wk55hn at 8:40 PM, April 27th (Wednesday)]

Gary, I've been following your post and understand where you're coming from and just want to make an observation.

Your wife is a princess and has led a privileged life with you taking up the slack by working 2 jobs, keeping the house clean, etc. You are expecting her to overcome her long time training and become more of a wife, in other words, a drastic change that she is willing to make for you to show how sorry she is and how badly she wants to reconcile.

She doesn't understand why things can't just go back to the way they were before, pre affair when you loved her. Have you explained to her that you did all those things for because she was a loving wife and that now you have lost all respect for her and are no longer willing to accommodate her princess lifestyle. She is still deep in the fog, not realizing how badly she's hurt you and doesn't realize she's fighting for her life (marriage).

You might try giving her the list of things she must change in order for you to stay in black and white. Agree or your gone, no compromising.

First off I do want to say thanks to all that taken time to help me and my marriage. I do appreciate it I am sorry I wasted your all time. I should probably stop wasting the efforts here and shut this thread down. There is no need. I am done and my marriage is done. Apologies in advance I might not have a well thought out post here I am working on no sleep.

Last night was a disaster just awful. Like an idiot I have been for god knows how long I actually thought today we were going to start fresh and on the road to repair whats been wrong.

I don't know where to begin. She lied to me. She has and did disrespect me. I asked her she needs to change up her social group as I feel (didn't want to say I been recording) they are not helping our marriage. That they are not good for her and us. She fought back on it. I asked did they help you with the affair? No. Are they fostering a cheating environment and also cheating on their husbands and its condoned? No. Lying right to my face.

I said for us to have a full slate fresh and no chance of full disclosure missing I want to do a poly. She flipped out. Said this was the most absurd thing she has ever heard. Who does this? What is she a criminal? This is not how you treat your spouse. She was like I admitted and told you everything. You have access to my phone, ipad, email whatever. What could that help. I said I need it to feel 100% secure to move on. She was like do you hear yourself? A poly on your wife like a criminal its the most over the top thing I have ever heard. At first I went into this not even going to do it but her reaction was not what I wanted to hear. I got up and said fine so this is over we are over and walked out.

She came in crying and pleading why am I making it so hard. She has not cheated or done anything since the affair. After back and forth I want to know what you are hiding I don't believe you anymore. I said just tell me now. She got so hysterical it was crazy. She finally told me that what she has hidden from me is not that she is still cheating. That she didn't tell me as she was afraid it would make it worse than what happened. But he asked her what is there sexually her and I have not done that he could have for them. Their thing he said. Since she said her and I have pretty much done all you can do sexually she didn't know what to tell him. He would ask this and that and she was like no we do that or did that but he did find something. I don't know if this is allowed and sorry for giving too much info but he got her to swallow. I have never got that. I get blow jobs but never that. She claimed she didn't like it and such. So she did that for him. I don't even know who was sitting across from me during this. Not my wife.

She said that she knew that she loved me and that she was never to going to ruin our marriage so reading the stuff I asked was not needed. That she didn't like that I was changing. Wanting her to work. She said it was like I wanted it to punish her as I never cared before. That I always said I wanted her happy and she is happy not working. That her friends don't work and to be honest she said if I want honesty she is a little embarrassed for us. That she knows I am a hard worker but after my paycut having to work two jobs is embarrassing. She goes I know how that sounds but in our circle that is not done. That when we had people over one Sat and I came down changed to go work in the warehouse for my 2nd job she wanted to crawl under a rock. I cant believe I was hearing this.

I said do you not see I bust my ass for you and your son? That I am killing myself working for you? She goes I know and I love you work hard for me but she goes I am being honest. I said it doesn't bother your friends when they call us and ask for me to go over and fix this in their house or put this in for us. I said your piece of crap guy doesn't even work?!? She goes well his wife made more money and he was there to raise the kids.

She than tells me that when she got lost and was having the affair it was that she felt judged and not as special. That I was making her feel bad as a wife for the house and stuff. I said I was not but it does bother me that I work all day and I come home and there is dishes all over the house not even put in the sink. Or our hamper is overflowing with laundry. I am like how do you think that was going to get done. And I am sorry for lack of attention but I am tired. And did I stop our date nights, sending you flowers, still buying you things and still intitating sex? No.

I was stunned that I was hearing this. I know i am blind but still i couldn't believe the woman i have devoted my life to was this person i was talking to. I told her do you realize how hurt and disrespected i feel? That you have the balls to tell me you have issues? When is the last time i asked you for anything? When is the last time i have done or WE have done something for me? All i do is this and that for you and your son. 24/7 i am doing for you and your son. And for what? For my wife to not feel appreciated enough.

I lost the last ounce of care and love for her. I don't even know what to think. I feel used. I feel taken for a fool. She of course begged and pleaded for us to try, to go to her parents person at the church, to just start fresh. She knows she has faults and was wrong but we love each other. I promised to be with her.

I said i am done. She has just killed me. I don't have anything left to give or feel. I said i am going to stay in a hotel for couple days till i get myself together. But i want her to meet with her parents this weekend and arrange for her to stay with them soon. That i am going to start us separating and the process of divorce. She lost it. Yelling and screaming i don't even want to get into it. I told her i don't care anymore.

Sorry for the pages of my crap. I am done. I am beaten down i don't even know what to think about anything. Even myself. I pretty much feel like a loser and failure i can tell you that. I know i will be told not to but little hard to feel anything else after this. Thanks for the help the wasting of your time.

I said i am done. She has just killed me. I don't have anything left to give or feel. I said i am going to stay in a hotel for couple days till i get myself together. But i want her to meet with her parents this weekend and arrange for her to stay with them soon. That i am going to start us separating and the process of divorce. She lost it. Yelling and screaming i don't even want to get into it. I told her i don't care anymore.

You reached breaking point and have now taken a good step from the sound of things.

I haven't read the whole story but I don't think its a waste of anyone's time. You have to do what is for you.

Do NOT think anything that has happened is a failure of you. You asked her to help, she has refused because of a social circle? That is simply childish. This shit isn't high school, its adult life.

I wish you good luck, buddy. Take her to the cleaners.

You haven't wasted anyone's time. This place is about SURVIVNG infidelity. And you're doing that.

Your WW sounds selfish on an extraordinary level. I am in R, and have to say my fWW is doing everything she can to fix us. It isn't clear that your WW is capable of that. I'm so sorry, yet...it IS clear to me that you're a survivor.

Keep plugging, buddy. We are here for you.