SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Later I got the tears and drama that go ahead and leave her, all guys have, make her feel unloved and ruin the family for her son to have grown up with. That I promised her that I would always love and take care of her and in the end I lied too. That I always prided myself of being a man of my word and in the end I don't want to.

Gary

You can’t debate crazy and win so don’t even try.

To make a long story short, I was at a kid birthday party for my step son when one of the dads mentioned that my step son spent the night here and there on dates that didn't add up as I knew I worked them. I asked for clarification and when he went to his wife she turned white as a ghost and said her husband was confused.

Gary

Is the woman that set her up with nights with the OM one of the women she’s talking to now? You let this go for a couple of months. Did this woman's husband ever put two and two together and realize that she was actively helping your wife's affair? If she's helping your wife then I don't see her having much of a problem having her own affair.

[This message edited by Graywolf at 2:13 PM, April 26th (Tuesday)]

If every guy she was with is leaving her, maybe she is the problem.

I still cannot believe how entitled and manipulative she is through the whole process.

Do you think she will fight for you if separate from her ? I have a feeling that she will get very nasty.

I’m just wondering if your WW has some kind of learning disability. Sounds like she is avoiding doing the reading. Does she have a kindle? Have you seen her reading books? Is it possible that she suffers from dyslexia or some other condition that makes reading difficult? It’s either that or she’s just lazy and stupid.

Then again, perhaps she doesn’t understand how important it is that she does the reading.

While I realize you wish she would do this on her own without any prodding from you, I think you should spell it out for her. Tell her that if she is really interested in you healing and the marriage staying together then she will have read Linda MacDonald’s “How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair” by Saturday and you will discuss her understanding of what she read.

If you make it clear to her that reading the materials you have suggested is integral to your healing and a requirement for R and she still avoids it then you can tell her she has shown you she isn’t interested in R and to quit complaining about you leaving her.

Dobby, I am angry and such now and probably not being fair or level headed but I do think my loved or loves me. Now as if she respects me that is a different story. I don't feel respected or appreciated by her but if I am being honest with myself I think she loves me. But what do I know really?

StaillStanding, Yes I am starting to see, I didn't want to and I had my head in the sand but I do. But I am done making excuses for her. Thanks for your kind words from you. What I am struggling with is I did all this for my wife and still this is happening.

Freeme, your words hit me hard and that is a good thing. I see some of that now. Yes she is those things you said but I played a part in that too. I have to own up to that and not put it all on her. I have a hand in this.

Graywolf, she sees her at stuff but after our talk she is not in the phone calls that I am hearing. If they are talking in person which is possible I don't know it.

Kimichi, great question. I don't even know. Not sure if she will fight for me or just fight me. I worry too it will get nasty when she is facing all this.

40YOSL, my wife can read and such. She is a college grad. she reads at home on her ipad and kindle. Smut stories and every gossip mag and website you can think of. Funny she would sit on the couch and rail on this celebrity or that one that was cheating and act all disgusted. Ugh.

As I said, give her an assignment with a deadline and then see if she is really interested in R.

It might also be interesting to listen to how she relates your request to her friends and what their responses would be.

I am just worn out. Tired of myself. Tired of being taken advantage of. She even would do a portion of what I read here other wives have done that have cheated I be right back giving her my all. Don't know if that makes me still a sucker or not.

That's because you are a Giver married to a Taker.

Does that make you a sucker? No, but you have chosen an unhealthy relationship strategy. You are trading servitude for love and are surprised when a Taker (like your wife) doesn't want to give you what you need.

I mean seriously, you talk about working a third job if she will just give you some measly scraps of change?

Speaking of change, it's clear she is completely mystified about why she should change. But why should she understand why she should change? Up untill now everything she was doing has been working for her. You have accepted who she is. People don't change what works for them. Her parents didn't demand she change it. You didn't demand it. Hell, her unofficial nickname is "princess".

The only people who nope'd out on her were her previous relationships. I'm sure their side of the story includes some way she violated their boundaries. And they are supposed to be the bad guys? I'm still trying to understand what Gary1995 has as boundaries. Not having them doesn't make you the good guy.

I am curious. It seems she has read some of the "how to help your spouse" articles. At least some.

Does that ever come up in her Gary's Wrong Committee meetings while you are at one of your jobs? For example, does she ever tell them, "I read this article to be patient and understanding of my betrayed husband."?

Do any of the women ever bring up the subject, or does your wife always bring it up first?

Also, it would seem strange that none of these women ever would bring up about the other man. He has a child in the school, he is still in the area, he still takes care of the kid, and your son was a friend if his, or her friends' sons, on top of if infidelity is the subject, it seems odd that no one would say " guess who I ran into" or something like that. What do you think?

SquirrelFace, I appreciate the response and don't take this the wrong way but I am not saying I am a good guy. I am not saying I have not had a hand in this or I am part of why my wife is the way she is. I know you all are just getting my side and I am doing my best to not paint me as this great guy ok. I wish my wife was on here and give you her side. I would not disagree if she had stuff to say. Possible things she might say:

I keep a lot to myself like feelings or if I am upset. I just try to let it pass or work it on my own. She might feel left out on stuff like that. I have a hard time telling people know. I am somewhat handy. I have done a lot of work for friends and such to help out. Maybe I spread myself too thin and not around like she would like. I am probably too anal on my wanting of a clean house. Yes she doesn't do housework but maybe I don't need to do all that I do. Let there be a mess now and than. Who cares she doesn't cook and orders take out when I cant cook. So do a lot of people and its fine now and than but maybe I didn't have to say no and cook at certain times. I know when I am stressed I like to have a drink or two. Not getting drunk but maybe I could not revert to that when things are getting me down.

My point is I am no saint. I have crap I am sure my wife is not happy with. I did my best though. Im just trying all I can to save a marriage that is showing all signs that is not going to be saved. But please don't think I am portraying that I am this great guy that was never my intent.

wk55hn, last I knew he was kicked out the house and living with a friend. For all I know his wife isn't letting him see them. I know he is not at the little league games I coach at or at least I don't see him. As for not hearing them on the phone about it maybe my wife has a burner? Or like she said it was not the sex just the attention, he is kicked out nowhere to go so she wiped him out. I mean I wouldn't say she would have a hard time forgetting him that is her deal.

They ask her how it is at home and that is usually how it starts the conversation. Or if she will be going to the girls get away beach trip they go on. It doesn't take much to get the topic going.

Gary, I'm not saying you are a bad guy. Hell, we are the same dude who have done the same things in relationships and that's where my tough love comes from. I'm rooting for you and on your side. But I think you realize that enabling your wife to be this selfish in the relationship has not gotten you what you need.

That being said, I don't think your wife would have turned out any differently without you or with someone else. She is who she is and you need to determine if she is even capable of change before wondering when she will change.

The thing I had to trust was when it came to my xW was I was terrible judge of her character. I had to put my faith in others who weren't emotionally compromised for that.

I keep a lot to myself like feelings or if I am upset. I just try to let it pass or work it on my own. She might feel left out on stuff like that. I have a hard time telling people know. I am somewhat handy. I have done a lot of work for friends and such to help out. Maybe I spread myself too thin and not around like she would like. I am probably too anal on my wanting of a clean house. Yes she doesn't do housework but maybe I don't need to do all that I do. Let there be a mess now and than. Who cares she doesn't cook and orders take out when I cant cook. So do a lot of people and its fine now and than but maybe I didn't have to say no and cook at certain times. I know when I am stressed I like to have a drink or two. Not getting drunk but maybe I could not revert to that when things are getting me down.

Stop compromising who you are. Stop apologizing for who you are too.

You realize, from your backstory, everything about your relationship has been a compromise. You married a single mother and raised her (and another man's) son like your own. You stepped into a relationship with a woman where immediately you were number two in her world. Plenty of married fathers could tell you how they dropped in status to somewhere below the family dog after kids, but at least they were the most important person to their wives for a while. You never got that.

You work two jobs and give and give and give and I'm sitting here wondering what compromises your wife ever made. She didn't even compromise her fidelity to you.

Gary, I told you I feel you have a codependency problem.

Your last post stating your 'deficiencies', then saying that she could come on here and give her side of the story which 'may be true' and then saying that you are trying to save this marriage when she has done nothing to show you that it is worth saving -- it all proves my point.

You are destined to be second class to her for the rest of your life and Squirrelface hit it in his last few sentences. he is completely accurate.

You are asking for the impossible here. You are trying to save a marriage with an unremorseful cheater who took your gift to her (raising her son - notice how I said hers and not yours- , allowing her not to work and contribute, enduring an affair in your own bed while you were working two jobs to support her and her not showing an ounce of appreciation) and all you can come up with is you are trying to 'save a marriage'. Look, I am again requesting that you read that book I referenced and then step outside of your situation as though you were a third party and see how you are conducting yourself and what changes you would request if you were your own friend.

BTW, who's house is it ? And why are you anticipating leaving ? And if you leave that house, what is to prevent her hooking up with him again ?

You need a gameplan, Gary. One that starts with you and taking control of the situation. You are being too nice and indecisive and you are spinning your wheels as a result.

You have maintained respect for those giving you harsh criticism. I respect that. But you also need to start respecting yourself. This isn't a game, Gary. It's your life. It's not mine. So what are you going to do ???

Gary,

She continues to make this all about her. As long as that continues you don't have much to work with.

In my opinion you have got to quit blaming yourself.

This process will beat you down enough on its own.

So quit beating yourself up.

You've learned the hard way like I did that trying to do it all for a lazy, ungrateful person can come back to bite you.

So you realize that you allowed her to have it too easy.

Okay, so if R ever becomes a legit option, you simply re-boot the new marriage with a new set of boundaries and expectations.

If she asks "why you wanna change me" you simply tell her the old marriage was broken. You abused my trust and took advantage of me in many ways. If you want a chance to win me back, things are going to be a lot different around here.

She sounds crazy and paranoid about everything. Her antics show me she doesn't want to change or work hard to win you back. She wants to stay the same and manipulate you back through guilt. As if you have anything to feel guilty for.

She is showing regret, not remorse. If this woman truly wants you to stay, she should be on her knees asking you what she needs to do. She should have read all the books. She should be putting in job applications.

Anyways, your mistakes are not the reason for her infidelity. You played no role in her infidelity. I mean zero. That was 100% her. Stop beating yourself up man!

Western hit it out of the park.

Quit making excuses for her and her choices. Quite simply she chose to cheat. At some point she jistofied in her brain that it was ok to cheat.

If she was unhappy she had a choice actually several choices. Talk to you, force the issue and get therapy as a couple, or file for D. Nope none of those were chosen. Instead she thought a boyfriend would help matters.

Do you see the insanity of this?

Quit making excuses for her choices.

She chose this. Doesnt matter what you di . Not ok to cheat ever.

Gary, you story is, of course, tragic. It also has an element of tragic stupidity. What I'm referring to is your wife's seeming inability, unwillingness, stubbornness, or whatever to start to do some real work around reconciliation. It is tragic and stupid because I think I read pretty clearly through your many posts that she wants the marriage to continue and that she loves you. And likely not just for "meal ticket" reasons. Maybe I'm a rube, but I just don't believe there are that many people in the world who are conniving enough to pull off the "old faithful at home, wild sex on the side" thing for that long.

So what is going on with her? Can I ask again something I said in a previous post:

Finally, it is worth thinking about why she doesn't want to read the books and get a job. The easiest answer is that she is lazy. But I think this is a lazy explanation. I believe that nearly everyone in the world, if motivated will work hard. More likely is that she is afraid. Afraid of change, afraid of the unknown, afraid of looking deep within herself, afraid of judgment of others.

What is stopping her? Why won't she step up? If that is what you want, can you take an action that will help motivate her?

[This message edited by chifrudo at 9:45 PM, April 26th (Tuesday)]

She did nothing wrong, only made a mistake. Her mistake is easily fixable by you making changes to make her happy.

She lacks empathy. Without it, true R can never happen.

At the beginning of your thread I suggested a test. I suggested testing her remorsefulness by stating that since she cheated in the home with a neighbor you'd need to sell the home and change neighborhoods. And because she blamed your inattention due to working two jobs so she could be a SAHM as the reason for her affair, you would quit your second job and she'd need to get a fulltime job in return.

Whether or not you actually want these things, I think it would have been an interesting test of whether she's willing to put your healing ahead of her own selfishness.

I don't know if there is any more to say than what has already been discussed. Right now things are static, because in order for you to have even the slightest hope of reconciliation, you need something.....ANYTHING.....positive from your WW..

And she won't do it. Not that she can't do it---she won't.

I think that Freeme's last post summed it up perfectly. You were fine with the existing dynamic because you were satisfied. You accepted her as your partner....faults and all....because along with the happiness she gave you, there was an expected level of mutual specialness. Something that was unique to your relationship.

And ultimately, she didn't see it that way. The feelings weren't reciprocal. You came to realize, under the worst possible betrayal, that you were not cherished or respected. You simply became one more *object* in her life, that she could deal with as she pleased.

Gary, this is not what relationships are about. There are so many women out there that would dream of a partner like you. That would treat you with the same respect and compassion that you would show to them. You just have to get through the realization/fears that you do not need to be tied to this marriage. You shouldn't be tied to this marriage.

Could your WW change? Anything is possible, but I would highly doubt that she is willing to put the real effort in to do so. She never has before, so why would she start now? You are waiting for her to fight for you, but unfortunately, you need to come to the acceptance that she doesn't value you like you wished. It is a harsh, cold reality to come to grips that you are not looked at as special in her eyes. At least not as *special* as one partner would/should look at the other. Sorry.

I keep a lot to myself like feelings or if I am upset. I just try to let it pass or work it on my own. She might feel left out on stuff like that. I have a hard time telling people know. I am somewhat handy. I have done a lot of work for friends and such to help out. Maybe I spread myself too thin and not around like she would like. I am probably too anal on my wanting of a clean house. Yes she doesn't do housework but maybe I don't need to do all that I do. Let there be a mess now and than. Who cares she doesn't cook and orders take out when I cant cook. So do a lot of people and its fine now and than but maybe I didn't have to say no and cook at certain times. I know when I am stressed I like to have a drink or two. Not getting drunk but maybe I could not revert to that when things are getting me down.

Are you fucking kidding me Gary ?

Yes, I agree with Tushnurse and Kimichi.

Gary,

You have your evidence, this women does not respect you, she is manipulating you and bragging to her friends about it.

It's time to generate a plan and move on, time to speak to a lawyer.

She will never change and you will not fix her broken self.