SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi Everyone - I have surfaced, so to speak. It's been a hell of an emotional week, a real rollercoaster, but only in my mind as I have taken myself through every thought, scenario, confrontation and conversation with my WH. I was sent some links by some of the wonderful people here to help me through this and they were eye-opening. All so helpful.

Sopainful:

But the second part is what actually brought me to SI. Its my own behavior as I was learning of his affair. I was disgusted with myself and how I reacted... the HB, the pick me dance, the way I did not honor and respect myself. How I believed all of his lies. This has also been a huge part of my healing. This is what separates me from TOC. I so admire her... and envy her. And I look up to her and think.... "good grief, I wish I could have been her."

This made me cry. For both of us. For all of us who are put in a position to question, humiliate and lower ourselves. I have battled these thoughts the entire time even though I maybe haven't really articulated that and it's probably what hurts me the most. Why wasn't I good enough? I cuts me to my very core.

After reading from the Healing Library and other sources sent to me by a lot of you, I really do have to believe, accept and train my thoughts that it is NOT about me. It's about him. In the end, it's a crying shame. He's just such an idiot for throwing it all away.

Your messages and posts blow me away. I have gone back to read them again and again to gain strength. I can't thank you enough. I never came here thinking I could inspire anyone, especially during such a crap period in my life. You have to know that without bouncing my thoughts and ideas off all of you and getting back your amazing advice, I would have made some really stupid moves. In fact, even still I have done that.

I have to say I LOVED my email ideal for my WH but in the end, it was very high schoolish and even cringeworthy. WH told my lawyer he would never send me an email to that address and that I should grow up. Well EFF him! (Boy, did I get a potty mouth throughout all of this,too. At the time it all felt so right. After days of yoga, massages, body scrubs and mud baths, I may finally have that under control. Maybe. :) ) Sorry if my swearing has offended anyone.

The days away have been a god-send. I have to say the complete separation from WH has been a god-send. I understand the 180 and its purpose so much more and with a clearer head, time and distance it makes so much more sense. I keep reading it over and over and I keep getting a new take-away from it. One of my friends told me I was "running away" from my problems by being here but now I know that's not true at all. It's a comment that kept creeping into my thoughts while here when I was thinking of checking out and heading home. I needed this time here, not just because of what my WH is putting me through but I was supposed to be on vacation with my WH at this time and I really needed that vacation. This is not Tuscany (where I had planned to be today) but it's exactly where I need to be under the new circumstances.

I met an incredible lady from Kansas City while I was here. Whether she believes it or not (because I told her over and over again), she has helped put almost everything in perspective for me. Many people come to these hot springs for physical healing and that was her reason. I won't share her whole story but she has just found out cancer has returned after being in remission and only she knows right now. She hasn't told her husband or her children and she said she needed this time to herself before "the shit hits the fan." (Her words.) She needed to build the strength in herself to deal with the trauma her family will go through because she says she knows she won't make it this time. I can barely type through this without falling apart thinking about her and her poor family. People have real problems! My problem seems so absolutely insignificant after talking with her that I was even embarrassed to tell her my story. She has no idea how much she helped me and how much strength I will be drawing from her down the road my entire life.

I know an update is in order so I do want to let you know that WH has been served. He has asked my whereabouts from our mutual friends and I only know by getting texts from a few of them. My phone really did die and I decided not to charge it up until just recently and have just seen the texts. He was served on Tuesday. I have no idea his reaction. It's a hazard of going NC. I'm sad. Very sad. I'm supposed to be the one who has his back when he gets bad news but instead I'm handing it to him. That's not how I saw this relationship going.

But I am also decisive in my decision to move ahead with the D. I have read countless stories of the excruciating pain and agony to go through R and honestly, I just don't think I have it in me. Life is short. My time grows more limited every day. I can do better.

I'm going to give WH access to me again by phone and email. I plan to call him later tomorrow (because it's very late here) and tell him if he wants, we can get together on Sunday to talk about this. I have no idea what his reaction will be but whatever it is, I feel really prepared to deal with him.

Lastly - for those worried about my dog, she is now finally safe with friends. All good there.

TOC

So glad to read your update. Sounds as though your yoga retreat was a much needed respite which allowed you time to reflect and find balance. More later, just wanted to welcome you back. I'm sure you are looking forward to being with your dog again, she must miss you as well.

TOC, gently, I guess your WH is somehow spoiled by your kind attitude in the past if after f... your dog sitter for 4 months he finds it humiliating to contact you by using this e-mail – the e-mail with HIS OWN message in it...

Your posts are a great encouragement for many others. Your self-control is stellar!

I have to say I LOVED my email ideal for my WH but in the end, it was very high schoolish and even cringeworthy. WH told my lawyer he would never send me an email to that address and that I should grow up. Well EFF him

!

Don't worry about this at all. The text itself was high schoolish cringeworthy and more devistating to you then any old email address could have been. In the end you gave him a chance to email you and ask for forgiveness, or have his say. That in itself was extremely nice for you to do.

When you do meet with him realize that he just might take the offensive. Try to guilt you about the misguided vacation, the blocking, moving out, being served, the email. These things are nothing compared to a 4 month physical affair and you did what you needed to do to heal.

Normally, it's best to let the WH do most of the talking so you can get your answers without leading him.

I should grow up

REALLY? .... REALLY?

News flash to your WH: You had to do some major "growing up" in a very short period of time.

FTG.

As far as your friend is concerned, that you're running away from your problems, she must not understand the pain of being betrayed. I would not try to defend yourself as you have nothing to defend.

You're doing everything right, TOC...and I'm glad you had a chance to recharge your batteries and get pampered.

Hugs!!

Turn,

How fortunate you found Kansas City Lady. Karma? I read your post to say that it helped with your processing and healing.

You used the word "perspective" in relating to her. The perspective it brought to my mind was a comparison of KCL with those that betrayed you.

KCL is only thinking of others, her family, when no one would fault her for retreating deep inside herself. Take that selfless person and compare her to Mr. CandyMan and Ms. CandyLand. They embody selfishness and overwhelming entitlement. Creates a vivid picture for me of people on the opposite ends of measurements of character, integrity and fidelity.

I should grow up

Hah...what a fool he is. You are the one that demonstrated fidelity in your marriage, and integrity and character in the face of betrayal. You possess maturity and emotional intelligence. He regressed to an immature, juvenile version of what a faithful adult should be.

I would be gentle with the person that suggested you were running away from dealing with the betrayal. If they are part of IRL Team TOC then they would have had your best interest in mind. Running away, AKA denial, is not healthy. However, it was clear to all of us that you weren't running away. You were processing the betrayal and fortifying your depleted physical, spiritual, and mental reserves. Taking an essential break to get your feet back underneath you.

Please know that we will be there with you should he chose to meet with you Sunday.

Timeless

Hi TOC,

I completely agree with Freeme.

Be VERY careful when you meet WH.

I would meet him in a public place, if I were you,

(but one where you will be able to talk privately, like the back booth in a restaurant),

not in your old home

(not because of him getting violent or anything, but because at your old home he will have the upper hand more and be able to play on nostalgia).

He has already shown you who he is. Remember that cheaters are liars, and that he is very manipulative. He was not planning to end his A but he got caught---don't forget that.

Don't give him any information, don't agree to anything, and don't let him talk you into sweeping anything under the rug.

He will probably try to take advantage of your kindness and sentimentality.

Don't fall for it. Make sure you have clear & firm boundaries, and have a few lines ready such as :"I will have to think about that." "I will have to check with my lawyer first." "I will have to check with my daughter/son first." etc.

And don't take any abuse or disrespect! such as this:

I should grow up

If he starts with that^^^, be ready to walk.

I would read up on the 180 before you go.

Awesome advice and input, mchercheur!

I'm coming really late to this, but it's one of the most compelling threads I've ever seen.

My first comment is that TOC, you are a fucking rock star. Seriously.

As for your WH's "grow up" comment--you are more then entitled to a little acting out over all of this and you've been incredibly restrained all things considered. I've done a shit ton worse stuff in the days and months after discovering my EX's A. Way, waaaaayyyyy worse then your "email" incident.

You've been D'ed before and I believe as such you are in a much better position to walk away from this debacle then a lot of people. The fear of "can I survive on my own" doesn't exist for you and that's a huge question answered.

I was totally unprepared to end my M when Dday 1 rolled around and not having found this site, I did a lot that wasn't "right" in the aftermath. I was hardwired to stay in my M, and desperately tried to keep the family together. It was crazy making shit for a year and a month until I discovered that my Ex had continued contact with the OW. I was done. It was such a relief. You are streets ahead in your healing having made this decision early on.

They do affair down, by definition, they picked low hanging fruit for whatever stupid FOO issues and sense of entitlement and arrogance (and what ever else combination of forces that lead them to such a destructive course of action). My Ex's OW was laughably ugly. And that was just the inside. And the fact that her name is "Candy" omfg. You can't make this shit up. It's difficult in the early days to not think that she had something you didn't, that there was something wrong with you, but you couldn't have stopped or changed anything that your STBXH was going to do. It's all on him.

And his pity party email to you following your phone call... Well, I think others have skewered that shit as much as it needed. Puh-leeze.

Anyway, you are a survivor and you should be proud of that. Yes, their will be a considerable amount of pain to process, but you'll get through it. There will be some dark moments and reality whiplash in the coming months, but you'll be fine. More then fine.

TOC, if you have any doubts about whether or not you did the right thing, read these 2 threads:

"R was a fraud"

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=592482

"She did it again..."

http://www.survivinginfidelity.com/forums.asp?tid=592440

You are avoiding all of this^^^^. I know you are in pain but better to go thru it now & heal than to have it prolongued like some of us have had.

Hey TOC,

I'm late to all of this, but I just wanted to say I'm sorry you're here.

You just keep being you - it'll all work itself out.

If only you were running for President!

Turn,

From Mchercheur:

Make sure you have clear & firm boundaries, and have a few lines ready such as :"I will have to think about that." "I will have to check with my lawyer first." "I will have to check with my daughter/son first." etc.

I'd add to your arsenal:

"I'm sorry you feel that way". It actually doesn't convey sorrow and it doesn't validate anything he has said. And,

"That doesn't work for me/won't work for me/will not ever work for me". A statement that brings closure. And,

"No". The best response of all.

Think about the end goal for the meeting:

Is this meeting the last communication (in person, text, e-mail) before you go NC? If so, you need to avoid anything that sounds like getting together in the future to discuss things. If this is the last meeting then you'll want to bring closure by stating that any future communication should be through your attorney.

A take away I have from one of your previous posts and his email after the JFK conversation is that he has difficulty communicating on a deeper level. The email repeatedly says he has no way of explaining his cheating and hopes he can find a way to explain it. I think he can't find his words, but you know him best.

So I think in the meeting you'll get "I love you", "I always have loved you", "Give me a chance to make it up to you", "I promise to spend the rest of my life being the husband you deserve", yada yada, yada.

You've prepared yourself for many scenarios, have shown great resolve and resiliency. You'll do just fine.

It's great to hear from you, TOC! I"m so glad that you took that time for yourself, to reflect, to find some peace and to relax a bit (if that's even possible in these circumstances).

I'm adding my support and I can't resist making two comments:

>> I should grow up

With all due respect (actually, no respect..FTG ), this is an incredibly selfish comment. Was the email address a bit high-school-ish? Perhaps. But it's VERY rich of him to comment about faults on your part after what he's done. At this point, you deserve some satisfaction even if it's childish and if necessary, he needs to quietly suffer hits to his pride to make that happen. If he doesn't have the grace to suck it up and eat humble pie, he deserves to be kicked to the curb harshly. He's not in a position to offer anything other than abject apologies at this moment. I think I'm angrier on your behalf because I remember the "I wish you'd just asked me" comment on the phone. Both reek of gentle reproach, disappointment in you and come from an oh-so-mature, "let's be adults" high ground. Don't fall for it. You've been wonderful and strong through all this. Don't let him convince you otherwise when you see him. Don't second-guess yourself. BIG HUGS!

>> ! My problem seems so absolutely insignificant after talking with her.

I'm glad you met KC lady and gained some perspective but I humbly disagree with this statement. Contemplating the end of one's life is all kinds of horrible but you're contemplating the end of your marriage through betrayal. He was supposed to be your one and only, your soft place to fall and look what he did. Basically, you're desperately in love with your enemy and you probably alternate between sadness + rage and sadness + a desire to forget everything and just tumble into his arms for comfort.

You rock, TOC. I wish I knew you in real life...you are a kickass person.

My first time posting to this thread but have been following it.

I should grow up

I can't believe he had the nerve to say that to you when he's the one acting like a horny teenager.

Bravo to you on how you have dealt with this shit sandwich he served you.

Big hugs to you and I hope you are on your way to healing.

This ^^^:

I can't believe he had the nerve to say that to you when he's the one acting like a horny teenager.

Hey TOC, glad you are back! Even more glad that you really had a chance to take a break and restore some energy.

I didn't get a chance to see the email before it came down, but it never hurts to let them know you what you are thinking about them, and his reaction shows he got the message.

I hope you are in as good a place as it sounds -- although I am sure it is still painful. As for D vs S vs R discussions, that fact that you are open to talking to him to get closure seems to mean to me that you haven't fully decided. Rather, you have expressed your very firm intent to D.

That's a pretty good place to start. It means that if he wants to earn a second chance with you you don't even have a list of requirements. You are focused on yourself and your life and happiness. If at some point along the way he has done everything it turns out you would need him to do to be a safe partner for the rest of your life then maybe you'd consider that, if you haven't already made other plans, with or without someone else.

Or maybe you wouldn't consider it under any circumstances. You won't know and he won't find out for a while.

Again, pat yourself on the back for how you handled this, relax and move forward in strength!

TOC,

So glad to hear your update, and about the wonderful woman you met. Perspective is important and uncanny at times.

When you do meet WH, think about what the purpose is for yourself. Do you want answers? I can say that not a single one will make you feel better, but personally, I felt the need for answers as a coping mechanism for closure bc the pain is so unbearable.

He will try to minimize and rug-sweep, even blame-shift his answers when he meets you in a blind attempt to get you back. He will not realize he is still in 'the fog.' If you feel he is doing this, then ask him this: While you were on vacation this week, did he have ANY contact with Candy? Tell her he was served? Anything about the dogs? ANY contact? I will almost guarantee they made contact. Since you are divorcing him, it won't matter, but your heart will want you to see the best in him. He will TRY to show you the best in him, and cover his true behaviors as 'damage control.' He will most likely lie that he didn't have contact, but the likelihood is there.

This meeting will be important. As someone stated above, though, what are the goals? Without him being hooked up to a polygraph, he will most likely be lying to you out of fear when you begin asking questions.

Keep posting. And btw, will you sign autographs? We are all fan-girling you here, bc you are so powerful through the pain and agony of this. It's incredible to behold.

Bring a var w/you. the meeting will most likely go too fast for you to remember everything. Having this will help you decode what he says at a later date.

Just a thought.

I know when my x and I had our last chat [didn't know it was the last one till BAAM] I still had a different impression of what we were going to talk about.

wish I would have recorded it to review what a pos she really is.

Hi all -

I know I say it often but seriously, without your posts of support, I'd be a complete and total mess. Without your advice, I would have made the dumbest possible mistakes and would be losing my mind, more than I am already. Thank god for SI and all of you. This fucking journey I've been put on sucks beyond my imagination and pisses me off to no end.

So, I did call WH on Friday or Saturday, I can't even remember at this time - but of course I'm two glasses of wine into the evening as I type this. Thankfully, I was not two glasses into my day at the time I called him and I had practiced, practiced, practiced keeping the conversation on track and going in the direction I wanted it to go. I was steadfast. Our talk was going to be about HIM and his behavior and not about me or mine! I learned that from all of you so THANK YOU!

Right out of the gate he answers the phone with, "I can't believe you filed for divorce. Where are you?" Not hello. Not are you OK? Not I'm sorry. Not I miss you. No. My reply? "I can't believe what a mess you made of everything by fucking her over and over and over again for at least 4 months."

Not a chance in hell he was going to rug-sweep and gaslight me. (All things I learned from all of you.) I told him I was calling to tell him I planned to be home over the weekend and if he wanted to get together, I could agree to meet sometime on Sunday. He asked if he could pick me up at the airport and I declined. I told him I could make time on Sunday and we could meet for coffee or lunch. I told him the only reason I wanted to get together was so he could tell me why he did this, then I would listen and he should be ready to talk. So we set it up and he even thanked me for finally calling.

To his credit, he never copped an attitude with me which I really thought he might. In any case, we settled on Sunday lunch and so we met earlier today - for the first time in almost 3 weeks. Face to face.

He looked like shit. (YES!) Awful to say but it made me feel great because after a week of relaxation (if you can call it that), yoga, beauty treatments and lots of eye cream to keep puffy eyes down, I think I looked pretty awesome - maybe even relaxed and glowing (his words). And thanks to him and his fucking affair, I'm down almost 12 pounds!

His biggest problem still? He's really bothered by my filing for D. Not bothered about the A. Not pissed at himself. Not sorry for it. Not sorry for even getting caught. No, he can't believe I filed.

After telling him how disappointed I am that this is now twice his first comment to me after all of this crap, I reminded him we always had this deal so I'm incredulous he even thinks this. He said he never thought in a million years he would be a person who cheated and finally started apologizing over and over for being "such a dick." (His words.) Not for fucking someone else. For being a dick. At this point I'm not at all happy with how this is going and tell him I think I've wasted my time meeting him and I need to go. I told him the whole point in meeting with him was to hear from him why this happened and after being put through hell for 3 weeks, if he wasn't going to explain it all, I was gone.

Bottom line? He doesn't know or won't tell me. He said he doesn't love her. He said he hasn't spoken to her. He mentioned a lot of other things not related to why he did this. None of the things he said were things I wanted to hear at this point.

So I got up, told him I did the best I could, was the best wife I knew how to be but clearly it wasn't enough for him so I was not going to be his wife anymore. I told him he mis-represented himself to me as one of the good guys but he actually wasn't one of the good guys. I told him how terribly disappointed I was in him and then I left.

And now I'm here, down 2 glasses of wine and no better off than I was before and still with no more information than I had before this whole thing started.

This. Sucks. On to glass of wine number 3.

[This message edited by TurnOtherCheek at 5:09 PM, October 2nd (Sunday)]

To his credit, he never copped an attitude with me which I really thought he might.

You know why?

Because you got your strength right away and took total control. You could never control him but you did control yourself, your life and what you're willing to accept or not accept.

So many could/should learn from this.

As for why? The million dollar question. Mainly because he could. I think he never thought in a million years he'd get caught. Not to mention you wouldn't automatically give him a second chance.

I've seen this before. Most cheaters think they are entitled to a second chance. They always say it was a "mistake" when in reality it was a decision made consciously and willingly.

His reaction doesn't smell like he's R material. Don't waste your time on this.