SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Dear HA123.

I was thinking of you often these last two days. As you can tell your plight has touched me. I feel empathy for you and want to offer what help I can.

I can't assure you that everything will be OK. It really won't likely be, not if you define OK as same as it was before. But you can, someday be okay. But that depends greatly on what lessons you choose to learn, how you define this opportunity.

For this is an opportunity. To learn about yourself, discover things about yourself you did not want to know but now must know, and change the things you choose to change.

You are not who you thought you were. But you can become who you wish to be. Not by rolling back the clock and making different choices in the past, but by making choices now.

I have some thoughts about your husband. I hesitate to write this because what I have to say will likely be very painful to you. But you seem to prefer straight talk as long as it is offered with compassion. So I will give you what I can.

HA123, I wish you could have what you want, which is to be your husbands wife again in every way, but I think that is not the probable outcome.

There are a lot of people who are living through the aftermath of betrayal, and it is always devistating. But many fewer of them are living through betrayal by a childhood first love, and that is something different.

What your husband is suffering, in addition yo betrayal, is heartbreak. And heartbreak is different from simple betrayal. Many of us have someone with whom we first learned to love, as man and woman, and to whom we opened our heart. And the heart opens so fully to that first person. It does not know hurt yet. When that heart is broken, it is -- very hard. Very, very, very hard. We heal, and we learn to open ourselves to love again, but not in quite the same way. We are no longer innocent. We trust again, but never with the same abandon and utter innocence.

People whose hearts get broken often love the person who broke they heart. I still very much love the person who broke mine. I have also long since forgiven her. But many, maybe most us never trust that person the same way. We can never feel safe with that person again. Even if we think rationally she will not again betray us.

This is beyond rational. It is more like burning your hand the first time, and never approaching fire the same way again. The flinch does not go away.

There is one other hard thing I need to tell you. Unfortunately the type of person you choose as your affair partner is also, well, uniquely bad.

Very few men end up with their first love. The role models men are offered by other men do not make that easy. Men talk among themselves, and posture, and part of that posturing is about sexual success or serial sexual experience. A man who is loyal to his first armors himself against that by taking all the more pride in what he has with her. He tells himself that what he has is something rare, and special, and it sets him apart.

Unfortunately you have given away his special. You have signaled that what he valued as his treasure was your burden, your prison, and ultimately your trash to be thrown away.

Also all loyal and respectful men know players. We know the bad boys, the cads, the men who use women. We have been sharing locker rooms and classrooms and workplaces and nightclubs with them all our lives. We know them inside and out. And we hate them. A little bit from jealousy and insecurity, but also from strength and confidence. Loyal men define their character against such men as your AP, as being not like them. Our life is a refutation and rejection of them. That you chose such a man is--really, really devastating.

Your husband is going to hate your affair partner. And he is likely to loose respect for you in a way he will not find it easy to regain, no matter who you have been, who you are, and who you became. You rejected your husband's life story about himself, his statement to the world of men of what it means to be a strong man. I know you didn't mean to. But you did, even if you didn't mean to.

I say this not to hurt you. But I would not be giving you the most honest insight I can unless I tried to convey this. I think it will help you understand some specific sources for his pain and by showing you understand it, help validate it and heal it a little.

But I would encourage you not to define this as a fight for your family. Because I think that is a fight beyond your power to win. And anyway, that is really your husband's fight.

He is in a fight for himself first, and only after a very long time will he have any idea if he can keep himself and also keep you in his family of the heart. It does not mean he does not love you. He does. But his self respect may not now be able to be reconciled with to respect you as a husband must respect a wife.

Your fight is to fight for you, not him, not your family. To fight for your integrity. To fight to use your sorrow to offer compassion and healing to others.

And so, I come back to my first advice to you, which I will make my last advice. It is, to see radical humility. Seek a stillness and gentleness of soul. You cannot fight your way out of this. Pride will not guide you way out of it. Strength alone will not get you out of it.

When people say hurtful things from a spirit of hurt, recognize that their own hurt is talking and let it go. But when people say things you disagree with, don't reflexively say "That's wrong, that's not me. I know me and you are wrong." Humility says "I have learned I do not know myself as well as I thought. I have learned that no matter how I feel, I need to see what my actions say. And be humble about the truth that my actions may tell a different story about who I am." Humility does not say, "You're wrong!" It says, "right now I don't feel that what you say is true, but I will think about it. I will sit with what you say and see if I can find some truth for me in it if I sit with it for a while."

Good luck to you. I am very sorry. But I wish you well in making good choices that lead you to be a person of integrity, and self respect, who turns her wreckage to empathy and compassion and wisdom. You can bring much good to many people in a long life yet to come.

Edited to fix typos

[This message edited by Owl6118 at 7:02 AM, December 12th (Monday)]

when I found out the reactions OM could get from my body it became much more about the sex

I hope you read this again and again and see what everyone else see's in this statement.

Still don't see it? Well this statement is ass backwards. It wasn't the sex, you craved the response from the OM. You said it plain as day in that statement.

So really it wasn't about the sex at all. The AP only reacted to what you showed him you liked and what buttons he needed to push.

Trying to show you that the excuse of "just sex" is a justification that will crumble and fall apart as you go down this road to recovery and healing. Trust me my wife who was a cake eater tried to use it. It is never about how he made you feel in bed, and always about how he made you feel in your head. That is the broken part in which you betrayed your family, husband, life, and your self. "Just sex" is not only an excuse it is a lame attempt at minimizing also.

Imagine showing that energy and drive and those buttons to your husband. In fact the OM's only job was to push those buttons and flirt, say sexy things, he never had to deal with realities of life like kids, jobs, responsibilities, sickness, all he had to do is prep and fuel your sex drive throw on some good clothes and let you do the rest in your mind.

He didn't even have to be around 24/7 only when you needed it. His only job was to be that dildo you could project onto.

My goal is not to hit you with a 2x4 I am just what to pose questions for you to ask yourself. Just trying to help here.

We know them inside and out. And we hate them. A little bit from jealousy and insecurity, but also from strength and confidence. Loyal men define their character against such men as your AP, as being not like them. Our life is a refutation and rejection of them. That you chose such a man is--really, really devastating.

^^^there is a lot there. Owl is really tapping into a dynamic that exists among men.

Sneaker, there is always someone smarter, better looking, nicer, more this and this. And that includes that yes there are men better in bed than you and me. I give credence to what the original poster said.

Question for original poster: Has you husband ever had sex with another woman? Or are you his only sexual experience ?

I know that I have done this to myself but now I am left with no other thing that my willingness to fight for my husband and my family and to give them if they accept me what I have deprived them for the last 22 months (a honest, humble and loving wife and mother).

You are going to fail even before you start. What? Go back to the honest, humble, loving wife and mother you were before the affair? The one that was broken because you had no self worth or value that chose to believe cheating would fix what you were missing. Yes, you need to change. Not for them. For you. To make you whole and safe for anyone. Going back to the unhappy person you were is only going to drive you down this road again with the next gym guy that flirts and teases with you. What can you do to find value in yourself? What can you do to make yourself proud of yourself? You have other choices. To change for yourself. Not for other people. They will benefit from the change, but if you are doing it for them. There will come a time you will take them for granted again and that change will never stand.

Focus on what Sneaker stated. You just contradicted yourself. Claiming it was just sex. But before you mentioned

when I found out the reactions OM could get from my body it became much more about the sex

This is emotional

the validation and the thrill was much more important than the sex at the beginning...

The validation. Feeling important. This is the tip of your reasons. Admit these to your husband. Stop claiming it is just sex or you will loose him. He knows you are lying. Maybe lying to yourself (but he sees this) and who would ever trust or want to R with someone that can't even tell themselves the truth.?

These seem like 2x4 but they are points for you to consider before it is too late not only change yourself but hopefully keep your marriage. You aren't the first wayward to come here claiming it was just sex and find out you were off the mark. You may have told yourself that to justify continuing the affair. But, you said it already. That wasn't how it started. How it started is what matters. Besides before the sex started there was flirting, teasing, talking, getting to know the OM so you felt safe enough to have sex with him. If my wife fucked some man, I would focus on how she got to that point. Just like she focused on what happened for months before I invited my AP into our bed.

I know you are from Spain , correct ?

What is the culture/ thought about a man being cheated on by his wife?

Will he have understanding and acceptance among his peers if you R.

I know in some cultures being cheated on is looked at as being unmanned and a huge social stigma.

Well, Sneaker very well addressed pretty much the same thing I noticed in your response.

I didn't go into the affair because I felt dissatisfied with my sex life. While the affair was just sex, the validation and the thrill was much more important than the sex at the beginning... when I found out the reactions OM could get from my body it became much more about the sex and much less about the validation and the ego boost.

There's more to it that I see though.

when I found out the reactions OM could get from my body

It's not the worthless OM who "could get" a reaction from you as though he had a unique magic dick that resonated uniquely with you.

It's how YOU felt and the reaction YOU could get because you totally absolved the OM of any and all responsibility, morality, decency, dignity, and especially resentment for your perceived "lost" youth while having sex with him.

And, you could have done that with anyone else - there was nothing particular about this OM, he was just willing to fuck married mothers (regardless of deep emotional pain to her children).

You left all that attitude and baggage for your husband to bear while you were having sex with him.

Gee, wonder why you never could orgasm with him that way?

The burden of your lack of O's rests with your viewing your husband not as a romantic figure, but rather as someone to blame for your selfish desire to recapture some ridiculous notion of your youth.

In my previous post, there was an unanswered question regarding what you value.

What do you value?

What means anything to you?

REALLY means anything to you?

Did you value your family?

Did you value your children?

Did you value your integrity?

Did you value the life you had and what would have been ultimately a beautiful story?

When you are on your deathbed, are you going to look back on your life and think of the worthless gym instructor with the magic dick?

Or, are you going to look back and think about raising your children to be strong, independent men who will be your honorable legacy?

Are you going to think about being fortunate enough to have seen through the trials and tribulations of life with a man who was honest, faithful, stood with you, was a rock for your children, and, with some honest communication, been your greatest sexual outlet?

What really means anything to you?

I hope your husband is a far better man than me.

He appears to be a man of strength and honor.

Strength doesn't have to be in the form of a buff, muscled gym instructor.

Believe me, your OM is a weak-minded, weak-willed piece of shit that would fuck your sister or mother if he thought he had a shot at it.

Wow, he helped cause deep emotional pain to young kids - good for him.

Your husband has strengths that your OM simply will never have and has no idea about.

Look at your husband for his great strengths, not as a scapegoat for you to blame for your weakness.

The safety of having the trust and loyalty of a man like that should allow you to be more sexually free with him than any other man.

[This message edited by keptmyword at 10:32 AM, December 12th (Monday)]

Also all loyal and respectful men know players. We know the bad boys, the cads, the men who use women. We have been sharing locker rooms and classrooms and workplaces and nightclubs with them all our lives. We know them inside and out. And we hate them. A little bit from jealousy and insecurity, but also from strength and confidence. Loyal men define their character against such men as your AP, as being not like them. Our life is a refutation and rejection of them. That you chose such a man is--really, really devastating.

Spot-on, Owl.

Said perfectly.

Keptmywordnailed it. From an OM, all I saw in my APs after the affair was over and the ego high fog lifted. =EASY. I didn't see them as a person. I can't tell you anything of real value about them-their wants, desires, likes, dislikes. All I know is what I knew about myself. EASY, pathetic, weak, willing to do anything for attention and to feel wanted. Probably willing to do what they normally wouldn't do because they were so needy. Carefree? Really equals immaturity, irresponsible, and ungrateful. You wanted to feel desired and wanted and you fucked everything over to get it from a man that used you like you used him. Focus on that.

The sex part is what destroys a BH. Women do not get how emasculating that is. I'm an MH. When my wife told me of her RA, the first reaction was to walk calmly into the kitchen and return with an SOS pad. I told her that my dick would never be inside her diseased hole ever again. And I suggested that she scrub it out with an SOS pad. I then left. My intentions were to divorce her immediately. I told her that her revenge had worked. I wanted nothing more to do with her. Then her BFF called me for a date and told me that she had set the whole thing up and had convinced my BW to get even. Interesting. So I decided to blow up everyone's world. Within 24 hours BFF, AP and the wife were all unemployed. She cursed me. She could not go to her parents for rent money as they would question how she lost the job. She found out that I was not quite the bastard that got her fired when I turned over my paycheck every week until she found a new job, and then I gave her half thereafter.

It has been an strange day, It started well, I went to work in our business today and my husband came along to help me to get used again to the nuances of the day to day. It has changed quite a lot since I used to do it, specially because we have now 3 employees.

We went together for lunch and talked about the children and the business but not further dept in our conversation, I was afraid but at the same time hoping he would start speaking about the affair at any given time but he didn't. We just had lunch and worked like two colleagues.

When we finished the day he told me that he was going to go for dinner to his brother's and that once our kids will go to their sports (today they both go to train soccer) we should talk about us.

I am waiting for him to come home and I am very nervous, I am waiting that at anytime he will tell me that he want to divorce. I guess later today or tomorrow I will be able to let you know more.

Owl Thank you. I agree with you in most of what you say. I need to work on being humble although it doesn't come naturally to me, it is not in my character.

I never thought how my husband would think about my choice for AP because I never thought he would eventually to find out. When you are in an affair you don't think too much about this and you are right that it may play a role in the capacity of my husband to move pass what I have done if he even want to.

Sneaker It was not about what reaction he had... I could care less about his reaction, it was all about how he made me react (and I mean in the physical way... pleasure).

And I agree that if my husband would have been given the opportunity to touch those buttons he may have come to the same outcome, the fact is that given our inexperience we didn't even know what buttons to touch.

I understand you mean well, no problem, I can take some tough love as long as it comes in form of advise and not judgement is welcome.

Redhorse My husband was my first and only (till the affair) and I am his one and only. I realise that if he could not touch the right buttons I have myself to blame because I am the only teacher he ever had. My husband is even one of those strange men who doesn't even watch porn.

Zugswang I don't contradict myself, I am speaking about the physical reactions he could get from my body (meaning pleasure). What part of that doesn't match with being only sex.

By the way, it is very possible that you would see those women you would have extramarital sex with as easy, I completely believe you because I thought the same way about the OM. He was just easy, it would not hurt me that he thought the same about me (actually I wasn't indeed difficult). You are saying this as it should be an offence just because I am a woman but do you really think you were any more difficult for your OW? Maybe is something you should focus on?

Affair sex is easy... you don't need to be a great man/woman to do it, you need to be a great man/woman not to do it.

Scarlett12 Yes, I am Spanish and over here if he would have exposed me outside of my family I am sure he would have been more difficult to reconcile. Manhood is very important in our culture but my husband isn't the kind of guy who really let peer pressure make decisions for him.

keptmyword I thought yours were rhetoric questions but if you would like me to answer I do hold of highers importance my family, my integrity and my children, one can act against what loves the most because we are humans, not machines. I am sure in a given moment my prioritisation compass was totally screwed, add to that the silly idea that you won't be caught and then you have someone who things that can have his cake and eat is as well. That was me.

In regards of your comment about the AP unique magic dick... he only had more experience to account for and the thrill and excitement... he is nothing special indeed...which is quite sad.

[This message edited by homealone123 at 1:42 PM, December 12th (Monday)]

Advice from me a BS.

Your husband needs to know EVERYTHING. If you have minimized anything or are hiding another OM(s) you need to get it all out now. A BS will eventually find out. Our gut will drive us crazy until we feel like we have the truth. If you are still hiding anything you BH will find out. So get it out now while he is still in shock. The full truth is the only fix here. The worst part for me and most others here is finding out a little bit at a time.

My husband was my first and only (till the affair) and I am his one and only.

^^^that is going to be tough to overcome. There was a shared, created meaning in being each others only lover. That exclusivity made it special. It is also a meaning that many folks emotionally invest in, in times good and bad. So, yes you have a much bigger LOSS on your hands. Like a death. I sincerely wish you well and healing. Based on what I see from you, you will be ok in the long run.

You lose a lot of (if not all) respect for your spouse when they cheat. My wife and I are through with the marriage now, its over, but I still don't want to look at her or see her. She is just a mirror of pain for me and I don't want that in my life. I resent her more for turning me into a part time dad. What goes unrealized, is when a spouse cheat, they also cheat on their kids too, since they always feel the impact as well.

It doesn't matter one bit if it was just for sex, that almost makes it worse. You threw away your family for some cheap thrills. It is emasculating for a man. The fact it was a prolonged affair even adds more to the pain, since it was premeditated and went on for so long until you were busted.

What he said about how you look like his wife, but his wife is dead and a stranger is occupying her body rings true. His wife was someone that would have never lept into bed with another man, because she was someone he trusted with his life. Now that is gone forever and it will never go away. His wife being dead helps him detach emotionally from the source of his pain.

The only reason he is probably not divorcing you yet, is because his family is that important to him and he is torn whether he wants to end that forever. It sounds like he wants to divorce you but he doesn't want to be the one to pull the trigger. That is understandable.

[This message edited by Randy1133 at 2:21 PM, December 12th (Monday)]

You've been getting great advice but I also think you need to consider this. IF your BH should want to stay in the marriage, and you decide you want to stay in the marriage, don't stay in the marriage "for the kids" as your only reason. Yes it's good to consider the kids in your final decisions, but that can't be the only reason.

My father stayed with my mother "for the kids". That was a much worse decision than if they had just went through with a divorce (which then happened six years later anyway). The environment we group up in was toxic. They *thought* they were keeping their situation behind closed doors, not arguing in front of the kids, etc. What they failed to notice is that they were both self absorbed with the situation and each other that they failed to see what was going on with us kids. We knew everything that was going on in that house. It's tough to live with people and not know or see what was going on. Often times its the unspoken stuff that's going on that is more noticeable than you think.

I watched my father become a shell of himself and the betrayal got deeper as he betrayed himself by staying. He used whistle and tell jokes. That stopped and never returned after dday. I could see the emasculation on my father, the looks of hate combined with hearing the hysterical bonding, not treating each other nicely, no trust, and yet sometimes going over the top to make up for whatever they were trying to make up for. And those are just some of the things we could see never mind hear the abusive language to each other behind closed doors. All very confusing to kids. All painful as well.

My point being is that unless you both can work on yourselves and make sure that the household environment is not toxic, then better to separate and have two separate homes that have potential to be better for your kids rather than living in one miserable house. If your BH's only reason is to stay for the kids, better to get out and divorce. With so much pain, it's easy to become self absorbed and lose track of what's going on around you. Even worse passing issues on to your kids. Very easy to lose track of the kids in a toxic environment. My brother did not survive that environment and I'm still paying for it to this day.

Something you should consider.

yop

Very few men end up with their first love. The role models men are offered by other men do not make that easy. Men talk among themselves, and posture, and part of that posturing is about sexual success or serial sexual experience. A man who is loyal to his first armors himself against that by taking all the more pride in what he has with her. He tells himself that what he has is something rare, and special, and it sets him apart.

Unfortunately you have given away his special. You have signaled that what he valued as his treasure was your burden, your prison, and ultimately your trash to be thrown away.

Also all loyal and respectful men know players. We know the bad boys, the cads, the men who use women. We have been sharing locker rooms and classrooms and workplaces and nightclubs with them all our lives. We know them inside and out. And we hate them. A little bit from jealousy and insecurity, but also from strength and confidence. Loyal men define their character against such men as your AP, as being not like them. Our life is a refutation and rejection of them. That you chose such a man is--really, really devastating.

Your husband is going to hate your affair partner. And he is likely to loose respect for you in a way he will not find it easy to regain, no matter who you have been, who you are, and who you became. You rejected your husband's life story about himself, his statement to the world of men of what it means to be a strong man. I know you didn't mean to. But you did, even if you didn't mean to.

Holy smokes this is what I feel.

My Wayward Wife was my one and only and I was hers. I felt so special, so holy. I cherished our specialness.

I am trying to reconcile and I am in agony often. Every time I have sex with my wife I think of the OM. I think of the OM and their affair multiple times a day. Your have put your husband in a special place in hell.

This is how I am at three years out. Your husband is at a few weeks or months? If he does try to reconcile, please realize he will be swallowing his pride and it will burn for months and years.

My wife also had great resentment for me. She would not have sex with me for months some times. Why? Because she was so resentful and it held her back. Now that she has had her revenge on me (many times over) she enjoys sex with me like never before. Why is that? Because she resented me.

I cannot overstate the agony your husband must be going through. I was there. I felt it too. I still feel it every day.

But, BUT, there is hope! Each week is better (not every day). The pain is slowly fading. I trust her again, mostly. She is showing appreciation and love that has been lacking for over a decade. Her resentment is gone and she is fixing things within herself that are long, long overdue.

If your husband I like me (and he seems to be)

1) read "How to help your spouse heal from your affair"

2) write him notes of how you realize how horrible you have been

3) If you don't have religion, get some, NOW. It will be a source of strength and guidance. It will help him if he joins you overcome the damage.

4) Go to IC. MC is for improving the marriage with both partners. This is not what he should hear right now. You go to IC to fix you. He goes to IC to recover his sanity and overcome is agony. If he is still with you, MC can start in a year or two.

My WW and I are going to make it. She did EVERYTHING wrong, including going back into the affair again and even asking my daughter to cover for her affair. It can be done. You and he can do it. But you have to give 100% to honesty, working on yourself, respecting and honoring him, and showing remorse.

Ps. I think the O with the OM was because of the illicitness of the affair, not from your husband's lack of sexual prowess.

(((Homealone)))

What part of that doesn't match with being only sex.

Your comments in your posts don't match with this

the validation and the thrill was much more important than the sex at the beginning...

This isn't about sex. This is an emotional thing. This is what it started as and with. This is what you should focus on but you aren't. All you want to focus on is that it was just "sex" and your physical body responding to him. Why you started is going to be what matters to your husband. But you continue to gloss over it to focus on it just being "sex" and meaning nothing.

You are saying this as it should be an offence just because I am a woman but do you really think you were any more difficult for your OW? Maybe is something you should focus on?

Nice try at deflecting. But I already posted that. I already know I was easy. Owned my shit a long time ago. See my previous post.

All I know is what I knew about myself. EASY, pathetic, weak, willing to do anything for attention and to feel wanted.

I bring it up not to focus on you being a woman and you should take offense. I bring it up because you don't see what your husband was worth. What you were worth to your husband. What mattered to you was how your AP desired you, when all that time you had your husband. Just like was stated by a previous poster. Your husband wanted you, wanted to be married to you even when faced with the reality of real life. As opposed to the OM only wanting you in fantasy world.

Affair sex is easy... you don't need to be a great man/woman to do it, you need to be a great man/woman not to do it.

Exactly. Which is why your AP was nothing compared to your husband. Everyone is just giving you reasons to stop resenting your husband.

You lose a lot of (if not all) respect for your spouse when they cheat.

I bring it up because of this. What another posted stated so eloquently. You will lose respect from your spouse like I did for being that easy. BE prepared.

I do hold of highers importance my family, my integrity and my children, one can act against what loves the most because we are humans, not machines.

No we don't. And with the attitude like that (you are only human) you aren't going to get very far. You had a choice, you act against what you claim you love because you are self serving. Selfish. Cruel. Entitled. This is what a wayward is. Not "just human". We are all humans. To be flippant about being "only human" is blameshifting. Just like saying "it was only sex". If you valued those things, you wouldn't have cheated. You have to face who you were.

I am sure in a given moment my prioritisation compass was totally screwed, add to that the silly idea that you won't be caught and then you have someone who things that can have his cake and eat is as well.

A given moment? How many months of given moments? Bullshit on this too. Silly idea that you won't get caught. Integrity is about doing the right thing behind closed doors regardless of if you would or would not be caught. Not about doing the right thing because there on consequences. Maybe you don't know what integrity is? What you are describing is not an accident. Or certain things just fall into place and now you become bad. It is deliberate choices based on immaturity, ungratefulness, entitlement, selfishness, and being self absorbed. Not, "I am only human not a machine". So, the people that make good choices are machines?

It is tough to read and tougher to accept, but Zugzwang hit just about every point on the mark. Until a WS fully embraces that the reason for every decision they made comes down their ungratefulness, entitlement, selfish, self absorbed, manipulating, lying, total breakdown of character, then no way there will be progress.

My WW had what was a year and a half "only about sex" affair and I can assure you it was not about sex it was about her self absorbed desire/need to take control. She had convinced herself that, not just me, but almost everyone else in her life was responsible for making her feel like she had to do what others expected of her. The irony is that she mostly was just angry about the thought of doing what others expected, but she rarely actually did what she thought others expected. My WW said almost the exact same words that you are saying about yourself. It was only about sex. She compartmentalized because she was sure I would never find out. She did not want to lose her family she just wanted to live a freedom that she never had an opportunity to have (I was her first and only from an early age). When she would say it was only about sex, it would almost always be followed by a discussion of how she didn't feel wanted, and didn't feel in control, and didn't feel desirable.......that is a whole lot of "feeling" for not being about feelings.

I can assure you that the issues and problems are much deeper in you than a moment of human frailty and a few bad decisions. You didn't make bad decisions, you made a life style and personality choice. You may have legitimate reasons to have been very frustrated, even angry, with your husband prior and during your affair, but guess what, welcome to the world of just about everyone that is married.

You did hit the nail on the head with one of your points, you wanted attention and to feel wanted. You wanted to FEEL wanted and having sex was the way that you temporarily satisfied that want. The sex was good but the push to go back over and over was tied to the need to FEEL something. You had your first encounter with the OM not for the sex, because you had not idea how good or bad it would be. The thing that compelled you to do it the first time was the same thing that kept you coming back every other time. Of course the sex was good. I would bet my house and all that I own that sex with the neighbors wife, with no strings attached, and the ability to compartmentalize it away would be fantastic.

There is no comparison between the thrill of illicit sex and sex with your spouse, with a mortgage, and responsibilities, and children, and work and real life's crap. Of course sex was great. But the sex was the delivery mechanism to satisfy the the self absorbed, I have a right to feel wanted and desired character trait that you fully embraced.

My wife used to talk about being human and the bad decision that she made. A bad decision is buying a sporty car when you really should have bought a sedan. You pay for it later, but it is not a deal breaker. Having sex over and over, lying and manipulating to make it happen...these things are not bad decisions, they are the kind of choices made by those that have embraced an "it's all about me" character. They are not accidents of decisions, they are calculated, purposeful, well thought out choices with full awareness of what the outcome of those choices could be if the truth comes crashing down. An affair is not a bad decision or a moment of being human. It is a toxic character trait.

All that being said, there is hope. It will be very difficult. Your husband may find a way to offer you an opportunity to repair the damage. I hope this path is possible for you. I think most marriages can be mended after an affair. But there is no hope for it as long as a WW doesn't fully embrace that they have rationalized ways to feel comfortable with broken character; that it is not about what the spouse or anyone else in their life did to them. A WS has to fully embrace that they made unconscionable decisions that put everyone in their family in danger of trauma and great hardship. That is not a bad decision, that is a deeply flawed moral compass that can only be fixed with naked honesty by the WS.

Don't get me wrong, illicit sex has got to be great. But that isn't the basis for total collapse of character.

[This message edited by DIFM at 4:26 AM, December 13th (Tuesday)]

I am exhausted, my husband came yesterday and told me that he still doesn't know if he can forgive me or not but he is going to try. He told me that he is not doing it for the kids of for me but for himself,he explained me that when he loves he does it unconditionally and he could not explain to himself to give up without trying. He told me he hoped I didn't take it as he being weak for trying to reconcile because at this moment divorcing me looked to him a much easier option than trying reconciling. ( I sensed that he was very afraid that I would take him for a weak character for reconciling me after what I have done, I know how much he has had to eat his pride to do this and if anything he is just stronger in my eyes)

He also told me that trying was the key word, he has already a draft of the divorce papers (he saw them to me) and that if he feels I am not trying hard enough he will file, if he feels I have seen the OM even when it is at the other side of the street and I haven't tell him then he will file, if he ask for a detail and he feels that I am lying or not being completely honest he will file. He also told me that even if I do everything correctly he reserves the right to file for divorce if he feels he can't heal well or if he thinks that he will never be able to trust me and feel safe with me.

He let clear that this is a second opportunity and there will be not a third one.

He has already booked both of us for MC and IC for himself. He didn't want to have any detail at the moment, he prefer to ask his questions at MC because he doesn't know how he will react to those details and prefer to do it when someone else is helping us.

When the children arrived my husband asked them to go to sleep at his brother's house, he was already counting with them and that we needed to talk.

When the children left we actually talked a little more and ended up having sex. After having sex he started to cry like if he was in a terrible agony (it got me very scared because I didn't expect it), I have never seen him like this, not even when he lost his parents in a car accident... I tried to comfort him but he pushed me away and left the room and went to sleep to one of the spare rooms in the house.

I could not sleep the rest of the night, I felt very bad and I was awake because I know he was feeling even worse and that was killing me inside.

In the morning we ate our breakfast in silence and then he asked me for how long I had the affair, I told him and he was directly in shock. He begun then to speak to all the important moments and events during the time of my affair (Our holidays in Greece, a weekend in Bilbao, etc). he asked me if all of it was just a lie because while we were building all those memories I was deceiving him. Then he cried again and told me that he didn't know if he could do it, he want to try but he doesn't know if he will be able to go through all the pain.

He asked me to never tell him I love him anymore until he says that I can, he only wants to see acts from now on. He also told me that he didn't want to hear how sorry I am, he doesn't care how sorry I am, me being sorry doesn't help him, he said and repeated that only my actions count and I better make good choices from now because he can't take anything else that what he is taking already.

Then he left and told me we will see each other at MC.

He didn't ask how many times I was with the OM so I think he believes I have been having sex non stop with the OM, should I tell him that it has been 17 times in total or shall I wait till he ask?

I have to run to MC now , I will give you an update and answer your post later.

Is normal to have sex so early after dday? Is normal that after sex he cried? I am so confused.

1. Your husband is an incredibly strong man with a strong character. I admire him.

2. You ask "Is normal to have sex so early after dday? Is normal that after sex he cried? I am so confused."

A. Normal to have sex"- some do, some don't. And even among those who do there are many kinds of sex. Some speak of a phase of "hysterical bonding," which you can Google for more info. This sounds more like love mixed with grief than classic HB.

B. "Is normal that after sex he cried? I am so confused."

This is a lovely opportunity to work on empathy. You are learning that you have been a far more self-centered person than you ever admitted to yourself. That does not change overnight. It changes if you work on it. And the best way to work on it is to consciously practice empathy.

You ask why and is this normal and say you are confused. Instead try asking "what might I feel if I were in his shoes?" Think it through, HA123. Really, really think about it.

You are him. You just had sex for the first time with the love of your life who has always been your special one and only and you hers. And you are lying next to her now, for the first time in your life, knowing she is all you have ever know but you are just one of two for her. What do you think you would be thinking? What feelings do you think you would be feeling?

Really think about it for a long time. Let one thought lead to another and another. Then ask yourself if you are really still confused that he curled up in anguish.

how did YOU feel during the sex? you have been given a gift, OP.