SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I have read many of the posts here, and I really appreciate the support to each other that I see. I am going to relay a very painful situation that I am currently going through, and please, do not counsel me on the mistakes I made - I made a lot of mistakes when I "found out" - I placed a recorder and I told my wife I did - after which she freaked out and destroyed the recorder. I know I should not have told her I had the recorder - please understand that in the emotional atmosphere we don't always think correctly, so please, I know I should not have told her, so please no counsel that starts with "you should not have" (or any variation thereto) But, here goes:

I am an attorney - I want that to be clear. I am married to a "10" - she is VERY sexy, very curvaceous, but also very flirty and open with others. I must admit, I love her personality - I don't mind her open nature - I just never assumed it would go further than that. At my firm, I had a boss that was a great guy (or so I thought). He was also my best friend, and he and his wife often hung out with me and my wife. It started to get weird, however, about a month ago - I would come to work and my boss would ask me about something personal that he knew about - just little things that I never mentioned to him, so I had no idea how he would know. Something in my heart kind of bothered me, so I checked out our phone bill and saw my boss's mobile and office number to and from my wife a few times, and another unknown number that appeared literally hundreds of times - that occurred right after I left for work, and right before I came home (which I later found out WAS my boss's second cell phone number...). So one evening I approached my wife about why my boss and her were communicating. She immediately got very upset and called me a creep for checking the phone bill, and said there was only a few calls about my work and so I believed her, but I also asked about that other unknown number and she again was very defensive and she told me that it was her cousin who she loves talking to, so I believed her, but we still had a bad argument and I will admit I was very angry and I said things I should not have during that argument. We got over the argument, and over the next few weeks I noticed that my wife was VERY protective over her phone - she would not let it near me, she was coming home later than usual and acting differently, my boss was saying things that he would not know unless my wife told him, and my wife would say things about my work that she would not know unless someone told her - I even placed some mis-information to see if it got through - and indeed it did, so I was certain there something going on. That, coupled with my heart just "knowing" something was going on, I decided to get to the bottom of it. I made the decision to purchase a digital recorder and to place it in my wife's car. Now, I know that is illegal - I'm an attorney - but I also know that no district attorney in my jurisdiction ever prosecuted that particular law if "infidelity" was the underlying motivation. So, one day when my wife said she was going out with "friends" I quietly and quickly turned on the recorder and placed it. I was home taking care of the kids - my wife never came home that day and she ended up "unexpectedly" staying the night with her "friend." I thought nothing of it and I respect my wife's desire to go out with friends and have a good time. But the next day when she got back, I greeted her and hugged her and I quickly grabbed the recorder without her seeing, which had since stopped because the batteries died. I went into a room and started listening to it - and my worst fears were confirmed - she was talking to my boss (and yes, he was also my best friend) - they were discussing explicit sexual acts they engaged in, and wanted to engage in, they sincerely told each other they loved each other, they spoke about how to lie to me if I asked too many questions, they talked about meeting others for sex, and well, you get the idea. Nothing happened in the car as far as I could tell, but I heard their conversations. I was (and am) horribly terrified and broken. I decided to write down my thoughts rather than just openly confront her - I wanted to ensure that I didn't speak with emotion but rather with reason. My first line of my letter was "I want you to know that I love you and I forgive you, but I know that you are sleeping with my boss." When I read this to her, I was (stupidly) holding the recorder and I played some of the worst parts - she grabbed the recorder and of course destroyed it, called me a horrible creep for violating her privacy, then ran off and called my boss to "warn" him that "I know." I felt horrible -I felt like the creep she said I was. Eventually, she came around and apologized, but she said that all of it was just "a fantasy" and nothing physical ever happened, but rather they were deep in "fantasy talk." I also found out they were sending each other hard porn, and they even met together on several occasions. But, she swears that nothing happened physically even though on the recorder I heard them talk about the sex they "just had" and how hot it was, and other details. We have had some horrible arguments about this since then - she tells me I deserve the pain I'm feeling, that I pushed her into his arms because of how horrible I have been over the years to her, that I'm crazy, a creep, that she is taking revenge on how horrible of a person I am, and that I'm just jealous and paranoid. During times of peace, though, she told me that my boss told her that he knew if they got caught, he would get fired from his job (he was fired by the way - I went to HR about this), and my wife told me that she told him that if they got caught, "there would be no consequence because my husband loves me too much to divorce me." When she told me that was her mindset, I must admit, she's right. I love her so much that I would never initiate a divorce, but it truly broke my heart because I feel she took advantage of that fact. To this day we still argue about it, and she still swears to God that nothing physical happened, and that things I have done in the past far outweigh what she did.

I don't know what to think right now. She is very convincing that nothing happened physically, but in my heart I know something happened. My heart is so shattered but when I bring it up, she smashes me with MY past, and says I'm just jealous and paranoid and a creep. I have been working with a therapist to get through this, but right now our marriage is hanging by a thread - I don't want a divorce but I think she does, and she does want to inflict as much pain as possible on me. I will admit that I have mistreated her verbally in the past and have done stupid things, but never as far as infidelity. We all have our demons, I know. She wants me to feel guilty about those things forever, and to forget what happened with her and my boss (which again, she says "nothing" happened). Should I let this go? Should I demand more answers? I mean almost nothing she discusses matches with what I heard - she contradicts what I heard on the recorder and she says she owes me "no explanation" of what I heard and that I need to just drop it. That angers me, so I bring up things that hurt me - that she, a sexy beautiful woman, regularly sent hard porn to another man and discussed sexually explicit things. Should I believe her that nothing physical happened? Should I drop it? Please help, and again, please don't criticize - I don't need that right now. There are a thousand things I could have done better in regard to this, but I did what I did. Please, my heart is shattered enough - just help, don't criticize. Thank you.

Hi, welcome to SI. So glad you found us, so sorry you are here.

I will be direct: Your wife had sex with your boss. Your gut is screaming, trust it. Have you asked her to take a polygraph?

Understand cheaters lie, deny, minimize, gaslight, and a BIGGIE is blameshift, which, it seems, she is masterful at.

Whatever your past history is, there is never any justification for cheating. If she was miserable, she had the option to separate, seek counseling, try to communicate better.

Please do not sweep her affair under the rug.

Infidelity causes trauma, it's one heck of an emotional roller coaster ride, do not let this go. It will only eat at your soul.

Both of you need to get tested for STDS. Meet with your MD for some temporary meds if you are having difficulty coping/sleeping, etc. Take care of yourself as best as you can, exercise, stay hydrated, try to eat.

Keep in mind, she owns her own actions. Period. Don't accept blame for her devastating choices.

BTW, does your boss' wife know what's going on? If not, she needs to be told bc her health might be at risk.

[This message edited by annb at 4:29 PM, March 16th (Thursday)]

TYG... trust you gut. Oh, don't forget about the blatant evidence on the recorder.

Nice job at getting the partner, or sr. assoc., fired. Kudos to you for that.

I don't believe that you got the full story. We rarely get the full story right away. Too often the waywards will withhold details in failed attempts to either protect you or themselves. Check out the Healing library and take care of yourself at this time. She is being abusive and not a good candidate for Reconciliation right now. You need to make a stronger stand or you may just extend your suffering. Keep reading and encourage your spouse to read about how she can help you heal. I should have been stronger right away and because I wasn't I made it worse for myself.

"I love her so much that I would never initiate a divorce,..."

So what you are saying is that she can do anything she wants and you will accept it?

Great people here will start giving you advise soon. How can they help you empower yourself when you start out by putting yourself in the weakest possible position?

This is going to be a hard journey but one you need to take. People here have seen it all. Your PRIORITY is to get out of infidelity first.

You have the ability to come out of this much better and stronger. Listen to those that have been there, they will guide you well.

Your wife is gas-lighting & shifting the blame for her cheating onto you. Every marriage has problems and no spouse is perfect but nothing gives either one the "right" to cheat.

You sound as though you are suffering terribly but it's also clear you are not going to do anything about it other than whine to your counselor and to us on this forum. You really should let us know if you are fed up with your life & marriage and willing to try to change or just looking for a miracle.

I REALLY appreciate the advice and support here. You are absolutely right - am I just going to "whine" or am I going to do something about it. And also, I know that I should not be such a "push over" all because I love her so much. I WILL take some action - I'll admit yes, I am suffering terribly right now in my heart, so when I figure out what I need to do, I will relay that. I mean, it's easy to say "divorce" or "separation" but in my heart I do want this marriage to work. Infidelity doesn't always mean divorce, so I am going to figure out how to be a man, take a strong stance, and perhaps give an ultimatum so we may be able to save the marriage. Thanks so much, everybody!

Lawman

I believe that your wife see's you as weak and believes she can walk all over you. you need to read "No more mr nice guy" in the media library.

If I were you I would instigate the 180 straight away, get divorce papers written up and get her served with them. Her reaction will give you the information you need as to whether or not your marriage is saveable and if R is even possible.

You need to be strong and show her your not fucking about and will not tolerate her betrayal.

Take emotion out of it. Start thinking like an attorney not husband.

Unfortunately stories like yours are a dime a dozen.

You have some choices:

1) you can decide that this has crossed your boundaries too much for you to continue, and you can proceed with divorce.

2) you can accept being a cuckold, sweep it under the rug, pretend your wife never slept with this guy, and go from there. Maybe that works for you. Maybe you can live like that.

3) you can attempt reconciliation. This will *only* work if you establish your boundaries and expectations and enforce them, *AND* if your wife is 150% ready and willing to do everything it will take to help you and your marriage heal. If she's not (and it doesn't sound like she is), you won't really be reconciling, you'll just be doing #2.

It's a lot to take in early on, but soooooo many of us have been where you are right now. These are your three options.

So...what do you want to do?

Polygraph. Only that will tell you if she's lying.

I am genuinely confused. Why do you want to remain married to someone who believes you are a creep and who wants to get revenge on you for things you have done in the past?

I get wanting to stay married to someone who has committed infidelity and regrets having hurt you. I do not get wanting to stay married to someone who belittles you, disrespects you, indicates that they have a low opinion of you, lies to you, and revels in hurting you.

I just don't understand. At all.

If it were me, I would have her served with divorce papers. If that shocked her into treating me in a kind, loving way, then I might consider holding off on going through with the divorce while we worked on things. But I would not be willing to be married to the person you are describing, EVEN IF for some reason I still loved her.

I'm sorry this happened to you, but there is no doubt in my mind they were physical. Your wife essentially admitted as much when she said you drove her into his arms. Right? Perhaps because she saw how mad it made you she started to worry you might divorce her ass. So, then she decides to be coy (did they or didn't they), and blame shift to you for being "creepy". I'd love to hear her explanation of why catching her in an affair is creepy, but having an affair is not creepy. Fucking WS logic at its finest.

[This message edited by Sanibelredfish at 5:21 PM, March 16th (Thursday)]

Eventually, she came around and apologized, but she said that all of it was just "a fantasy" and nothing physical ever happened, but rather they were deep in "fantasy talk." I also found out they were sending each other hard porn, and they even met together on several occasions. But, she swears that nothing happened physically even though on the recorder I heard them talk about the sex they "just had" and how hot it was, and other details.

Please help, and again, please don't criticize - I don't need that right now. There are a thousand things I could have done better in regard to this, but I did what I did. Please, my heart is shattered enough - just help, don't criticize. Thank you.

lawman1,

Please don't take this as a criticism but credulity and frailty are fatal flaws when it comes to recovering from infidelity.

I suggest you read "No More Mister Nice Guy!" by Robert Glover (you can download it for free here: https://7chan.org/lit/src/Robert_Glover_-_No_More_Mr_Nice_Guy.pdf) and "The Married Man Sex Life Primer 2011" by Athol Kay (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004W0IRQ8?tag=viglink21103-20). The first will help you overcome your emotional dependence on your WW and the second teach you how to win the love and respect of women.

However, even if you do overcome your emotional dependence on her and learn how to present yourself in an attractive manner to women, you will not win your WW back. She has demonstrated a total lack of respect for you, disdain even. There is no coming back from that.

Good luck.

[This message edited by Alchemy at 5:51 PM, March 16th (Thursday)]

I handled things wrong in the beginning, too. You know what it did? It allowed my husband and his skanky whore to get ahead of me, to concoct a story about how I am a lunatic, so when I tried to expose, OBS refused all contact. Then, they knew how I caught them, so they took the affair underground for the next 4 years. 4 years! My husband also denied, denied, denied, until I tricked him into admitting having sex with her. But then it was "just twice". Right.

My advice to you is to act like everything is normal. Let her relax, and go into deep investigative mode. I guarantee you that they have gone underground.

I am so sorry you are here.

[This message edited by mharris at 6:04 PM, March 16th (Thursday)]

This may be the hardest ordeal you ever survive... big hugs... I just posted the following on my thread but wanted to share my mistakes with you... with hindsight and the benefit of reading thousands (literally) of stories here on SI over the past six years ... I wanted to share the following:

1). Do not believe that your wayward spouse is different. Early after D-Day, my mom told me if there were one in a million spouses who could still be innocent despite hundreds of red flags, my DH would be him. Ahem, he was not.

This was so out of character for him... it was too easy to try to ignore all the red flags and contradictions.

My mom wanted to believe in him as much as I did. His swearing on our children's lives convinced both of us... It was all lies.

2) The betrayed spouse has a very limited window of "power" or the upper hand immediately after discovery. Use it. Demand the truth. Do not settle for anything less. Until every Spidey sense you have is quieted.... Use this window to demand boundaries and lay down the law for what YOU need for reconciliation. Do not believe for one second that anything you've done caused this betrayal.

My WS had caught me smoking awhile before his affair. Did he use this betrayal to justify his actions? sure, you betcha. But it still doesn't even remotely compare to infidelity or the pain suffered even years later.

Do not engage in discussions about anything you did wrong... Do not be distracted. Do not allow them to make this about you. If they do the work and you offer them the Gift of reconciling, there will be plenty of time then to discuss other problems or issues in the marriage.

3) Do not project your feelings onto your WS or even how you believe they are feeling based on your past knowledge of them, their character, their morals, empathy, or capacity to feel remorse.

There may be a few WS who actually feel badly immediately after their affair. But most WS simply feel regret for being caught and do not care. I repeat, your WS probably simply DOES NOT truly give a shit about your feelings right now.

My WS didn't want to talk about it. I stupidly excused this by saying to myself, "poor muffin, he feels sooooo guilty, he cannot face what he's done." This was how I would feel. This was how I wished he'd feel. This was NOT the case.

4) Your WAS will rewrite history and hold onto every sin you've ever committed (real or imagined) simply to justify their bad behavior. It does not make it true. Nor does it justify an affair of any sort.

5) I don't know if I believe in a "fog", but I do believe that shock and awe are the only chance a BS has to knock a cake eater or someone reserving you as plan B off their fence. You are the prize. Not an option in case their unicorn dies. Don't worry about "driving them into the AP's arms" with your tears, tantrums, demands, anger, heartache, unreasonableness... This is your only time to demand to be treated with respect. If you allow it, they will continue their wayward ways, maybe going underground or possibly to re-offend years later because they did not suffer any real consequences to provoke lasting changes in their wayward mindset.

6). Do not attempt the 180 to "get them back.". The 180 is to help you heal. To establish healthy boundaries. To insist that the WS do some heavy lifting to fix this mess they've caused. Sometimes it does knock a WS from the fence, but that is more because they realize their safety net is being removed. If you do not see CONCRETE actions that indicate true remorse and respect, Pull the plug!! Do not make excuses. Do not give them more time. Do not try to improve yourself to get them back.

Gosh, I've got so much more that I want to share about the gazillion mistakes I made through this mess... But I will end this simply by saying, you are supremely lucky to have found SI. Use their collective wisdom and hard earned advice. They have no horse in the race or ulterior motives. Well meaning friends, family and even counselors can give really fucked up advice. Trust the wise folks here first. They've lived it and seen it played out over 50,000 times. Sometimes in real time as BS are in the midst of discovery, confrontation, denial, etc.

Big hugs to everyone. This is just about the worst pain you will ever experience​. I wish you strength and solid healing

Similar situation the first time out- which is why we had a second time. I don't care how "hot" she is, she married you and her behavior is unacceptable.

My husband's first affair, I accepted the blame he placed on me and worked so hard to be the perfect wife. I went to a therapist, I lost weight, and I allowed him to lay it all on me while he did nothing. I also accepted his outrage at "invading his privacy" and allowed him to change passwords and keep his phone private.

Cue DDay two. Completely new affair. At this time, I am now the "perfect wife" who lets him go out, doesn't question or snoop, and makes sure to be available when he needs me. This affair, I stood up for myself. Of course, he balked at first. Who wouldn't when he had everything he wanted with no blow back? I told him he had choices to make and that his choices would dictate my choices. I insisted on transparency. I insisted on NC with the affair partner. I insisted on him telling me all details. And I insisted that he work on himself to figure out why he would cheat when he supposedly had everything he ever wanted here. I refused to accept any blame. He could have talked to me or divorced me. He knew exactly how devastated I would be if he cheated given my first go round and he chose to do it again anyway.

I was serious. I was more than ready to let him go if this was who he wanted to be and he knew it. And I am pretty awesome. I'm not a super model and I'm aware of that. But I'm attractive, intelligent, strong, and a great mother and friend. I am not easily replaced and certainly not equally replaced by some floozy. If he wanted the marriage, he had to be willing to work for it. And I knew that if I wanted the right marriage for me, I had to be willing to give up this one unless he was willing to do the work. I knew if he really loved me, he would do it. And if he wouldn't do it, he didn't love me enough and, therefore, I didn't want him.

That was almost seven years ago. Our marriage is better than it ever was. He did the work I asked. He accepted responsibility. He read "Not Just Friends" and came to understand how inappropriate his boundaries were. He is transparent and now has no issues with me having his passwords. And, mind you, I am the same way with him. They say "He who has nothing to hide, hides nothing." It's very true. I don't care what he looks at of mine because I'm not doing anything wrong. And vice versa. It feels like a true partnership- better than ever before.

Decide what you're worth. My thinking is that if you are willing to accept her excuses and objections, you need to work on how you value yourself. Because you definitely deserve better.

You said "Infidelity doesn't always mean divorce..."

Problem is it takes two for reconciliation, and for her to be remorseful she must be 100% transparent while taking responsibility for her vile actions.No matter how bad you want your marriage it takes both of you.

BUT Sordid summed it up perfectly, which makes me think she will be a hard one to have a successful reconciliation with.

I am genuinely confused. Why do you want to remain married to someone who believes you are a creep and who wants to get revenge on you for things you have done in the past?

I get wanting to stay married to someone who has committed infidelity and regrets having hurt you. I do not get wanting to stay married to someone who belittles you, disrespects you, indicates that they have a low opinion of you, lies to you, and revels in hurting you.

I just don't understand. At all.

If it were me, I would have her served with divorce papers. If that shocked her into treating me in a kind, loving way, then I might consider holding off on going through with the divorce while we worked on things. But I would not be willing to be married to the person you are describing, EVEN IF for some reason I still loved her.

[This message edited by RubixCubed at 7:04 PM, March 16th (Thursday)]

You are right, infidelity doesn't always mean divorce but staying together at any cost is worse than divorce for everyone. Keep this in mind as you prepare to dig in and put an end to this way of living.

For her to be screwing your boss seems as though it could be even more emasculating than cheating with some random dude. This is going to be a very long, very painful road no matter how you choose to proceed.

FWIW, I'm a very pro-R guy, but for all the reasons stated in previous posts, I'd want to know why you would consider staying with her even one more second.

Get yourself a bulldog divorce lawyer and get her out of your life ASAP.

Then get some good counseling before you bother with any more relationships.