SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Yes, you need more information to make an informed decision on how to proceed. I like Sharkman's suggestion to hire a PI.

I also understand why her sharing the letter bothers you; her explanation is really lame. If it were me, I would presume that she shared it to make fun of me with her AP. Obviously, I don't know that's the case, but that would be my gut feeling.

Lastly, I think you need to carefully and critically assess whether you are Plan B for your WW. Does her life become harder without you around? Does your life get harder or easier without her around? I'd wager I know the answers to both of those questions, and it shouldn't be you chasing her.

What do you want out of life? Is your WW helping you get those things or preventing you from them? Good luck!

It's tough to watch you flounder around. Your wife can find the other man's wife. Your wife must have studied the other man's wife. Your wife was in love for three years with the poor woman's husband. Just like other man knew all about you, the competition. He got the play-by-play of your sexual exploits, in writing no less, so he could out-do you. I don't know what your wife must be thinking about. She must see what you are trying to do and failing miserably - is she happy about that? I think so, she still loves other man, and probably I think must have warned you would be trying to contact other man's wife.

Just get a private investigator and do this. You had money for IVF, you had money for a wedding, setting up a life - and you have at this time an other man who claimed he wouldn't stop contacting your wife, and that "I understand" to the no contact after all that other bluster, just makes me think she cued him in this was coming and just call uncle so my husband let's this go.

As far as claiming this was 9 months of this and it was off and then back on, I call bullshit. Your wife was in love with this guy the whole time, the whole three years, and as far as I can see, still is to this very day. This thing can come back and boomerang you at any moment.

What do you want?

I did not want the same thing as you, I think, but I did want my wife and my family intact IF, AND ONLY IF, my wife wanted that too. So I told my wife I wanted other man's workplace name, address, phone number, and other man's wife email and Facebook and other man's address and phone - and she gave it to me. That was probably about 30 minutes after I first confronted my wife.

The first thing I did was tell my wife that I knew, which she denied about a minute or two, then told me they were just friends a minute or two, which I just told her please go be with him, I'll call him up myself and tell him he wins, you're coming, I'll help you pack, bag and baggage. Then she started crying hysterically with snot blowing out of her nose and hyperventilating and I thought for a second or two that I might have to call 911 because she didn't seem like she could breathe.

A day or two on, I called other man's job and told them I found a whole lot of raunchy stuff on his work email and asked him to get fired or I'd have to look into their culpability in allowing employees to do such things so frequently and so long, then after he was fired I called him up to gloat and tell him he can let this be the end or else somehow his past mistakes might follow him elsewhere.

So I don't understand the slow response, not just you but in general. If you love your wife and you want this to end, then do the things that need to be done to end it. She's come back to him twice already, and at the time when she was madly and passionately making love to you, which tells you something.

So put a bomb in other man's life - can you believe the fucking balls on that guy, when your wife told him you found out, he said he won't end it anyway - he treats you like nothing, he has no care in the world that you won't rock his world.

At the very least, go tell the guy's wife. A private investigator is expensive. A divorce is even more expensive.

edited, yes, I got a private investigator and found out even more dirt on the scumbag who cheated with my wife. One result from that, even more so than I already had felt, was couldn't she even cheat on me with a half-way decent guy? How bad must I be if she wanted this guy?

[This message edited by wk55hn at 11:31 AM, April 30th (Sunday)]

I have found out that my WW shared many details of out sex life with the OM including a very sexual letter I wrote my ww during thier second affair.

She never would have openly brought that to him unless she knew he would want it. He likely questioned, who is better, husband or me? And wife probably said you'd been having good sex, so he needed to know how to up his game to out-do you. It's hard to win when you don't even know you're playing.

It is making me feel so exposed. My ww claims she shared becuase of how great it made her feel

Bullshit. Unless it made her feel that she had an affair partner willing to out-do you. Wouldn't that feel good to you, a new woman wanting to find out how to make you even more fulfilled of your needs?

My ww is also claiming she loved both me and om.

I believe that she believes it. I have heard it many times, and it is utter bullshit, but people genuinely believe it. However, to me, it shows that such a person, to the core, is looking at people like objects. Objects that don't feel.

Do you want the sexy sports car or the safety family sedan? Can you have both? Can you "love" both? They fulfills different needs. And if you "love" them both, neither of them get their feelings hurt.

But can you really "love" a car? The word "love" is misused seven days to Sunday. Did she "love" both you and other man? Well, she loved how she felt. She didn't care about the other man, and she didn't care about you, in the sense that she was willing both you and him to get hurt by her. Did she not hurt him by breaking up with her, no matter how wrong that relationship was? And she hurt you from moment one that she started down that path.

So I think she believes she loved you both, but the word "love" is not what you are thinking of as "love." Certainly you can love your mother and love your sister and love your daughter and love your wife and every one of your "love" for those females are different.

But when in doubt, go back to the fundamentals. The basics. Your wife vowed to you in front of God and family and friends. That is the basic foundation of your marriage. The vows. Then she broke those vows. She thought purposely, she understood, and she did it. She started with whatever flirtation and she did not say, "I love my husband, I must stop this, and I must talk with him to talk about how to get him to fulfill me instead of someone else." No, what she said was "This feels good, I will continue, and my husband does not matter enough for me to stop." This is the basic fundamental foundation of cheating.

I am having trouble with some details of the affair and I don't know how to take them. If you have read the thread you will see the affair flared up twice over last 2 1/2 years each time lasting about 9 months. Ending the first time when obs found out and the second time when I found out. During the second affair i believed our relationship was great and we were having a awsome sex life right up to dday

I have found out that my WW shared many details of out sex life with the OM including a very sexual letter I wrote my ww during thier second affair. It is making me feel so exposed. My ww claims she shared becuase of how great it made her feel but I am having trouble with that explanation.

If you read a lot of infidelity stories, you will see that one of the recurring themes is the WW belittling her BH to her AP. Psychologically, this serves to justify the A in the WW's mind. It also helps boost the AP's ego, thereby strengthening the bond between the A partners and, in some cases, is done in order to titillate him.

Most commonly, this involves nothing more than the WW complaining about her BH (not giving her enough attention, being emotionally unavailable, etc.). But, sometimes, it involves more egregious behavior, such as making fun of the BH or his sexual prowess. In rare cases, the WW goes as far and actually performing various perverse acts on the BH (e.g., asking for oral sex from the BH shortly after being impregnated by the AP) at the AP's behest.

After having read many hundreds of infidelity accounts, what I have never seen is the WW extolling her BH to the AP or enthusing about her sex life with him.

I'm not saying it's impossible that your WW did this, just that it's probably 1000 to 1 that she didn't. More likely, when she described her love life with you, she down-played it so as to assuage her AP's jealousy.

My ww is also claiming she loved both me and om.

If by "love," your WW was referring to romantic or erotic love, this is highly unlikely, since limerence is invariably directed at a single love interest.

Assuming she's not just blowing smoke up your you-know-what, what she is likely recounting is some variation of the good old ILYBIANILWY routine.

I am not sure if this should be in a new thread

It's generally best to stick to a single thread for continuity and to maximize participation.

Is your wife in IC. She needs to be discussing the love she professes for the OM. I would not try to R at all with someone who still says they are in love with someone else.

If it were me, I'd start 180 and tell my WW if she loves him she can go be with him. I'd begin D proceedings. Doesn't mean it has to end in D, but can make her realize what craziness she is following.

Also a condition of R in my mind should be that she help you further to find the OBS and at the very least tell you what town they moved to. She has to know.

I don't think you said how they met. Could they still be meeting in person there?

wk55hn you are right about the letter. I talked more to my ww and I didn't understanding her right the first time. The OM was pushin her for details after she canceled a meetup because we were together. She was trying to make me feel better about how good that night was. I really think my first post was colored with my fears. It still doesn't make it any better in my eyes, I feel very exposed.

I do think my ww need ic so she can process what has happened and what she has done and hopefully figure out if she can actually be happy with just me. I don't want to do this again and again I don't think I could take that.

I don't think you said how they met. Could they still be meeting in person there?

my ww had 3 major ways the would meet up, although there were others.

They use to meet early in the morning when I thought my ww was going to the gym. The OM lives over 75 miles away but works for a security company and they would meetup when he worked in the area.

My wife is also part of a singing group and thier were a few times she would meet him before and after event. The singing group is 1/2 way between them.

They also took 2 trips. My ww lied to me about going to singing compititions and instead went on om business trips, Arizona during first round and NYC during second.

The trips hurt the most.

I have ask my ww to change gyms but I havent been able to bring my self to ask her to stop going to the singing group. To help with my fears she has installed a tracking program on her phone.

I can be sure about thier old methods because of the amount of information I found. My ww email account does not automatically clear her trash and she hasn't emptied her sent folder.

How did she know the AP to begin with?

Will she help you find the APs wife? She has to know what city they are in.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 8:01 PM, April 30th (Sunday)]

She was trying to make me feel better about how good that night was.

I think she was trying to make it easier on herself. To placate you, even if it is a lie.

at what point are you going to take decisive action, aabbccdd ?

You aren't making progress IMO

This is an ex-boyfriend. Why did they break up? Does your wife know the other man's wife?

Why does your wife find other man so attractive? What physically? What emotionally? Ask her, who is the better lover? Who is the better person? Who is the better father? Who is the better provider? Who is the better husband? Why does she want to be with you and not with him? Who is taller? Who is the better dancer? Who is physically stronger? Who is more intelligent? Who is more compassionate? Who is more honorable?

Who is more truthful? Who would she like her kids to be like? Who has more self respect? Who does she respect more?

Does she want to be with him but he is just not available? Ask her and tell her to be honest. Not brutally honest, just honest. But when she is done, see if she compares how other man treat her vs. how you treat her. Then ask her to compare how other man treats his wife compared to how you treat your wife. Get it all out, see what is making her tick with why she keeps coming back to him.

The only contact methods that I can find are for OMs work. OBS doesn't work and I don't think obs is active online.

You need to inform the OBS, in my opinion and others, it's the best means to kill the affair.

And really, wouldn't you want him to contact you if he knew?

They are both trying to keep you from doing this.

A private investigator is one way, and depending on the type and size of company, you might try the direct approach. Call the company, and I wouldn't be shy explaining why you need a home phone number, that

you need to talk to his wife because he's been screwing your wife. You might get a sympathetic secretary that would discreetly get you a home phone number, or talk to the Owner, tell him you situation and you prefer to handle it outside the business, but you are prepared to confront him at work if necessary.

A business Owner doesn't need this kind of crap, believe me.

If he is a big shot or part Owner, chances are you wont get anything, but you just blew up his shit at work, and everybody just got a lot of gossip to spread around. A win-win for you.

If it gets back to him, you just made him really nervous.

I know this isn't about revenge, but if payback is side benefit, so be it. Worst case is he will be constantly looking over his shoulder from now on. Kinda hard to be romantic when you're trying to keep someone from blowing it up at every turn.

Well I asked my ww the questions. Many of which I had asked before but the order and having a plan to prevent me from getting hung up really helped, I added a few of my own.

I have to go back father in history to explain how i believe the affair ticked. My ww was married before for less then a year. He wasn't the other man. They got a fault devorce and he should have ended up I jail for abuse. The om and ww met right after this and he was the rebound relationship.

They dated just before we met and never officially broke up, they just stopped talking. OM met his wife just after as well.

10 years pass.

The affair started emotional just after our first child was born. We had become distance after many failures over 2 years of IVF before.

Between the affairs our relationship greatly improved.

The affair started again just after our second child was born. When the affair started up again it was much more physical then emotional.

Ww said she compartmentlized her life to avoid thinking about what she was doing to others. She said she had never thought about the obs until after I strated asking so many questions. And ww has not meet obs.

Ww said I am the better husband, father and the person she wants our kids to grow up like. Physically were are similar but diffrent. Emontionally was the hard one. Ww said the om has the ability to get her to open up even when ww dosent want to and that ww found her self confiding in him becuase of this.

My ww has also said said that she would not go back to him and that the affair made her feel good but in retrospective it was not worth it and she especially regrets the pain it has caused me. Ww also said she would do what ever was needed to fix us.

She has offered to goto ic if I go as well.

at what point are you going to take decisive action, aabbccdd ?

Wow this isn't helpful.

I have set hard boundaries including an expectation of trufulness and openness and rules to make me feel like affair isn't currently still happening.

I have told ww to have strict NC and I am prepared to end relationship if it is broken and I am keeping my self aware and checkingeven though it is hard on me.

WW has sent NC letter.

I already have ww passwords and she has agreed for me to install a tracking program on her phone.

Ww has awnsered all of my questions no matter how painful for both of us and i have been checking what I can against the mountain of evidence I found.

And I am still processing. I may be aiming for r but it is dependent on developing a new relationship and for me to have confidence that it will benifit my children and me. And that an affair will not happen again.

How is this not desisive action. I am not living with an affair I am trying to process, understand and end affair one way or the other. I just prefer r becuase of the years of happiness I have had and my children.

Aa, have you asked for a written timeline? Those are very helpful.

[This message edited by Wool94 at 5:09 AM, May 2nd (Tuesday)]

You're still only what?... about a month or so out from DDay? This is all so fresh for you. At one month out, I was still sick to my stomach all the time, adrenaline and cortisol flooding my system, crying every day, and just barely getting through.

Like I told you earlier, the knee-jerk reaction is to try to put it all back together. And hey, if I were to take the time to tell you everything my fWH did, you'd be wondering why I would have even considered R, let alone done it. It really is different when it's YOUR spouse and YOUR family at stake.

That said, I would still recommend that you make a concerted effort to put yourself first in all this. Get some IC so you can talk about your feelings with someone and process the trauma. I put that off for two years and suffered more than I needed to.

Don't commit to R until you're really sure it's what YOU want and not just what's most convenient. It's unfortunate, but at times like these, when we MOST need to be in touch with our feelings, our pain can cloud our judgment. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that you shouldn't R or that you shouldn't work toward it as a goal. What I am saying though is that your WW is an untrustworthy partner and will remain so until enough time has elapsed that you've observed measurable changes in her... and also that enough time has elapsed so you don't feel you're her "Plan B".

Making sure you're not "Plan B" isn't just about forgoing an emotional risk where you might get hurt again and being afraid of the possibility of more pain. It's about the underlying worry that we've been taken for chumps and how that particular anxiety poisons the future. The one person who KNOWS whether you were Plan A or Plan B is currently untrustworthy. So, you have to take your TIME.

It's not fair that someone else hurts us but we have to do our own healing. If she had cut you with a knife, sure.. she could staunch the wound and drive you to the hospital. But it's your job to keep the wound clean and your body's job to knit the flesh. It's the same now. The focus of healing, whether you R or D, is to get in touch with your inner self and to find the wherewithal to be happy and whole either with or without your current partner.

No soliciting.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 7:59 AM, May 2nd (Tuesday)]

Aabbccdd, I have read this thread carefully and as a man also betrayed by his wife, I have some deep concerns.

There are some inescapable facts...

1. You wife has proven she has no true respect or love for you.

2. The OM has proven he will pretty much stop at nothing getting to your wife- and after 2 long betrayals, she doesn't really seem to mind.

3. I believe you are pretty much rug sweeping this whole episode in your life. She loves him and he loves her. Nothing is going to change that.

You're being noble trying to hold things together, but it's like catching sand. I don't believe she is using or playing you, but I believe she wants to save face and her reputation more so than being committed to you. When she leaves, it will be on her terms and not yours.

My advice is a 90 day trial separation. Then come back for a meeting and see how she, and you, feel about salvaging the marriage. Ask to see her cell phone and emails to see if they have had any contact. Also, make it a point for HER to locate the OMW and tell her about the betrayal. She has a right to know just as you did.

I wish you well.

BP