SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Was doing ok until yesterday afternoon when AP contacted me. I'd been "on her heart" & all of the anger, anguish, betrayal, hurt rushed back to me. I tried to be nice, but let her know that it would take me years to recover from this. Let her know that I never deserved what they did to me.

The AP contacted you? Why did you take the call? Why isn't her number blocked from both yours and your WH's phone? No Contract (NC) equals No New Hurts is a phrase you'll see a lot on SI. I can recommend it. It isn't nice, necessarily, but neither is her screwing your H very nice.

As for letting her know how this has affected you, don't. She told your WH that she'd had 1 A already on her poor BS, and I'd bet that she minimized it to him. Maybe not, but her having already had 1 made having the 2nd easier.

Don't open any more windows or doors for this woman into your life. She doesn't care that she hurt you, she didn't think about it, you weren't even a blip on her radar, when she was alone with your H.

Because I've asked WH for NC, he asked me to contact AP and ask her to cancel her plans. I asked & she said she'd consider. WH has said that he'll cancel if AP won't.

I agree, this is quite an entitled OW you've got on your hands. WH saying that he'll cancel if she won't, however, is him doing the very minimum that you'd expect from him. Hmmm, I can't seem to word that sentence well, how about something like, "Well, of course I'd expect him to cancel if she won't. ha! The nerve, as if I'd be here waiting when he got back if both of them were going!" That's better.

I read and understand your job/home situation. That makes consulting a lawyer especially important soon -because- your current earning power, to the courts, is usually the greater of what your education level should expect in your area -or- your last job.

So, should you and your WH split (at least in my state) you'd probably end up with half of his pension -but- you'd probably be on the hook paying him support because your earning power is greater. DO NOT TAKE THIS AS A GIVEN OR AS LEGAL ADVICE. This sort of thing is often, but not always, true in the United States. Some states would let you sue the OW, and in some of those you might have a chance of winning.

She said she was searching the internet to have an idea of "what I was going through". (I won't repeat what I was thinking, but I did go outside an scream.)

Yeah, look, if she didn't understand the hurt caused by her 1st A then she certainly isn't going to be getting any great new insights with her second. Those are just pretty words to distract you and deceive you into thinking that she's some sort of caring human.

Here on SI: Watch Actions, not Words. In other words, I can tell you what a great guy I am while stealing you blind at the same time. At the end of the conversation you're suddenly poor and I've got a lot more money. Actions, not Words.

There's a family reunion being planned in July and I know that we'll be going. There are some siblings that we haven't met yet that H wants to meet.

I am most definitely not as nice as you are. Granted, on my DDay I was a full-fledged, snot-nosed, crying mess. Still...

I think that I'd be all about pointing out to WH that, out of the X siblings that he's met so far he's slept with 1/X per-cent of them, and 100% of the female ones (if that's true), and he sure as shit isn't going to be meeting up with any more of them for a while, Thank You Very Much!

Trying not to make any snap decisions but it's tough when you want to kick some people in the nether regions.

I get it, I really, really do. Like, really.

All this isn't telling you that you should start whanging on people, either emotionally or physically, but you can sure do what the women on this site call "lacing up your bitch boots" and make sure some folks know that they can do whatever the hell that they want -but- you don't have to choose to be drug along on that ride.

I do hope that my rather florid turn of phrase in this message hasn't unduly offended you. It does illustrate, however, how being cheated on tends to cause one's language to change.

A fist bump to you, sister in adversity }{

D-man, I really appreciate your words. They may not be easy, but I know that my thought processes are not functioning well. (One reason why I want to take things slow.) Hearing/reading them & having my words pointed back to me is helping.

The contact from the AP is through email. Originally, I set her up to go to spam but have a couple of emails that I forwarded from H's email account from her.

Because of the trip in May, I did email her back letting her know she needs to change her plans & she said she'd consider it. Talked to H this morning & he's willing to cancel his trip. We discussed him going at a later date. H understands that this is a deal breaker.

Now, to go find those bitch boots & start lacing them up.

HI leafields. Quite a story - sorry.

You have gotten so much good advice and you seem to have a really good head on your shoulders. And now that you will have some awesome Bitch Boots on, you will be a force to be reckoned with.

Please see the lawyer ASAP — knowledge is power and you need to understand what the future will look like if you R or D. No need to make a decision. - you are wise to wait until the worst of the shock has subsided enough to think very clearly and to see what actions your WH does. But you need to be able to make the right decision and not one based on fear of financial consequences.

Hang in there, lady. You are doing great, even if it doesn't always feel like it.

I just read about another case like this. 18 year old girl reunited with birth parents who gave her up for adoption at birth. She was raised by great parents but they supported her wanting to meet birth parents. Her bio father 'fell in love' with her and they had an affair, she got pregnant and he divorced HER MOTHER to marry his daughter. Now they are both charged with incest and baby has been taken by paternal grandmother.

Sick sick sick. I could never stay with a man who did this. Yuck.

I was separated from my brother as a young child. I remember so clearly fantasizing about what our relationship would look like when I found him. We now are connected and have a brother/sister relationship. The thought of anything beyond that makes me want to hurl. At no point did that ever even cross my mind. But I understand we're all different and process things differently.

You seem way to lax about the NC. I would not want WH to go ANYWHERE she is. It would just have to be a consequence to that horrid betrayal. And if he (or she) is hurt and feels loss? Well, maybe they will understand a tiny bit of what you feel. Surely the entire family would understand this new predicament.

I hope you get some clarity soon, as to what you want. Infidelity of any kind is traumatic, but this is certainly even more complicated.

How old are you, WH & AP-Sister?

Jeaniegirl, the biological father shot and killed his baby his daughter and her adoptive father and then himself.

If he goes to the family reunion you need to go and stick to him like glue. In fact the sister should just stay away and allow him time to find his other relatives. In the meantime you need to separate out what you are dealing with. He is a cheater. He is an adopted child. He absolutely needs to own up to the stupidity of cheating with his own sister. He also needs to own up to the fact that this is how his mind operates. On the other hand he needs some intense counseling to help him get over what was done to him as a child. I realize that this forum is for people getting out of infidelity but your husband is so damaged by his childhood that he needs all the help he can get. I have dealt with tons of adopted children and I can tell you that they yearn for their biological families. It is biology that we want to know where we came from. Separate the two out. Cheating has no excuses. You cannot let him off the hook for that. You can be sympathetic to what was done to him as a child. You also need to protect your own heart because it is broken.

Smilethrupain -

We're in our early- to mid-50's. Not spring chickens and definitely should know better. One of the things that I said was that as his sister, he knew that was a wrong relationship - outside of the fact that he showed total disrespect for our 30+ year marriage.

At first, he started to throw her under the bus. When they were together visiting, he had his arm around her & physiology took over but she noticed. He said she brought it up, he said no, but she pushed. I asked why he didn't ask me for help, but he shut down. (I know he'd justified his actions in his mind.) I then asked if they used protection - and of course not. I mentioned that he needed to get checked for STDs & better hope that she didn't get pregnant. (Possible, but not probable. I had my bitch boots on then.)

I said that he needed IC first, and then we could see how MC goes.

He has admitted it's the worst mistake he's made in his life and is sorry. At this point, I don't know if he's sorry he got caught or if he's sorry he hurt me.

He's yearned for his biological family since before we married, and I totally understand wanting to meet each of them and bond with them. I don't get the sleeping with them.

Thanks for your insight, Cooley & smilethrupain, on the separation/adoption. Sounds like one of my next steps is to see a lawyer and talk options.

Cooley, I didn't know he had killed. How horrible. Poor baby.

leafields, how are you doing today? How is coping going? What is your WH up to with respect to fixing himself to be a partner who is safe to emotionally invest in again?

I'm going to throw out something that I forgot to say before, and that is Post Often! It sure does help early on to have a place to vent when you feel like venting instead of, possibly, cramming all of those feelings down.

I thought again of something you wrote and found it.

She said she was searching the internet to have an idea of "what I was going through".

Really?

Really.

Really?

"You have got to be fucking kidding me," he said, incredulously.

Wow, she's really an empathetic snowflake, isn't she? And, pray, what do we think of a woman who learns what empathy is by googling it?

The mind boggles.

(I won't repeat what I was thinking, but I did go outside an scream.)

That's a good reaction and quite a release. Lots on here do that (or did) quite regularly. Some visit thrift stores or garage sales, buy old plates, put on safety glasses, and then take the plates to the garage or back yard and break them. One woman, who practiced some sort of boxing sport with her WH, broke his nose if I remember correctly. That was generally frowned upon and can compromise your legal position. Not recommended but I bet that it felt great.

If you've read much in JFO you've probably read about HB, screaming, breaking things, crying, lying in bed all day, losing your ability to concentrate, losing the things that used to make you happy. I, for instance, used to read multiple books at once. I read (past tense) voraciously. Now I've almost not cracked a book since my own DDay. For a while I couldn't get past a 5-paragraph article.

You might also have found (though it hasn't come up in a while) something referring to "male lizard brain" (google the quoted phrase minus the quotes) when communicating with him. There are lots of possible reactions to being cheated on. We've seen them all, here. Don't be shy with your questions.

Good morning Devotedman,

My emotional response to the email was very similar to your inner monologue. I had asked her to cancel her plans for their trip next month & she said she'd consider it - which was something she'd already said she'd be willing to do. I shared the email string with H & he is seeing another side to AP. She isn't following through with what she said & that she is manipulative.

My H is going to cancel his trip. Tonight, we're going to put AP on speaker phone & tell her that we're canceling & from here on out there will be no contact. We will not respond to text or email.

My youngest went on an interview yesterday & starts his new job today. To celebrate, we went to get lunch stuff & then out to dinner.

When we got home, S went to his room so H & I had a chance to talk. I asked for a timeline so I could put things in perspective (if they can be). I recognize that the initial contact quickly moved into an EA, and then into the PA. He did admit to some TT & I told him we had to get it all out in the open because I wasn't able to trust anything he said.

He did finally admit that when I saw them up in our room, that I did break up an embrace. (My brain knew what it saw, but was going, No, you're crazy.) I told him that I wouldn't stand for any more lies & that he had to be open & honest or there was no chance. Part of that would be my ability to get past the "ewww" factor.

He asked what I wanted in the M & said love, trust, & to feel valued. He couldn't ignore me & that I needed intimacy (not now & I wasn't ready for that.) I told him that I'd let him coast because I know his job is demanding, but had let him coast for too long. If we go R, then no more coasting. I told him that D was still a very serious option & I'm still undecided on what I want to do. My main goal through IC is to determine which way to go. Talking through the issues does help to put things in perspective. When you say things out loud - or post on the forum - you can understand where your thinking may be skewed.

He knows he has a lot of IC to do before we can even begin MC. He has an appointment today, so I'm going to ask him to discuss telling the BS of AP & the NC call to AP. (We'll have to see her at the family reunion & hope I can be civil by then.)

My concentration is gone - I can hardly seem to read a news article, let alone a book. I'm used to reading several books at a time, and have a lot of regulatory documents that I have to read for work. Don't know how I'm going to plow through the huge document that was released yesterday. I've done a lot of retail therapy, and will probably need to put the delivery drivers on my Christmas list.

Still have days when I just want to stay in bed, eat potato chips & watch TV. Started to read a book, but just can't get motivated.

There's so much reading that I need to do, such as the list provided here, but still wallowing in the miasma that has become my emotions. Part of the problem is WFH because I can isolate. Tonight, I'm going to go to church. Tomorrow is the start of the football draft, so we're having a draft day party with the boys (pizza rolls & taquitos). Friday, the draft party starts back up but my DIL & I are going to go out to dinner.

I will google the "male lizard brain" & get educated on the topic.

One of the questions is, "Is it worth it?" Only time will tell, I guess.

Still having issues with the mind movies. It could be that I haven't been active enough brain-wise & body-wise to redirect thoughts. The 1-month mark is tomorrow, but figured I could give myself time to recover.

He knows he has a lot of IC to do before we can even begin MC. He has an appointment today, so I'm going to ask him to discuss telling the BS of AP & the NC call to AP.

Be prepared that the IC may be against telling the other spouse. Sometimes, this plays right into what the wayward themselves want to hear too. Hold firm and tell though, because the other bs deserves to know and also, it usually kills any affair feelings left between the two AP's stone dead. Even if you think it's over already, nothing clarifies where the wayward's head is at more than them being onside about outing the affair.

[This message edited by sinsof thefather at 10:16 AM, April 25th (Wednesday)]

Lea, I've read through this whole thread and wow... Just wow. This is a complex mess for you. ((((Lea))))

You have so much to deal with. I think you are doing an outstanding job of keeping it together. I know you probably don't feel like it right now, but really... you are!

While GSA is a recognized syndrome, that does not mean it is "normal" or healthy in any way. My DIL was also given up for adoption as a newborn. 5 years ago (in her 30s) she was reunited with a bio brother and sister, who were also adopted as infants. The 3 were raised in 3 different homes. When they got together they had an instant connection. They look alike. They have the same tendencies, personality traits and sense of humor. They responded to that connection and attraction the way most of us would... they felt like family. This is why IMHO it is so important for your WH to go through IC before you can go to MC. Something went way off the rails here and having a term for it doesn't make it less screwed up. Are you in IC also?? If not, it would probably be helpful to process this.

DM has given you some fabulous advice. Definitely keep coming here to vent and read. This site has saved me and gave me hope. Reading and sharing here helped my WH and I see that there was a path through this and out of infidelity.

Continue to take care of yourself.

ps. Love the Taquitos and Pizza bites ideas. I was thinking of making nachos or tacos for WH for draft watching.

If she is replying to your emails....

Find a reason to email her again, maybe to more firmly ask her to cancel. And when you do ask her my she chose to sleep with "YOUR HUSBAND" (don't reference the sibling relationship at all). Or just state "Since you chose to sleep with MY HUSBAND, I ask that you cancel your planned trip. Once she replys I would encourage a reference to their sibling relationship, like "he is your blood brother for the love of god"

Ultimately it's to get her to reply to the email with some level of acknowledgement that she slept with your husband & her brother. This would be an electronic record that would potentially be a piece of leverage....

That is, of course if you don't already have it...

Can I ask, is this trip for the family reunion or something different? If not, what is this trip vs the family reunion?

Thanks.

Hi Stevesn -

The 8 surviving siblings are in 4 states. The youngest lives in a different state than either my WS & different than AP. About the first of the year, my H & the future AP started planning a trip to see S#9. (My H is S#6 & AP is S#4.) This is the trip next month that we're going to cancel b/c AP isn't. (Texts found on D-Day revealed they were going to ditch S#9 for a lot of the trip & what they were going to do in the motel room.) Anyway...

S#2, #3 & #4 are planning a reunion in July for the immediate family (no kids. which isn't that bad b/c they're all adults. I think the youngest kid is 19 or 20.)

We've discussed telling S#9 that the job is preventing the May visit & make arrangements to fly out later. S#9 may not be able to make the reunion in July.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but this line:

She isn't following through with what she said & that she is manipulative.

about the AP and this one:

He did admit to some TT & I told him we had to get it all out in the open because I wasn't able to trust anything he said.

about your WH describe both of their behavior as "not following through on what he/she said and that he/she is manipulative."

Your WH committed to you when you two married. He didn't follow through on those vows.

She is being manipulative. Your WH tries to manipulate you through TT and inaction.

If I could be so bold as to give a homework assignment, undertaken at your discretion, point out the similarities to him and then ask him what the damned difference is.

You might also light a bit of a fire under his ass if you gracefully point out that from all that you've read so far, healing from this is likely to be a 2 to 5 year job for you. Further, if you decided to D right now your healing would start right now and proceed in a predictable path. If, however, you choose to give him _your_ _gift_ of a chance to R and he screws that with the same vigor that he used when screwing AP, well, your healing will start over again with each new screwing.

Tell him that _that's_ what TT means because each new TT is a new DDay. Let him know that _should_ you decide to offer him the gift of R that you'd better already know everything because any TT, any lying _about_ _anything_, any hiding, even any suspicions that you have that are well-grounded, will be a new DDay for you.

Around here we say that Open, Authentic, Trustworty, and Honest communication (OATH-style, and a good mnemonic) is a requirement for R.

Open - if he has a question, issue, or whatever, he _volunteers_ this openly, as do you.

Authentic - No lying, no hiding, no blameshifting, no TT-ing. More than that, this ties in intimately with Openness. "WH, do you want to go to the hair salon with me? HIM: Really, no, boring for me. But I will happily go and read a book if you want me to."

Trustworthy - Trust is re-built with openness and honesty over time. Repeated, consistent displays of open, authentic, honest behavior are required for you to begin to believe that he might be trustworthy.

Honest - Do not lie, hide, or spare the BS or WS feelings by telling "white lies." All of those are out.

Regarding his IC - he should be planning to invite you to a meeting. Here in the U.S. he can sign a release (as can your IC) so that the two ICs can talk to each other. If he's lying or minimizing (lies, again) to his IC then your IC can catch that. Further, the two ICs should agree that both of you are ready to begin MC before you begin. Also, he can release his IC to talk to _you_ about _him_ when he's not present. His IC won't be counseling you -but- you can make sure that the IC is being told the truth. Bring evidence, it might be needed.

Regarding OATH-style communication - OATH-with-reservations might be appropriate right now from you, your decision. You haven't yet decided to offer R to him so you are not morally or ethically obligated to be fully open, transparent, honest, all of that. You haven't decided if he's the enemy, yet, or if he's fully trusted and you're all-in to fix it. You tell me things, for instance, but you wouldn't tell me your bank account numbers. Nor your income level. Think about how revealing what you decide to tell him will benefit _you_.

Don't threaten but don't pull punches. Saying, "If you don't do X by Y then I'm leaving!" is only effective if you actually _leave_ if he doesn't do X by Y. Whatever you say that you'll do you'd better do or he'll learn that you do not mean what you say and -that- will result in him not believing what you say.

There's a thing on here, "we teach people how to treat us by what we accept." If you teach him that your statements are hollow then that's what he'll learn and he'll take advantage, all people do this, not just him. If you were to say to SI, "SI, I'm leaving him on Thursday," and then don't leave on Thursday we learn that you don't mean what you say.

If you blindly take him back, forgive, rugsweep, minimize, every time that he has an A then you're teaching him that it is okay for you to have an A. If you cry and wail and he promises the moon when he has an A then he learns that he can smooth it over every time after you cry and wail if he'll just promise the moon.

Boundary. No more A's, ever. Consequence. You leave???

Think about this stuff, as I know that you're doing, and grow.

Well, today H has the day off & it's nice to see him washing & putting away the dishes.

SeaDoug - she did send me an email that has these two lines:

"I NEVER saw this coming till I was in it. Why would I sccumb to thinking it was ok to do this. I never realized the snare!! I'm wanting good to come out of this. I want that first and foremost for you and my brother."

The rest is about wanting to get past this, heal & be like it was before. Please - wanting good to come out of this?!? I almost threw up.

Devotedman, homework is completed. H & I were talking & I mentioned that healing would be anywhere from 2-5 years (at least) - after he'd been in IC for a while. Lucky for him, he had an IC session today & they covered a few things that we were going through today.

Last night, I was going thru his phone & found a pic of him w/no shirt. Asked him about it & he didn't remember what/why. I told him I didn't believe him & let it slide.

Today, I had some tough questions for him & he let me know that he didn't send the pic to AP until after the PA started. Used this as the opening to discuss that this is an example of what I would consider lying & manipulation on his part.

Also, this was the 3rd A by the AP (that she discussed with H). I pointed out that makes her a serial cheater & anything she said was unreliable. I could tell by the look on his face that was something that hadn't crossed his mind. And that even though she admitted to 2 others, she probably had more. H said that he didn't remember if he said how many before & I said that he said she'd had an A - singular - meaning one. I was Bitchy Boots & his IC had warned him that we'd be on the emotional roller coaster for months, if we stayed on the path to R.

Went over again that I didn't know if I had it in me to do a 2-5 year recovery period. If I went down the D pathway, healing starts now.

I like the OATH acronym & wrote it down to help me learn. H knows that I mean what I say & that I haven't figured out what I want to do. That he's made me feel so devalued that I might as well be a bug squashed under his foot. I wasn't his mom or his maid & deserved better treatment from him.

Anyway, getting ready to make the call to her & say that H won't be making the trip next month & go no contact.

You quoted her as saying:

"I NEVER saw this coming till I was in it. Why would I sccumb to thinking it was ok to do this. I never realized the snare!! I'm wanting good to come out of this. I want that first and foremost for you and my brother."

Interesting analysis: I never, I was, I succumb, I never, I'm wanting, I want, for you and my brother.

6 instances of "I" and one crammed together instance of "you and my brother." You two don't even rate a sentence that doesn't begin with what "I want" for you.

Selfish, much?

That is one entitled little cookie he's got for a sister. It's all about her.

Bring a pencil and paper or a voice recorder to your talks with your WH. Lots of betrayed do that, we have fog for brains (and he didn't say "fog" for a while, we want to ask the same questions over and over to help us rebuild our personal narrative, and notebooks of what you ask and what he replies will help with that. Additionally, you'll be able to go back and quote him, "On Apr 25, 2018 you said X. Now you're saying Y. This doesn't do anything to cause me to believe that you're becoming trustworthy."

One more comment on the quote:

Why would I sccumb to thinking it was ok to do this.

Well, um, because you've done it twice before and gotten away with it? Because you're selfish and self-entitled?

Because you _did_ succumb to thinking it was ok to do that? and...

I never realized the snare!!

So having an A wasn't a "snare" (excuse) the other 2 times that you admitted to? You're an old pro at this, what the hell did you fucking think it was, bloody Chrimmas?

Rant over, sorry. Just... the mind boggles. So much bullshit in this one.

One more thing, STDs. HSV and HPV (Human Papilloma Virus, the warts/cancer causing stuff) can be asymptomatic for up to years. You'll have to submit to more frequent (every 6 months, ladies? help?) pap / cervical tests for a while to see if you have cell changes.

Wonderful, WH. Thanks for that.