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Just Found Out :
Wife acting strange about Christmas party

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 DaninOH (original poster member #69121) posted at 11:01 PM on Monday, December 17th, 2018

Basically, every time they were alone there was some kind of physical contact. And she did say that there would have been alone time Friday night.

[This message edited by DaninOH at 5:11 PM, December 17th (Monday)]

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Robert22205https ( member #65547) posted at 11:02 PM on Monday, December 17th, 2018

Did you confirm no contact over the week end prior to the party?

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 DaninOH (original poster member #69121) posted at 11:03 PM on Monday, December 17th, 2018

The kissing and vagina rubbing was last Monday in his car in the Hospital parking lot.

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Robert22205https ( member #65547) posted at 11:03 PM on Monday, December 17th, 2018

I'm sorry .... they were alone twice for lunch and there was physical contact each time? Is that correct?

Was that the week of the party?

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M1965 ( member #57009) posted at 11:04 PM on Monday, December 17th, 2018

Hi Dan,

I have to second (third and fourth) the people who are advising you to use Steve's post as a basis for your response to your wife. I have come to know Steve over the couple of years I have been reading and posting in these forums, and he really strikes a good balance between the extremes that can surface here ("Burn the witch!" and "Forget it, say nothing, and pretend it never happened").

Steve will not steer you wrong. I wish I had had him on my team when I went through my own troubles, but they happened before the internet was around.

What your wife says about the behaviour of the OM at the party, and her interactions with him, strike me as totally plausible. It seems that she picked a complete fruit loop to mess around with, and she was aware that he might be a bit uncontrollable that night.

The way he made his hostility so blatantly obvious is not what seasoned players would have done. For them, discretion is the name of the game. He acted like a petulant child.

One thing I was thinking about was your wife's declarations about spending the rest of her life proving herself to you. Why not ask her to elaborate on that, and explain how she intends to do that. That way, you get her to write out her own 'to do' list (or 'to not do again under any circumstances' list).

It is good that she has respected your wishes and left the house again after delivering her letters. Like others here, I think the stuff about her thinking you were too good for her as a reason for cheating is total horseshit, and I think you should let her know that. If you are going to rebuild your relationship with her, there needs to be honesty, and a complete intolerance for nonsense.

The same should apply in your wife's IC (which she should pay for as a sign of her commitment).

Here's a thought: depending on how you are communicating with your wife, why not ask her how she would feel if you had done to her what she has done to you? Ask her to describe how she would feel about you being in the encounters that she was in, and how that would make her feel about the marriage and herself. It might help to get her out of the me-me-me bubble that a lot of waywards inhabit.

Personally, I never want to see the word 'mistake' applied to an affair. Backing your car into a tree may be a mistake; making a deliberate and calculated decision as an adult that works out badly for you or other people is not a mistake. It is just a sh*tty decision that did not pan out as well as you thought it would.

This is not just word games; it is important that the nature of the affair is set down from the get go. It was not a mistake, an accident, a misadventure, or anything else like that. Your wife did it for her own benefit, and it blew up in everyone's face. That may make it a disaster, but it does not make it a mistake. She needs to understand the difference.

posts: 1277   ·   registered: Jan. 21st, 2017   ·   location: South East of England
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Lieswearmedown ( member #61335) posted at 11:05 PM on Monday, December 17th, 2018

Dan,

A thought and a question with respect to what conversations with your wife and children might look like over the next month or two.

Honesty. How is it valued in your home and have you and your wife had a reason to emphasize the importance of honesty to your daughters?

I ask because it may come up once your girls realize that “I got too close to a coworker” is a half-assed half-truth and if your wife challenges the full honesty of something one of your daughters says, she may be shocked to get a version of the “I don’t care what you have to say about anything. You aren’t exactly honest mom.”

Please don’t lie to your kids or look the other way if your wife elects to lie. Kids already live trusting their parents to handle the big stuff. Not knowing they are getting the truth leads to kids feeling like they don’t know what to depend on or what’s real.

FYI - I think the “are you ok?” text is simply from a coworker who either is clueless or may now have an inkling that something happened since everything appeared normal at the party until it didn’t and coworker showed up Monday am to find your wife had suddenly resigned. It’ll be someone who wants verification of the gossip and not at all related to Little Lumpia guy.

The talk of chalking cheating up to hormones is crapola (technical term).

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id 8300320
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 DaninOH (original poster member #69121) posted at 11:05 PM on Monday, December 17th, 2018

She did text him that Saturday and Sunday while she was out of the house. It didn't sound like they were planning to meet up. My youngest was with her on that Sunday.

[This message edited by DaninOH at 5:11 PM, December 17th (Monday)]

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tushnurse ( member #21101) posted at 11:06 PM on Monday, December 17th, 2018

Dan please get those girls signed up for therapy.

Make an appt with an attorney or 2 for after the new year. If your employer has an IEP Aask for an attorney through that. Just for information.

Your girls are going to be confused Nd conflicted doing the above will put you in the good parent slot. Your W is clearly minimizing what she did. You need to have a conversation with her about what is acceptable. Blame shifting and minimizing should not be allowed of you are considering R. If you are not then you need to be a hardass and tell her manipulation of the kids stops now or it will bite her in the ass when its time for D.

You should also stop the manipulation of the kids by putting the 4 of you together and her telling them what she did and then honoring you and the M.

You can control this. You are focusing on some of the wrong things right this moment though and there is a ton of noise on this thread. Try to ignore anything that doesn't have to do with next steps.

Me: FBSHim: FWSKids: 23 & 27 Married for 32 years now, was 16 at the time.D-Day Sept 26 2008R'd in about 2 years. Old Vet now.

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 DaninOH (original poster member #69121) posted at 11:06 PM on Monday, December 17th, 2018

Yes, hand holding the first lunch, vagina holding the second.

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devotedman ( member #45441) posted at 11:07 PM on Monday, December 17th, 2018

Then she goes off on some BS (bullshit or blame shifting. your choice) about how she has always feared that I would leave her and how I am too good for her.

This is her making everything all about herself, a "Oh, poor me! I was _fated_ to love and lose because he was too good for me!"

May we pause for a moment whilst I bring out the world's tiniest violin?

This sort of statement shows that she's experiencing regret, she's sorry that she got caught and/or it is all about poor her, and not remorse, which would be her concentrating on fixing the damage she caused you, her daughters, her family, and her marriage. There is a difference and remorse can take a while to get to while regret is almost immediate. Regret is considering one's own pain or situation while remorse is considering others. Selfish vs. unselfish, bluntly.

There's a thing called the Karpman Drama Triangle. In that model of some human behavior there's a Villain, a Victim, and a Hero. Read up on that and don't become Dan the Hero saving a poor Victim from Villain Jennifer. When you save a damsel in distress what do you have? A damsel in distress.

Sounds like her letters to the girls and to you are, intentionally or unintentionally, rugsweeping her actions and playing on sympathy. Again, regret vs. remorse. She's working, perhaps unintentionally, perhaps intentionally, on getting the girls to "feel sorry for Mom, she made a little mistake" and then with everybody triangulating on Dan she hopes you'll cave.

She didn't make a mistake. That's when I picked up the 2% milk instead of the whole milk right beside it at the grocery. She made a conscious series of choices. According to her she knew immediately that her early _choice_ to attend lunch was a bad one. Why not change that choice at the time? She also _chose_ to accept his advances. She _chose_ to spend family funds on her dress. She _chose_ to minimize the party to you, she _chose_ not to tell you about Jennifer, she _chose_ a whole series of things that were leading up to getting _more_ physical, not less.

Don't let her get away with minimizing and rugsweeping, especially to your teenage daughters. What would you want them to do if they're ever in a similar set of circumstances? Think about that really hard and then do it yourself. You are their model of how a person should act, as is their mother, and their mother isn't winning any awards at this point.

Right now she's a known liar and that's really all that you know. You _believe_ a whole lot based on a 20-year marriage, but you _know_ that you can't really predict what she'll do.

Like Bigger (and others) have said, you have the advantage (if you can call it an advantage) of being able to sit back and listen to what she says. Write it down, record it on your phone in front of her while telling her that you want to be able to listen to it later. Then draw up a diagram with ovals around what she says and draw lines between them. That'll help show what doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Like, new guy goes into phone as "Jennifer." Why? Or, "I didn't promise him sex." Of course she didn't. She was making him work for it. She was increasing her value to herself and to him by playing a little hard to get. By being a "rare" commodity vs. a "common" commodity she was increasing her perception of her value to herself. In the end that's what a lot of affairs are about, increasing one's self-perceived value.

But she _chose_ the wrong method to do that. There are a lot of ways to increase your self-perceived value and exposing yourself to divorce, villification, disgust, etc. isn't a really good one. Ask her why she chose that method.

Good luck, brother in adversity.

Me: 2xBS b 1962 xWW after 2 decades, xWGF after almost 1.
Amelia Pond: Who are you?
The Doctor: I don't know yet. I'm still cooking.
ENFP-A. Huh.

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 DaninOH (original poster member #69121) posted at 11:09 PM on Monday, December 17th, 2018

It feels like walking in on your naked wife and her lover right before he sticks it in and her saying "but we didn't have sex".

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wordsofwisdom ( member #54083) posted at 11:12 PM on Monday, December 17th, 2018

It feels like walking in on your naked wife and her lover right before he sticks it in and her saying "but we didn't have sex".

That's exactly what have happened, Dan.

One day discovered my wife chasing her old sweetheart. Wished her good luck and moved on to better things and people.
Divorced: Jan 2010

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GoldenR ( member #54778) posted at 11:12 PM on Monday, December 17th, 2018

It feels like walking in on your naked wife and her lover right before he sticks it in and her saying "but we didn't have sex".

It feels that way bc that's exactly what happened.

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wordsofwisdom ( member #54083) posted at 11:12 PM on Monday, December 17th, 2018

Golden, are you me?

One day discovered my wife chasing her old sweetheart. Wished her good luck and moved on to better things and people.
Divorced: Jan 2010

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id 8300336
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firenze ( member #66522) posted at 11:14 PM on Monday, December 17th, 2018

It feels like walking in on your naked wife and her lover right before he sticks it in and her saying "but we didn't have sex".

That's because you know they would've if you hadn't caught them at this early stage and put an end to it. Your wife was full steam ahead with "Jennifer" and probably would've had sex with him the night of the party if you hadn't gone with.

And that's something she's going to have to answer for. She was eagerly participating and escalating.

Me: BH, 27 on DDay
Her: WW, 29 on DDay
DDay: Nov 2015
Divorced.

posts: 516   ·   registered: Oct. 15th, 2018
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devotedman ( member #45441) posted at 11:14 PM on Monday, December 17th, 2018

Okay, the lines and ovals part needs more explanation. Draw up her timeline with what she said in the ovals and the lines show the order. Then see if the action (line) between the events (ovals) makes sense.

Like, I always put new women's phone numbers in my phone as "Bob", "Tony", "Theodore", "Frank", etc.

Me: 2xBS b 1962 xWW after 2 decades, xWGF after almost 1.
Amelia Pond: Who are you?
The Doctor: I don't know yet. I'm still cooking.
ENFP-A. Huh.

posts: 5155   ·   registered: Oct. 30th, 2014   ·   location: Central USA
id 8300338
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Robert22205https ( member #65547) posted at 11:14 PM on Monday, December 17th, 2018

I'm a big fan of writing stuff out vs saying it face to face because I tend to loose my temper or get all choked up. Once it's down in writing I can refer back to the precise working during subsequent discussions.

If you send Stevesn's letter points, I suggest you add how you felt out in the parking lot (broken hearted like you just got dumped and cried driving home ...that's why you left because you were broken and feeling your marriage was over)

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Hotdog ( member #58066) posted at 11:15 PM on Monday, December 17th, 2018

Curious to know that the moment you and the OM were nowhere to be found, her phone missing and telling her to come home right away if she figured out that she’s busted.

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HeHadADoubleLife ( member #68944) posted at 11:16 PM on Monday, December 17th, 2018

I think Dan is the one posing the What Ifs. They weren’t included in his wife’s timeline, he’s just saying these are the questions coming up in his mind after reading her timeline.

And yes, those what ifs are very difficult... in the next few days and weeks your mind will probably come up with even more. I’m 6 weeks out from DDay and they creep in all the time.

Keep writing them down. At some point you might want to discuss these with her, but more importantly, writing things down helps you keep things straight in your mind. I’ve found writing down my thoughts as they come up to be very helpful.

Also as you continue to find out more, the newer information will start to supersede the older in your brain. The stuff you found out in the beginning might start to fade away as new information comes to light. Then you’ll be in crisis mode trying to deal with the new information, and all of a sudden the old info will come screaming back to the forefront of your mind without warning. It is a confusing time.

Writing everything down will also come in handy when you go into IC, as this is a turbulent time, and you will be likely to forget some aspects of what has happened. Having it written down will help you remember. I know some of the details might seem trivial to all of us, but there will be aspects of the A that affect you more than others. For me it was the wording of some specific text messages he sent to me, while calling her 3 minutes later. It was easy to forget about that aspect of it when there were so many other things to remember, but when I checked my notes and brought it up with my therapist we ended up spending 20 minutes talking about just that specific text exchange. It turned out to have a lot of significance for me.

Maybe you will find that you have a similar response, and certain aspects of the A will hold more significance for you than others. Like these what ifs. So keep writing.

BW
DDay Nov 2018
Many previous DDays due to his sex addiction

Hurt me with the truth, but don't comfort me with a lie.

Love is never wasted, for its value does not rest upon reciprocity.

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 DaninOH (original poster member #69121) posted at 11:16 PM on Monday, December 17th, 2018

I think I am going to drive to in-laws latter and plant the var in her car and leave her phone on the seat.

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id 8300343
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