SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

...Somewhere in this discussion we should probably discuss the definition of sexual harassment....

I, too, would like a definition of a safe outfit. It cannot include jeans, sweatpants, sweatshirts, oversized tops, turtlenecks, fuzzy boots, or full length down coats, because I have been harassed in all of the above.

"Safe", in this context, does not mean "without risk" it means "safer that other options". People driving well, wearing their seatbelt, sober at 10AM on a beautiful day get in fatal car wrecks every day. So it's not "safe", but it's a heck of a lot safer than driving home from the bar, drunk, in middle of a blizzard, going 100MPH, while texting and not wearing a seatbelt. That guy is going to die, statistically, a LOT faster than our first gentlemen, I'd bet every dollar I have on that one.

Let's take it to extremes. If you walked out of the house right now in a bra, gstring and a smile, how far do you think you'll make it before your harassed? Out of your driveway? End of the block? And now, the other extreme, if you put on a decent pair of jeans and a t shirt, how far will you make it? I'd hazard a guess "A lot further" would be a reasonable conclusion.

I have 4 boys, so I know what happens to them. It seems, however, that some men are trying to negate the female experience of the constant threat of violence from simply being female.

No, not at all. I'm not trying to negate your experience, I'm trying to say that your experience isn't entirely non-relatable to men (or me, speaking personally). I still experience violence, I still experience VERY uncomfortable situations if I walk into certain neighborhoods, and while I won't get raped (most likely), I will get the s**t beaten out of me (and maybe killed) if I go certain places wearing really offensive clothing. The difference I'm hearing is pervasiveness, no, I don't have to deal with this "every minute of every day", I just have to be careful sometimes. But I must say, perhaps because of where I live and how I see my wife operate, I find it difficult to believe that a trip to supermarket wearing "normal clothes" has the expectation of harassment. My W has never said that to me, maybe she just doesn't tell me, but most of the time, what she tells me is the opposite, people won't look at/acknowledge her at all (because she's pretty) rather than "men won't leave me alone".

Rio just because your wife doesn't tell you it happens or it doesn't happen to Her doesn't mean it doesn't happen for other woman.

How many woman DO have to tell you that this goes on daily in grocery stores before you'll believe them?

How many woman DO have to tell you that this goes on daily in grocery stores before you'll believe them?

Hey DH, I'm in grocery stores regularly. How can I identify bad male behavior towards women there? What should I be looking for?

I want to be proactive and call the men who do this out, publicly. I want to be part of the solution.

How many woman DO have to tell you that this goes on daily in grocery stores before you'll believe them?

I DO believe you. I'm desperately sorry that you can't shop without being harassed and assaulted, and I'm completely taken aback at what the world is like for other people and in other locations compared to for me and where I live. It's horrifying to me to think about it and, frankly, I have no idea how you live like that day to day. I guess the only thing I can compare it to for myself, imagine actually living in a the areas where I can't safely walk and then trying to go to the bodega and getting beat to a pulp once a month when I'm unable to diffuse the situation. It sounds like a living hell to me, I'd rather be in prison because at least then I could get solitary and not be beat and assaulted on a regular basis. And that is what would happen if I moved into those neighborhoods, I have absolutely no illusions it would any different. I guess it's just hard to see that the entire country is like the worst neighborhood in Philadelphia for women. But, your right, I don't know otherwise, and I very well may not see it or just turn a blind eye to the women being assaulted around me. That makes me very sad, and even sadder that this is your reality of living wherever you live. I'm deeply sorry, but there are places that appear to not be like that, but, what do I know.

To the ladies here, I too have felt like prey before. When I was 11 I was sent to a school that was of a different and more violent culture, to put it politely I was an Athenian sent to Sparta as an Athenian. I was distinguished simply by the color of my skin as prey and until I convinced them that I was just as efficient as a predator or more so than they were there was hell to pay.

I have thought about how it must feel to live your whole life as prey.

Yes I have stepped in MANY times when I thought somebody was being picked on, it kind of goes along with my KISA problem. (Knight In Shining Armor) I am capable of this because when I was afraid I learned how to fight effectively. Maybe we need to invest in self defense classes so women won't have to walk in fear.

No matter who you are actually dressing to impress I simply see each woman as a work of art and what you wear is the frame for the art. I will look but not in a leering way but just in appreciation of the beauty. I have gone up to women I don't know just to tell them that they are stunning today and to have a nice day and then I will just walk away. I say it with a smile and hope it is received the same way. Haven't had anyone get mad at me yet so maybe I'm doing it right but who knows.

JMO YMMV

I like to wear jeans boot cut, ankle boots, and peasant style tops with bell sleeves. My style and taste hasn't changed since high school. The way I dress reflects who I am inside. I dress modest, because I am modest. That is what God intended. Though I did grow up Baptist and Mennonite. I just don't need or want attention that way.

My mother took me shopping when I started college. I wanted to shop at Christopher & Banks. She wanted me to shop in some other store that had tighter clothes which would show off my mid-drift flat stomach and my chest. She couldn't understand why I wouldn't show off my Barbie figure and marry some rich doctor. I just wanted to be a veterinarian. It shouldn't surprise you that she cheated on all three of her husbands.

Yes, some woman do dress to seduce men. It isn't just the clothing that make up those types of women. It is in their whole moral fiber. The way they dress, they way they act, the way they carry themselves, the way they talk, the way they think, and the way they conduct themselves as a whole package. The clothes don't matter. It is just an outward display of who they are on the inside because who they are on the inside shines through like some sick odor. It is their intentions. It is the immoral soul that shines right through any dollop of makeup or daisy dukes. Immoral for the ones that are already taken and cheat or to cheat with men that are taken. They have no trouble letting men know it. Don't blame it on the clothes. I don't blame it on the men for looking. The cheating type just find each other like two fireflies. Blame it on their indecent destructive characters. If a man falls for that...well, at least you know the type of man you had. She can have him. I would still rather be a lady than a slut dressed in a suit or daisy dukes getting attention from the likes of men that give that sort of attention.

I had friends that dressed provocatively in college. They didn't last long. They were life sucking vampires of emotion and I couldn't stand them. Always needing to be re-affirmed about how they looked. Always complaining about the creeps they would attract. Still choosing to dress that way when Friday came around to catch that "one". Always hoping for that doctor to notice them without realizing that he too was a creep. I don't blame it on the maxi-dresses. I know there are women that dress to prey (I wouldn't dare to imply that is impressing anyone, who they impress just aren't worth it anyhow.)

Rideitout:

And now, the other extreme, if you put on a decent pair of jeans and a t shirt, how far will you make it?

Absolutely further. I still get hit on wearing jeans and a nice blouse though. I have never felt threatened before. Men get the hint when you give them a withering disgusted look back if they continue to behave past a look, whistle, smile, or tasteful comment. I make it clear I am taken. I thank God that I haven't come across a man that would continue. I just assume they think I am a prune and move on to easier targets that would reciprocate their behaviors or they are gentlemen that just show their appreciation and leave it at that. I am a firm believer that men are from Mars and women are from Venus and men are just visual creatures in this degree as Candyman explains. They notice and some might have the gumption to express it. It is understood and acceptable. Just don't go further than that if it is unwanted.

Hey DH, I'm in grocery stores regularly. How can I identify bad male behavior towards women there? What should I be looking for?

I want to be proactive and call the men who do this out, publicly. I want to be part of the solution.

Was this sarcastic or sincere? I'm just not able to tell anymore.

I really shouldn't have to point out what's appropriate behaviour and what isn't. Do you have a wife? Do you have a daughter? Sister? Mother?

Any interaction that crosses personal boundaries, that's creepy that you wouldn't want done to the above mentioned woman in your life is all things every woman would like men to stop doing.

I personally don't get harassed daily as I don't go out daily AND I'm short, stout and have a permanent scowl on my face. I do try to be pleasant. I typically smile alot at everyone. Sometimes I get a smile back. Sometimes a scowl. Sometimes it gets me more attention than I care for. But I read once that a simple smile could change the day of a person having a bad day so I take the risk.

I say thank you to anyone who holds a door for me but I'm also Canadian, comes with the territory lol. Doesn't mean I want to have sex with a guy that holds the door.

When I was younger sure I had guys drooling at me. It was gross. I do recall one guy who tried to grab my bra strap to snap it thinking it was funny. I nearly dislocated his arm from his shoulder. He learned that grabbing a woman caused pain. Don't think he ever did it again. At least not to me.

I don't walk around in fear for my life. I'm completely confident in my abilities to manage any situation. Look I've come face to face with a male black bear. You think men scare me? nope!

I've also taken martial arts and grew up with brothers and a father who would throw a punch to see IF we were actually learning to defend ourselves.

Of course none of it helped with the incidents that happened before that...But I'm now a woman who doesn't take shit. Of course that makes me the biggest bitch around.

DH, it is a completely sincere question. I have a wife, a mother, a sister, three daughters, and a plethora of other female relatives.

I want to know what signs I should be looking for in public to identify the dangerous males. Many of the female posters here have talked about how they are harassed regularly in public, and some about the fear they have felt. I have no reason to doubt them. Why would they lie?

I would have absolutely no problem calling any man out who is doing this to women. I would love to shame them publicly. I would want someone to stand up for my wife or daughters if I was not there.

I don't see catcalling or groping happen at the grocery store. What else should I be looking for?

Gettingoveritall: I have only seen that behavior at concerts with drunk men and women and college parties. Believe it or not, I have been groped by women more than men. My daughter is 10. I know both of those situations will eventually happen. I am doing my best to not be a helicopter parent. Teach your daughters to protect themselves. I think most creeps are cowards. The moment you call them out(at least from my experience), they disappear into the wall paper. Teach your daughters to never drink at parties. They have more to worry about the males closest to them. Creepy uncles, abusive stepfather's, and gross male friends. Statistics show and my personal experience that those closest are the ones to worry about.

Thanks hopefulmother.

I have done everything I can to prepare my daughters (19, 17, & 11) for the realities of life and how men can act. My oldest is a freshman in college, and not a drinker/partier. My 17-year-old is following in her footsteps.

I also have great communication with them. They know they can come talk to their mother or I about anything. They have taken us up on that!

Ok. Sorry. I am on edge today. I'm glad you are sincere.

Well following and watching is creepy. If someone wants to talk to me that's one thing but to be followed around, seeing him turn away when I look towards him is not ok. Makes me wonder what he's planning. Being followed from one store to another or having the same vehicle follow me everywhere I went and follow me home was nerve wracking.

Again this hasn't happened to me in a long time. And I'm not what most men would call attractive so...I don't get catcalled. I have been moo'd at. I've had men motion to their chest like they were grabbing boobs while smiling at me. I'm large in the chest. I've also caught guys staring at my chest. Ok ya go ahead and look but don't stare so long that your own wife/so gets mad.

My biggest problem is leaving the bank. There's usually one or two guys who try to get into a conversation about how hard off they are and they need money. Not so bad when you say no and they say ok. Totally not cool when they get up into your face about it. Well in my case he had to bend down but I was firm and walked away, keys in hand.

Funny enough none of these guys bothered the man who left the bank ahead of me.

Home invasions are also becoming frequent here. We are located far from the road. I'm home alone all day. They scope out the house ahead of time. Wait for just the right time.

The community page has listed incidents that have been reported to police recently. It's scary.

I have gone up to women I don't know just to tell them that they are stunning today and to have a nice day and then I will just walk away. I say it with a smile and hope it is received the same way. Haven't had anyone get mad at me yet so maybe I'm doing it right but who knows.

For me, that's totally cool and would make me smile too. I personally give that same compliment out to women when I see them looking particularly good and put together. Just so long as we're not in a business negotiation or a professional situation of some sort, that is a nice compliment.

Obviously, "nice tits" isn't going to be the way to do it, lol.

When I get dressed, my goals are:

-Wearing something appropriate for where I am going. If I'm going to work, I need to wear scrubs or business casual attire. If I'm going to church, I need to wear clothing appropriate for church.

-Wearing something comfortable

-Wearing something that makes me feel good, confident, and pretty.

Whether or not others find me attractive in what I am wearing is not anything that I consider anymore. I want to walk by a mirror and feel good about how I look. If others think I look good, that is cool, but also irrelevant.

I do NOT like being complimented on my body. At all. Good or bad. It makes me feel incredibly uncomfortable.

I do NOT like when others stare at me (good or bad). It makes me feel out of place, and again, very uncomfortable. I do not like being the center of attention at all, and I find it incredibly creepy and off putting when men hit on me if I haven't sent a really clear signal that I'm into it. It really makes me feel like I am doing something wrong.

I don't think there is anything wrong with dressing for attention. But it is not something that I do.

Recently, I was wearing leggings while out with a friend. A man who I did not know came up behind me and groped my butt. I called the police and pressed charges. When I spoke to another friend about this, her response was, "Okay, but why were you wearing leggings?"

Because leggings are comfortable.

Wearing leggings did not give anyone the right to oogle at my body, or give consent to touch my body.

Teach your daughters to protect themselves. I think most creeps are cowards. The moment you call them out(at least from my experience), they disappear into the wall paper. Teach your daughters to never drink at parties.

Absolutely not.

We don't fix this problem by teaching girls to modify their behavior in order to avoid being harassed.

I have taught my 10 year old to call out creepy men- whether it's a comment, a look, general behavior- publicly and loudly. MAKE A SCENE. Make sure that man does not leave without the entire fucking store staring at him and knowing that he is disgusting and rape-y.

I have taught my 10 year old that if someone even so much as grazes her backside without her consent, that is assault. Treat it as such. Call the police, report it, press charges.

When my daughter gets to be of age, if she wants to have a drink, she absolutely fucking can. It is not her responsibility to modify HER appropriate behavior in order to avoid being harassed/assaulted/raped. It's men's responsibility not to feel entitled to women and until we start teaching sons that even if a woman is piss ass drunk, that woman owes him NOTHING and does not exist on this earth for his viewing pleasure, nothing will change.

I guess we should all wear burkas.

I guess we should all wear burkas.

Unfortunately women wearing burkas get harassed and raped, too.

"Unfortunately women wearing burkas get harassed and raped, too."

Yes, I know. I was being sarcastic about the idea that there is any safe way to dress.

I think I found the necessary articles & accessories of the "safe" outfit everyone is arguing about. 🤣