SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Cap, that outfit doesn't even have a helmet. You call that safe?

It does have protective eyewear, firenze. So there's that...

CaptainRogers!

I was thinking about the burka thing some more. A lot of women who wear burkas dress very nicely underneath, sometimes even sexy. They wear lacy underwear and fancy dresses and sometimes even high heels.

Whom do you suppose they are doing that for? Maybe for their husbands, but certainly not for random men or other women or external validation.

t is not her responsibility to modify HER appropriate behavior in order to avoid being harassed/assaulted/raped. It's men's responsibility not to feel entitled to women and until we start teaching sons that even if a woman is piss ass drunk, that woman owes him NOTHING and does not exist on this earth for his viewing pleasure, nothing will change.

Yeah. I am with my wife. We will choose to teach our daughter to be safe and plan for the predators instead of saying it is the predators responsibility to not be a predator. There will always be predators. I guess you let your 6year walk to school and told her it wasn't her responsibility to be safe. It was the pedophiles responsibility to not be a pedophile or kidnapper. If you read it, she did say to call the creeper out. Or to leave the drink unattended because it isn't her responsibility to not be naive and trust that others will be genuine in their motives. What the fuck is wrong with being proactive? Just because you are proactive of your safety doesn't mean you aren't holding assholes accountable.

What the fuck is wrong with being proactive? Just because you are proactive of your safety doesn't mean you aren't holding assholes accountable.

And, perhaps even more importantly, being proactive works a lot better than saying "there shouldn't be assholes in this world". While I don't disagree with the last statement, the reality is, there are assholes. A lot of them. So do what works, be proactive, and react to the world as it is, not as you (and I) wish it were.

I don't sit around and think "man, you know, people shouldn't do drugs, and therefore, I shouldn't have to worry about getting jacked in certain neighborhoods getting gas". I think "it sucks, but it happens, so let's make sure I've got 17 in the clip so that I don't get killed if someone decides to try to roll me for the 50 bucks I have in my pocket. And to the point of this thread, so I don't have to shoot someone, how about we leave the Ferrari at home and not draw a ton of attention when I drive into a rough neighborhood. I guess I could pack extra clips and say "f**k you, I have every right to be here and I'll shoot any MF'er who looks at me sideways fueling my Ferarri". It's a reasonable option, but, I'm a LOT more likely to get killed if I go into the hood guns blazing in an effort to assert my right to fuel my vehicle anywhere I damn well please. I DO have that right, and I should NOT have to worry about it. But I do, and that's just the reality of it.

[This message edited by Rideitout at 10:02 AM, April 5th (Friday)]

I really think all we're asking for is for guys to hold each other accountable, that if this is done females might feel and be safer, including your daughters, wives and mothers.

really think all we're asking for is for guys to hold each other accountable

How exactly am I supposed to hold someone I don't know accountable? Hell, I couldn't talk my ww into not cheating if she wanted to again. Think I'm being assigned too much responsibility here with no authority to make it happen. I'm gonna need some mind control super powers or something.

How exactly am I supposed to hold someone I don't know accountable? Hell, I couldn't talk my ww into not cheating if she wanted to again. Think I'm being assigned too much responsibility here with no authority to make it happen. I'm gonna need some mind control super powers or something.

You could intercede if a woman gets cat-called in front of you on the street. Just for starters....

I could get my ass kicked for doing that. You paying my bills if that happens?

I can tell you, NTV, that any time a guy does that that I see or hear I will call them out. Maybe if enough of us do it, they'll stop. Times are different now with certain movements giving women (and I hope men) courage to call folks on their sexual bullshit.

I could get my ass kicked for doing that. You paying my bills if that happens?

Oh well, we’ll just have to keep doing it for ourselves then. And making noises about it.

I could get my ass kicked for doing that. You paying my bills if that happens?

Yeah, this is big part of why, IMHO, guys try not to get involved in it. Now, first off, the last time I saw this happen, I'm not sure, it's been a long time. But, the only place I can recall it happening in really rough neighborhoods (beyond a long glance, that happens everywhere, I'm talking about harassment here, a guy walking up to a woman, and making repeated, unwanted sexual advances). Basically, "the hood". And while I feel terrible in that situation, fact of the matter is, if I do step in, there's a real good chance someone is gonna get shot. Me, him, someone. Now, if I saw a guy in a suit/tie doing it, yeah, I'd walk up and tell him "knock that shit off" and he probably would, but, I've never seen that (again, beyond the longing look and perhaps making a pass and getting blown out).

But what it seems a lot of women are taking about here, full blown, one step from rape sexual harassment, well stepping into the middle of that means getting physical with a really, really bad dude. You feel like this guy is gonna rape you? Well, he's likely to shoot me. And it's usually not one guy, it's a group of guys, likely all armed, and just looking for an excuse to shoot. The best person to diffuse that situation peacefully, I hate to say, is the woman. Blow them off, move on. Bat their hands away. Call the cops (which I would do too if I saw it getting physical). But me stepping into that, well, that's a whole different level of commitment and one I'm not sure I'm willing to make. You going to hop out of your car and start pushing them around when you see a group of guys pistol whipping me on the street for my Rolex? Because that's what your asking if we're talking about "bad dudes" doing this. Yeah, if it's your run of the mill, had to much to drink rich asshole who's being pushy, yes, I'd step in and I have, "dude, she's not interested, let's go find someone better looking" works really well for diffusing that situation and I've done that. But once you start going into the class of people who if you call on it as another man that are going to get violent, well.. I hate to say it, but, no, I'm not getting involved in that because my involvement almost guarantees that some "ultra-violence" is in the very near future and I'm either going to wind up hurt real bad, dead or with a smoking gun in my hand.

You could intercede if a woman gets cat-called in front of you on the street. Just for starters...

Made me remember something about my affair. I walked into a bar to meet my AP co-workers. Some men across the bar from them were acting like jerks calling them teases and some such shit. I stuck up for my APs and the men said something back about it and me being 4-eyes what am I going to do about it. Get your girlfriend a leash. Yeah, real mature and original. I later learned from text messages from AP2 at another bar that my APs were leading them on and being teases and the men were calling them out for their behavior. They thought it was funny to lead them on that I stuck up for them and almost got my ass kicked.

Though point made. I generally always let my wife stick up for herself. She is like that. She never needed a white knight to her rescue. She didn't appreciate that I stuck up for my APs when they brought on the situation.

"But what it seems a lot of women are taking about here,"

no, not at all. I'm talking about leering guys in the grocery store line, elbow bumps when a gal walks by in the gym, guys talking about the new hire in the break room.

My husband has received a couple texts from employees about business women they come in contact with. IT makes me sick. He wrote back how inappropriate the comment was.

Not sure what my point is. Mixed messages I guess. You are damned if you do and you are damned if you don't. Some women don't think they need rescued. Some want it. I guess I will just be a gentleman and just stick up for them if I ever see that. I don't think I have seen that behavior since my RUSH concert years ago and at the bar with the APs. I live in the rural suburbs and men don't act that way.

I’m pretty assertive too. Came out best in a mugging situation once so can look after myself.

Re the catcalling. Pretty crappy when everybody looks the other way though and leaves you to it.

Don’t need white knight, just friendly support and acknowledgement really that ‘they’ are **”£&#**

Everyone needs to start sticking up for everyone. That's why we live in groups and societies. There is strength in numbers.

I once saw a woman hit her toddler so hard that she knocked him down. I stopped, started at her, and pulled out my phone to call the police. She started yelling at me in a very aggressive, threatening manner. My oldest son was with me. I told him to run home. I could very well have gotten my ass beat or even been killed, but I wasn't going to turn a blind eye to a child being abused.

Children are now being told to intervene when they see bullying. They are risking physical harm when they do, but it's the right thing to do.

Yesterday, I saw a woman wearing a very tight, spaghetti strap dress, make up, and a hajib. She also had on a long sleeved shirt under the dress. She had her toddler in a stroller. She was very attractive. Do you think she thought she'd put on that tight dress and go out and see how much male attention she could get? I seriously doubt it.

BTW, I'm taking one of my boys to the barber today. I assume there will be lots of men there. What should I wear?

Yeah, and I would hope I'd do the same thing. I see a sexual assault/rape? Yeah I'm calling the police.

Catcalling? Depends on the situation. I'd imagine that if its from some guys that are working when they do it an eeo complaint against their company would go further in curbing the behavior than me saying something one time.

Nobody's offered a definition for sexual harassment yet...

What the fuck is wrong with being proactive?

There isn't anything at all wrong with being proactive.

There IS something wrong with telling girls that they shouldn't attend parties or drink as a way of being proactive.

It's a balance.

Unfortunately, too much onus is put on women to prevent themselves from getting attacked.

This is what I am against. Sure, teach your daughter to be aware of her surroundings. But also teach her that her being attacked isn't anything she is responsible for, nor is it something she can ultimately prevent.

I can tell you, NTV, that any time a guy does that that I see or hear I will call them out. Maybe if enough of us do it, they'll stop. Times are different now with certain movements giving women (and I hope men) courage to call folks on their sexual bullshit.

THIS all day.

Nobody is asking men to single handedly approach a rapist with a gun and get shot.

But if you hear "locker room talk," saying, "hey, dude, that is gross," is really not unreasonable. Someone is going to beat you up for that? Really?