SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

LP,

how are your children? have you talked to them about anything? was wondering if they are aware of the changes between you both?

Your strength & focus is amazing...stay strong for you & your babies

Thanks Scooby! The kids seem to be doing fine and they haven't asked me any questions about what's going on with me and WH. I'm sure they notice that something is off though. There's been zero physical affection between myself and WH, where normally we'd be kissing, hugging, cuddling on the couch, etc. My 13 year old is a typical self absorbed teenager, so I don't think he really cares unless it's something that will directly affect his life, such as we're divorcing or we're moving, etc. My daughter is 6 though and is very much up our butts all day LOL. So I'm just waiting for her to start asking questions. I've been trying to act as normal as possible in front of them but I know eventually they'll see things have changed. I can't really tell them we're divorcing though since they would talk to WH about it, which I can't have them doing until I'm ready. If they start asking questions, I'll just tell them that we're going through a bit of a rough patch but that everything is going to be fine and they don't need to worry.

I admire your strength in not giving anything away to him till you have things in place, especially that you haven’t allowed it to effect your kids.

I really hope it works in your favour 🤞

I’m currently in 180 up & down like a bloody yo-yo, I can’t seem to find the focus & strength you have so good for u

So I now know for sure he doesn't plan to leave on his own. Yesterday he made another comment about needing money in his separate account in case I decide to kick him out again. It looks like he's just leaving it up to me. This morning he made another stupid jealous comment. After I got out of the shower, he goes "What took so long, you shaving your legs for your new boyfriend?" Ignored. He's such a moron. I think he's really starting to see that he went too far and that I'm not tolerating his bullshit anymore. He'd normally be continuing with his threats to leave, but he sees now that I don't give a shit anymore so he doesn't know what to do. It's weird to me though that he's not planning on moving out, but yet hasn't tried to make up with me and hasn't asked if he can start sleeping in the bed again. Is he just planning on sleeping on the couch forever in this weird limbo? I feel like I'm in a Mexican standoff.

@Scoobydoo, I know outwardly I may seem to have it together, but trust me, I'm a complete mess internally. I struggle every day to stay the course. I do still love him and wish so much he'd come to his senses but I doubt he ever will. The only thing keeping me on track is my sense of pride and my stubborn streak. I refuse to show any weakness or vulnerability to this man anymore. I've poured my heart out so many times and it was all for nothing. I won't make that mistake again.

Perhaps he doesnt like to be alone, and would only truly leave if he wanted to go to AP? My WS didn’t leave on her own, I kicked her out on Dday. I don’t think they like the thought of being alone, therefore stay unless there’s backup.

I actually think of a cousin I have when I say this, he’s a grown man in his 40’s that cheats on his wife constantly...(she’s aware) and I remember one day she had to leave out of town for the night which meant he had to be home alone that day...he became frantic about it. Asking me to stay the night or to sleep on my couch bc he didn’t want to be alone. It’s weird. Sort of makes sense I guess though considering they wouldn’t even leave us when they should have and cheated instead.

My WS said she didn’t leave me because of what she got from me. A sense of security, love, protection, structure...but she wanted AP bc AP made her feel powerful, smart, in control, and wanted. I dunno. It’s like she was pulling two people together to make herself whole. Being alone is her biggest fear, because she’d have to face herself.

@maise, that makes sense but I don't know if that's really what's keeping him around... This man was single for years before we got together. I'm the first real serious relationship he's ever had. He was 29 when we started dating, so it's not like he didn't have life experience. He does love getting attention, but he's not getting any from me right now so I don't think it's that either. He dated/ hooked up with lots of women, but never settled down. I'm the first woman he's ever lived with or even introduced to his family. So I don't think he's scared to be alone. Also, the girl I caught him sexting with is not the type of girl he'd ever date seriously. He might use her for sex but that's about it. However, there could be a new AP who I don't know about. Maybe he's just waiting and hoping I'll start groveling and being up his ass again? If so, hell will freeze over before that happens!

I’m really glad you’ve been protecting yourself through this process the way you have. You’re probably right in your last comment about him waiting for you to do what he was used to you doing before. Glad you’re not! If one thing’s for sure with him it’s that he’s still refusing to see himself. Still likely using people to avoid seeing himself. What you’ve done in removing yourself from him as one of those people is such a great way to show up for you.

I'm a little late to this thread but wanted to chime in a couple of points.

1st, I'm posting as a former (I hope) abusive husband myself. I slapped my wife 23 years ago and then 8 years ago, I shoved her into a wall and threw her on floor. In neither case did I think, "Oh I just abused her a little bit, it's not a big deal." It IS a big deal. Kudos to you for following the advice on the thread and NOT letting him minimize it. Wife went to the ER to get checked out and notified the police. Best thing she could have done for me. Dealing with the consequences of MY decisions was very eye-opening. Just in case it gets that far, know that if he has to go to jail, that's not on you.

2nd, have you read / seen the book "The Emotionally Abusive Relationship" by Beverly Engel? It has sections for both the victim and the abuser (if he ever pries his head out). I found it very helpful.

Sending you hugs.

Icewraith, thank you so much for your perspective. I'll definitely check out that book, and I'll tell him to as well if he pulls his head out of his ass!

Last night he humbly asked me if I'm ever going to want him up in the bed with me again. He said he won't try to sleep upstairs unless I tell him I want him there with me, since he doesn't want to just assume. He said I don't need to answer him now and he's not trying to pressure me but just was letting me know that he would like to be back in our bedroom. I just kind of shrugged my shoulders and went back upstairs. Then I sent him a text this morning asking if he wanted me or just wanted the bed. He replied saying of course he misses me.

I'm not going to lie... I do miss him too. Deep down, I want him to beg my forgiveness and tell me he'll do anything I want him to. I can see now he really doesn't want to leave and was just trying to gain the upper hand. Now he knows that's not happening.

What do you all think I should do at this point? Just lay it all out on the table, that these are the things he needs to do for me to consider staying together? I still love him :(

What would you tell your daughter (or son) if they were in your shoes??

I think you know what you need to do.

" I still love him :("

love yourself more. That means being with someone who recognizes his own mistakes and gets help for them. Currently, he is not.

Expressing his desire to come back to your bed, and “of course” missing you too ( ) is simply a request that you rugsweep all he has done. He has not apologized for either the infidelity or the abuse (both mental and physical), nor done any work to make changes in himself. It is ACTIONS that matter and his basket is empty right now.

I know in the core of your heart you are still hoping to reconcile, but insist that he prove to you that he can be a safe partner. Ask him to read the book recommended above and also Linda McDonald’s “How to Help Your Spouse Heal From Your Affair” (free pdf on-line and an eye-opening read for both of you). Tell him that IC for him is necessary for you to feel safe. If finances are a problem tell him to take back the games he bought. And there are community resources also. If he refuses to do any of these things that tells you he just wants to rug-sweep and you need to kick him out.

Now is when you need to be strong, for the temptation to accept half-measures will be powerful. Resist the hopium and insist on demonstrable proof that he “gets it.”

And really think about what you said before, that physical violence was a bright line you could never get past. Is that still true for you? He minimized that as a “dummy slap” and ignores having cornered you or squeezing your face. Right now he is not reconciliation material. I am not saying he cannot get there, but he won’t unless you draw clear lines about what you need from him. Nagging him should be off the table, because if you have to do that he is not doing the work and is not safe. But write out your demands, starting with the McDonald book, and including full transparency too, and then watch to see if he steps up.

[This message edited by Odonna at 9:44 AM, May 10th (Friday)]

What do you all think I should do at this point? Just lay it all out on the table, that these are the things he needs to do for me to consider staying together? I still love him :(

Ask yourself honestly - do you still want to be catching him being inappropriate with OW in the future? Can you accept that if you confront him, you will likely be slapped again? If you can agree to allow him to do whatever he wants and pray he doesn't leave you from one of these OW, then do exactly what you're doing. To me that sounds soul crushing. But if you don't want to share your husband and don't want to be physically abused for talking to him about it then I suggest you keep looking for ways out of this marriage.

Lp, he's being clear with you - he's not going to change. He doesn't even think he's in the wrong about the OW or about hitting you. He will do it again. You rugswept this before and he kept doing it. He will never stop. If he truly believes you will leave by you showing him you will leave, he MIGHT stop but right now you're setting yourself up for more abuse and disappointment.

My mother was beaten up by my dad on enough occasions (in front of the kids and behind closed doors) that I struggle to recall "normal" days now. I was your six year old daughter who felt the energy of violence I couldn't see. A smack on the head? Pushed in the corner? Fear transfers.

You must NOT forgive too quickly. While I teach classes that people are not disposable, neither should you dispose of your own feelings of worthlessness immediately after he hit you. You are also valuable, and until and unless your husband SEEKS forgiveness and help to overcome his need for power-over, your daughter will feel and witness much more fear in her "safe place".

What do you all think I should do at this point? Just lay it all out on the table, that these are the things he needs to do for me to consider staying together? I still love him :(

Of course you do, it's hard for feelings to switch completely.

IMHO, a LONG OVERDUE apology would be Step F@#king ONE. At the very least. Anything other than that, I see as rug-sweeping and manipulation.

(Followed by getting himself into counseling AND reading the resources you have.)

What has changed? Has he gotten himself into a treatment program? Signed up for anger management? He's been stomping around and acting like a victim since the incident. If all he has to do is behave like a human being for a couple of days, what's to stop him from hitting you again if he gets angry enough?

Words are cheap. Actions are meaningful.

Thank you all for snapping me back to reality! I think I was just so relieved to see him humble himself a little that I thought there was a chance for real remorse on his part. But really, he has done nothing to show he gives a shit about me. For now, I will leave him to sweat it out on the couch for awhile longer. I'm in no rush to talk to him about anything. He should realize on his own that he owes me a huge apology, and if he can't even do that then screw him.

I love him, but you're all right that I need to love myself more. I already feel so much more strong and powerful and brave. I won't ever allow him to bully me again. If he comes to me on his own and gives me a sincere apology, then I'll tell him what my requirements are to even consider saving the marriage:

- He goes to IC weekly

- He goes back to the doc to get treatment for his anxiety issues

- He answers all my questions openly and honestly without getting defensive

- He reads the books you all suggested.

- He understands that doing these things doesn't guarantee I will forgive him or stay married to him. I have to decide on my own if I want that, but I can't even consider it without him doing the things I ask.

At this point, unless I see some major changes I am continuing with my plan to divorce him as soon as I have enough for the down payment (I'm pretty close already!). Even if he gets help, I don't know if I'll ever feel the same way about him again. I'm slowly becoming less afraid of being alone. I've been imagining my life without him, and it doesn't make me feel sick anymore. In fact, I know I'll be just fine!

Is there anything else I should add to the list of requirements for him?

[This message edited by Lp0725 at 11:58 AM, May 10th (Friday)]

Hey Lp,

Have you told him these requirements already? If not, give him the list if he apologizes. If so, I don't see the point in reiterating them.

I think you should continue detaching and observing. If he starts putting forth the effort, it will be obvious.

Stay strong!

It’s so easy to remember who you fell in love with and want that back. Please remember he has changed for the worst. He has become a liar, a cheater and he hit you. If he isn’t doing the work with an IC to understand why he did these things then he isn’t going to be a safe partner.

@Gettingoveritall, I have not given him the list yet because I don't see the point if he's not even trying to fix the relationship. If he gives me a sincere apology, then I'll hand him the list and tell him if he's not willing to meet my requirements, then I'm perfectly fine with us divorcing.

I've realized that this marriage is currently not meeting ANY of my needs. I need to feel loved, wanted, safe, secure, and respected. If he can't meet my needs, then I'm better off alone. As much as it would suck to go through a divorce, it beats the alternative by a long shot.