SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Well not sure if anyone remembers me, I told my story back in March, I'm sure you can find it. I was not ready to handle things the right way, I let my feelings toward my wife and the love of my family play the pick me dance. She did pick me and broke it off with him. MC didnt last and things regressed. Got D Day #2 last Monday(this time from the AP's wife) They had been back at it for more than 2 months, the same amount of time things had been regressing. Well this time I have not done the pick me dance, I told everybody about what had been going on, I told the kids we were divorcing, I met with Lawyer and am on a waiting list for an apartment. I am ready to move on and be with someone who treats me better. But my wife is scared and is talking about trying to make it work. I have told her that there is no chance until I see effort on her part, until then I am still moving out. Before n here I was called out for playing divorce card, I did legitimately bring up divorce not as a card but as an idea. I now fully believe I want out, but her talk of reconciliation is making me hesitant. I have made no promises and I have not stopped any of my plans. But I have to wonder if reconciliation is the right thing or not.

I know exactly what I need to see from her, and right now I'm not seeing it. But I know her I know she will start to reconcile, but will not be able to go all in to make this work. I wasnt ready to hear it before, all I wanted was for it to work. I know now the best thing for me to have done then was to leave just as I am now. I wasnt ready, I am now fully confident in myself and no longer dealing with the feelings of inadequacy that she put into my head after DDay#1. I swore that I would be done if there was a DDay#2. So why do I keep entertaining her talk of reconciliation, despite my belief that she cant do it?

It’s scary to look at finances and other parts of reality but that’s what she brought on herself.

No one can tell you what to do. What you can ask yourself if you want to be the marriage police for the rest of your life.

Others will have more personal suggestions. Mine would be to look after your health. Stress can be a killer.

I know I can give her my trust, but I certainly do believe she would be capable of doing it again. I really do not want to put myself in that situation. But I know the risks if I do. Sometimes it feels worth it other times it doesn't. I honestly want her to just be done with us so I can move on. I know I have complete control over my actions and my future and not her. Leaving her and the family I'd the easy thing to do. I will find happiness elsewhere. I feel like I have a big choice to make. You are right,I need to think about myself and if I want to take the chance on D Day 3

Keep going down the path you are on. Separate, move toward D. It usually takes months or a year. During that time your feelings will become clearer. Probably toward D. But if R is still a thought, you can look at her and see if she has worked on herself and done her best to pursue healing you---- even from a distance. If she has, you could consider trying R if that is how you feel once stabilized months down the road. Or you just move forward and D.

Keep moving ahead toward D. I filed for D three weeks after learning of my fWW’s ONS and we separated with little contact for five months. She tracked me down and pleaded for a second chance. What convinced me to try R was the massive changes she made to save our M. We have been happily in R for decades.

My point is to always value yourself. Do not settle for half-assed effort on her part. She has to earn her way back. You are the prize. As for worrying about future infidelity. If you are the type of person who will always fret and worry no matter how remorseful and committed she becomes, then R is not worth it. No one who attempts to R knows if their WS will cheat again. It is always a leap of faith. Keep following your path. You are doing well.

Stick to your guns, Lost. No R until you see her taking ACTIONS you need for R. Not words. She tricked you before with words. Don't fall for it again.

Is full transparency of her phone, email, social media, etc. on that list of things you need to see? If not, include it. Whatever she did to carry on the A giving you DDay #2 is something you will need access to before you can even think about R being a possibility.

Re-reading your threads, what jumped out for me was that we dont know how long her A has been going on. When did it start? Do you have a timeline? From the timeline, it sounds like she may have been cheating for years?

We also dont know how you learned on DDay 1.

My overall impression is that you have been scrambling, on your own, to convince your WW to stop her A and commit herself, both feet in, to marriage with you. In response, the best you've gotten is some waffling, a couple of ersatz periods of "detaching", and, leading up to this post, a few months of continued dishonesty.

In your first thread, you said: "I am just not sure how many ways I can use the D card."

I, and others, came down hard on you for that. Here, you are asking why it seems hard to D, especially if she is saying things that give you reason to sniff some lines of hopium.

The reason you are reluctant is because D is hard. But true R is also hard, perhaps harder than D. More to the point, R is not an option if the WW is not 100% committed.

My advice to you, in the strongest terms, is to file your D and start the process. It's not irrevocable. It takes about a year, you can dismiss if you change your mind. Heck, there are couples who divorce and remarry. But base on what you have told us to date, there is zero chance of R with your WW in her current state of mind.

What convinced me to try R was the massive changes she made to save our M.

Can I ask what these were? It would be helpful to know. I’m struggling mightily.

Hi Thumos:

We were very young, no kids, and our M was very one-sided. We were the Prom Queen and the Nerd who got M. My fWW’s infidelity occurred in our fifth year of M. She pretty much did what she wanted and went out when she wanted. She missed the social rapture of college sorority life.

After I filed for D, I went on and lived my life. Because of my FOO issues I wanted nothing to do with being M to a cheater. Her ONS occurred at her Employer’s Christmas Party. She confessed immediately.

Five months later after being separated she tracked me down. She had quit her job and apologized to those involved for her behavior that night. She asked for input from other women at work how she came across. They told her flirtatious and available. She got a new job. Changed her dress, more professional, changed her hair, changed her attitude and presentation at work. She went to counseling to figure out what was broken in her. She gave me dozens and dozens of notes written out describing why she loved me and wanted the M. She dumped all of her party animal toxic friends. She started doing volunteer work to help less fortunate ones. She did all of this even though there was no guarantee I would call off the D. She told me she missed our connection and she had always been pursued by guys, but when I moved on quickly without pursuing, she really felt the need to pursue me. She didn’t like getting dumped.

Hope that helps.

I have told her that there is no chance until I see effort on her part

This is a clear signal to your WW of your basic fear of such a radical change and she will use it to screw you over time and time again until you decide you've had enough. You can make that decision now and go through with divorce or you can continue trying to R and busting her again and trying to R and....well, you get the picture. Serial cheaters don't change - they just get better at hiding it...

But my wife is scared and is talking about trying to make it work

This is not remorse - please know that.

It is very hard to R after DDay1 occurs, the cheater sees the Betrayed spouse’s pain and chooses to continue the Affair. That is a cold calculated move.

I experienced the same exact situation. No remorse at DDay1. But when I decided it was time to walk away - he realized he pushed me too far. And things got real very quickly.

He made immediate and noticeable changes that I continue to see 6 years later.

I hope your wife starts to wake up. And realize what she needs to do to start making amends. On her own. Without YOU telling her what to do and how to do it.

I think your focus might be distracted by the question of whether or not your WW will continue to cheat. The more important question is whether you can ever respect her as a partner again. She's done nothing to earn that. In fact, she took the opportunity that you gave her and doubled down on her deceit.

No matter what you want, no matter what she wants... reconciliation doesn't work without mutual respect. Clearly she doesn't have any for you, otherwise she wouldn't have gone back to her affair. But even more important is the question of whether or not you can ever respect her again after everything she's done. It's not as easy as one would think because it's NOT just about the WS earning it. It's also about whether we, as BS, are capable of making that leap (or if we even want to).

How about you consult with a lawyer to make sure moving out is not detrimental to your potential D.

Then move out and go NC. What I read from your story is that you are very attached to you WW, and it prevents you from making good decisions for yourself. Going NC might help you to take better decisions for yourself.

To repeat fareast advice: always value yourself.

I swore that I would be done if there was a DDay#2

Okay well then "be done"

So why do I keep entertaining her talk of reconciliation, despite my belief that she cant do it?

You should perhaps get some IC to answer why you value yourself so much lower than you value her.

I re-read your story and I remember when you were here. Folks told you then that what you were doing wouldn't work and that you would have a D-Day#2. You got angry at well-meaning people and walked away. Far enough. It is hard sometimes to take advice that goes so much against what you want. Are you willing to take not only advice from here but what your own head is telling you?

You say this:

I know exactly what I need to see from her, and right now I'm not seeing it

It's been 6 months since D-Day #1. You're not going to see it if you haven't seen it yet.

Also a question for you. In your original post you said that the AP had left his wife for yours. Was that not true? Who told you that? Is the AP now back with his wife?

Lost,

The relapse back into the affair does not bode well. But, WSs have, at times, been known to "wake up." Even if she does, you may decide that D-Day #2 was too much.

But if you want to really assess whether she is DOING the work, read "How to Help Your Spouse Heal from Your Affair" by Linda MacDonald. It is a pithy, powerful primer on what a WS must DO to rebuild a marriage. Read it first and mark it up and give it to her. You don't have to say or do anything more; whether she reads it and takes its advice will become apparent soon enough.

Many others here also will tell you that SHE has to lead her own recovery; this is not about you making demands and monitoring her. The book will give her the template and you just watch and see what she does with it. Meanwhile commence the D process and watch what she DOES while that is moving forward.

All the best to you....

Did she offer to give up her hobby???

What consequence did she suffer for cheating.

She used the training and hobby as a cover story therefore the hobby should be forfeit.

In any event, file for divorce ... if there's convincing action (not her promises) on her part you can always delay the process.

Distance between spouses is just an excuse to justify cheating ... that does not explain why did she choose to cheat?

Among other things cheating is enabled by a selfish, entitled, and deceitful personality (with no empathy for the spouse). Unfortunately there is no 'off' switch for the above characteristics.

Distance yourself in order to protect yourself.

[This message edited by Robert22205https at 3:18 PM, September 24th (Tuesday)]

LostSurvivor33,

Its funny how people on here will say they can't tell you what to do, or you are your own person and you decide, but you're on here to get our collective wisdom b/c we're a part of this club that no one ever wants to be a part of.

Not sure if youre a gambling man, but even if you're not, you should look at the glaring odds. It should guide you to know what you should do. We all know, sometimes the things that we should do, and are the best for us is not the easiest choice, and not the sexiest option. Like eating veges. No one likes eating, but you know it'll be good for your health long term.

In your case, you WW has already gone back and betrayed you a second time. You know her best, and don't believe she'll be able to do the work that will result in full R. Part of that reason is b/c you still remain hopeful. We call that Hopium around here, and just like that name suggest its not good for you long term. You know, those hits of sugar taste good, but are really not great for you long term, but yet, you're still gonna want that taste.

I think you're heart just hasnt caught up with your head yet. At some point, it will. This site is about getting out of infidelity, and the best way to do that, is to move on quickly, file D. Maybe she gets her head out of the sand, but you've witness first hand that she may stick her head back in there. The problem with WWs is that they need attention. Thats what gets them in trouble in the first place. Positive, male attention. You don't give it one day, and someone else shows up who does, you find yourself back here on this site. What are you telling and showing your WW when after each time you just take her back. What are you teaching your kids if you have some with her. And if you don't, knows the perfect time to exit stage left.

The last thing about R is, even though it works for some people on this site, as I mentioned gambling above, R mostly doesn't work. By and large, most people on this site don't R successfully. Some who do go down the path of R, find themselves back on her, or just end up giving up. Do you want to waste more of your time with this lady.

Even in the case where it does work, in the case of Fareast, they're still on this site even though they've successfully R decades ago. Decades....... thats a long time and to still be around the infidelity forum. This is not a slight or jab at Fareast, please don't take it that way. You just have to ask yourself LostSurvivor, WTF would you want this in your head and to be around a infidelity site yrs and yrs from now? Again, nothing against those that have successfully R, but this gift of infidelity we've all been given affects us for a very long time. For life even. I don't see how with an unworthy WW you'd even contemplate holding off on D. Its a tough road ahead, and too many times I see members who have been on here for yrs, or have infidelity issues that have been decades ago. I ask myself WHY? Life is short. Become a survivor, and cut it out of your life. IT may leave scar, but at least this cancer when you cut it out won't come back to kill you a second time.

Morning Lost,

First of all I am so sorry for your predicament and ongoing pain.

After reading all of your posts, she has had ample opportunities to move on through councillors, friends and her support structure to get out of her affair fog and start healing you and her family for the selfish act of betrayal.

However, she has chosen to reconnect with her AP to continue the lie of her marriage. She is willing to put you and her children at risk of a STD/STI. As just a kiss can pass on a infection.

Please continue to seek legal assistance and have her served. The D process can be stopped at any time.

She has to be made accountable for her actions, so far she has had minimal consequences, more of a discomfort for her.

You and your children are the top priority, support IC for them, IC for you.

Why are you having to move out?

She is too busy with her training and AP to look after your children. It is up to you to care for them! She sound like a ‘me me me type of person, just self centred’.

Start the 180 now!

Wait for her to come home next, and without comment, argument or yelling. Pack her a bag and place it at the front door. Tell her she has put you ‘not in a good place’ and that it would be better for you and the children if she moved out for a period of time.

This is where she can start working on herself. Self reflection IC etc She has to show you she can make you feel safe again. When she has proven this then she can be a family again,

If she really wants to.

I don’t know her but am thinking this is her exit A.

Take care one day at a time brother.

B4

[This message edited by Buffer at 6:16 PM, September 24th (Tuesday)]

I'm sorry that inspite of the advice you got here back in March you disappeared and had to learn the hard way that the "Pick me dance NEVER WORKS", it shows weakness. Listen you're just a few days from DD#2, you should not even entertain the idea of R right now, honestly if there's a chance to R, it should come after you have her served with D paper and EXPOSE the A with ALL family and close friends (without warning), believe her actions, not her words, as others have said, D takes a long time and can be stopped if she comes around, ends her A, gives you a written timeline of the A, gets tested for STDs and show you the results, sends an NC FOREVER letter to OM and those who enabled the A, offers full on demand access to her phone and all electronic devices and passwords, commits to IC to find out her "whys" apologizes to the entire family for her huge betrayal and agrees to a postnup in your favor in case she cheats again in the future, then and only then should you offer the gift of R, or NOT !!! if you think this was/is a dealbreaker for you just let D run its course, cheaters are NOT entitled to 2nd chances much less a third one (I would be gone for sure).

Keep posting and don't disappear again, this is a crucial moment, remember here on SI we tell you what we think you NEED to hear, instead of what you may want to hear, the collective wisdom here is huge and we have seen your situation play out THOUSANDS of times, cheaters typically follow a script, we call it the cheater's handbook.

A lot on here to try to address. I am in IC. My daughter is #1 priority and its because of her that I will be forced to have contact with my WS for a very long time.

The A was 3 months before DDay1 then she continued the EA for 2 months. Broke off for 2 months and went back to it in July. So in the last year they were only off for 2 months.

The AP left his wife, but went back to f

Her when mine stayed. But when the 2nd A started she knew about it where I didn't.

Make no mistake in my post, I am still continuing with pursuing the D, but that is because I don't think she is going to be able to truly change her ways. She will not stop her hobby. She wont even offer.

But I do know her and I do believe that the A with this guy will be the only one and I have have no need to worry about other men. But I am not sure if it's too late or not. I will not commit to going through this again until I see changes.

As far as my actions last time, I was clearly not in a state to listen to anyone, I thought I knew what was best. But clearly I was wrong and I came back to listen to people here. I will do what I want in the end, but I need to speak with people who have been where I am.