SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Sure, porn distorts is, church distorts is, society distorts is some more. But, curious, what in this thread leads you to that belief?

"full porn star" with the AP and/or deny your H much in bed. So, I'd say your situation, while very illustrative, is also a bit outside the norm for your typical BH who's worried about this issue (IE, me).

That porn sex is somehow the ultimate sex. Porn is entertainment made for the audience. It is not meant to be enjoyed by the participants. The positions are meant to look good on camera and not POV. The lighting that is used is not present in most bedrooms. There is a lot of editing involved. And the average guy does not have a 9-inch crank. It's not real.

Yet, this thread implies that Affair sex (whatever that is) is this hour-long fuckfest where this dude with a 9-inch crank is beast fucking the WW and she is experiencing unlimited organisms.

When in reality most sex during an affair is done in the back of cars or places that are rather uncomfortable. It's not passionate, but rather utilitarian. It is people who do not know each other so have no idea what the other person actually likes.

The best and worst sex I've had in my life was with the same person because when you have sex over 1000 times, your likely going to get some duds. And I've had some lousy sex from ONS. In the dark missionary between the sheets so it wasn't "full porn star" by any means.

But why can't "married sex" be hot? I've had some crazy hot sex with long-term partners. If someone believes women in general only get off on getting beast fucked by a stranger with a 9-inch crank, then they are probably getting that idea from porn and not basing it in reality.

t/j:

King Rat:

unlimited organisms

I know what you meant, but that made me laugh out loud. Freudian slip?

End t/j.

That porn sex is somehow the ultimate sex. Porn is entertainment made for the audience. It is not meant to be enjoyed by the participants. The positions are meant to look good on camera and not POV. The lighting that is used is not present in most bedrooms. There is a lot of editing involved. And the average guy does not have a 9-inch crank. It's not real.

I agree, it's entertainment for an audience. But, I'll disagree on the first point, it's pretty "ultimate" sex for me personally. If I'm having a "porn level" experience, well, that would be another way of saying "wow, that was awesome".

I said this before (I think in this thread), but porn didn't "invent" anything. All this stuff, people have been doing well, since the dawn of recorded history. And I do mean all, facials, anal, double penetration, all of it, we have historic records going back 1000's of years for it. Porn recorded people doing these acts, which is new, but it didn't "implant" the desire for them, at least not for me. I really deeply wanted to put my penis in a girls mouth long before I saw it in print or on video (kind of showing my age there, I guess). It was obvious to me that would feel good. Nobody needed to explain that to me, or put the idea there, it's just "there". Porn simulates "hot sex between two hot people" or, at least it does for me. Perhaps women have a different definition of what would be "hot", but I've watched "porn for women" too, and it's basically the same thing with a bit less microscopic level closeup on genitals and perhaps a little more kissing.

Let's put it this way, when I was single, if you dropped me into just about any mainstream porn and "directed" me to do whatever was done on that video with the porn star, I feel quite confident saying, that would be a hell of an experience for me. Porn took my internal desires and put them on film. Sure, I learned things from porn (like how to go down on a woman well), and I also got some ideas from porn that are "out of the mainstream" (who knew people like candle wax dripped on them, never would have thought that). But the "porn star sex" that often comprises an A, it's not any of that. It's sex, often multiple times in a row, with a woman who's really into it. Often with some of the "highly desired" acts thrown in, BJ's, swallowing, anal, sex in public, etc. No porn needed to figure out those things would be fun for me personally, I was "born knowing" that.

A BW posted that she insisted on reclaiming all the places that her WH had sex with his AP. That there was apprehension and anxiety over it, but when she let herself get into the moment, in some of those somewhat dangerous places that her WH had A sex, she found it exciting.

I think this speaks far more to what "better" A sex is, much more than any porn sex assumption or physical description of the act some dwell on. Having sex where you aren't supposed to or with whom you are aren't supposed to, is the source of the tingly high that is the basis for what makes A sex so different (i.e., better) than M sex.

DIFM I agree to a certain extent- but in my situation my marital sex life has been riskier, more open, public places, lots of times if not being able to “wait” for more appropriate times and places. The A sex was vanilla in a mostly dark hotel room in which I was thousands of miles from home or anyone I knew.

For me the build up of the A sex far exceeded anything that really happened. I never quite appreciated how hot h and I have always been for each other, it was a far contrasting experience. I prefer marital sex, personally.

Rio- to me porn star sex is fake seeming. The girls have fake parts they pretend to like techniques and acts that no woman I know likes, and often times it’s with someone that she would never have sex with in real life. I don’t see how that can be ultimate for anyone. I can understand why guys like porn but at the same time it’s does very much represent fake sex to me.

[This message edited by hikingout at 4:55 PM, October 10th (Thursday)]

Women don't orgasm from facials. Just saying, lol. Besides, that's a shampooing nightmare afterwards. A good deal of porn geared towards men doesn't look like stuff that will give me orgasms.

Rio- to me porn star sex is fake seeming. The girls have fake parts they pretend to like techniques and acts that no woman I know likes,

Well, that's because it is fake. But I know what your saying, and I do see that, particularly in certain types of porn, I just can't get into it, it's "too fake".

To your last point, well, this is probably why people often complain that porn is "made for men" or "male centered" (correctly, IMHO). It's often not about things that are just "what you like" it's about things that the guys like too. Things that require a woman to be so into you that she'll do things that aren't just for her, they are for you. And, a lot of it centers around that mystique, or at least it does for me. "That girl is so hot for him she's going to bang him in the office". "She's so into him she's willing to risk a nasty case of pink eye". Etc, etc. And I don't think that translates for women through porn, a guy who's "that into you" marries you. Provides for his family. Protects you. No amount of kinky sex, in my experience, is going to have the same impact in showing a woman "he's into me" that a ring will, or a real commitment to a life together. A guy asking to do something kinky, even if it's just for the woman with no possible pleasure for him (let's use analingus as an example) isn't going to be seen by most as "sacrificing" for the woman, he's going to be seen as a kinky bastard. Where a woman doing the same act for a man would typically be viewed differently.

Women don't orgasm from facials.

That can’t be true Dee. The women moan and shudder and squeal when it happens...must be an orgasm. Wait...you’re not suggesting they’re acting are you Dee? 😂

The brain is the most active and vital sex organ in both men and women.

And also - not related to porn...but why do so many BS make the mistake of trying to make sense out of nonsense? There is little logic in an affair. It doesn’t make sense to BS’s because they’re not waywards. I don’t understand why my dog can lick his ass for hours on end. I know other dogs get it because they do it too. I don’t get it because I’m not a dog.

^^^Exactly. Rio, all those acts you’ve listed that are routinely seen in porn and that you correctly stated as being around for years are acts that are primarily geared towards the arousal of males. What porn does is normalizes these acts as part of the vast majority of sexual encounters. If you didn’t know any better, you’d think sex always ended in facials and every chick was dying for you to stick it in her butt. And if she wasn't demanding you do these things, well, it was because she thought it was shitty sex and you just aren't enough man for her. This feeds a lot to the imagination of some males in sexual encounters in the form of an AP (a dynamic shown in many pornos) to the point where “affair sex” gets a its own category and quasi-mythical status. How else do you explain people, who admittedly have never had an affair, be absolutely confident that “affair sex” is so distinct, special, and what you’ve stated as “better”?

Here is a quote from Alex Stone, a porn actor and producer, explaining why male talent can go for an hour or more before they organism. SPOILER ALERT: it has nothing to do with their virility or sexual prowess.

"To be perfectly, brutally honest? The truth is that porn sex involves angles, positions, sex and circumstances that are just not that stimulating. It’s not easy to be stimulated when you’ve got a cameraman inches from your junk, you’re overheated from the lights and effort, while maintaining a position that’s just flat-out uncomfortable."

As mentioned before, porn is made for the viewer not the participants. It is entertainment with the target audience being males. The only thing that actors are enjoying is the paycheck. In general, women will say that facials are gross and humiliating. Unless you have a small dick and a ton of lube, most women will tell you that anal is uncomfortable. Those acts aren't done for their pleasure.

The irony is the only woman that allowed me to give her a facial was my wife. And make no mistake, she did not agree because she thought it was hot. She allowed it because she loved me.

[This message edited by KingRat at 9:45 PM, October 10th (Thursday)]

At least we are killing one myth which is all affair sex is bad.

If you didn’t know any better, you’d think sex always ended in facials and every chick was dying for you to stick it in her butt.

LOL, I guess you could draw that conclusion!

And if she wasn't demanding you do these things, well, it was because she thought it was shitty sex and you just aren't enough man for her.

But I think that this conclusion is probably more accurate with a few changes. It's not about her demanding those things, but, offering them. And yes, I do, both from my pre-A experiences and of course, now the A (where I'd asked for those things, been denied, and they were offered to OM), very much feel like your conclusion, drawn in jest, probably has a lot more truth in it than I, or anyone else would like; "you just aren't enough man for her."

Look, we all have an "internal scale" of how far we'd "go" with another person. A woman I like, but find very unattractive, I'd be her friend. A woman I find marginally attractive, probably wouldn't be too keen on having sex with, but a NSA BJ? Yeah, I would have been up for that. And the "pinnacle acts" for me, the things I'll only do for a partner I really like, probably highest on that list (for women) is oral sex, but there's a whole host of other stuff that I'm only doing if I'm really into her (I'll elaborate if this isn't clear, but it's going to read like the title of a porn movie, so, if everyone just uses their imagination, that might work too). And that scale, and the way it's drawn in my mind, well, it's pretty darn obvious. At the "less attracted" side, we have the acts that are all about me. BJ's, HJ's, etc. Acts that concentrate entirely on my pleasure. And at the other end "most attracted" side, we have the acts that are all about her, using my mouth on a girl isn't physically pleasurable, so, without a mental component (wow, she's so hot, I want to make her feel good) it's pretty unappealing. So, it's a scale, at least it is for me, of "selfish" to "selfless" acts by virtue of how attracted I am to my partner.

And, the comparison is obvious, the particular acts you mentioned, anal and facials, well, they are primarily and nearly entirely (respectively) about the man's pleasure. So, women who will engage in those acts are saying "I care about your experience, and I'm willing to do things with you that I won't do with guys I'm less attracted to". Now, are they really saying that? I have no idea. Might be Tuesday, and Tuesday is the only day I like semen on my face. And you just happen to be the lucky guy there that day. But, no matter what message is intended, I can tell you, without question the delivered message to me is unambiguous, right or wrong, that's the receiver of the message determines the content, and that's the content that I, personally, hear.

Now, in a lot of cases, you can convince yourself, I know I did, that I "heard wrong". My W was never into any of the "kink", "high value male centered acts". Of course, the first message I got was "she's not into you", but, I kept listening, and I heard conflicting messages from non-sexual areas. She's talking about marriage. She wants to be exclusive. She wants to move in. So, while her sexual behavior was sending me the "not into you" message, her other behavior was sending a different message. And, for a long time, I was confused, and then eventually, I got to the point where I said to myself, "Well, look at that RIO, the sexual message was wrong, she really is into you". And accepted that as the real answer, it had nothing to do with her "not being into you", and was just who she was as a person.

Well, then, that nice little security blanket that I so lovingly knit for myself was torn to shreds by the A, because, like some other WH's here, my W heartily engaged in all the dirty dozen, pretty much within 2 weeks of going sexual with the AP. My security blanket, "it's not her" was torn away, pissed on, lit on fire, and then scattered to the wind. Now there was only one explanation, and it had nothing to do with her, she was obviously "into it", it had everything to do with me "yeah, she's into it, just not with you". This particular thing is the psychological trauma I'm not sure I'll ever really get over; yes, I can move on from it, but, at the same time, I don't know if I'll ever be able to view it the way I did during our pre-A marriage again. The security blanket is gone, and the thing that I'd thought as a young man (the more into you she is, the more you'll get) was "proven true" in a way I'll never forget. This wasn't a child touching a hot stove and getting a little nip of a burn, this was a child falling face first into a crucible of molten steel. If that were to happen you, I'm quite sure, you'd NEVER forget to trust your instincts about heat, and the danger of hot things, ever again. And that's kind of how I feel, I knew molten steel was dangerous, my wife convinced me it wasn't, that's not steel, it's a bucket of mercury, it won't burn you. And then dumped that 2200 degree bucket right on my head.

I kick myself for this quite often. I KNEW BETTER. I'd seen it first hand. My friends and I dated the same girls and compared notes. I knew that attraction and sexual access were directly linked and I convinced myself otherwise. Now, I did have a cunning accomplice in that, the kid egging you on "That's not gonna burn you RIO", so it's not like I woke up stupid one day, my wife worked hard to convince me that the bucket wasn't hot. But I can't truly blame her, I knew better. This was one of my first thoughts at d-day, long before I found SI and realized that this was a common component of an A, I felt it in the pit of my stomach. I knew the sexual details were going to be horrific. Because I knew, without question, that I'd been fooling myself up to that point. The A was just a culmination of me working real hard to convince myself of something I knew wasn't true.

The sad thing is, there are a lot of women out there who really mean "no, not with anyone" about any of the particular "dirty dozen" acts. It's got nothing to do with you, and just their preference to not engage in that particular act. But there is simply no way to tell one group from the other. The buckets look the same, the molten metal looks the same, one is 80 degrees and the other 2000 degrees. And that makes it near impossible to choose bucket A or B. And maybe some people are better at picking up on cues, they can really tell "No doesn't mean no for just me, it means NO". I thought I could. I was wrong. And now knowing I can't tell bucket A from B, if I were to divorce, I'd choose bucket C. And bucket C is the "porn star sex" bucket, filled with cool water (or lube!). Because, if you're having that with your SO or partner, you don't have to worry about bucket A and B, they do not apply to you (like Hiking's situation). It's grossly unfair, because there are a lot women out there who really are "no for anyone" on certain acts, statistics tell us that. But, stats (and my personal experience) also tell me that a "bucket C" woman isn't a unicorn. There are plenty of women out there who "do it all" with men they like/love. Shoot, we have a lot of them here, sadly often as BW's, but it's abundantly clear that they do exist. I'd just select a partner out of that group; the bucket A/B group, too dangerous and difficult to tell the difference, at least for me personally, I proved I have can't tell molten iron from room temperature mercury. And the burns I got from that experience reinforced a valuable lesson in a way that I'll never forget again.

I know we debate this...you and I. One thing that you can take into consideration. My husband back before we were married watched me have sex with other people, and initiated it/encouraged it/enjoyed it. I don't think I have to hide from him any of my sexual feelings at all.

in that situation there is no reason for the wife

to down play how good the sex was. and she could

not deny how well a particular man serviced her with

her husband watching it.

that situation is the total opposite of an affair.

husband is kept in the dark, this OM must be

offering something extra special for his wife to

cheat on him , is all the BH can assume

You make a fair point oldtruck. But if I had gone in to him and downplayed the sex he would have known because of our experiences. He knows I told the truth because we have had a lot of practice talking about sex with other people. It wasn’t the typical discussion you might see in a betrayer situation,

For the record part of the reason that we stopped that behavior is I didn’t like sharing my body with people who I didn’t have feelings for. It wasn’t like we did it with everyone we had a few sets of friends that were people we saw in some basis. But I just didn’t like it. The hottest thing for both h and I was coming back home and hysterically bonding. Because that is what most people in that lifestyle like best of all. It’s a head scratcher I know.

So the hardest part of discussing the sex was the emotional feelings I had about it. That part was never there before. The actual experience was not that different and h had a basis of understanding of that because if our deep communication in the past. If I had told him something that wasn’t realistic and authentic to me he would have known that instantly. I knew I had to give it to him straight. So what you are saying about having to lie in the boards in case he would see it just doesn’t hold up as true in our situation. For him the thing he knew was true is I wouldn’t have had sex with someone that I didn’t believe I loved or likely was making into my next relationship and for us that was very tough to navigate. As I have said before and I am sure it’s a confusing statement - I am definitely someone who wants and enjoys monogamy. I think marital sex or long term partner sex is best because I have an introverted side and I need full comfort to get out of my self consciousness. When I am out of that I am a very sexual person. But it takes time and trust and a lot of intimacy for me to let down that guard. H knows al this so he understands what was missing in the sex for me. We had already explored a lot of this when I wanted to close our relationship. He even isn’t confused on why I wouldn’t have come to him to open it back up. The reasons for that are sad - it was because I was leaving and I was too selfish to make that happen before I started on with someone else.

Rio- you think that finding APs for women they just fall from the sky but no the men who will sleep with a married woman you already know it’s a much smaller subset than a single woman with no strings attached.

Also your view on women’s desire are very skewed. I know you think you will go further with someone based on level of attraction. I don’t think women are built that way. I will offer h things that are less pleasing to me here and there but generally it’s because he does the same for me. I don’t think any woman does those things unless it’s an exchange for something else. In an affair that’s a big part of things people do and also it fits the role they believe they are playing.

As far as facials or whatever I don’t see how that’s a lot of proof of anything. I could care less about where my husband wants to put his stuff. It all washes off- I see no big deal at all with it. Nor would I have ever cared. It’s maybe not his thing because it’s not taboo to me. So that’s something to think about - if the woman doesn’t see that as taboo do you still want it as badly? My experience is no because I think there is something mentally there about it being taboo or humiliating or whatever. I think what you are often dealing with a woman is really just her parameters for the most part. The less the parameters the less that seems taboo and some of those things lose appeal or specialness.

[This message edited by hikingout at 8:39 AM, October 11th (Friday)]

Because that is what most people in that lifestyle like best of all. It’s a head scratcher I know.

Would have been a head scratcher before her A, no doubt about it. After experiencing HB first hand, nope, no longer scratching my head about it!

Rio- you think that finding APs for women they just fall from the sky but no the men who will sleep with a married woman you already know it’s a much smaller subset than a single woman with no strings attached.

Well, I admit, I'm talking about a type of A that we don't see here much, the "pure PA" for a woman. But, in that type of A, yeah, I'd stand by my statement, it "falls from the sky". Put on a pretty outfit, go to bar, and wait. Bang, AP appears. No need to search for it, no need to lie about anything, in fact, I'd suppose the more honest you are, the more attracted a single guy (certainly me, back in the day) would be to you. Now, I would have taken pause if you told me you were married, frankly, I'm not sure what I would have done with that. But I wouldn't have asked either, so, there's that.

I know you think you will go further with someone based on level of attraction. I don’t think women are built that way. I will offer h things that are less pleasing to me here and there but generally it’s because he does the same for me. I don’t think any woman does those things unless it’s an exchange for something else. In an affair that’s a big part of things people do and also it fits the role they believe they are playing.

I certainly can't speak broadly here. But I think the general thought holds, especially if you don't say "missionary vs anal" but "shaking hands vs kissing". It's a direct reflection of how you feel about that person. And yes, what you said is kind of the point, you go above and beyond for him because he does the same for you. That's how it's "supposed to be". Not going above and beyond for an AP, unless, of course, what he's "offering" is really that much more attractive than your H. And, in some ways, I feel like that's saying the same thing.

I could care less about where my husband wants to put his stuff. It all washes off- I see no big deal at all with it.

LOL, good point. But, here's the thing HO, I think that you're a bit of an outlier here. You were "down for anything" in your M, great, and, I might add, your H is a very lucky man for your willingness to explore fantasy together with him. But, and maybe I'm wrong here, but I think that my M pre-A was more the norm. I certainly know, unless they are all liars (possible I guess) that the VAST majority of my friends bemoan the loss of a few specific things in their M, anal and swallowing, putting a very fine point on it, are by far the most common things. Facials, honestly, I'm not sure I've even heard that conversation before, but I suspect it's somewhere in the "dirty list of wishes" for at least some guys (it was for me). I think your relationship was more an outlier than mine; or, put another way, I think my experience is more typical.

if the woman doesn’t see that as taboo do you still want it as badly?

Put simply, no. But I would still want it. The forbidden nature of it, for sure, makes me want it more (if I'm not getting it). However, if I do get it, it's not like the desire evaporates. I've done pretty much all of it with other partners before, and most of it with my W now, and yeah, I don't "pine for it" like I once did (when I wasn't getting it), but let me tell you, in no uncertain terms, "c*m on my face" said in the heat of sex!? Yeah, damn right, and I hope you mean "right now" because that's sexy as hell to me, even if we did it last night, it's still kind of mind blowing to have someone talk to you that way and be so open and interested in what it is that you would like. Sorry to get graphic there, not sure how else to say it!

certainly can't speak broadly here. But I think the general thought holds, especially if you don't say "missionary vs anal" but "shaking hands vs kissing". It's a direct reflection of how you feel about that person. And yes, what you said is kind of the point, you go above and beyond for him because he does the same for you. That's how it's "supposed to be". Not going above and beyond for an AP, unless, of course, what he's "offering" is really that much more attractive than your H. And, in some ways, I feel like that's saying the same thing.

I still think you don’t have it right. I talk to other women about sex and I think what I am about to say has nothing to do with me being an outlier.

Some men might take a bj from a less attractive woman because it’s offered and there is apparently more of a scarcity for that for men at least from your vantage point. (I actually think it would not be hard for my husband to walk into a bar and pick up some skank that noticed his car or thought he was cute or funny or whatever it is they are looking for and get a bj) but I will concede to your point in order to get mine across. Women are far more discerning.

Some women my have certain rules they apply to a Men they know less than one they are dating for longer. I could see oral being off the table for example. But in a dating situation, if I like you enough to be sleeping with you it’s not going to take some mystical force or rating scale to give him access to all the things that are acceptable to me. The things that are less acceptable to me I will avoid with all partners regardless of who they are or level of attraction. No one ever made me go so crazy that I decided to go against my comfort level nor have I ever felt that was needed.

So in other words, most women just really hold the good stuff back based on maybe anything other than longevity of the relationship. There is no rating scale of he is a 6 so no oral. It’s likely, I don’t know this guy so no oral. Or I don’t like giving oral so no oral for anyone.

Where it’s confusing in the affair - there is this sense you are competing with another woman for some who are having an affair and want to “win” the AP (what a terrible prize if that were to actually happen) they are also not often being themselves in an affair. For me, I was playing a role of being someone I wasn’t but wished that I were. So I could see how under this role some felt they were having to present consistently as a vixen is your wife did. But if she had actually gotten the guy not only do I strongly believe the odds are likely she wouldn’t even want him. But even if she did she will go back to the things that are in her own parameters and the other stuff would be off the table because now she has to be more authentic to go long term. Women truly do not interpret sex for proof of love the way some men do - so it makes no sense that we would know certain acts or scenarios is what proved love to you. Even sitting here knowing for even my husband that might be somewhat true - it’s so foreign to me I am unable to embrace it as the way I should be thinking.

That’s why I say it’s a misinterpretation. but I think where it can be confusing for you is there are instances in which a woman may throw something in once in a while because she loves you and knows you want that sometimes. But it will always remain a scarcity unless she comes to learn she does actually enjoy it. I am not a fan of anal. I wouldn’t offer it up to anyone that I wasn’t in a long term monogamous relationship with so it would have been off the table with anyone unless I am maybe married to you. It’s not something I offer up often but I will throw it in there in the premise of my h only has me to have sex with the rest of his life. But it is a scarcity, the only saving thing for us is he could really care less. We have lots of sex and have lots of fun together and for him that’s plenty. He doesn’t need me to do something I hate to prove to him how much I love him.

[This message edited by hikingout at 9:58 AM, October 11th (Friday)]

RIO, I sit here offended as hell a lot of the time when I read your posts about female sexuality and I'm trying to figure out why this one got me too.

I think I get it. You seem to view women and their sexuality in this contractual way, almost. That, and like women are robots. You treat them X way, they give you Y output. "Be an asshole, get anal". "Be nice, get marriage."

You know who gets anal in my life? Dudes I've been with for a while whom I trust to freaking stop if it's too painful. Bonus points if they aren't well-endowed. Too well-endowed? You don't get anal. Everyone gets oral because I like to give it. You don't get to do a facial unless you and I talk about it and it's something that you've never done and just wanna try and I feel so inclined to deal with the utter mess that is. In public? Sure, that's kinda fun, but in an "I won't get arrested" way, because I have a job and such and would like to keep it. If I'm sleeping with you, I'm attracted to you. If you're a complete douche and I find you offputting, you aren't getting laid no matter how hot you are because I have to trust that you don't do horrible things to me because you can overpower me. If you want to use me as a toy and have zero interest in me enjoying it, it won't happen a second time.

I'm not holding back if I think you're "marriage material" or whatever. I don't give more to players and less to decent guys. I'm an individual with my own wants, needs, considerations and opinions.

Thank you Dee -you said that better than I did but That is what I was really trying to get at.

If we are sleeping with you it’s because we want to- many things about sex are negotiable. We are going to be freer with Simeon we trust and who we believe loves us for who we are. But there isn’t some scale of I will do this for you because I want you more - it’s more we all have our preferences and parameters. Our preferences can be expanded and while we didn’t like one thing at one age doesn’t mean we won’t change and like something later. I hated broccoli when I was ten and I love it now. But outside of affairs that have their own dynamic that you will likely never understand, we are just people who are operating on preferences. We are unhealthy in our affairs and some give up this agency in certain things either because they have something to prove, a husband they are trying to steal, or because they do t mind that it doesn’t get them off because they have a diet of that at home. It’s beyond fucked up - I get that but that’s really the difference for most women and affair sex. Literally very rarely do I believe it’s the AP or that they have hit some button that no other man knows about that sent the woman into some overdrive. The woman has simply entered a situation where there is a lot of manipulation and hidden agendas. Not hot at all - more degrading if you ask me. And if you went outside your parameters then I think you feel even more humiliated degraded rather than thinking any of it was hit because you had to trade things you know you shouldn’t have traded.

Your wife didn’t feel she was worth enough to hold to her parameters. Let that sink in. It wasn’t because the ap was worth more it’s because she made herself worth less. She lowered her standards because she felt he wouldn’t want her with her normal standards. That’s sad and pathetic and humiliating rather than hot.

[This message edited by hikingout at 11:18 AM, October 11th (Friday)]

A good deal of porn geared towards men doesn't look like stuff that will give me orgasms.

Yep, and quite frankly, I don't want to have sex if I'm not going to have an orgasm. Maybe I'm extremely selfish, but I don't get off on getting someone else off. They have to reciprocate.

DD and HO, I don't know why you bother. RIO is never going to get it because he doesn't want to. He wants to believe his narrative. He has to be right even after he's admitted he was wrong.

Sorry, RIO, I'm not really trying to insult you, but your posts are ridiculous. You really have no idea what you're talk I'll ng about except for how it pertains to you. I don't think you even know what your CW really thinks or wants.

[This message edited by cocoplus5nuts at 11:38 AM, October 11th (Friday)]

I see RIO differently. I think he is a loop from his trauma. He is a bit further out from h and I but I think in some ways he spent year one just trying to pull his wife out of the fog. He spent year two trying to get her to see how giving the ap acts he had practically begged for and had been refused made him feel she desired him more. I think it’s extremely traumatic to him because the high value he placed on sex and then lowered his standard on sexual requirements to marry her and then she turned around and gave of herself so generously to someone else. That has really caused some sort of distortion that is no different than someone I know right now who has recently caught her husband having an affair. She has a distorted sense of self and has purposefully lost 30 pounds because she is adamant he cheated because of her weight. She is distorted from the trauma. Where she was confident about her looks prior. Where as I can totally see that she can’t control the situation so she has made herself believe that she can control

It if it’s about her weight.

Rio has said he and his wife have rebuilt their sex life and she now shows him desire. Now it’s time to unravel the harder stuff but I feel like he is afraid of that (or maybe values it less) to some degree and he is more comfortable in the sex loop he previously was in...in at least how he wants to participate in this board. Sometimes when pushed you will see he will show his vulnerability but that doesn’t come naturally to him so he just keeps replaying the loop. I agree he totally has an offensive view of female sexuality but he has gotten this from the view of the one woman he knows well in his own life - which is the same person who traumatized him and he doesn’t feel he can rely on what she is telling him. He has porn and his past experiences which sound like he had no idea nor cared what the woman really wanted emotionally. It’s just a different type of trauma or wound than the ones others here have had.

[This message edited by hikingout at 12:26 PM, October 11th (Friday)]

I think it’s extremely traumatic to him because the high value he placed on sex and then lowered his standard on sexual requirements to marry her and then she turned around and gave of herself so generously to someone else.

Yep, and you know what? I get that. I can relate.