SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi. I haven’t posted in a while but I’ve lurked a lot. I’m looking for some advice and don’t really have anyone to turn to about this since only a few people know about my A and I’m too embarrassed to discuss this with my sis.

Since DDay, I’ve had a weird approach when it comes to intimacy and sex with my BH. I take my cues from him for emotional intimacy, but am very proactive about sex. A big part of that is that I haven’t wanted to push anything on him emotionally, but I also want to let him know I desire him physically and and that I’m there for him physically and emotionally too. Maybe I got conditioned a bit after DDay, because it took a long time for him to even touch me on his own and we didn’t have sex for more than half a year. Since then (it’s been 4 years) I’ve been the one who primarily propositions him, but I take a back seat when it comes to building any kind of intimacy outside of sex and follow his lead. Like I said we have this weird thing going on. We’ve done a few relationship building activities like taking dance classes, and we have date nights, but really building our relationship is going very slow and I don’t want to push him so I let him take the lead.

We have talked about it but he basically says things are fine and brushes me off when I bring it up but he rarely initiates sex. Please don’t think I’m not grateful for where I am at this stage and given what I’ve done but I wanted to know how I can build intimacy between us? Do I just continue to take a back seat and take what I can get? It’s not lacking as much as it is one sided. I think for our M to really grow we need to both work toward our emotional relationship. It should be both of us. And the same with sex. We were pretty even about this before my A, so I can’t help but assume it’s connected. I know, d-uh, right? But should I just assume this is the M we’ll have? Is there something I should be doing?

I know this sounds like a plea for validation from my BH, like I want him to want me, but it’s not about that (mostly, tbh who doesn’t want to be wanted by their SO?). If he doesn’t want me, then don’t we need to work on that if we want a healthy M? Shouldn’t we address it? And if he does want me, but something is holding him back from initiating emotional intimacy or sex, shouldn’t we address that too?

I know this is rambling, but I’m sort of lost about this. I feel like something’s off and I’m not sure if it’s there or in my head, and even if it’s real if there’s anything I can do about it or even whether I should. Thanks.

From the BH side of things, it is a tough bridge to re-build.

While behavior during an A seems to fit a very specific pattern, our recovery behavior is very individual. The magic of SI is many, many shared experiences, so I can only go with what I got.

In my case, our HB lasted months and it proved to be a very important part of us finding out that yes, we're still quite compatible in the physical intimacy department. However, there still came a point where I backed off. I couldn't commit to being all in. I built walls. My lizard brain is reminding me to be cautious, that this is a person who hurt me more than I'd ever been hurt, etc.

My wife's approach was to be relentless.

It didn't always work out for her, and she felt rejected at times. She got frustrated. Then she regrouped and found a way to make sure I knew she would 'be there' when I was ready. That gave me some space, and yet she would still let me know that she missed me.

Eventually, I really believed I was safe enough to be all in.

Maybe we're never safe, I just can't live life halfway or have a marriage sans intimacy and joy. I'm glad I rolled the dice one more time.

Ultimately, I think the only real advice I have for any important relationship on the planet is ABC. And not the Glengarry Glen Ross David Mamet 'Always Be Closing' line -- instead it's -- Always Be Connecting.

It's all the common stuff that gets taken for granted.

We do dinner dates (home or going out), puzzles, reading the paper together, find a TV show or a movie, take walks, take trips, and be present and thoughtful and kind. Pre-A we stopped holding hands and doing the little stuff. That didn't cause the A, it's just that we had no idea how important it was to constantly connect with each other.

It has to be about the relationship you both want.

I wouldn't wish infidelity on anyone, but we've decided to use this last chance to make it the marriage we always wanted.

Keep reaching out, keep talking, keep finding ways to connect, and I hope you both continue to heal.

Hi, it's good to "see you" again.

You are further out from me, so I am not sure if I have any insight on the different stages that couples go through past where I am at. I have learned that I know nothing about anything past the day I am on because as I evolve I can always see that I never have known what I was doing from day 1.

Let me see if I can re-state what you are saying:

You feel like you initiate sex but not emotional intimacy. You feel like Walloped doesn't do his share of either of these things? But, when you have talked to him his statement is that you guys are fine?

Here are some different thought trains and while I don't know if any of them are right I trust you will know when you see one that connects to you:

First, I don't know Walloped very well, but I have had a few interactions with him on this site of late and I will only say it's obvious to me that he loves you and is still committed to your marriage. But, I get the sense there is still healing either he's doing or is up ahead for him (which is probably the most normal thing on the planet). I have wondered if he is aware of that though or if he sees himself as healed? I have seen other BS's here seem to want to keep brushing things aside with thoughts like "I should be over this by now' and 'she is doing the right things' It puts them in a loop that they are the one with the problem and I think because of that it seems to stifle discussions they are having at home. Have you had that discussion?

I know he had a hard few days around your DDAY anti-versary and he wasn't expecting that to happen. I wondered if that didn't point at there are some things just under the surface he may be even unaware are still there and that's why it caught him off guard? That's only a hunch as again, my interactions with him were very brief and we are online so I could have been projecting because I suspect this is what my husband does sometimes, so I may just be seeing this in all the BH's as a result. Really hard to know, but I think valid enough to explore.

Another thing that is possible: If you are initiating a lot of sex, is it just possible he is just happy with the frequency and quality and likes being able to be more passive about it? I just finished saying on another thread, for the Pre-A days of our marriage, that I rarely initiated. But, it wasn't because I didn't want sex but because I felt happy enough with my husband's drive that it just didn't seem needed. If he didn't initiate, I assumed he was tired and wanted the night off, and I would just go to sleep figuring we'd get it on the next day. I could see how if this has been a long pattern, he may be happy in it and not realize that you aren't feeling pursued. I feel as the balance of your marriage continues to return, this is a need for both of you.

And, I don't think it sounds like you are complaining about where you guys are or looking for validation from your husband in a non-healthy way. I have spent a while doing some posts about validation, and I have come to understand that without it our relationships really wouldn't exist, it's one of the building blocks to feel seen, feel heard, those are all points of validation. It's only unhealthy when we don't air the concern that we are scared by what is happening, or not satisfied with something that is happening. The fact you want to air it an address it means that you are using healthier coping mechanisms.

Could this have been an Pre-A issue or pattern that's always been there? Maybe not the sex part, but the emotional connection part. Is this something you guys were good at before that you are looking to restore or will this be new to you. And, some other random thoughts/questions about it in general:

1. Having an healthy expectation of what emotional connection looks like is important. What does it look like to you? What does it look like to him? Do those things match?

2. Are one or both of you having issues showing vulnerability. I will touch on your vulnerability in a later point, let's talk about his here. I certainly think that can also be a post A thing - it's very difficult for the BS to become vulnerable again - I don't have to tell you that they are trying to work through a trauma with the person who traumatized them. And, I think you are VERY aware of that, and could be causing fears that are unfounded as well. But, he may still be holding back and you truly sense that too. No way for internet people to know ;-)

3. Outside of bigger events of couple-building - do you have "regular" time blocked off? I know you guys still have kids at home and that makes it harder, but are you all doing any type of regular date night (even if the date is a bubble bath and a conversation?)

4. How are you approaching the emotional connection initiating? Sometimes the way it's brought up could be blocking you. Personally, I just try and be mindful of sharing my inner world stuff with him - I go with the lead by example way for now. But, I also recognize that we are in the building rather than maintaining stage and I think to myself what does that look like - because I don't know yet? I am not sure what techniques will be needed.

5. Another check yourself moment: Do you secretly fear the affair was a dealbreaker for him? Or is a different fear you are harboring? I think this would be a common WS fear. If you fear that, it might help to discuss that with him, or to analyze that further as to why you are fearful of that. And, is it that fear that keeps you from initiating more emotional connection? Are you keeping yourself from being completely vulnerable?

Well, that's a lot of fodder, maybe there is something there that can be taken and built on. Maybe not.

[This message edited by hikingout at 1:55 PM, October 3rd (Thursday)]

Hi Mrs W. It's good to hear from you. I've been gone awhile too, only recently come back to work on some things.

A long time ago I wrote something to a different poster that your husband let me know he found meaningful. This is what I wrote:

"I have some thoughts about your husband. I hesitate to write this because what I have to say will likely be very painful to you. But you seem to prefer straight talk as long as it is offered with compassion. So I will give you what I can.

....

There are a lot of people who are living through the aftermath of betrayal, and it is always devastating. But many fewer of them are living through betrayal by a childhood first love, and that is something different.

What your husband is suffering, in addition to betrayal, is heartbreak. And heartbreak is different from simple betrayal. Many of us have someone with whom we first learned to love, as man and woman, and to whom we opened our heart. And the heart opens so fully to that first person. It does not know hurt yet. When that heart is broken, it is -- very hard. Very, very, very hard. We heal, and we learn to open ourselves to love again, but not in quite the same way. We are no longer innocent. We trust again, but never with the same abandon and utter innocence.

People whose hearts get broken often love the person who broke their heart. I still very much love the person who broke mine. I have also long since forgiven her. But many, maybe most us never trust that person the same way. We can never feel safe with that person again. Even if we think rationally she will not again betray us.

This is beyond rational. It is more like burning your hand the first time, and never approaching fire the same way again. The flinch does not go away."

Recently I was reminded that to ask for emotional vulnerability we must be vulnerable ourselves. I know in the past real vulnerability was very hard for you, though those who knew you-- including your husband-- might not have realized it, because you hid it well.

Perhaps it could be a profound gesture of vulnerability if you ask your husband about heartbreak. If you do, perhaps he will open himself to be emotionally vulnerable to you in return.

In parting, please know I think of you and your husband often and have for years, always with great fondness and best wishes. Gemar chatimah tovah.

[This message edited by Owl6118 at 2:31 PM, October 3rd (Thursday)]

Switched to a PM. It was a little too specific.

[This message edited by DoinBettr at 1:53 PM, October 3rd (Thursday)]

Hi hikingout!

You feel like you initiate sex but not emotional intimacy. You feel like Walloped doesn't do his share of either of these things? But, when you have talked to him his statement is that you guys are fine?

Yes, but I wouldn’t say that he’s not doing his share. I don’t think of it that way or think that it needs to be equal. It’s more that it’s not really coming from him at all pretty much and that’s freaking me out.

But, I get the sense there is still healing either he's doing or is up ahead for him (which is probably the most normal thing on the planet). I have wondered if he is aware of that though or if he sees himself as healed?

I agree with you about this. He has a lot of healing to do, but in some ways does the guy thing where pneumonia is just a cold and says it’s nothing or that everything is fine.

I know he had a hard few days around your DDAY and he wasn't expecting that to happen. I wondered if that didn't point at there are some things just under the surface he may be even unaware are still there and that's why it caught him off guard?

Could be. It was a rough few days for him and he was really out of it. Very distracted and distant.

is it just possible he is just happy with the frequency and quality and likes being able to be more passive about it?

Possibly, but I e actually tested this out and didn’t initiate to see if he would and he didn’t. So if it’s not coming from me, it’s not really happening. I don’t mind initiating. It’s that I’m more worried over what that means.

The other thing is that it’s not about me not feeling pursued, although that would be wonderful. It’s that it tells me there’s something there that causing him not to (I know, obvious).

Thank you for those questions. I need to go through them, but this one made me hold my breath.

5. Another check yourself moment: Do you secretly fear the affair was a dealbreaker for him? Are you keeping yourself from being completely vulnerable?

Maybe? I mean I do think it was a dealbreaker and looking back I expected him to divorce me. I was sure he would and I wasn’t going to fight him on it or anything. But he didn’t. For some reason he stayed, but maybe he has been fighting with himself over that decision? I do partly worry that he might still even though everything he does or says indicates he won’t, but maybe that’s why I’m so concerned over this? So many maybes. I don’t know if I’m holding back because it’s in the back of my mind. I know I try to be vulnerable with him, but I also don’t push. I don’t know.

Thanks for such a thought out response.

Emotionally intimacy can be very uncomfortable for some guys. The opposite can be true for women.

It is not the element we focus on or see the other one through.

I know for me the emotional aspect was the most deeply wounded as I did not have the skills necessary to navigate that space. Honestly I did not want to figure them out either.

Being vulnerable after being hurt is so, so hard. A BS experiences in infidelity is that vulnerability causes pain. That is hard to overcome. Really hard when it is reinforced by a lifetime of learning that vulnerability equals weakness.

He is till there, right ? He still wants to have sex, right ? He likely doesn't see a problem, but you do.

What about this creates fear in you ? Find that and it will likely give you enough to have a discussion with your H.

I will also say this. You've been Ring for 4 years and as such that has become the norm. Now anything other than that feels off ? Maybe it is stopping being R and becoming more of a M again ?

Maybe this bothers you because you don't feel healed yet and are afraid that your H has healed and maybe that makes you think you are doing it wrong.

To this day my W still brings up R kinds of things. I have no interest because in my mind that chapter in our lives is in the past. I remind her what about our relationship today bothers you the most ? It usually gets back to a current relationship type of need versus something A or R related.

I guess what I am saying that since a lot of us did not have handle on a good framework to have relationshipy kinds of discussions the R framework is the only one we know.

Maybe it is time to lead with vulnerability and create a new framework that expands to include other things beyond R ? KWIM ? Communication can be done in lots of different ways. As long as it is there it is the right thing for most situations.

Yes, but I wouldn’t say that he’s not doing his share. I don’t think of it that way or think that it needs to be equal. It’s more that it’s not really coming from him at all pretty much and that’s freaking me out.

That would freak me out too. And, you have asked him about this but he doesn't want to discuss it?

I agree with you about this. He has a lot of healing to do, but in some ways does the guy thing where pneumonia is just a cold and says it’s nothing or that everything is fine.

Yes, I was wondering that a little bit. I think sometimes it's they don't realize it's pneumonia. They are in their own denial over it? Or they don't think it's something you can help with so there is nothing they have to report.

Possibly, but I e actually tested this out and didn’t initiate to see if he would and he didn’t. So if it’s not coming from me, it’s not really happening. I don’t mind initiating. It’s that I’m more worried over what that means.

I don't want to affirm your fear here, but I would worry about that as well.

But, there could still be a lot of explanations for it that might not have to do with the A or even you. There has been a long spell of this or a shorter term one? H went through something when we were younger, it was probably 10 years ago or so, and it was a situational depression that had nothing at all to do with me. And, it took him a while to recognize it, and it involved his work. We finally had to make a conscious decision as a couple for him to leave that job at the risk of lower income. It was a great move for him. I don't know how long it would have taken him to see it, I finally just had to sit him down and say "look, I think you are depressed, and I think these are the reasons" He thought about it for a week, and I was right. So, don't dismiss other pressures.

But, some of the things he has said in his posts I am wondering if he's having some aftershocks of a lot of feelings that came up during the antiversary days. I gave him some insight on what that has looked like for us, but I am not really sure it was helpful at all.

Thank you for those questions. I need to go through them, but this one made me hold my breath.

5. Another check yourself moment: Do you secretly fear the affair was a dealbreaker for him? Are you keeping yourself from being completely vulnerable?

Maybe? I mean I do think it was a dealbreaker and looking back I expected him to divorce me. I was sure he would and I wasn’t going to fight him on it or anything. But he didn’t. For some reason he stayed, but maybe he has been fighting with himself over that decision?

I hesitated to give you that question. Because A) you are right it's always a dealbreaker, you have to build a new deal afterwards. B) I think it's always a secret fear we have as the wayward. We have to be all in and vulnerable, but we are aware we may have compromised our future with this person as a consequence of our choices. But, it doesn't sound like that's what's happening, the things that are scaring you are enough to scare you on your own. It doesn't sound like you are projecting this bigger fear on the situation, it sounds like there are specific things that are triggering all this.

The other thing is that it’s not about me not feeling pursued, although that would be wonderful. It’s that it tells me there’s something there that causing him not to (I know, obvious).

I understand now. I was projecting the fact I can get in these fear pockets based on lesser behaviors.

Hi Mrs Walloped

Welcome back. I read your and your H’s threads and got two sides of the story. First of all, when I read your post I just was like deja vu. I read a few reconciliation stories where the BH stopped initiating intimacy after dday while the couple has built the new marriage. I think this is not an unusual pattern and related to BH feeling ‘emasculated’. The BH loses his spontaneity in the new marriage. The question is if it continues to be like that, will you accept the new form of relationship and be grateful of what you have. (He could have rejected you when you initiate, right:)).

I could have written this post word for word. We are almost 3 years out. Sex is generally initiated by me and one sided. I wish I had words of wisdom for you! My thoughts are it's a defense mechinism as well as a way to show hurt and unhappiness. I don't think they think we deserve that aspect of them any more. If we do have sex its not centered on my pleasure, which is fine as I still can enjoy myself. But the underlying issue and disconnect isn't lost on me. I feel like "used goods" he doesn't want to touch.

[This message edited by pinkpggy at 4:05 PM, October 3rd (Thursday)]

Hi Owl6118,

I have some thoughts about your husband. I hesitate to write this because what I have to say will likely be very painful to you. But you seem to prefer straight talk as long as it is offered with compassion. So I will give you what I can.

Your post was beautiful and heart wrenching at the same time. You warned me it would be painful - thank you for doing that and not just dumping it on me. I must have read it 5 times already. And I don’t know what I can do about it. Nothing, right? I know. But it opens up so many fears and worries. If you’re right, how can he stand to look at me? No wonder he doesn’t want to touch me. Every time he sees me he sees the pain. I’m not just the reminder of his heartbreak, I’m the cause of it. How do you recover from that? I know it’s my own bed I made, I’m not throwing a pity party. But I don’t know where that leaves us. Stuck in this limbo?

The thing is I don’t know if this is all in my head or real. I don’t doubt the heartbreak you mentioned is real. I’m talking about whether I’m reading too much into things or not. I just don’t know.

Thank you for sharing it with me though. And for the New Year wishes. Same to you.

numb&dumb,

I will also say this. You've been Ring for 4 years and as such that has become the norm. Now anything other than that feels off ? Maybe it is stopping being R and becoming more of a M again ?

Yes and no. We definitely don’t chant the R mantra everyday, but we do talk about R. And we also have a marriage that’s not that much different than our pre-A marriage. But that’s more on the surface. I feel like there’s a holding back from both of us. Him, because fear of being hurt, maybe? Flinching, like Owl6118 said before? And from me because I don’t know how it’ll be received or because when I do it’s not reciprocated so the message is it’s unwanted. But that may not be fair of me.

If it isn’t painfully obvious, I’m kind of groping in the dark here. But one message that I keep hearing so far is me being vulnerable with him to my fullest extent and let the chips fall where they may.

We are 9 1/2 years out, with divorce and remarriage (to each other) during that time. He hasn’t initiated for years. I told him over and over that it was important to me that he do sometimes. Didn’t, so I stopped. We haven’t had sex in six months.

We also have zero emotional intimacy and connection, though, so it’s a different situation.

Mrs W, that warning was part of the quote, it was a warning for a different woman I wrote that to a long time ago.

But my purpose is sharing the quote was NOT to send you into a shame spiral. Please, don't stay there.

It was to encourage you to ASK what HE feels,and thinks. If you ask, he might share. And if you ask it might force him to try to articulate the source of his blues this past antiversary season, something he may possibly have been unable or reluctant to do.

I'm not trying to send you back to 4 years ago. I am trying to give you courage to be vulnerable enough to ask where he is now in the heart, in the soul. To ask him to trust you enough to share with you where his hurt is now, and let you help heal it now.

It might be this hurt I wrote about in the quote. It might be something else. You won't find out if you don't ask, and ask in a way that leads with you being vulnerable, to make it safe for him to be.

It's like when you read his thread, albeit preferably without the catonia and the ER this time (black humour). A joyful day I called it, becuase he no longer had to be alone. So, don't let him be alone. Be there with him.

[This message edited by Owl6118 at 5:04 PM, October 3rd (Thursday)]

If he doesn’t want me, then don’t we need to work on that if we want a healthy M?

Depends on how much you need it.

Shouldn’t we address it?

You should talk about everything IMO. Vulnerability.

And if he does want me, but something is holding him back from initiating emotional intimacy or sex, shouldn’t we address that too?

You should talk about it. If that is what he feels. It may be something you can't fix. For instance. My wife loves me. We have a great marriage now. Even knowing that she isn't passionate like she used to be for me. I am okay with that. She is okay with that. I know I fucked that up in a major way. We are open about it and how she feels. I am still wanting to be with her even if she never feels the sexual passion for me that she used to have. I certainly don't expect her to be like that after what I did. I would think it would be pretty hard to be passionate like that for someone that chose to hurt you so badly. She still loves me though and doesn't want anyone else. She has maybe initiated sex a handful of times since Dday. I am the one to initiate it and I make damn sure it is never about meeting my sexual needs. It is about building intimacy. Sharing. Spending time together. I know I don't feel at all it should be even after what I did. I don't see it as all doom and gloom either. Time may build that up again. It may not. I am willing to have that sacrifice because that is the price I paid for fucking her over even though we are R.

Hi Mrs. W,

I thought of posting earlier, but told myself to wait, and compose something that was not too brusque, so here I am, less brusque....

I was in your BH's position many moons ago, and it has changed me in a fundamental way.

Prior to my ex sleeping with her ex-boyfriend, I was known to be a happy go lucky kinda guy. The epitome of Mr. Nice Guy, never had a bad word to say about anyone.

My ex's betrayal changed me in a fundamental way, Mr. Nice Guy disappeared, and has never been seen again. He re-surfaces in a shallow kind of way, in social settings, but he is truly gone.

Walloped has possibly undergone such a transformation, as the hurt does change a person. Will he be able to regain the intimacy with you? I would say yes, but qualify it that it will not be the same as before.

I hope I am wrong, and that Walloped is actually distracted by work or something else, but if he has gone through a similar transformation, it will possibly be the new reality for you.

The fallout of betrayal is a Catch-22 situation. You will never forget, but in order to get back 100%, you will have to forget.....

ETA: I have high hopes that both you and Walloped can have a happy and fulfilling life ahead.

[This message edited by RocketRaccoon at 4:38 AM, October 4th (Friday)]

You should talk about everything IMO. Vulnerability.

Zugzwang - Yes. Of course. But whenever I bring it up I get brushed off with an “I’m fine” or “there’s nothing going on.”

Nothing about what I’m saying is meant as a complaint about my needs not being met. It’s really that I don’t know what he’s feeling or thinking, he won’t share if there’s anything wrong, but the feelings I’m getting tell me something is there, and that’s causing me concern. If I could get it out in the open then we can talk about it. Maybe there’s nothing I can do about it, but at least I’d know where his heart and his head is.

RocketRaccoon - It might be his and my new normal, but if I knew that that’s what it was I could deal with it. I can work towards increasing vulnerability and intimacy and understand that he may not want to get closer on a deeper level because of what I did.

And like I said to Zugzwang, I’d know what my normal is. Throughout our R, I’ve tried to increase our connection without pushing him. It’s like our dance classes where someone has to lead but you have to do it gracefully and not be pushy or your partner will trip and fall. I try to be sensitive to him and not push at all but also let him know that I’ll go further if he wants me to. So that’s why I initiate sex and I share with him emotionally but if he doesn’t reciprocate or doesn’t engage too much when I ask a deeper question then I back off. I try to be respectful of his emotional space.

Maybe there’s no good answer. All I know is that I feel like something is off.

Nothing about what I’m saying is meant as a complaint about my needs not being met. It’s really that I don’t know what he’s feeling or thinking, he won’t share if there’s anything wrong, but the feelings I’m getting tell me something is there, and that’s causing me concern. If I could get it out in the open then we can talk about it. Maybe there’s nothing I can do about it, but at least I’d know where his heart and his head is

I don't know how long you have been feeling this way, but I want to offer this - sometimes my husband will have emotions that he can't figure out or explain. They have to tumble around for a very long time before he is ready to have a conversation about it because he likes to talk in more concrete ways. It may be that Walloped (if there is something wrong) can't yet formulate or put his finger on it. And, he may be aware that what's on his mind may not be something you can do anything about so he may feel that expressing it is unfair. H will do that sometimes, it's very frustrating. But, I think sometimes he's working on part of his healing and a lot of thoughts and feelings come up that he thinks would be hurtful to me. He doesn't want to feel them at all, he wants to work through them. If I am over here doing my part, there is nothing he can really ask of me to help him with it so he remains silent. Often I hear more about those struggles after the fact. Not sure it's healthy, but I truly believe that is the only way he knows he can cope with it.

Maybe there’s no good answer. All I know is that I feel like something is off.

I trust that you are right, I think female instincts come into play. And, he's been posting a little more, which could mean he's reading a little more and possibly working through something. He may be telling you everything is fine because he feels hopeful or confident that he will work through it, and he's committed to your marriage. I am sure he's seen your post, have you two discussed this thread?

MrsWalloped

We were pretty even about this before my A, so I can’t help but assume it’s connected

I am giving this from my own experience and personality so if it doesn't fit you and Walloped please disregard.

My wife needs love and wants respect. I on the other hand need respect and want love.

My wife and I are even in that because she respects me as her H and loves me as her partner, I am able to love her as my W and respect her as my partner.

When she shows disrespect towards me it is tough for me to love her.

When I fail to love her it is tough for her to respect me.

When my ExWW cheated she showed a total lack of respect for me as her husband and this caused me to lose all love for her as my W.

There would have been nothing she could have done to fix this even if she wanted to.

If Walloped is anything like me you need to stop talking and acting in the language of love toward him and start talking and acting in the language of respect.

For me – it all depends on the roller coaster of the day.

After DDay3 HB doesn’t hit me as hard anymore. Basically – I only initiate when I have an itch I want scratched. And then I make sure I enjoy it to the fullest. And that is in reality as crude as it sounds.

But while I can f*** to my hearts content [because that is what it is] – making love – being intimate – sharing that special bond – I can’t. Because he got a LTAP. That part of me is dead. That specialness is gone. Shattered.

Even without sex – at night. Laying in his arms. He’s warm. He’s enveloped me. He’s comfortable. And I know he did this with her too when he could. In those moments - he’s at peace and I’m in pain.

Every time I think of maybe seeing glimmers of the warm starting to return in me – those mind movies hit and BAM! The reality of 4.5 years…

I’m not sure what I can say to help. But I can say that proven behavior over time is the only thing that has a chance of breaking down the mental barrier.