SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Agreed. There are a lot of studies - the article does a bit of a review.

There are a number of variables that effect the results. For example:

- The questions asked (ie. whether it includes EAs and PAs for example)

- the circumstances under which they were asked (ie. whether family members were present during the survey - obviously changed the answers)

- the time frame under which it was asked (ie. women were less likely to cheat in the 60s than they are today)

- the characteristics of the sample asked (ie. married people vs. unmarried people vs. just-married people, the ages of the people asked, the socio-economic status of the people asked, etc)

As a whole though, the studies clearly establish that men cheat more often than women. Particularly when it comes to PAs vs. EAs.

Cheaters lie...a lot. So why would they tell the truth in any poll or survey?

the time frame under which it was asked (ie. women were less likely to cheat in the 60s than they are today)

If true, why is this the case?

I don't know the particulars of that or any study, but I don't trust studies that rely solely on people volunteering information that makes them look bad. Even if those people are anonymous. Every one of us here, BS and WS alike, should recognize the human need to "not look/feel like a bad person".

the time frame under which it was asked (ie. women were less likely to cheat in the 60s than they are today)

If true, why is this the case?

The sexual revolution for one - we aren't brought up with the taboos about sex as women once were, at least not to the same degree.

Independence - we now are out and about in many more situations without our spouses than used to happen. More of us travel, are in the workplace, etc.

Society in general has become more open towards just about everything - affairs and other promiscuity is all over things we read, watch, etc.

We as a society also have higher expectations of marriage than those in earlier times. What was acceptable from marriage in terms of what boxes it checked are much different than they are today. Those generations had it right about honoring commitments, we are all more of a generation of "do what makes you happy" type mentality.

I did some searching and read the abstract for the study that this 1% statistic apparently comes from has to do with a self-reported survey about whether or not the surveyed individuals intended to have PAs

Well, that I can actually believe. As this site has shown me in, it seems very rare for a woman to have an A "intending" to have sex. It's just not a typical female motivation. As another poster said, I have no difficulty believing that more men are "premeditating" PA's. However, I'm not sure that's the least bit surprising, speaking personally, if I wasn't "premeditating" sex, well, sex would not be happening. So, for me, it would be a foregone conclusion that I'd premeditated a PA otherwise there would be no PA. There are posters here with a different experience, where the female AP was the one out for sex/premeditating the PA, but if my experience in "standard" relationships is any guide, that's not typical.

To Hiking's list, add "no fault divorce". Affairs basically became "free" with the death of fault based divorce, if you can cheat and still get 1/2 of everything (for either gender) well, that's certainly removing some of the downside. I think that probably works both ways "he/she will get/give me 1/2 not matter what, so..".

[This message edited by Rideitout at 3:08 PM, October 21st (Monday)]

I doubt any statistics about cheaters are correct. They all lie. Mine lied to me, his counselors and our MC for two years. Why wouldn't he lie on a survey?

As for anecdotal evidence...

My BF (married woman) cheated with an unmarried man (though he was in a LTR)

Another friend (woman) cheated on her husband with a married man

My BIL cheated on his wife with a single woman.

My father cheated with a divorced woman.

My good friend was cheated on by her husband - the OW was a friend and part of a couple in their small friend group.

Friend's husband is a serial cheater who hooks up with anything at his bar, so I wouldn't know if they were single or married.

My WH cheated with a married woman (doubt it was her first the way she was so aggressive and very knowledgeable about Plan B birth control after 13 years of her own marriage.)

The other cheaters I can think of are married men who cheated with married women. (4 wound up divorcing their spouses and marrying their APs)

I'd guess more married men than married women cheat, but I'd guess the numbers are closer than they used to be just because women are more open about sexuality, they more independent, and more present in the workplace than they were say 30-40 years ago.

Dang there's a lot of cheating out there. I really think there should be some genetic coding done on this. So that those of us without the missing morality gene could get married instead of falling for someone who would eventually destroy us.

In The Monogamy Myth, Peggy Vaughan says that conservative estimates from her research are that 60% of married men and 40% of married women will have an affair. But you can't assume that the 60% and the 40% are having the affairs with each other, so she even goes on to say that the number could be that over 80% of marriages will be affected by infidelity. That's a staggering number and makes you wonder why people get married in the first place. I never would have listened to any of these stats before marriage because I wasn't going to be one of those affected. It was not in me, and I was 100% sure it wasn't in her...that didn't work out so well.

I'm always skeptical of infidelity studies as I think it is too easy for liars to lie. But 1% of women? Yeah, uh huh. I got myself a unicorn then...

the time frame under which it was asked (ie. women were less likely to cheat in the 60s than they are today)

If true, why is this the case?

To add to what HikingOut wrote, I think there are a lot of factors.

A lot of it has to do with the fact that women are more likely to work outside of the home. Years ago, women didn't work outside of the home and were dependent on their husband's financially. Divorce was rare and the laws didn't presume 50/50 splits. As such, the consequences of an A were *FAR* more significant to women than to men (both financially and socially). Now that women work outside of the home, they have more financial independence - which makes them more likely to have an A. Also, there are a lot more opportunities to meet APs at work. Think about how many people have affairs with co-workers.

What is good for the goose is also good for the gander. Men who are financially well-off are also more likely to have As.

Interesting, no shortage of theories as to why men cheat more, but still not one answer to who were these men screwing around with!?!

I guess it’s pick a social narrative and draw conclusions that best suite it.

Personally, from my understanding, without reading this studies the only true conclusion I hear is that men are more willing to tell the truth!!! Lol, where’s my popcorn...

In The Monogamy Myth, Peggy Vaughan says that conservative estimates from her research are that 60% of married men and 40% of married women will have an affair. But you can't assume that the 60% and the 40% are having the affairs with each other, so she even goes on to say that the number could be that over 80% of marriages will be affected by infidelity. That's a staggering number and makes you wonder why people get married in the first place. I never would have listened to any of these stats before marriage because I wasn't going to be one of those affected. It was not in me, and I was 100% sure it wasn't in her...that didn't work out so well.

Those numbers seem to jive well with my observed interactions with men. I have no idea on women, but I do know of my share of married men who've been cheated on too (usually after they did it first, but still).

What's more interesting to me, looking across the marriages of my contemporaries, I can only point to 1-2 where I'm relatively sure neither cheated (out of perhaps 20 or so that I know well enough to have an informed idea). It's a shockingly high percentage where one/both partners have cheated (of course, I belong in that group too, but I've never told anyone, I suspect my friends think I'm the 1-2 that hasn't cheated or been cheated on, so.. What does that tell you).

Interesting, no shortage of theories as to why men cheat more, but still not one answer to who were these men screwing around with!?!

It's not that hard to answer; a serial adulteress can easily wind up with numbers like this. One woman can rack up dozens of "cheating men" to her credit (as can a man, IE, my W's AP, but, in answer to your question..). If it helps, think about prostitutes, how many "cheating men" can look to a single prostitute and say "that's the AP"? Could be 100's or 1000's of men, all cheaters, and only one woman, who, in most cases, isn't a cheater herself. Very easy to get to lopsided stats like this without breaking any logic laws.

What is good for the goose is also good for the gander. Men who are financially well-off are also more likely to have As.

Well, I'm not so sure about that first statement. I think that some people think that might be a good thing, but I kind of see this like women being arrested for murder as often as men, while we can all say "Yeah! Equality achieved" I'm not sure that's really the result we're looking for here. But I think you're onto something; I do think that there's a lot of "typically male" behavior that's rubbed off on women, and, sadly, a lot of it is the negative stuff (like affairs). The thing that always makes me think though, how many women do we see coming here out of an A that have no idea which way is up? Lost, confused, sad, hurt, damaged.. They are doing a mimic of a male behavior and not getting at all what they expected out of it. And I think that this extends WAY beyond affairs, the "hookup culture" the dearth of children born.. Women are starting to adopt more and more male behaviors, and, I really do wonder, are they happier for it? Yeah, you can go f**k the secretary too, but why; why are you doing this, is this something you want, or is society just telling you "go girl!" and you're not thinking through the consequences? Or even positive behaviors; the corporate, high paid, high power woman who hates every minute of it, but feels she has to do it because it's expected of her. I realize there are people who want that life for themselves, and I think it's great that those options are available and would stridently defend that equality. But is it really making people happier to say we all "get to be male" with the good "money, sex on the side, power" and the bad "never home, no time for a family, marriage explodes from affairs, etc"? I don't know, I'm sure, if you asked my W, she'd tell you that she hates this part of the world, she'd much rather be a SAHM, an option that's been taken from her/most women because of all the dual income households today. And yes, she got to diddle someone in the office, another "typically male" "benefit". Was that worth the price she paid for it, did she really want to have that "freedom"? IDK, I really don't, but it seems that using "bad male behavior" as the new goal post for what we should all aspire to misses about 95% of what it is for, at least me, to be male.

To be clear RIO, I'm not "cheering on" anyone. I'm not saying "you go, girl" because I believe increased female infidelity is a goal of equality. I'm just pointing out that having a higher socio-economic status is a factor associated with a greater likelihood of cheating for both men and women - something that is not my opinion but is bourne out by research.

Personally, I want to work or win the lottery. I have no desire to be dependent upon a man's salary. I stayed home one year with a baby and a toddler and it is not for me. Just isn't my thing. I suck at cooking, hate to clean, not interested in small talk with the other moms about what's on sale at Belk's this week or a great baking recipe, no good at putting together parties and events, etc. and so on. So unless I am transgender and don't realize it, I am a woman who would have been utterly miserable in the 1950s. Stay at home moms are badass if you ask me, but I was not good at it. I admire those who are because I think they are gifts to their children.

So, RIO, unless I need to go get surgery to have a penis added, I'm a woman who is profoundly happier than I would have been in a "simpler" time. I don't have the vocabulary to express how amazing it feels to have a house in my name only. I run my life and I like the hell out of it. I am beholden to no man. I may choose to share my life with one one day, but I am eternally grateful that I was born in a time in which that wasn't the only way that I could survive.

Just throwing out a theory... I believe women more often have exit affairs. Men are happy to cake eat but dont intend to leave but women have sometimes already left. I wonder if because alot of wws leave and wait for their aps or at dday leave even if their ap doesnt leave their spouse they dont regard themselves as cheats. I.e they had already checked out of their marriage. It's not uncommon for wws to have said it was over they were unhappy separate beds etc during A. And continue to detach after. They probably dont end up here because they have less motivation to R or feel remorse because they were done with the M. So I bet when quizzed they wont picture or view themselves as cheats. The other thing reinforcing this I wonder how many wws have an EA and leave at the point of it turning PA. And because ea is much harder to determine and much easier to deny again they believe they havent cheated. Appears many wws consummate the PA during a "separation" against just mental gymnastics to allow them to justify their actions.

Also women as a basic instinct tend to mate poach. They will automatically find another "good partner" more attractive and attempt to win him over. Taken men often appear more attractive it's a natural instinctive phenomenon for some reason. So single woman and married women are perhaps more likely to pursue a married man. Because both the emotional and security is more than the physical. Where as whs as usually just interested in the physical at least initially so who's willing and who will give them less hassle is the target..its about opportunity rather than mate poaching.

[This message edited by Tentwinkletoes at 4:33 PM, October 21st (Monday)]

Women are starting to adopt more and more male behaviors, and, I really do wonder, are they happier for it?

I don't think that I follow your point. Are you suggesting that perhaps equality is not actually a good thing because your wife cheated with a co-worker and you think she'd rather be a SAHM? That is an outrageous premise.

Women have always cheated. Men have always cheated. No one sex has the market cornered on infidelity. Cheating is not a "male behaviour" any more than lying is.

That seems just weird to me, Tentwinkletoes. The best way for a man to be off my list of people to pursue is for him to be interested in someone else, dating, or married. I don't get the mate poaching thing. That's not typical of women, is it?

You guys are going to have me changing my name to DevastatedDeeWayne.

Seriously though...how do we know how many women cheated back in the day anyway? Having that known would likely end a woman's ability to take care of herself and her children if you go back to when we didn't tend to work or get paid much if we did. Why on earth would bored Betty housewife tell anyone she had been sleeping with another man? Not even single women tended to admit to not being virgins when they were young and unmarried, right? I wouldn't trust the first statistic that relied upon women admitting something that might cause them to be homeless and reviled no matter how anonymous it was supposed to be.

Women are starting to adopt more and more male behaviors, and, I really do wonder, are they happier for it?

I don't know what is meant by this statement. But, I have noticed some women taking on some male characteristics. I'm primarily talking about how some women speak. I realize I come from a culture that is dying off; but I do remember when I was younger that I seldom if ever heard a woman using foul language. This was my observation and maybe untrue.

As a man, I always preferred women who acted feminine. Women who shared very many traits with a man were a turn off to me.

Now, before I get skewered, I am not talking about women in the workforce, equal pay for equal work and all that.

But as for women being more likely to get into an affair because she is more like a male...I have no idea or opinion about that. At least not until I see more data.

Devastateddee I 100% agree with you. Infact I mentioned couple married men being interested in me totally went down in my estimations and now I can only see flaws in them because I could see them as being unreliable cheating married men! But mate poaching is very real. And does fall into certain character type no surprises the type of person who cheats....Some studies suggest up to 50% of current relationships started off the back of mate poaching. And given women tend to use affairs to exit it would make sense they are poaching with affairs. So I wonder if in these circumstances the men have a cross over where they cheat and leave for the poacher. Or the poached...or even dont leave at all. Whereas the woman perhaps leaves in pursuing of poaching or leaves go be poached. Hence her perception is she hadnt cheated. And his perception is he has. It might account for some of the discrepancy.

Also on wayward type forums its inundated with single long term ow. There are some married ow there too. But overwhelmingly its single ow. So I dont think it's wrong to assume they hope to mate poach. While the married man cake eats and has no intention to leave for the ow. These women waste years lying to themselves.

There fewer men full stop on the forums so hard to know what their status is. Assuming they dont reach out on online forums as much. Perhaps because the cake eaters compartmentalise more and dont feel the need to discuss or analyse their affairs. While the single aps do as they long for more while the married aps are happy with the status quo.