SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Nope, it happened before. Biggest clue was XH was going to leave me at the airport with the kids (I was pregnant at the time, youngest was 1) after a 11 hours flight from France to DFW. The 2 oldest got told to stay with me to help me out with the little ones. Yep. His excuse to be alone was he wanted to save money instead of spending it on a taxi ($40). Obviously we all went home in a taxi and as soon as we arrived, he looked at the house and told me it was"full of crap ". XH didn't get to call his AP as soon as he was back in the US because of me, so it was a good reason to insult me instead. Of course, just before going to France for 3 weeks, his company had sent "an email" telling their employees that they couldn't use their phone abroad (the company is based in Finland) but the phone went with us anyway. His phone (before going to France) was mysteriously dead and not charged on weekends because he would totally forget about it and so would leave it "in the car". He would get as soon as I was sleeping, duh.

I mean, the AP could be the same. To this day, he still hasn't admitted having sex with her (she was a co worker) and we are 6 yrs out . If it was the same AP, it was a + 3 yrs LTA.

Anyway, he never admitted Affair 1. And affair 2 started a week before I gave birth.

He was way more blatant with his phone the 2nd time, since he was with me, who believed every lie and never made him prove anything. AP was texting him constantly, even on weekends - multiple time, so was only a matter of time before a text would land in my hand. That's probability for you - simple maths.

Yes I still believed that he was checking his work emails, the weather, the soccer results when I would find him in the bedroom on his phone. I did ask him about a vasectomy because I wanted sex with my husband, and he found a great excuse (it was going to hurt).

By fluke AP sent a text just as I had his phone and we went pop. Btw it was a good time for him to announce that he had wanted to be single for a long time. Kids were 1.5yrs old, 3, 5 and 14 and 1 just gone to college. And I was a sahm. I literally had just sold my (fully paid, cheap to run) property in England, so I couldn't even go back there.

I never hated somebody that much.

eta: yes I fell like the biggest naive idiot when I realised how blatant he had been, with texting the AP at home. I felt like the most unattractive person on earth because my own busband didn't even want sex with me (but banged the AP at every opportunity). But you know what? I trusted my husband. I will never apologise for wanting a honest marriage and trusting him.

What I hate is how much compromises I was doing. How much I wanted my family to stay together. That I was begging my husband for sex and just to spend time together. That I was playing the pick-me dance scene before I knew he was in an affair and I would fall flat on my face because my dh wouod turn me down or find excuses not to be with me but I would try again. And again. And again.

Broken,

When you have had TT you just don't know what it believe anymore. When is it done? It is deeply traumatic and damaging. The poly can come in handy so you know and feel you have a baseline of the truth. Your gut also is something to listen to. This can be hard though if you have been lied to quite a bit. So I think a poly can help bring you some peace or it will reveal more to you. I was satisfied after the poly that I had the truth. However, all the TT and the lies and horrible betrayals left me unsatisfied. I think with too much TT you can stop caring all together. For some people they have enough information to make a decision. Other people feel the need to know it all and that was me.

[This message edited by Jesusismyanchor at 6:41 PM, March 7th (Saturday)]

the gut was never wrong.

polygraph test time.

Not in my case. He asked me on dday if there were more and I said no. He was willing at the time to believe me, didn't ask again. I was convinced I could keep the secret. And while I planned to take it to my grave or take it somewhere as long as I could, ultimately I chose to come clean.

And, as sisoon mentioned, remorse has that effect on one. That and I learned quickly that we couldn't start until the truth was out in the open. That meant a lot to me.

You know there are many one time offenders. Its possible.

But, I will say too wearing my BS hat, my gut told me there was more. Lo and behold it was right. I had to dig on my own to unearth his affairs and inappropriate behavior. He wasn't about to be forthcoming, most aren't. I know first hand how hard it is to be honest about it. You've got to muster incredible courage to divulge multiple offenses on your own free will. Crazy intense fear behind the silence.

There are two camps of "fuck it I'll do whatever it takes" one side is for honesty and repair the other lying and prolonging.

Also, nothing wrong with following your gut to any measure you seem suitable. Those who have nothing to hide, hide nothing.

I found out about another affair exactly 1 month after DDay 1, my WH broke down in tears said if he told me the truth he's sure I'd leave him because he started having an affair in 2018. He felt it's impossible for me to forgive him had I known it was that long ago. He tried to minimize the damage by, again, lying. Some people are truly broken and it's not your fault.

You need to trust your gut and look hard for evidence. I know it's maddening, it's screwing with your head but you deserve the whole truth. Good luck.

A remorseful WS is more likely to tell you at least most of what happened.

A non-remorseful WS or one who only admits to what you have already found, probably has a lot more secrets in the closet. Sadly, R with this person is almost impossible and probably not worth the effort.

For those of you that kept digging, how did you find the proof? What was it? I keep finding shady things but she always has an excuse to explain it away? The last few times I've asked she's gotten quite mad. Not sure if this is normal exasperation or not.

I’ve tried to always know a bit more than I admit in hopes to see some honesty

On Dday 2 , I discovered that my fWH had been carrying on for YEARS , not weeks as he admitted to initially

And part of what I discovered was that he had taken her on a trip so I blurted out something I assumed , but when I did , it was an accusation...turned out to be real and I fell apart with that confession

I don't believe for a minute it was his first time. I think that's why he was so shocked when I busted him. I do however think it was the only long term A, which leads me to believe he had very strong feelings for her.

There's no way to go through our history to prove anything in the past. Just reflections of gut feelings I had over the years. But his being so comfortable in a LTA to me is indicative of past betrayals he got away with. There's no point in asking either because if he can't answer questions about his LTA 4 years later he sure as hell isn't copping to anything prior that I can't prove.

For those of you that kept digging, how did you find the proof? What was it? I keep finding shady things but she always has an excuse to explain it away? The last few times I've asked she's gotten quite mad. Not sure if this is normal exasperation or not.

After Dday 1, which was a TT , rug sweeping closely guarded period , I just knew in my heart that there was more

We went through a hysterical bonding phase ( wasn't aware this was a * thing * at the time )

My fWH travelled for work and when he did, I snooped in the attempt to get more information that my gut told me I needed

It occurred to me that his AP ( that had been working for him ) had access and used a company owned gmail account

The account was owned by my fWH

He had given me access to his hotmail account so I managed to reset the password for the email she had been using , sent the reset text to his hotmail and BOOM , I had my in

I saw photos dating back to as early as 2011 and proof of trips he went on with her because receipts from car rentals and hotel reservation company were shared with her

Having another Dday was almost more gut wrenching than the first one because it proved to me that he was still lying

Maybe I'm being too logical but in my mind you don't just jump into a LTA right? You don't just hop into the deep end. One slowly wades out. But who knows the mental gymnastics that are needed to cheat aren't really logical.

I see a whole bunch of "trust your gut feelings", but in my case my gut feeling was that everything was great, and that she'd never cheat. If not for an anonymous email, I'd never have known.

That being said, when confronted she came clean with ALL the details, with zero TT.

For those of you that kept digging, how did you find the proof? What was it? I keep finding shady things but she always has an excuse to explain it away? The last few times I've asked she's gotten quite mad. Not sure if this is normal exasperation or not.

Uh-oh. Obviously, everyone is different to some extent. But for me, after the initial discovery, anger was the roadmap. My WW's anger meant there was something else there. Every time.

My own theory is this- "intuition" is really another word for subconsciously picking up cues. It's a battle between our constructed reality that's in place because of our mental habits and desires, and external, true reality.

Once intuition told me the relationship I had long suspected was more than friendship could not possibly be anything other than an affair, the realities started merging. Every time I gave the benefit of the doubt to my new conception of her as a collector of sexual adventures, I discovered eventually that I was right. It hurt like hell.

Which is a longwinded way of saying that once you know your vision of your spouse isn't accurate, maybe it doesn't really matter whether this detail or that detail is true. My WW swore no sex. I kept pressing. She kept getting angrier. Finally, my poor brain said, "Enough. Who cares? She was willing and ready. She isn't who I thought she was, and that's not going to change."

Granted, now I'm headed for D as fast as I can go, because the anger, lies, and lack of remorse didn't stop. If you want to reconcile, I think you have to be willing to do that while assuming that your worst fears are well-founded. Otherwise, the nagging questions threaten to sink you.

So maybe, rather than go the polygraph route first, try on the idea that what you suspect really is the case. Do you still want to reconcile anyway? If you do, you might be able to pull it off, but only with a willing, capable, truly remorseful spouse. If you're there, maybe it's worth it to pay for a polygraph.

[This message edited by Slanted at 11:35 AM, March 8th (Sunday)]

My own theory is this- "intuition" is really another word for subconsciously picking up cues. It's a battle between our constructed reality that's in place because of our mental habits and desires, and external, true reality.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. Each person's conscious existence is entirely subjective. We're really good at constructing multiple filters to insulate us from the harsh realities of the world. These are the mechanisms which allow us to compartmentalize so efficiently. These are the foundations of our own unavoidable hypocrisies. These are the root causes of cognitive dissonance. We all have our own narrative that we hold dear like a security blanket and these filters are the threads that keep that blanket intact.

The gut feeling is our fail safe. It tries to override these heaps of bullshit to switch us into self-preservation mode. It's that nagging feeling that something about the "reality" we've constructed for ourselves isn't quite right. It's the mechanism which pokes holes in our chosen narrative to get us to wake up and discover what's *really* going on. We feel it when we're not pulling our weight at work. We feel it when we're procrastinating something important. We feel it when we're letting crucial personal relationships fall to the wayside.

Like anything, our gut feelings manifest differently in each of us, react differently to the unique circumstances we find ourselves in, and their triggering can be avoided by particularly slippery actors in the world who cover their ass like gangbusters. Still, that nagging voice in our heads that's trying to alert us of potential danger should, barring some kind of pathology, ALWAYS be taken into consideration.

First time I caught him he claimed it was the first time. Later found out it had been 20 years of cheating and lying to my face. They lie.

In the past months since D-Day I've learned to trust my gut. I was a complete chump before D-day and just missed a whole host of 'inconsistencies' any one of which would absolutely cause alarm today... all because I completely trusted my WW. Those days are long gone and now when my spider senses tingle, I dig in because I trust my gut and I hate secrets. So far my gut has been 100%. I now think of myself as a highly attuned bullshit sensor.

Having said that, if all the proof you have is your gut, you can't make a cheater volunteer the truth without changing the rules. My gut was telling me there was still something rotten in Denmark, that my wife was still lying about something but I could not get her to come clean. After months of my gut whispering to me... 'not sure this adds up'. I trust my gut so I threatened a polygraph. When I did my wife pushed back and at that very moment my gut started screaming at me "THIS DOESN'T ADD UP!!!!". I told her the polygraph would be REQUIRED for R. Turns out I was right and eventually she spilled the beans on a whole bunch of new crap that I get to deal with now.

I'm not going to lie, all that new crap has been hell to deal with, not as bad as D-Day but close. I came so very close to giving up on R after she came clean. My IC knows I'm focused on R and how much this new information hurt me and so she tries to dissuade me from digging in on more details of the past. She tries to get me to focus on what my WW is doing to repair the damage she caused me and our M and to try to make peace with my WW's ugly past if I can.

I wish I could make peace, but I fucking hate secrets. Also, I don't know how we can really R without full disclosure. My gut is convinced there is more to learn so I'm moving forward with the poly... but I'm scared to death of what my WW has yet to tell me. Broken... my advice is, if you're like me (we are both broken) and hate secrets then trust your gut and get a poly, but be sure that's what you want because cheaters secrets always sting.

CallingSpades:

WH gave me a list of all the women he could have but DIDN'T cheat with, all with explanations, and all because they were not attractive enough or didn't offer.

To which, you can reply: here’s a list of men you could have but... didn’t offer:

Zac Efron, George Clooney....

My WH is a lifetime cheater. So, I guess first time I caught him was 1st time he cheated with me, but not 1st time he cheated. And FWIW, I still don't believe he's told me of all his PAs or even EAs. I suspect he's still got stuff that he plans to take to the grave....

Trust your gut and look at facts and behaviour. It is a better indicator than anything else.

My WH cheated for 10 years. I knew something was wrong but I believed it was other stuff. But I didn’t want to see it. So I believed the story.

Don’t lie to yourself. If something smells, the stink is likely there.

Sorry to sound so negative, I was trusting and enabled the cheating unwittingly.

Call me a chump, but no more.

Brokendad

Thanks again everybody. It's reassuring and yet at thee same time disheartening to know my gut might be right.

Yes, your gut may or may not be right. The question of its the first or only time is probably in almost everyones mind.

it was on the polygraph test. Trusting your gut is fine but its not perfect. use the tools available if you want to improve the odds of knowing .