SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Just some background first...I have been married for 12 years and have 2 children under the age of 12. My wife and I have both worked full time while raising 2 children.I should also add that I am in my late 50's and she in her late 40's. I know we are not unique with having the grind of working and raising a family and the stresses that come along with it. We are very compatible, have similar interests and agree on most things. There have always been problems in our marriage but it was easy to avoid them with the distraction of our work. The issues caused me to shut down from time to time. It eventually led to us sleeping in separate bedrooms yet we still had sex sporadically. Once the Covid shutdown happened we like everyone else were forced to all be home in quarantine. Sometime in March is when I saw a drastic change in my wife like a flick of a switch. She told me should could not handle the shutdown and felt completely trapped. I think it also forced us to take a close look at our marriage and problems. For weeks we would fight about our problems over the past 8 years. She suggested we need marriage counseling and I agreed. My gut was there was a more serious problem than our already broken marriage. I asked her if we could talk things out while trying to find a marriage counselor. She would go into rage and rant about how bad of a husband I am and give me every detail of how bad I was over the entirety of our marriage. I told her I loved her and owned up to my part of making her feel neglected and wanting to work on making things better. She insists that I don't care about her and wants space and the counseling to let things work out. I asked if she was having an affair and she said no. She assures me she doesn't want divorce or separation and wants to resolve things with a counselor. By June I just could not take it anymore. I was in the dark about why these extreme things were happening. I was torn apart inside with feelings of my marriage and family imploding. My kids, although young, have a good sense of our problems and I can see how it is making them depressed. I felt I had to go with my gut that there was something else going on so I did my own detective work. By late June I discovered that my wife was having an affair with a coworker. I would rather not disclose how I got the evidence but I do have proof of an emotional and physical affair and both of them saying they love each other. I recently approached my wife that I was aware of an affair and would not have approached her if I wasn't sure. I asked her to be honest about what happened. She went into a rage and would not answer anything unless I told her what and how I knew.I told her I knew she was meeting with him on several occasions but did not mention proof of physical affair. She said she knew the guy about 6 months. Said they both had marriage problems and felt lonely so happy to help each other. Said he pursued her but that there was no sex. I told her I own up to causing our marriage to fail and not being emotionally available for her in the past. Told her I still loved her and wanted to work through it. She said she didn't want to split, continue to work on us but to leave her alone right now. She was mostly enraged that I had her investigated and told me to stop. She also said she will not stop seeing this person and feels the support from him is justified given how bad our marriage has been. I know most will read this and quickly say there is no hope for this marriage and maybe say that it is not my fault. I do feel like it is my fault for letting the marriage get to this point of there being an an affair. I guess I am in the fog but still feel I want to salvage this marriage. The thought of breaking up my family and permanently damaging my kids is ripping me apart. Hoping to hear some unbiased feedback. Much appreciated.

First and most importantly - THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT. Nothing you did or did not do, nothing you said or did not say caused your wife to cheat. That is ALL on her.

Look, NO marriage is perfect because no person is perfect. My guess is that all the 'major' issues your wife alludes to are actually pretty run-of-the-mill for most couples. And yes, you had a hand in the marriage but here's the kicker - YOU didn't decide to cheat.

Told her I still loved her and wanted to work through it. She said she didn't want to split, continue to work on us but to leave her alone right now. She was mostly enraged that I had her investigated and told me to stop. She also said she will not stop seeing this person and feels the support from him is justified given how bad our marriage has been.

She is flat out telling you here that you are welcome to stay and pay the bills and watch her kids while she fucks this guy on the side. Read enough on SI and you will quickly see that if there is to be ANY hope for R(econciliation), she absolutely must go full NC (no contact) with her AP (affair partner, aka OM-other man, aka posom-I'll let you figure this one out). So, are you willing to let your ww (wayward wife) to be in sexual relationship with someone else?

It's good that you have proof. Keep that close to the vest. And please notice how quickly she moved to "How dare you investigate me?!?" Welp... she has NO legs to stand on here. None.

Please read in the healing library about the 180. That is a technique for you to use that can give you some much needed emotional space to process all of this. Please make sure you are eating and sleeping the best you can. PLEASE avoid alcohol. It's a sad fact that BH (betrayed husbands) need to be advised to cover their asses - there have been plenty of instances of ww's filing false DV charges against their BH. To that end, I wouold also recommend getting a VAR (voice activated recorder) and keep it on you whenever you interact with her.

You will get through this. I know it doesn't feel like that right now, but you will.

She also said she will not stop seeing this person and feels the support from him is justified given how bad our marriage has been. I know most will read this and quickly say there is no hope for this marriage and maybe say that it is not my fault.

What she is telling you, in a nutshell is that she no longer loves you. She may not think so intellectually, but subconsciously she has given herself to another man.

Stick a fork in it. She's done with the marriage. I'm sorry but you need to accept this.

What’s happening is comparable to waking up to a burning house.

There might be flames leaping at you from the drapes and everything filling with smoke. You might be screaming at your WW to get out. She might even agree that there is a problem. Only she also thinks the warmth from the flames is nice and it looks good. She wants to wait in the warmth and enjoy the flames while you phone 911 and get the firemen over.

Just like the burning house you need to address this with the force and seriousness it deserves.

The OM is clearly married – tell his wife. You don’t know if it’s physical but you can definitely tell her that YOU are concerned about their relationship.

No matter how much you work on the relationship, you will not be successful if she is still having an affair. Everything that she should be sharing with you, she shares it with him. You get the filtered version. You are allowing her to paint the picture herself. A marriage has problems and most of the time, they are 50/50. But never, and I mean NEVER are the problems in a marriage 100% one person. Now an affair IS the WS's fault. Totally and completely. Don't fall for that. And her affair is 100% hers. This man is not helping your marriage. He is saying everything your wife wants to hear so he can continue to have sex with her. Pure and simple. Do you know who he is? If you do, find out if he is married and tell his wife. If that does not end the affair, file for divorce. But the affair must end and she MUST go no contact with this man. They are coworkers? She MUST quit that job. If she refuses, file for divorce. But it has to end if you want to save your marriage. She is showing no remorse what so ever. She is not even showing regret? Did she ever apologize for the affair?

Welcome to the best club you never wanted to join. If you look just below your user name in your post you will see this number: 74823.

This means there are 74,822 other people that have come to this site and signed up. This also means, that there is a lot of wisdom here that may be able to help guide you through this shit storm that you find yourself in.

At the top left of the page is a yellow box. There is a bullet point called "The Healing Library". Click on it and you will see lots of information that you can access by clicking on them. The "BS FAQ" is incredibly useful to newly Betrayed Spouses.

Also, at the top of the JFO (Just Found Out) forum, there is a post entitled "Tactical Primer". It is very informative and will help you get your head around this.

Many others will be commenting on your posts, some

of the comments may not make sense to you, some will. Take what works for you and leave the rest.

Please notice that we use paragraphs when we comment. It makes things much easier to read and is appreciated by all of us.

Take a deep breath, and do some reading. Sorry you are here.

There are several truisms that almost everyone who has been through betrayal would agree on. One is that it is impossible to reconcile with a remorseless cheater. Another is that doing the pick me dance never works, and in fact has the opposite effect from what you want.

In a case like yours, the people who have had the most success basically go shock and awe. Expose the affair to her family, have her served with divorce papers, and stop communication with her except for kids and finances.

Honestly you really don't have a choice here. For any chance of reconciliation, she needs to go 100% no contact with AP, she needs to find another job, and she needs to get IC (individual counselling as opposed to marriage counselling which you need to avoid at this point) with someone that will hold her accountable.

Problems in the M you own 50/50, her A is 100% her fault, she decided to have an A, you were in the same M but didn't cheat, see the difference?, in order to have the slightless chance to R, first the A needs to stop and NC FOREVER with OM has to be established, here' are some of the basic steps:

1) EXPOSURE, FULL exposure with ALL family and close friends and especially with OBS (Other Betrayed Spouse) without warning (very important), nothing kills an A faster than full exposure, the OM will typically dump your WW in an effort to save his own M, to him she's probably nothing more than a free side piece. Full exposure typically kills the "beautiful, romantic and exciting" aspect of the A and replaces it with pure shame and embarrassment, the more she hates the A, the more she will hate OM.

2) She needs to senc an NC FOREVER text to OM, short and to the point (no sweet goodbyes or last meet up for "closure" a.k.a one last fuck). If they work together NC is impossible so one of them has to quit, you may contact OM and tell him to quit or you will contact HR (But don't do it just yet in case you later decide to file for D). If OM does not quit then your WW will have to, no questions asked.

3) She needs to offer FULL on demand access to her phone and all electronic devices and passwords FOREVER, again no questions asked.

4) Get tested for STDs, adults involved in an A don't just "hold hands", they have sex, lots of it.

5) Demand she gets tested for STDs (you should too), some STDs can even be transmitted via saliva.

6) Consult a D attorney ASAP to know your options, knowledge is power.

7) She needs intense IC, forget MC for now, it's a waste of time and money while she's still in an active A.

8) If she refuses to comply with any of the above suggestions, just file for D and have her served at work WITHOUT WARNING for maximum impact, if D papers and full exposure don't shock her back to reality, then nothing will. D takes a long time and can be stopped before it's final if she comes around (Or NOT!, by that time you may not want her back).

Keep posting frequently, this is a crucial time and the collective wisdom of SI can help you go through this difficult situation, we've literally seen it play out THOUSANDS of times, every case is different but cheaters typically follow a similar script.

This is not your fault.

File, expose the affair to the OBS (other betrayed spouse) and to her HR. Send an email (don't call) addressing a formal complaint about an inappropriate work relationship. This may seem counter-intuitive, but this strategy is the best chance you might have to end the affair and possibly save your marriage.

But you cannot reconcile while she is still in the affair, no matter how much work you think you are doing.

She wants to have her cake (stability you provide, family) and eat it too (ass-face on the side). Take away her cake.

Do it today. Don't wait to offer conditions or requirements. She isn't interested in really repairing your marriage. So don't give her any options.

If, by some miracle, she has a change of heart, you can always stop the divorce process. But taking the above action will inform you if there is anything left to save of your marriage.

Remember, your marriage is done. She killed it. The only two paths out of this are reconciling, where the two of you fix yourselves and rebuild a whole new marriage. Or divorce.

No third parties allowed.

You need to take action now. The more you settle for her gross entitlement, the more you feed it.

Hang tough.

Squid is right. Either she dumps the OM, or you file for D.

Right now, your WW is teasing you with R. She will go to counseling with you and she will do just enough to keep you on the hook. Meanwhile, she is going to make plans to continue her A and determine whether or not she is ready to kick YOU to the curb and replace you with AP.

Your WW is at fault 100% for her A. She is also EQUALLY at fault with you for the state of your M. Had she suggested MC prior to the A? Had she been taking steps and doing work to improve things and you were just ignoring her? Or was she just letting things happen, just like you were? But you didn't go out chasing other women looking for something else.

Your WW is attacking you to give herself the moral high ground, knowing she is the problem. But if she can make you believe that you are at fault, she wins. Right now, it seems she is winning. you need to stand up for yourself and let her know if she wants to continue the A, she can, but not as your wife.

To add to the good comments above...

Your WW reaction is typical. No one likes to be the bad guy... Your WW started an affair, THEN started to wonder why a wonderful wife would do a bad thing... It can’t possibly be her fault, it it must be her husband fault! Then she made your marriage miserable to justify her cheating.

She just acted angry to make the marriage bad, to justify her cheating.

She wanted to know how you found out so that:

- she can adjust her modus operandi and better hide the affair

- she can only admit to what you know and nothing more.

She’s also angry because you are destroying her fantasy. It’s much less fun to have an affair when everybody knows what you are doing.

If you tell the OBS (I hope you do, she probably doesn’t know that she’s in a bad marriage, and wondering too why her husband is acting so angry all the time), your WW will tell you:

You destroyed his family, how dare you. That’s also stupid, because it’s their cheating that destroyed both marriages, nothing else.

Good luck, and keep on posting.

[This message edited by ShutterHappy at 3:22 PM, July 9th (Thursday)]

A couple things getgo. You're playing the pick-me game. Offering reconciliation right off the bat never works. It also sounds like you're leaning toward rug-sweeping rather than requiring her to fix what she's broken. Again, this ends with bad results.

You have to be willing to lose your marriage if you want to save it. You need to demand a few things one of which she needs to never contact the other man again. Another is that she needs to start counseling asap. Third, she needs to start investing in the marriage. And fourth, she needs to agree to and sign a post-nuptial agreement that you will have your lawyer draw up immediately.

Simultaneously, you need to inform the other man's wife about what is going on. She has a right to know what her husband is doing. When you do this, you put a nail in the coffin of your wife's affair.

Lastly, you must draw lines in the sand for each demand and if the line is crossed, reconciliation is off the table and the divorce paperwork begins.

This may end up being one of the most painful times of your life but it's imperative that you stand up for yourself and be strong.

So sorry you are here.

So she at the minimum is in a EA, crossed the boundaries of the marriage with a married man. Refuses to stop seeing him, blames you for everything. How dare you look into my actions?

Well presently she Is gone, left the marriage; was this her exit A?

MC probably won’t help as she needs to address her reasons as to why it was so easy to divulge to another third party, what she couldn’t say to you.

Be there for the children, talk openly with them. Cease all discussion with your WW unless it pertains to the children or scheduling. Get tested for STDs and STIs there was no safe sex. If she refuses, just remind her some STIs can be passed in saliva or even finger insertion. Sorry about that. Seek legal advice for your location you need to know your rights.

Shine a light on her minimum EA to all, shock and awe.

Be carful if you expose her work place A to HR, it could lead to termination and that could have a affect on alimony.

She has already left the marriage, you need to be prepared to loose her to get her back. The pick me dance doesn’t work, she will think you are weak. Hard 180. Show no emotions to her. She is angry you caught her, not that the marriage is in trouble. Regardless let the other BS know your wife is trying to steel her Marriage. Putting her family at risk as well.

One day at a time

Buffer

Thanks for all the replies. I do agree with the advice and will act on it. I need to step back for a couple days and collect my thoughts before diving into this. Just to be clear, the affair is more than emotional. She only admitted to the emotional and I let it go at that. My proof of phone discussion reveals physical. If there is no regret from her about an emotional affair what does the physical affair matter right now.

I also live in a no fault state for divorce so will need to get the proper legal advice first so I don't get wiped out in the divorce. I really need to protect the assets I owned prior to marriage.

I want to tell the OM wife about everything but I do not know how to contact her. I would need his info first to be able to get contact information. Any suggestions on how others get that info?

If you can afford it, you can hire a PI and have her followed, since she refuses to stop seeing him, you should get your info very quickly without having to spend a lot of cash. You could also plant a GPS tracker in her car then do an address search/county records and go from there, but the PI will probably get you more info and much faster.

I almost forgot, they work together, you could borrow a car from a friend or rent one for a day or two and watch her during lunch time or after work, take a picture of his license plate, and if you can follow him to his house.

Can we please stop with this recurring bullshit from male posters proclaiming what bad, negligent husbands they were, thus causing the wife to cheat. It gets nauseating.

Look, if you, OP, do any research on this initial trauma reaction by a BS, it is very, very common, in your traumatized, depleted state for you to start grasping at straws looking for any causal connection between yourself and your wife's cheating. BS do this for any number of reasons and the literature on this explains why.

You were an alright husband. Just look at your misplaced willingness to take some responsibility for her cheating. Assholes do not do that. They do not look within ( neither do folks with healthy self esteem).

I see this happening to so many BS and you can tell just by their writing that they are not insensitive, negligent types. These are articulate, kind, devoted people. Yet, consistently, I see them flagellating themselves.

Your wife is a sneaky, lying, manipulative POS, who, undoubtedly caused most of the problems in your marriage. Think someone capable of cheating, with all the attendant character flaws( lack of integrity, lack of empathy, poor communication skills, poor problem solving abilities,etc(( the list goes on )), just might,maybe, have been a less than ideal partner even before cheating?

I bet a year's salary that any objective analysis of your marriage would find she is the worse partner.

Like Stinger says... you need to change your thinking.

There are millions of married couples in the U.S.

All of them have disagreements. All married couples fight, then they talk, then lots of couple resolve their differences and go on.

Some couples can’t solve their differences. They divorce. Then a mourning period ensues, mourning the loss of the relationship. Then those individuals eventually date again.

Then some people, like your WW “cheat because the marriage is bad”. How on earth cheating will make a marriage better? Does it mean that if she cheats with 3 men, it will make your marriage extraordinary??? If the WS is unhappy, why not divorce?

Why? Because it’s bullshit. You WW wants to keep you around as the convenient husband at home while having a romantic unicorn and rainbows boyfriend on the side.

You WW will continue to date her BF, and is asking, I mean telling you to wait on the side while she is doing that.

This is unacceptable. What is in YOUR best interest? It’s to not have a 3rd party in your marriage.

You tell your WW this: “I love you very much, but I can’t be in a marriage where my wife CHOSES to have a boyfriend, CHOSES to hurt her husband AND children. You continue dating your boyfriend, and I’ll take steps to get out of infidelity, protect myself and our children.”. If she continues to argue about the bad marriage, refuse to talk to her as long as she has a BF. “I’m sorry you feel that way. I will not be discussing this while you are with a OM. I will only discuss matters that relates to the children”.

Then take half of the money in joint account, don’t do anything for her, you are no longer her husband, you are getting out of infidelity. Talk to a lawyer and start the D proceeding.

She also said she will not stop seeing this person and feels the support from him is justified given how bad our marriage has been.

Your new marriage - you, your wife, and her boyfriend.

You might want to object to that.

You are giving your cheating wife all the power in your marriage. I made the same mistake. I survived it for 6 months.

While I thought we were reconciling my H re-started the affair so I was unfortunately subjected to another dday. You know, the day you find out your spouse is cheating or continuing to cheat.

I suggest the following b/c this worked for me and restored all the power in my marriage. None of this will be done to end the affair— b/c that won’t happen unless your cheating wife decides to end it. But it will get you out of living with the infidelity being thrown in your face. So here goes.

1. 🛑 stop funding her affair. Stop paying her bills if you can. If you have joint credit cards - cancel them. Open up accounts in your name alone. Start separating your finances.

2. 🛑 stop putting your paycheck in a joint account. Open up your own account in your name alone. Start depositing your paycheck there.

3. Get copies of all financial records including her 401k retirement account , tax returns, insurance policies etc. and put them in a safe place. Just in case.

4. Consult with an attorney or two or five. Know your rights. Understand what D will look like.

5. Start hoarding $ just in case

6. Get an STD check just to be sure

7. She’s still seeing OM? then she’s putting your family in a serious health risk right now with Covid-19. Unfair and unacceptable. That must be addressed immediately.

8. You need to stop being afraid of her. She now needs to be afraid of you. She has control if the situation and is treating you like a doormat sad to say. Her affair will continue b/c she counts on you doing nothing or very little to exert your power.

9. Have a place for your wife to go whether it’s a family member or friend. You need to make that call in advance of the discussion.

Once your ducks are in a row - you do the 180. Read up on it in the healing library. Upper left corner here at SI. She won’t like it. But it’s about taking your power back. It’s nit about getting her to like the consequences.

And then there’s the conversation you need to have. You are calm. Rational. No yelling. No emotion. It’s more of a statement of facts b/c it’s basically a two minute event. She does not get a chance to speak b/c it’s swift and to the point.

You tell her the following: I’m sorry it has come to this but you have left me with no choice but to Divorce you. I cannot stay in a marriage while you continue to cheat and disrespect me. I suggest you find another place to live b/c you cannot continue to expose me & kids to Covid-19. And by continuing to have a sexual affair with the OM you are putting us in danger.

Then leave the room. It’s NOT a discussion. Tell her where she will he staying (see 9 Above). She may decide to want to “discuss” things. Do. Not. Engage. Discussion time is long gone. Trust me on this. She will try to engage you in her game of continued lies. Don’t allow it. She will “swear” it’s not a physical affair — Do not engage. You knows she’s lying. Find your strength and walk away without saying another word.

If her affair continues then you did the right thing b/c she was Not going to stop no matter what.

If she wises up and starts focusing on the marriage and immediately ends the Affair then you have a chance to reconcile.

Either way you are in the driver’s seat.

If she “decides” to get her act together, get a post nup to protect yourself. I demanded it to even consider reconciliation. Best thing I ever did. I financially protected myself. If she won’t sign it - you will see she’s not all in. Because if she were the post nup becomes moot if you are not Divorcing.

This is what worked for me. My H told me earlier in the day he wanted a D. I heard this for the third time in 2 weeks. He was blindsided however when I told him I knew he was still cheating and I was D him.

He suddenly had no control and no power over me or our relationship. And I was no longer playing his game. I wasn’t listening to a word he said. He lost all control.

Regret not doing it Sooner.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 3:56 AM, July 10th (Friday)]