Newest Member: SoBeyondLost17

I Can Relate :
BS Questions for WS - Part 14

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hikingout ( member #59504) posted at 3:10 AM on Thursday, September 23rd, 2021

It would have continued, I am 200 percent glad it didn’t but you are correct. However, I was not a good compartmentalizer and was already falling apart at the seems. My tendency to confess I believe would have still been compelled. I was very unhappy and blamed my marriage and this was an exit affair.

In the end I didn’t exit because I recognized that I wasn’t happy because I didn’t take responsibility for my own happiness or communicate. I had to re-evaluate my resentment. And in the end when I confessed it was because I wanted to see if the marriage could be saved after all. I would have understood if the answer had been no. Maybe not all perfectly but eventually because I became dedicated to looking at the darker sides of myself.

WW/BW BH/WH Turnthepage My Affair DDAY 9/1/2017- 2 month EA/PAHis Affair DDAY 10/10/2020 - 18 month A - EA?/PA

posts: 5922   ·   registered: Jul. 5th, 2017   ·   location: Arizona
id 8689823
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LostInHisFog ( member #78503) posted at 12:34 AM on Wednesday, October 27th, 2021

I’m trying to get WS point of view of sex (HB) close to Dday. I know how I felt during and after but what were you thinking/feeling? was it a ego boost, "BS & AP can’t resist me" type of mindset or was it "thank god, BS has forgiven me" or something else?? Was there shame? Hope?

I hope some WH reply

I edit because I'm fluent in typo & autocorrect hates me.

posts: 218   ·   registered: Mar. 14th, 2021
id 8695207
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foreverlabeled ( member #52070) posted at 5:09 PM on Thursday, October 28th, 2021

WW here..

I did not enjoy the HB in the slightest. I was mostly confused, incredibly consumed with his pain, and my thoughts raced a mile a minute the whole time. Plus there wasn't anything about it that felt like real sex.

I was confused because it was the last thing I expected. Of course at the time I didn't understand the psychology behind it and what it meant.

I was very aware of his pain, felt it in the very air I breathed, and I could have drowned in it. It was hard to be intimate with him knowing I was the reason for the pain, and yes shame consumed me as well.

My thoughts were all over the place. Is he thinking about AP, is he thinking about anything at all, how can he be enjoying this, he can't even look me in the eyes, is he doing this because he wants to or feels like he has to for some reason. I couldn't concentrate or be in the moment. So much was going on, between his pain and trauma and my own poor coping skills to handle the situation it was tough to feel sexy and into the sex.

33 divorced Madhatter
Time is no ones friend, nor their enemy. It moves forward at its own fixed pace, careless of our wants to speed it or slow it.

posts: 2535   ·   registered: Mar. 1st, 2016   ·   location: southeast
id 8695417
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Gottagetthrough ( member #27325) posted at 4:55 PM on Friday, October 29th, 2021

My wh had both a pa and and ea.

Ive asked a lot about the pa

But what about the ea? For those who have had and ea, Why did you do that to your spouse?

Is it the same selfish, entitled feeling? The "i deserve this ". Or is it something else.

posts: 3638   ·   registered: Jan. 22nd, 2010
id 8695715
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BraveSirRobin ( member #69242) posted at 6:24 PM on Friday, October 29th, 2021

For those who have had and ea, Why did you do that to your spouse?

That's the $25,000 question, and the answer is a jumble of different motivations. Attraction to the OM wouldn't have been enough on its own. The problems were in my own head -- fear of inadequacy, toxic role models, an above-average ability to compartmentalize my thought processes. The answer is different for everyone, but there's a common thread of emotionally medicating our bad feelings instead of dealing with them openly.

WW/BW 50s (Me)
BH/WH 50s (TimeSpiral)

posts: 2138   ·   registered: Dec. 27th, 2018
id 8695726
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Gottagetthrough ( member #27325) posted at 11:08 PM on Friday, October 29th, 2021

BraveSirRobin-

But why couldnt he emotionally medicate with ME. Why emotionally medicate w someone else?

It gets to me and makes me feel like its my personality

posts: 3638   ·   registered: Jan. 22nd, 2010
id 8695786
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BraveSirRobin ( member #69242) posted at 4:58 AM on Saturday, October 30th, 2021

But why couldnt he emotionally medicate with ME.

Again, everyone is different, so I can't speak for him, but fantasy is easier to medicate with than reality. That's why most WS/AP relationships implode if they make it past D-Day and into the real world. The A is an imaginary space where the other person thinks you fart rainbows and always takes your side. There's nothing intoxicating about figuring out how to pay the bills or get Timmy to do his homework.

It wouldn't be healthy for a BS to act like an AP. It's not healthy for anyone to act like an AP. Just ask the legions of disillusioned APs who tried to transition into the role of wife and found out they were only a drug.

WW/BW 50s (Me)
BH/WH 50s (TimeSpiral)

posts: 2138   ·   registered: Dec. 27th, 2018
id 8695816
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oldmewasmurdered ( new member #79473) posted at 9:33 PM on Sunday, October 31st, 2021

As a new BS this thread is incredibly hard to read and triggering xD

posts: 22   ·   registered: Oct. 12th, 2021   ·   location: Canada
id 8696016
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BraveSirRobin ( member #69242) posted at 3:27 AM on Monday, November 1st, 2021

I'm sorry for your pain, oldme. sad

This thread is the only window that some BS ever get into the wayward mindset, so although I try to be gentle here, I'm also honest. Authentic answers from a WS can indeed be triggering. It's one of the reasons we fight so hard to hide the truth from our spouses. Answering questions here serves a purpose from both sides, but that doesn't mean it's easy to write or to read.

WW/BW 50s (Me)
BH/WH 50s (TimeSpiral)

posts: 2138   ·   registered: Dec. 27th, 2018
id 8696054
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oldmewasmurdered ( new member #79473) posted at 4:43 AM on Monday, November 1st, 2021

@BraveSirRobin
No need to apologize. Being a BS I much prefer to know the truth even if it hurts (if only my ex-WF can see it that way...). I appreciate holding back no punches. It's definitely eye opening to read the WS thought process, helped answer a few questions I didn't get closure on. So thanks for your PSA service.

posts: 22   ·   registered: Oct. 12th, 2021   ·   location: Canada
id 8696066
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Legend10 ( new member #79407) posted at 12:11 PM on Monday, November 1st, 2021

Question here that is more for an AP than a WS but I suppose it could still apply to a WS too.

Did any of you have an affair with someone who had young children? One of the things I struggle with is the mentality of a WS / AP to enter into an affair with someone who not only has a wife / husband but there are young children involved too.

I was often told by my WW that the AP was a "good guy" and that she was the one who deserved the blame and not him but I just can't fathom how you could not only knowingly breakup a marriage but a family too.

How did you have it in you to proceed knowing this? Did you ever think that there would be an outcome where you would be a step-parent to the child / children? Did you ever discuss that with the mother / father of the children during the affair?

[This message edited by Legend10 at 12:12 PM, Monday, November 1st]

posts: 43   ·   registered: Sep. 16th, 2021
id 8696088
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LostInHisFog ( member #78503) posted at 2:35 PM on Monday, November 1st, 2021

Legend, BS here. I asked one of my WH APs that same question, in my case it was a marriage with a young sick child. I can’t get my head around how anyone would willingly home wreck a marriage with young kids too. Will never forget her sneer and outrage at me for confronting her about that. She said it was none of our (child and I) business that her relationship (yes called the affair a relationship, would not call it an affair even today when it’s been over for years, calls my STBXWH her ex-boyfriend) was for them only and nothing to do with my kid or me... shocked

Compartmentalised the fact her "boyfriend" was a married man with a young unwell kid probably so she could sleep at night, that or she couldn’t see past herself and just didn’t care.

Good question and will be waiting to see any wayward replies

[This message edited by LostInHisFog at 2:38 PM, Monday, November 1st]

I edit because I'm fluent in typo & autocorrect hates me.

posts: 218   ·   registered: Mar. 14th, 2021
id 8696104
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MrCleanSlate ( member #71893) posted at 5:01 AM on Friday, November 5th, 2021

Lostinhisfog

I’m trying to get WS point of view of sex (HB) close to Dday. I know how I felt during and after but what were you thinking/feeling? was it a ego boost, "BS & AP can’t resist me" type of mindset or was it "thank god, BS has forgiven me" or something else?? Was there shame? Hope?

Ok so I am 6 years out from D-Day, but I can tell you very distinctly that first time we had sex not long after D-day my first thought was shock. Yup. I was totally shocked that my BW would want to have sex with me. You know she insisted right after D-Day that we sleep together in the same bed. That was when we talked, well mostly I talked. But I digress. So I was shocked a few nights after D-Day when she initiated sex. I was not expecting her to want me. I had not idea HB was a thing.

I also recall the other thing I felt and thought- Shit, she still loves me after I betrayed her. Why? I don't deserve this.
It made me really want to live up to that love she showed me. It gave me hope. I ran with that hope. She chose the hard path.

That is my experience. I still thank my wife for taking that first step.

So to answer your question. It was hope. That is what drove me to try. Still does.


Real shame comes later.
There is no real forgiveness expected.
As the days pass I feel worse and worse about being a cheater for that year.

WH 52,my BW is 51
1 year PA, D-Day Oct 2015
Admitted all, but there is no 'clean slate'. In R and working it everyday
“To build may have to be the slow and laborious task of years. To destroy can be the thoughtless act of a single day

posts: 669   ·   registered: Oct. 21st, 2019   ·   location: Canada
id 8696882
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LostInHisFog ( member #78503) posted at 6:41 AM on Friday, November 5th, 2021

@MrCleanSlate - thank you so much for answering.

I've now separated, first step before D in my country, and full NC with WH so didn't want to ask him. Days after dday we went through a bought of HB, for me I was in shock and weirdly detached and I have no clue how I was managed to latch on like I did, but now I have a clearer mind I can't stop the inner monologue asking "what was he thinking/feeling that first time after dday? did it mean anything to him? or was I just fueling the ego??"

It's a very personal topic and I needed to hear a WH POV on it, so thank you for replying.

I edit because I'm fluent in typo & autocorrect hates me.

posts: 218   ·   registered: Mar. 14th, 2021
id 8696891
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Chaos ( member #61031) posted at 5:36 PM on Monday, November 8th, 2021

How long have you pined for your APs. Even if after DDay they made it clear they were done and chose their spouse/family.

BS-me/WH-4.5yrLTA Married 2+ decadesChildren (1 still at home)Multiple DDays w/same AP until I told OBSBrandishing a sword, channeling my inner Inigo Montoya and saying "Hello–My name is Chaos–You f***ed my husband-Prepare to Die!"

posts: 3326   ·   registered: Oct. 13th, 2017   ·   location: East coast
id 8697547
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GraceLoves ( member #78769) posted at 12:07 PM on Monday, November 15th, 2021

Thanks so all the WS answering these questions - I have been reading for weeks and it's been hard but helpful.


My questions are about the guilt and shame elements:

How did you deal with the guilt and shame once you realised the actual depths of devastation you had caused?

Did it make it hard to be around your BS to know you were the cause of their pain?

Did you feel hopeless at times that you could never "fix it"?

Did you try to rugsweep to avoid feeling bad?

I am conscious right now that my WH cheated on me because of the ego kibbles and self-esteem boost of his AP's flattery. She was obsessed and infatuated with him and no matter how many times he rejected her, she just kept begging. I am sure that felt lovely. What probably feels a lot LESS lovely is the fact that in MY eyes, he feels like a scumbag who ruined my life and isn't worthy of me.

I feel unsafe because of the above. Not necessarily that he will cheat again, but that he must just be sitting there thinking it was way more fun having an affair than being with me and dealing with all this crap he created.

BW - seperated since Nov 21
DDay 1 - Nov 20, LTA during LDR. DDay 2 - Feb 21, ONS with AP. WH will maintain we were separated
DDay 3 - June 21, discovered WH had exchanged closure emails with AP

posts: 130   ·   registered: May. 9th, 2021   ·   location: London
id 8698500
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MIgander ( member #71285) posted at 3:18 PM on Monday, November 15th, 2021

Hi Grace,

That was so me! Hating myself, needing external validation and feeling SO MUCH SHAME. I didn't try and rug sweep though- I knew it wouldn't happen and that I deserved what I was getting from BH.

It was like this: I would act to the best of my ability exactly like I thought BH would want me to act. He would validate me by dropping his walls a bit. I would screw up on something- small or large and then the walls would go right back up. External validation from him would dry up and I'd be left a hopeless wreck. Thinking I could never be good enough for him, I could never fix it, I would always screw up again, so why try.

Your WH has a hole in him that no one else (and nothing else) but he can fill. In my case it was a better relationship with God and from there, myself. He has to seek out where his hole is, find what is in it, and learn to heal himself. Is he in IC? Everyone's hole is different and we naturally don't like going to that dark place on our own. Until he realizes that, starts understanding himself and his wants out of life, he will continue to drift and look for the next source of supply. Ask me how I know...

There's no amount of validation you could give him that would take his shame away. He has to work to convert his shame to guilt. See that HE is not a POS, he ACTED like a POS and has the ability to change his actions. Shame creeps in when we have guilt but do nothing about it and do nothing to fix the damage we did.

There's no way I will ever be able to erase the pain and damage I've done. I hope to keep living my life showing my BH the love he deserves and the gratitude I have for his grace in holding on so far. Until your BH can get to that point, I don't think things will improve.

Oh yeah, and despite my best efforts, I still screw up and we still don't see eye to eye all the time, but that is a normal thing in any relationship laugh

posts: 205   ·   registered: Aug. 15th, 2019   ·   location: Michigan
id 8698524
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GraceLoves ( member #78769) posted at 5:03 PM on Monday, November 15th, 2021

Thank you MIgander!


It was like this: I would act to the best of my ability exactly like I thought BH would want me to act. He would validate me by dropping his walls a bit. I would screw up on something- small or large and then the walls would go right back up. External validation from him would dry up and I'd be left a hopeless wreck. Thinking I could never be good enough for him, I could never fix it, I would always screw up again, so why try.

This is EXACTLY it :(

Your WH has a hole in him that no one else (and nothing else) but he can fill. In my case it was a better relationship with God and from there, myself. He has to seek out where his hole is, find what is in it, and learn to heal himself. Is he in IC? Everyone's hole is different and we naturally don't like going to that dark place on our own. Until he realizes that, starts understanding himself and his wants out of life, he will continue to drift and look for the next source of supply. Ask me how I know...

This is band on the money too - he is not in IC and it will probably be a few months until he gets to a place of even being willing. Can I ask how long it took for you to get to a place where you wanted to heal for yourself?

BW - seperated since Nov 21
DDay 1 - Nov 20, LTA during LDR. DDay 2 - Feb 21, ONS with AP. WH will maintain we were separated
DDay 3 - June 21, discovered WH had exchanged closure emails with AP

posts: 130   ·   registered: May. 9th, 2021   ·   location: London
id 8698540
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NotMyFirstRodeo ( member #75220) posted at 5:16 PM on Monday, November 15th, 2021

It's been said how a WS "loved the BS even though what they did was not loving" countless times. But what about those WS who felt less than love for their BS?

What role did any resentment you had for your BS play in your choices to betray them? How long did you have the resentment before acting out?Despite your choices and the trauma it caused, did you maintain any resentment for your BS after DD?

Did you basically dislike your spouse or want to hurt them? Did that play a role in your willingness to do what would hurt them (AKA: "they deserved it", etc.)?

I'm not speaking of any short-term or acute rewriting of history which was created to rationalize your actions as a consequence of your betrayal. I'm talking about resentment that was present before any idea, fantasizing of or opportunity for A came into existence.

[This message edited by NotMyFirstRodeo at 5:17 PM, Monday, November 15th]

Every lie we tell incurs a debt to the truth. Sooner or later that debt is paid.

posts: 258   ·   registered: Aug. 19th, 2020
id 8698543
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MIgander ( member #71285) posted at 6:30 PM on Monday, November 15th, 2021

Hi Grace,

It took me only a couple of months after Dday for me to get in IC. I was suffering deep depression and anxiety before my affair for years, and I've been struggling with depression off and on all my life. I'm not unfamiliar with the benefits of IC, so it didn't take me long to get in a rhythm with it.

I did resist IC for years during our marital struggles after my post-partum was nominally dealt with. My BH refused to do MC or retreats or anything with me, even when I begged him to. His reasoning was that I was the "crazy one" and therefore the source of our struggles. My thought was, "If he's not going to be bothered with our marriage, why should I bother about fixing myself? He's as much a problem as I am." I found it very degrading and dismissive that I would be the one to blame for everything in our marriage. It was at that point that I decided to check out and focus on my job instead. Occasionally I would try again to get us help, but it was refused.

It really took me seeing my husband actively reaching out for counseling for us before I actually thought he cared about me and our marriage. It was then that I began entertaining the idea of making the marriage work. It took until after my suicidality that fall to really make any traction on wanting to save myself.

Unfortunately, BH started with MC with me and did a few IC sessions and again determined (correctly for me) that I was the one with the most problems. He again thought he was fine (incorrect for him) and didn't need it. So again, he stopped. He continued his reactivity and frankly abusive behavior during his anger and triggers and refused to work on it- again blaming me (I did the damage, but he needed help managing his emotions- I couldn't do that for him). I called a lawyer and drew up a D doc (didn't serve him) and told him he was either getting into IC or I was going to D him. He started IC and it's been a godsend for us.

Men really are different creatures though, not to stereotype. He may have been raised not to express his emotions or even admit to having them. This has been a struggle my BH has had over the past year he's done IC. I'm not sure what your WH's resistance is, but likely it's trouble with vulnerability and accountability (which my BH struggled with). Keep asking him to seek help. If it comes to a point where he's abusive to himself or the family though, you may have to consider drawing a boundary like I did. "XYZ is going to happen unless you get in IC. I do not wish to live with ABC behavior of yours any more."

Good luck, and sorry you're here.

posts: 205   ·   registered: Aug. 15th, 2019   ·   location: Michigan
id 8698553
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