SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

ChamomileTea also said

"because in the real world there are LOTS of people who have recovered and are doing fine."

AH is doing just fine good enough for you?

I have the same question, including for myself. Fine is not good enough for me in the wake of my WW's adultery. The bar is set much higher, but that's just my personal take.

Yes they do and there are consequences for transgressions they know are against the basic moral law.

So, what you're saying essentially is that NO ONE should reconcile because... consequences.

That's fine for you, and it's fine for others who make that choice, but certainly I wouldn't tolerate criticism over the choice I made in my own situation, nor should anyone else. Your opinion about the potential for recovery after an infidelity is just that... your opinion, and the facts are against you because people can and do fully recover.

Honestly, I think what's bugging some of you guys is that you can't allow for differences, that some people just don't see it the way you do, and maybe AHGuy's WW won't get kicked to the curb in the way you think she should. The attacks on this woman have been unrelenting and persistent enough that we're already in a third thread. But she's not essentially different than any other garden-variety cheater. There's NOTHING about this WW which suggests she's incapable of R. There's nothing about AHGuy which would suggest that he is incapable of R. It's HIS CHOICE. Maybe you think that R isn't possible for anybody just because it didn't work for you, but if that's the case, you are vastly mistaken. It happens every day, all over the world.

Mrs C Tea, i lift up my cup of Twining's english breakfast tea

and say this toast: salute.

So, what you're saying essentially is that NO ONE should reconcile because... consequences.

No, now come on. That isn't what I said. The consequence I was referring to is that he maintains a healthy skepticism about her level of remorse.

He's obviously struggling with that and articulated it. I don't think he should feel guilty about his doubts. She's shown some inklings of some level of remorse, but she's got a long way to go.

Disgust, anger, suspicion and trauma are the normal fallout from infidelity. They are a part of the panoply of what Jonathan Haidt's research has turned up as healthy moral emotions.

Suspicion is a consequence of shattered trust. One she will need to learn to live with at least for awhile. My point was that AHGuy should be rightfully skeptical to this very day.

[This message edited by Thumos at 4:59 PM, October 23rd (Friday)]

AH

Just my two cents - in my experience contempt is not a reversible dynamic even though infidelity is. Clearly thats not A universal opinion

Everything else being said , if you post in R instead of JFO most people will stop passing comments on your wives shortcomings and its worth considering if it bothers you .

I might skew toward the skeptical side of life, but it is astounding to me how many WS' "love" for their BS returns the moment they are caught. Doubly so for those whose AP kicks them to the curb some period of time after discovery.

That's not to say that however you define love cannot return at some point, but the chances of that sort of immediacy seem very...unicorn.

I might skew toward the skeptical side of life, but it is astounding to me how many WS' "love" for their BS returns the moment they are caught. Doubly so for those whose AP kicks them to the curb some period of time after discovery.

That's not to say that however you define love cannot return at some point, but the chances of that sort of immediacy seem very...unicorn.

I find this to be a pragmatic attitude, and all but essential for a BS to contemplate in the wake of betrayal. Thanks for saying it.

AH

Just my two cents - in my experience contempt is not a reversible dynamic even though infidelity is. Clearly thats not A universal opinion

Everything else being said , if you post in R instead of JFO most people will stop passing comments on your wives shortcomings and its worth considering if it bothers you .

Sriracha, Thank you for bringing this up, first of all , it never bothered me when people here scold my wife or even when they scold me. I actually appreciate everyone's opinion and perspective. speaking of that, I didn't realize that only BSs were allowed to comment in here till it was brought to my attention by some members via Private messages. maybe I should move this thread to General, I don't think Reconciliation forum is appropriate for my case either.

Update:

Saturday was the day I got to ask her all the questions lot of you were pushing me to ask. She spent almost the whole day at our home. I had to take care of some business in the morning I came back at noon she was there already. She knew I like to watch UFC fights so she ordered the PPV and lot of food. we watched it with our sons then spent about 5 hours just the 2 of us. and we talked about everything. Idon't have the time nor the memory to type the whole 5 hours conversation but I can tell you some of the major points:

1- According to her She didn't have any other Affair, when she used to go out with her friend she would be approached by some guys but never allowed any of them to touch her.

2- she is willing to take a polygraph to prove that she didn't plan an exit after our sons are out the house to be with OM, she admitted telling him that as a response to his advancement. she said she was lying to him too.

3- She admitted that she developed "feelings" for him, but it wasn't love. Her therapist explained to her that way. her therapist also believe that she has a weak personality and her " Pleasing everyone" attitude is stronger toward strangers that her own family. therapist believes that mentality made her submit to her AP.

4- The Gym guy wasn't fired because of her, it was more of the last warning he was getting. he had other women complaining about "his flirting ways" and her complain was the last straw. She dismissed the idea of running to the OM versus coming to me. she didn'y tell anyone because it wasn't worth it and The OM knew about it 6 months later after it came in a random conversation about personal trainers.

5-the OM payed for her lasik surgery, I demanded she give that money back to the OBS. I know they don't needed the money, neither do we.

6- she is willing to give me the time I need. do polygraph,

So how do you feel about this? Your description seem rather clinical, like a dentist note.

A Monetary reward for dishonorable sexual behavior should be called what it is , its prostitution.

Speaking for myself i could marry a commercial sex worker if they had other exceptionally good qualities . However if someone became a prostitute 20 years into my marriage through their own weakness, need to have nicer things and need to please others by whatever means necessary- that would be the end for us

That all being said you haven't ever mentioned her good qualities so perhaps you are getting a lot of responder bias here. What do you like about her exactly ? What is keeping you in this marriage ? Do you think she loves you ? Why does your brother want you to date other people ? If you can fill in the blanks you will certainly get more informed responses

Saturday was the day I got to ask her all the questions lot of you were pushing me to ask. She spent almost the whole day at our home. I had to take care of some business in the morning I came back at noon she was there already. She knew I like to watch UFC fights so she ordered the PPV and lot of food. we watched it with our sons then spent about 5 hours just the 2 of us. and we talked about everything. Idon't have the time nor the memory to type the whole 5 hours conversation but I can tell you some of the major points:

Did anything physical happen during that 5 hours?

1- According to her She didn't have any other Affair, when she used to go out with her friend she would be approached by some guys but never allowed any of them to touch her.

I know you get a ton of replies so it is hard to keep track of. Remember as I wrote above "affair" is a term that cheaters tend to slice technically so they can omit other offense behavior. For that matter, "cheating" and "Inappropriate" are also vague enough to work around in a cheater's mind.

To get these answers, you usually have to make a laundry list of actions and check them off.

Having said that, maybe what she said to you is true, maybe not. I wouldn't just take her word for it considering her track record. Honestly I would assume she is lying.

2- she is willing to take a polygraph to prove that she didn't plan an exit after our sons are out the house to be with OM, she admitted telling him that as a response to his advancement. she said she was lying to him too.

Polygraphs don't really work like that. You basically have to ask questions against specific actions.

However, maybe your wife doesn't know that! So ask away, and maybe she'll trickle out more truth in the leadup to the polygraph...

3- She admitted that she developed "feelings" for him, but it wasn't love. Her therapist explained to her that way. her therapist also believe that she has a weak personality and her " Pleasing everyone" attitude is stronger toward strangers that her own family. therapist believes that mentality made her submit to her AP.

You ever heard the term "mansplaining"? Well, I'm coining a new term: "Therasplaining".

Beware of these explanations. They are camouflaged as your wife's "whys" for having violated every boundary and cheating on you, but they are really for you to "understand" her actions.

Ask yourself: Do these explanations really even matter? In the end, she was married to you and was fucking another guy for years. As long as her cheating wasn't under threat of some kind of harm, what it really boils down to is "Because she wanted to do it."

4- The Gym guy wasn't fired because of her, it was more of the last warning he was getting. he had other women complaining about "his flirting ways" and her complain was the last straw. She dismissed the idea of running to the OM versus coming to me. she didn'y tell anyone because it wasn't worth it and The OM knew about it 6 months later after it came in a random conversation about personal trainers.

Seriously? The main point here is she wasn't having these types of conversations with you.

5-the OM payed for her lasik surgery, I demanded she give that money back to the OBS. I know they don't needed the money, neither do we.

Good.

6- she is willing to give me the time I need. do polygraph,

My advice: Prior to the polygraph, many many very specific and detailed questions.

[This message edited by faithfulman at 11:02 AM, October 26th (Monday)]

AHguy

How do you feel about her answers? In general does the whole explanation make sence?

I am asking because no Matter what other think, It has to make sence to you, and you only!

Being said that, IMO she is minimaizing the feelings for OM. I am sorry but her first email, has nothing to do with tha last texto she sent. And she broke NC that even your Daugther was mad at her. She may even believe what she is saying now, and It is OK as long as you dont have issues with that.

If pleasing everyone around her is more of a priority for her than her family, maybe that is part of her underlying software?

You know, like her worldview, her inner monologue, her neuroses?

So then maybe the hardware isn’t safe as a life partner?

I don’t know, could be, your mileage may vary.

Honestly though this sounds like a therapist who is white knighting and providing some version of the “little lost girl in the woods” narrative we are pretty familiar with here.

It is actually a disservice to women because it treats them like children instead of autonomous adults fully capable of making moral decisions.

[This message edited by Thumos at 11:27 AM, October 26th (Monday)]

My advice: Prior to the polygraph, many many very specific and detailed questions.

I totally agree with this, now follow through with the poly, it's not uncommon for WSs to agree to the poly in an effort to make the BS think they're now telling the truth, remember she's a proven cheater and liar, ask all the questions you want then have her take the poly, make sure you chose the examiner, refer to online reviews to make sure you pick an experienced one.

My advice: Prior to the polygraph, many many very specific and detailed questions.

I totally agree with this, now follow through with the poly, it's not uncommon for WSs to agree to the poly in an effort to make the BS think they're now telling the truth, remember she's a proven cheater and liar, ask all the questions you want then have her take the poly, make sure you chose the examiner, refer to online reviews to make sure you pick an experienced one.

You only get to ask maybe 4-5 questions but typically WSs don't know that, moreover they don't know for certain which ones will come up in the polygraph test.

AHGuy. I hope you find she’s willing to do anything to make amends and she does. If she’s out of the affair fog then maybe there is a chance she is making positive changes.

Her actions will tell you more than her words. But I’m sure you already know that.

Sounds like a positive update Hopefully you will be able to move forward with the offers of the polygraph so to be in a much better place. Good luck

One day at a time.

I’ve come out of retirement from posting for awhile. My situation ended in ‘08. We have stayed together since then.

But......there is that niggling thought in the back of your mind,

Where is he? What’s he doing?, when I know full well where he is. Is the trust there? Sort if, but not what it used to be.

Sometimes I wonder, if I had divorced him, if I would have been better off, emotionally. Oh, he’s real good to me, I want for nothing. If I mention that I saw something online, Amazon is dropping it on my porch, next day. I didn’t want to remarry, I just wanted peace. I seem to have it now. I’m 70 now and resolved to my decision. I hope you can get her adulterous

behavior out of your head! It does stay for years. I do love him dearly. But I will never forget what he did. And you won’t, either. Good Luck! It’s a decision you have to live with, but one she wants desperately.

I know now for sure what an emotional roller coaster is, and it sucks. I went form 100 to 0 just like that. For a while I was thinking I was different than a typical BS based on what I've read here. I didn't experience many of the stages described here in your stories. even the other day for example, I had to go to one of the OM's owned property because of warranty issue for an equipment I installed for him a year ago, normally this should've been a bad trigger but I just didn't feel a thing, like a wall with no emotions. I thought I reached acceptance and was ready to move on to either direction knowing I would be fine. I was able to show no emotion to what had happen recently. like talking to her the other day I was more like an investigator than a hurt man whose wife had an affair. However The last 2 days it all went back to 0. Now I feel like I'm lying to myself, maybe deep inside me I know I should've just left on DDay. maybe I should just admit to myself the reasons why I haven't left are my many fears. to add to all of it my wife told me that she is stopping her "secular" IC after a only few sessions and she is content with her pastor for now till she finds a different one. the reason is that her therapist doesn't agree with our ways of doing things, She told her submitting to my demands to R at this moment without working on our marriages issue prior to her A would be an abuse to her. she advised her to not work on R and focus on herself instead. maybe this had something to do with my mood swings.

Dear SI friends, I want to thank all of you for your support, I know I have been so indecisive but that doesn't mean I'm ignoring your valuable advice. I will take a time to answer some of the questions you asked after my last update but it won't be today if you would excuse me.

If I'm reading your latest post correctly, your WW left the secular IC because she was encouraging bad advice and trying to get your wife to go about R the wrong way, or basically not at all.

I'm glad that it seems like your wife rejected the ill-fated idea that doing R in a healthy way was "abusive" toward her.

If so, that seems like relatively good news. There's a lot of bad advice out there, and a lot of really bad counselors who are just flawed human beings with their own baggage.

So it's good news that your wife acknowledged this and ditched the counselor, right?

The bad news, as you indicate, is that your WW hasn't done anything to find another IC and is signaling she won't.

The pastor won't be enough.

Can I recommend one more time that you locate a couple of betrayal trauma specialists that work together in your geographic region. This specialty is the BEST for dealing with infidelity.

One IC for you; one IC for her. Each individual counselor can work somewhat in tandem with the other and THEN when the time is right they can recommend couples/marital counseling.

They will hold her feet to the fire in the right way and shepherd additional disclosure. Often (though not always) they will also manage an additional detailed timeline, a polygraph, and what I would term a sort of "victim impact" process that allows you to share in a very detailed way how this has impacted you. Then they will move you both toward couples counseling.

I did this with my WW. It short circuited for a couple of reasons and we never got to the "victim impact" process or the couples counseling. Mainly because my WW failed her polygraph and also how my WW disrespected and needlessly prolonged that part of the process.

But that's no reason for you not to TRY, AHGuy.

It sounds like you are experiencing some version of mini-cycles of the plain of lethal flatness then mixed in with your primary moral emotions reasserting themselves. This cycle will continue if you don't start REALLY processing your feelings. Like many men, you are finding this hard. I know. I'm there with you. But you have to acknowledge what you are feeling and allow yourself to feel it.

Can I ask in your next update: Did your WW understand how triggering it would be for you to have to deal with OM's property and the warranty issue? Did she acknowledge it? It sounds like you basically lied to yourself "Feeling nothing" about this episode and then your authentic feelings had their say regardless of you trying to force them down.

You can't do that. Well, you can. But you understand now a bit more about how this works and how it takes you to 'zero' if you try to jam these feelings in a box and try to lock it.

Doesn't work.

[This message edited by Thumos at 9:23 AM, October 30th (Friday)]