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Hello Anxioushusband, sorry you are here, you have been served a shit sandwich where no self respecting human wants to eat!

Lets take what you posted and break it down:

Anxioushusband:

I have an anxious attachment style which has led me to be controlling and jealous and possessive of my wife. I have always been threatened in some way by her more outgoing personality, her easy relationships with many friends and her sexual energy that makes her so attractive. (She has many great qualities and I still love her).

You need to explain this a little bit more, you see most normal married couple will not allow their spouse to flirt with the opposite sex, that has nothing to do of being jealous or possessive!

The word jealous, possessive, and controlling has been widely used incorrectly as a scare tactic and blackmailing in an effort to cuckold the husband!

Get this: A man without jealousy is a cuckold!

Don't listen to the moral bankrupt damaged people!

And people who use the word jealousy as a weapon to scare their spouses off are the same people with low or no moral values, the same people who will cheat or flirt with others and want their spouses to accept that and rub it on their faces, and your wayward wife (WW) is one of them!

I DARE any women to say to her Alpha male spouse that he is jealous to try and make him accept her flirting with other men, they will never dare do it because they know what will happen!

Anxioushusband:

as an anxious type I tend to obsess over the details of my wife’s private life.

When you get married there are no such thing as secrets between the spouses and no such thing as a separate private lives!

You seem to have a wrong understanding of what marriages is, and what it's about, am I correct?!

I do have some fantasies about my wife with other men but we have never experimented sexually with swinging or thirds

Having fantasies is fine, we all do!

But making these fantasies guide you in making decisions is the problem, be careful!

Anxioushusband:

In fact, she now says she wants to continue seeing this guy and open up the marriage, meaning she could date this man , potentially fall in love and still be married to me and ina romantic and sexual relationship with me.

Let me ask, is the marriage open both ways and you are allowed to see other women?!

Or are you going to be the chump who will stay at home babysitting while she gets screwed by other men?!

Breaking news: this will not work!

And even if you are allowed to see other women, open marriages doesn't work very well for the male spouses, unless you are Brad Pit and can hookup with any women you desire, she will have unlimited access to men while you will struggle to find just one!

Picture this: Your wife (with or without a ring) goes into a bar, today, what are the chances she can pick up a random hot man and have sex?

What are the chances for you to do the same ?!

You get the picture!

Even if you want to go with this nonsense, and against your values, it will be a bad deal anyway! It's always a bad deal for male spouses in open marriages, that's why it rarely works, and divorce is usually the final outcome at the end, the successful % is extremely low for open marriages and THAT'S after proper discussions, rules and boundaries were set and NO cheating has happened and the trust is maintained throughout the relationship, so you can imagine your situation where your wayward wife (WW) has cheated and broken your trust completely!

So you lose your self respect and values just to get a divorce in the end!

If you think she will still have a romantic and sexual relationship with you as you said while the marriage is open then you are completely wrong, and living in a completely different plant!

If she tells you that, she is lying to you with a straight face!

And after her betrayal do you believe any thing she says?!

Again: It will not work!

Why: Because you have no true desire for an open marriage, and it was not something you both discussed or planed before, this arrangement was never previously discussed, no boundaries or rules were set, she maid that decision herself, and robbed you from your chose and agency, and you are being dragged like a helpless sheep to the slaughter house, she did that because simply she has no respect or love for you, she doesn't value you or her marriage!

Add to the top of all that: She cheated on you for over a year!

You have no marriage, it's just something written on paper now!

Anxioushusband:

I have no desire for an open marriage, but I am considering going along with her wishes to keep my family together (we have one young child) and because I hope it may bring us a level of intimacy and understanding we have never had before.

This women you married, not just cheated on you for over a year, but now she want's to strip you from your values, she is trying to strip you from your dignity, self respect, pride and honor!

If you allow this to happen, and you stay with this women, you will be traumatized beyond any thing you ever witnessed or experienced, you will be damaged, and you will be no good even for normal friendship with other people!

There is no reason to strip yourself from all your values because you want to keep your family together

Since when does keeping the family together, or the love you have for your cheating wife is a reason to compromise on your core values and turn yourself into a willing cuckold?!

I promise you this: If you agree to this nonsense she will know that you have no self respect, dignity or pride left in you, and any little respect she has for you will be completely gone! And she will treat you like trash and even worse for the rest of your life, women do not respect the weak!

Look, you did not deserve to be cheated on!

Don't be a cowered and stand up for your values and rights as a husband, no human being has the right to take away your dignity and pride, or for you to strip out your values for anyone!

You do not deserve this!

Refuse her filthy offer and start detaching from her today, get away from her, and move on with your life!

I repeat: open marriages even if it's done properly with trust, rules, boundaries, no cheating and understanding between the spouses rarely works, your chances of success is zero after what she did to you and how she requested it, it's bad and a failed deal, do not even waste your brain cells contemplating the idea, the result is already known!

Tell her you don't want her anymore, she has been used for over a year by other men, she is damaged goods, divorce her cheating ass and move on, she doesn't deserve you!

Value yourself, don't deny yourself happiness, she is not the only women out there!

Leave her and what ever you lose you will build again, and your kid will be just fine, you can co-parent and be the best dad ever, you will be a happy and in peace with yourself, your kid will love you, and when they grows up, they will be extremely proud of you and lookup to you!

Stand up, have strength, and get out of this with your dignity, self respect, honor and pride intact!

[This message edited by Kaliber at 11:29 AM, October 26th (Monday)]

This is just my opinion as an open marriage does not appeal to me but it seems as though the time to discuss opening the marriage would be before any type of infidelity occurs.

Sorry to hear what you are going through . You should just keep your focus on yourself ;mentally physically emotionally you need to get stronger to face this awful event in your life

Your wife is a bad partner she may well have good traits too but unless she changes into another person ( v unlikely) you only have two choices : you can either move on in an active way or get dragged behind the truck of her unrepentant infidelity .

Its not fair and not logical but often a damaged person thinks the partner is not enough for them. Also if she isnt a monogamy person then no one person can be enough for her . She was wrong to cheat regardless

Just my two cents for your next relationship - spend some time in therapy now to unlearn patterns . Jealousy and controlling behavior is not a pattern you want to carry into the future . To be clear do not blame yourself for this entirely unjustified trauma.She cheated because she is a cheater , if you were the problem she could simply have divorced you .

The healing library has alot of thoughtful material you may want to look over

[This message edited by siracha at 7:53 AM, October 26th (Monday)]

Open marriage proposed by WW?

Automatic response;

Step 1: Open the door of the house

Step 2: Give Wayward Wife (WW) divorce papers

Step 3: Kick WW out of the house and your life

Step 4: Build a new and better life for yourself and your child

Man, the topic is not even the open marriage the topic is your abusive cheating wife, RUN!

Siracha

Jealousy and controlling behavior is not a pattern you want to carry into the future .

Not getting into controlling behavior is something I agree with. But can you explain what is wrong with jealousy?

West way

I meant Inappropriate or exaggerated jealousy . I think thats what the Op meant

[This message edited by siracha at 9:43 AM, October 26th (Monday)]

Non-monogamy is an arrangement we have never previously discussed. However my wife claims that this is just who she is - after starting the first affair she realized this about herself, that she is not a monogamous person and wants a polyamorous lifestyle. She says she couldn’t tell me because I wouldn’t understand her feelings or tolerate how she wants to live her life.

Oooh almost exactly what my xwh said when he decided to fall in love with and fuck an 18 yo girl... Cheaters are so predictable. Read enough around SI and you will see your story played out over and over again. If she was poly, then she should have shared that with you from the beginning. I know enough to know that people who are truly invested in a poly lifestyle are also invested in being radically honest with themselves and with any potential partners. Your ww is not honest at all, which leads me to the same conclusion I reached in my situation - 'poly' for her is just her trying to put a fancy name and reasonable excuse on being a lying manipulative cheater.

Listen, when this happened to me, I did exactly what you're doing. I researched poly. I thought about 'opening' my marriage. But the bottom line for me was this: that wasn't what I wanted, it wasn't what I agreed to when I married him, and it was not a lifestyle I was ever going to be comfortable with pursuing, period. AND THAT DIDN'T (and doesn't) MAKE ME 'BORING' OR 'OLD-FASHIONED'. I am a monogamous person. He didn't want to be. And for me, there was just no reconciling those two views.

If you do not want an open marriage, then you are under zero obligation to bend your values to fit her bullshit.

And this:

I have no desire for an open marriage, but I am considering going along with her wishes to keep my family together (we have one young child) and because I hope it may bring us a level of intimacy and understanding we have never had before.

Opening your marriage when you don't want to to "bring a level of intimacy and understanding" IMHO is like saying "I will fight this fire by dumping this gasoline and pile of old newspapers on it." Intimacy and understanding come from trust, respect, and honesty. Your ww is giving you none of those.

You have a very clear path here that is not overly complicated - as others have suggested:

1. Detach. Hard 180. No physical contact.

Discuss business and child care only.

2. Get tested for STDs

3. File for divorce immediately.

4. Tell her family exactly why.

5. Tell the other betrayed spouses if you can find them.

6. Ask her to move out to be with her fuck buddy (ies)

7. Read No More Mr. Nice Guy to deprogram yourself from the cult of pedestal goddess worship.

This is not a situation that suggests dithering or coddling or taking someone back. Rather she is exposing your children to harmful patterns, bad modeling and potentially dangerous scenarios.

Take back control of the narrative.

She’s lost. She’s gone into self destructive Looking for Mr. Goodbar mode and there’s rarely a way back for a woman like this. She’s gotten a taste for promiscuity, likes it and is now a serial cheater.

One instance of infidelity is exceedingly difficult to come back from and takes years of work. Multiple instances, serial cheater, the polyamory miasma. Those are things you do not want to get dragged into lest you be sullied by her.

She is on the path to wreck and ruin.

Don’t follow her.

You have received some good advice.

Even if she agrees to a two-way open marriage it will not be equal. A woman giving away no strings attached sex will have many more takers than a man doing the same thing.

I think it’s clear that your wife is who she is. There is no way she can remain faithful in the future. She just enjoys the lifestyle too much and fundamentally sees nothing wrong with it.

You said you had a young child. Do a DNA test. You can get a kit at almost any drugstore. You can also order them online. All you do is swab the inside of your cheek and the kids and send the kid off to a lab. It sounds like the kid is young enough that they won’t even know what you’re doing.

[This message edited by Michigan at 10:10 AM, October 26th (Monday)]

Hello, Anxioushusband. Welcome to SI.

Take some time to read the two threads pinned to the top of the JFO Forum: "The Tactical Primer" and "Newbies, important information..."

When you're ready, check out The Healing Library (see link in yellow shaded area at the top left of the page). Inside you'll find a wealth of information to help you get started on your road to recovery and healing.

Am I crazy for even contemplating this?

I don't know enough about you to definitively say that you're crazy. What I do know is the betrayal of infidelity is a profound shock and most of us need a while (a very long while) to recover from the shock.

As gently as I can say this, brother, you seem rather desperate to "keep" your wife. That's far from uncommon, btw. Plenty of betrayed spouses have made the mistake of trying to save their marriage by sacrificing their own happiness. We refer to it as the "pick me dance," which only leads to further pain and anguish (and abuse).

I have no desire for an open marriage...

Nor do most folks. I have no desire for an open marriage. I don't recommend an open marriage to anyone. I think it's an oxymoron.

...my wife claims that this is just who she is...

Well. There you go. This is who she is. Now, you have to decide for yourself if this is the sort of woman you want as a wife.

It's not what I would want.

[This message edited by Unhinged at 10:13 AM, October 26th (Monday)]

There’s nothing inherently wrong with people having multiple partners if every one is on board. But she cheated and lied and never gave me a chance to come around to the idea of a non monogamous marriage before she started having affairs.

Quit trying to talk yourself into something that fills you with revulsion and that you find naturally repellent.

How many successful open marriages do you think there are? Really? There’s always a power differential.

EDIT TO ADD: estimates are from 1 to 4 percent of marriages are “open.” Probably closer to 1 percent.

What are the odds you’ll be able to succeed where 99 percent of married people do not tread?

A couple of therapists have described attempts at open marriage like “laying ground rules for an earthquake.”

Unfortunately you married a toxic person.

She’s also an abuser and a taker. You are being mentally and physically abused.

There is nothing wrong with you. Stand on firm ground. Leave this horrid woman and go find a woman who is filled with honor instead.

[This message edited by Thumos at 10:27 AM, October 26th (Monday)]

Healthy open marriages start out with complete honesty and the rules are clear to both parties . Both parties have to see this is as a fulfilling lifestyle and it takes a lot more maturity and connection than regular monogamy

Many people including very promiscuous men and women would not want to be in an open marriage

I wouldn't be angry at the wrong thing here - if she wants to be in an open marriage with some consenting dude in the future thats her decision, its the cheating part thats reprehensible.

EXPOSE her As with All family and close friends without warning, file for D and have her served (D can be stopped if she comes around), if D papers and full exposure don't shock her back to reality, then nothing will, if so just let D run its course and get out of infidelity. Don't forget to get tested for STDs (some can be transmitted via saliva), yes she's been playing russian roulette with your health by exposing you to Covid19 and potentially life threatening STDs.

Intimacy and understanding come from trust, respect, and honesty. Your ww is giving you none of those.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Open marriages are for healthy couples in stable fully actualized relationships with firm boundaries. You currently don’t fit any of the prerequisites.

You talk about your “anxious attachment style”. This too is not conducive to an open marriage.

I have to ask you, could your anxious attachment style have evolved because of your WW’s loose boundaries and/or a predisposing personality that could be prone to cheating? Was it your gut instincts warning you that danger was nigh? Could she have been cheating off and on for the last 11-years and you were intuitively aware of it or suspected it at a subliminal or gut instinctive level? Could this be why you have had anxiety in this relationship.

Is this the kind of relationship you REALLY want? Or, are you merely adapting to a shitty situation forced upon you in a desperate attempt to preserve what’s left of your marriage? Is there really anything left of your marriage?

Your anxiety over losing your WW will compromise you. Will make you vulnerable to manipulation, self defeating compromises and psychological abuse and emotional neglect.

This is the moment where you need to take pause and some serious soul searching about what you truly want. Listen VERY closely and seriously process all the excellent commentary you’re receiving from the collective wisdom and experience amassed here.

Anxious

When she talked about an open marriage was it a suggestion, negotiation, a demand or an ultimatum?

If you refuse then what’s her plan?

It’s clear that if she says yes and carried on and you say no then that will require definite action on your half.

What's the next step if you say no? Will she accept that?

Open marriages come with boundaries and complete honesty. Asking for one after being caught in an affair is 100% bullshit and trying to get retroactive permission to cheat.

siracha

West way

I meant Inappropriate or exaggerated jealousy . I think thats what the Op meant

Ah. Understood.

Hello, Anxious. You are very welcome here, to the club nobody wants to ever be a member of.

As for discovery: as an anxious type I tend to obsess over the details of my wife’s private life and when I snooped on her photos I found evidence of her affairs. The details are very painful! She slept with one man many times over almost a year, had some sexual contact with a woman, and started engaging in an online affair with another (married) man a couple months ago. She claims they haven’t had sex but she has refused to sever contact.

This is painful to read. For me, for a lot of personal reasons I won't get into. I don't know you or her or your situation beyond what you're telling me, but the anecdotes you present in your post would indicate that she has checked out of the concept of Matrimony defined as an exclusive relationship between two people. Remember those "vows" you took when you got married? That's what I mean. Your wife clearly doesn't wish to be married any more.. at least that much is obvious here. So what to do? You have options, of course. Let's look at them.

1) You could accept her renegotiation of marital boundaries and live with it, of course. That would mean either never having sex with her again or having a condom on pretty much forever. I mean you or her no disrespect, but a woman having this much sexual contact without your knowledge, who has purposefully deceived you the entire time-- she's not going to tell you the truth if she was safe with her partners or not. She hasn't so far, why should she change? This strategy of caving in to her demands would be what we call "rug-sweeping". Treat the subject like it doesn't exist.. or make the best life you possibly can under this situation.

2) You could attempt to reconcile with your wife, under your terms of reconciliation. That would mean going no contact with her adultery partners. That would mean her doing a lot of work on just why she thinks its acceptable to commit adultery with strange men. This would be you telling her "I can't be in this marriage under the previous conditions-- marriages have their ups and downs and problems, but adultery is NOT the way to solve them. If you wish to stay married to me, the ONLY way to do that is to no longer be in adultery".. mind you it will be a very, very long time before you could trust her again, and likely you never will. Reconciliation is a ton of hard work to ask of any partner, and the foundation of reconciliation is she must have some element of remorse. As you explicitly state in your opening paragraph, your wife is not demonstrating any remorse, just regret she got caught. There's a huge difference. Is she willing to get individualized therapy for infidelity? Are you willing to get therapy for betrayal trauma and PTSD anxiety? You will both need this, I think (I'm not a therapist, I'm just experienced). Think long and hard. Is the wife that has revealed her true self to you in the last four weeks, the wife who refuses to let her adultery partners go.. is she willing to do ANY of these things? That's the decision you need to make if you want to reconcile.

3) You can accept that you don't want a third party in your marriage against your will, and divorce your wife. Plain and simple. Okay, it's never simple, but it might be necessary. If you don't want to live a life of misery, this might be your way out of it. Sure, there will be complications that are financial and family oriented-- you don't say if you children but if you do you will have to work out custody and selling the house and other things. It's a lot of detail work and there will be a period of enforced separation where you will have her affairs shoved in your face, but the up side is it will come to an end, eventually.

In fact, she now says she wants to continue seeing this guy and open up the marriage, meaning she could date this man , potentially fall in love and still be married to me and ina romantic and sexual relationship with me. Still not sure if she sees other partners beyond this guy or how far it’s gone.

Remember me mentioning RECONCILIATION a few paragraphs up? Remember the bit about requiring a remorseful spouse? Yep-- what you are describing is a spouse with no remorse whatsoever, so my recommendation is to work on plan 3 here. Plan 1 is (I guarantee this to be true) NO WAY TO LIVE. Not if you want to keep your pride and self respect. Your love for your wife is real, yes. But your love is for a chimera. She is NOT the woman that you thought she was-- sadly, she never was. What you have discovered, well, I'm very sorry, but that's really her. That woman you married, that woman you loved-- she CAN do this. She CHOSE to inflict this pain. She didn't think twice and even now, now that she is caught, there is no shame at all. This is not a remorseful spouse at all.

Non-monogamy is an arrangement we have never previously discussed. However my wife claims that this is just who she is - after starting the first affair she realized this about herself, that she is not a monogamous person and wants a polyamorous lifestyle. She says she couldn’t tell me because I wouldn’t understand her feelings or tolerate how she wants to live her life.

I'm going to say something a little controversial as I've been called on it before. Don't even consider this if you want to stay happy. The consistent pattern to this open marriage idea is "Partner A proposes "Open Marriage" where we can both date other people! Yay" To partner B. Partner B is usually reluctant. Then Partner B discovers (as he or she watches Partner A go out on date after date, not come home for the weekend, wondering where they are, missing social engagements to be with there other new friends, that this new "adventure" has left Partner B out in the cold). One person in that relationship ALMOST ALWAYS ends up experiencing a lack of equity and unfairness. Suddenly Partner A has no time for them any more and justifies this by saying Partner B agreed to it. It's called "Top Cover" for comm0ting adultery-- basically getting your partner to agree to something they would never do themselves to get themselves off the hook. The kicker here? Partner A usually has already commenced in the lifestyle and just wants the validation of the open marriage to give them the 'Seal of approval' they desperately need to feel good about themselves. Now, before I get people defending open marriages that work, let's just say that very well might be. I'm sure there are a few long term open marriages out there. I have not experienced a mutually agreed upon "open marriage" myself, so I can't say for myself.. but I have seen three couples I knew pretty well try this, and all three are now divorced or just finishing up getting there.

People are going to chime in with a lot of advice if they haven't already. Read up on the 180, get tested for STDs, see a lawyer at once, and etc. I won't repeat the common sense stuff.. because I don't want you to zone out on me. That doesn't mean that ALL of it isn't good advice. It is. Everyone on this board has faced the betrayal that is so fresh to you now. I know I have. There is a time to mourn, and there is a time to take swift, practical action. My advice? Stop mourning, start finding your own strength. Full 180, immediately. Take your power back. Get counseling for codependency. You will have to make your own decisions now. You can't control your wife's thoughts, actions or decisions. You just can't! You can only control YOU. So do that. Decide what kind of life you want to live for the rest of your life, and act accordingly. I'm so sorry you're here.

[This message edited by KingofNothing at 1:05 PM, October 26th (Monday)]

You talk about your “anxious attachment style”. This too is not conducive to an open marriage.

RealityBlows is exactly correct. I'm not quite sure what type of person is right for an open marriage but I'll leave that personal bias aside and just say that you have enough self-awareness to know this about your personality so take that knowledge and apply it here. Do you really think, given what you know about yourself, that you will be happy with sharing your Wife openly? Doesn't seem like you will. If you are unreasonably jealous or clingy then you need to work on that for your next relationship. I don't think given the circumstances here that anyone can make that assessment of you right now. To me your paranoia and snooping seems completely reasonable given how this has turned out so I'd quit beating myself up and labeling myself if I were you.

You worry about your children if you divorce. I think I'd worry as much about them if you stay together with your WW dating other men and women and you being miserable about it. I don't think that is healthier than Divorce for them.