SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Marriage can take shape in many ways and in many shapes. I won't pass judgement one way or another regarding whether open marriage is right for you because only you can decide on that. What I will say is the following:

If you choose to go the route of an open marriage read... a lot. Know what you are getting into and make sure that it is something you want. As many others have mentioned, an open marriage will never work in a situation where someone is coerced into it. You must both be comfortable and you must both want it.

Open marriage works for many people in many different ways and in many situations, people have reported that it made their marriage better because it improved their communication, it made them more open and in tune with each others needs and in some cases people have even commented that they felt less pressured to be "everything" to somebody else, Remember though, these things can be achieved without opening your marriage as well. Also, opening your marriage doesn't guarantee that these things will happen, it is still up to the people in the marriage to make these things happen.

With all of that said its important to remember that just like any other marriage honesty and trust still play an important role and when those aren't present it will still destroy a marriage whether it is open or not. Having an open marriage can certainly make you closer but opening an already broken marriage will only destroy it, it will never fix it. It takes a very strong marriage and excellent communication to open a marriage without breaking it.

Another important thing to remember is that even if the marriage is open both ways the opportunities that will come your wife's way will be of far greater frequency than the opportunities that come your way, are you ok with this? It will be anything but a "fair" arrangement if that is your expectation. Will you resent this. What will your feelings be when your wife is going out with other men 2 or 3 times a week and the best you can do is manage a date once every other month? What happens when your wife is having sleep overs every weekend while you sleep alone?

All of this is for naught though, Your wife destroyed the current version of your marriage. She has already shown that trust can't exist in your marriage for the time being and you being backed into a corner and relegated to a secondary role in your marriage will only break you as a person. Being given the ultimatum to open your marriage or divorce you really only have one choice and it isn't marriage.

Anxious,

Can you really imagine yourself sitting at home with your child knowing your WW is with someone else. There are many horrible things in life but that has to be in the top 3.

There's a good chance your WW has only told you about 3%, she may have felt like it was only sex with other people, but what changed now is that she has fallen in love.

I would only agree to an open marriage if I intended to divorce and I wanted to get the names of the people who cheat with my W for exposure.

Open marriage works for many people in many different ways and in many situations,

The best estimates are less than 4 percent of all marriages are “open” in any sense, and probably even fewer that survive as long term marriages.

Free love concepts have been around at least since at least 19th century and seem to have been grounded in a fictional misconception of human “innocence” in primitive societies. Contrary to this outmoded and wrong headed Age of Romanticism idea, there’s good reason to believe humans are geared toward monogamy. In the “state of nature” in hunter gatherer societies, monogamy is far more common than polygamy, according to metadata.

Meanwhile at least one study has found open marriages have a failure rate as high as 96 percent.

So the data would suggest it’s kind of a rotten idea based on flawed notions and with dubious results.

But regardless, most men are at a disadvantage in such an arrangement and the OP’s heart and gut seem revolted by the idea.

He should listen to his gut and reject the moral pit his unfaithful and abusive wife seems intent on wallowing in.

[This message edited by Thumos at 9:07 AM, October 27th (Tuesday)]

I have said it before ad nauseum and I will continue to pound away at it. Men are at an instant disadvantage in an open relationship situation. The woman, by fiat of simply having a vagina, will be able to attract 10x the number of willing partners as the man will, even if he is handsome and debonair. In fact, the woman doesn't even have to be attractive. She just has to advertise and the neighborhood dogs will come a howling.

Westway is sooo right! This is why dating sites go after men so hard! They need a steady supply of suckers to lust after the women on this site, And feed then ego kibble! a woman that's a 5 can easily snag a man that's a 8. Men will always line up to stick a willing hole.

On the serious side, I posted about a friend that happened to a while back. His wife came to him with his nonsense, And he served her a week later. Unless you are open to this, Or showed signs you were before marriage this is the only way to respond to this type of nonsense! Never allow anyone to disrespect you even your wife or husband this way. If you do it will only lead to misery for you....

When my wife was in her affair she suggested this.. Long term friends of ours had opened up their marriage to experiment.. She was sounding me out.. I turned her down.. She cheated anyway.. I'm monogamous.. I married her for life..

To open up your marriage requires a level of trust in each other that simply will never exist after an affair.. The WS has broken that trust.. But still wants access to the cookie jar??

I would tell her the marriage will be open once she has signed divorce papers.. Then she can go do whatever she wants.. But if she wants to stay married then she stays monogamous.. And puts that effort into YOUR sex life..

When my wife was in her affair she suggested this.. Long term friends of ours had opened up their marriage to experiment.. She was sounding me out.. I turned her down.. She cheated anyway.. I'm monogamous.. I married her for life..

To open up your marriage requires a level of trust in each other that simply will never exist after an affair.. The WS has broken that trust.. But still wants access to the cookie jar??

I would tell her the marriage will be open once she has signed divorce papers.. Then she can go do whatever she wants.. But if she wants to stay married then she stays monogamous.. And puts that effort into YOUR sex life..

Hi friend

It's hard to have your heart and life used this way. I know it feels good too her extra physical attention when you feel you're needing extra tlc.

Sometimes they will love bomb to get us in an agreeable mood or back in line.

Let me say that we are all imperfect. We have all been difficult sometimes. We all made mistakes. Life is rough and its hard to not have that wear on a marriage. Do not take too much negativity on yourself. Resolve that you will improve because you genuinely want to be a better person...for your daughter, for yourself, for friends and we would all be wise to improve so that the world can be a great place to live.

What shes asking for isn't fair. She wants her way. She has been dishonest.

For your marriage to be healthy she needs a completely different mindset. It's about honesty, gratitude, growth, sharing, helping, respect. It's not about what one person wants. To be married you surrender yourself in a way. You don't keep a secret self. Do you feel you have to hide parts of yourself? Please don't be negative about what is past. Forgive yourself and decide to work for something better. You can. We all can. Everyone is able to be healthier and stronger.

What about letting go of fear? Are you worried what will happen if she chooses a new life? I faced that fear and its hard. What I can say is that if you build strength in yourself and move in the direction that puts joy in your life you will be ok with her decision.

You know what's right, what's fair and have every right to a loving marriage that brings happiness to all members of your family.

Anxioushusband updated his original post on the 27th rather than go the normal way of adding a new post.

Makes it a bit harder, because then we need to go back and forth to follow the flow. I missed it until I went to confirm he still only had one post.

Basically he shared that due to his past there might be reasons for why his wife cheated.

That she won’t give up her paramour but she’s being very considerate to Anxious.

That she’s willing to tell him the truth if he asks for it, but he’s not certain she will tell the truth.

Frankly Anxious it’s the same speech we often hear from betrayed spouses when they hear the hard truths shared on this site. No matter how gently we try to pull the bandage it still hurts when the short hairs get yanked.

You won’t find a single poster here that recommends an open marriage founded on the basis she’s offering you. Nor will you find a single poster here worth his salt that will agree that there are mitigating factors explaining her decision to cheat. You might find that at some other relationship-sites, but this one is about infidelity, and that’s what we all see in your story.

We can’t help you sink deeper in infidelity. We can help you out of infidelity and we can even do that in a way that is likely to save your marriage. But we do not make compromises on there being some infidelity left and allowed in the marriage.

AnxiousHusband, you already have an open marrriage. Your stated your WW wasn't going to stop nailing her current OM. You say she is being compassionate. Really? She is talking to you nicely while she continues in an ongoing sexual relationship with another man. There is nothing compassionate about that.

If you are OK with this situation, then continue to do nothing but talk to your WW and ask her POLITELY to stop screwing other guys. She won't. But you can keep telling yourself that she cares about your feelings and ignoring reality. The other option is to STOP communicating with your WW at all while you think about what you want. She is showing you that she is NOT going to have a traditional M with you. Either accept the open M (which you already have) or D. Those are your only two options.

She has given me so much, stuck by me through tough times and has loved me unconditionally if imperfectly despite my considerable failures and f&ckups.

I see people say that they love someone "unconditionally" or their spouse loves them "unconditionally" and I just have to say that it is almost beyond the capacity of a human being to truly love someone without a condition. In this case your WW is not loving you unconditionally. She wants to keep seeing her BF. That is a big condition for you to accept to have her love.

She is remorseful and is talking things through with me in a compassionate way.

It doesn’t look like I can persuade her to give up her paramour at this time but she seems open to negotiating with me - rules of the road for the open marriage.

These two sentences directly contradict each other.

Her behavior is the very opposite of compassion and remorse.

She is actually remorseless. Love is a verb. It is carried out through actions.

She is acting in a hateful way.

You are setting yourself up for hellish misery if you accept any of this.

As I pointed out earlier “rules for the road” of an open marriage is like trying to negotiate what a devastating and life threatening earthquake will be like.

Good luck trying to negotiate the emptying out of yourself and the complete emasculation of your manhood.

[This message edited by Thumos at 11:41 AM, October 28th (Wednesday)]

Nothing your WW is doing is compassionate. If she considered you a bad husband, she should have divorced you, not cheated on you. You are allowing her to gaslight you and rewrite the history of the marriage.

[This message edited by Westway at 12:45 PM, October 28th (Wednesday)]

It doesn’t look like I can persuade her to give up her paramour at this time but she seems open to negotiating with me - rules of the road for the open marriage.

Well how nice of her - she is 'in wuv' with another man, screwing over her husband, fucking up her family... but what a peach to be 'open to negotiating' with you to allow her to continue this APALLING behavior.

Honey, just NO. If you don't want a marriage where your wife gets to screw whatever random guys she feels like for funsies while your soul withers inside yourself, then get off this merry-go-round. Cus guess what... not wanting an open marriage does NOT make you defective, or boring, or old-fashioned. It seems you are a monogamous person and there is not one damn thing wrong with that!!

You are under ZERO obligation to put up with this shitty and hurtful behavior. It took me a while to get there with my xwh, but I finally told him he could totally make the choice to be poly or whatever, but he could not do that and be married to me, cus it was not a life I wanted any part of.

PS - healthy non-monogamous relationships are based on honesty and mutual understanding and respect and in-depth communication. Your ww is DOING NONE OF THOSE THINGS.

But I understand why she did it

Most on this site do not accept ANY reason for cheating. It is NEVER ok to betray your spouse. Never.

It doesn’t look like I can persuade her to give up her paramour at this time but she seems open to negotiating with me - rules of the road for the open marriage

This seems simple to me. If you want her to have a boyfriend/side gig with your permission, then there's nothing more to do. If you do not want to open your marriage to others, there's plenty you need to do. Point is, decide if sharing her is acceptable and go from there.

I’m sure she is not giving me the whole truth, but I believe the general story is correct.

The general story without the whole truth is meaningless, sorry.

I agree with the others; she wants it all. The husband, the secure life, the boyfriend. I'm sure she's wonderful and remorseful but you have to be realistic with what you want from your marriage. Good luck!

Edit to add:

We can’t help you sink deeper in infidelity. We can help you out of infidelity and we can even do that in a way that is likely to save your marriage. But we do not make compromises on there being some infidelity left and allowed in the marriage.

THIS. Read this. Over and over. Let it sink in. And then read it again. No compromises with infidelity.

[This message edited by newlife03 at 2:25 PM, October 28th (Wednesday)]

I have said it before ad nauseum and I will continue to pound away at it. Men are at an instant disadvantage in an open relationship situation. The woman, by fiat of simply having a vagina, will be able to attract 10x the number of willing partners as the man will, even if he is handsome and debonair. In fact, the woman doesn't even have to be attractive. She just has to advertise and the neighborhood dogs will come a howling.

I have received some pushback for saying exactly this on SI before and other places online. "But that's not universally true!" I don't personally know. I've had a WS, who confessed she felt as if she was in an "open relationship" as an excuse,but never had that discussion with me. So I'm guessing it was one way for her and another for me. What I have seen is other couples (particularly in the toxic group of people she hung out with for fun) who did pursue notions of Open Relationships/polyamory and every. single. one. of those ended in very heated divorces. In every instance it was the woman of the pair who was "on an adventure" (e.g. sleeping with many partners) and the guy ended up being the person who stayed at home and watched the kids. It's the inequity of the arrangement that kills things almost more than the infidelity.

I'm sure she's wonderful and remorseful

I'm going to go out on a limb and say your wife is not very wonderful at all. Very un-wonderful.

Any person who would do this to another human being is decidedly not a wonderful person.

And she's certainly not remorseful at all. OP, you need to learn the difference between regret and remorse. Regret is self-centered.

And she's not even at the regret stage (guilt) she feels just fine about the whole thing and wants you to accept it.

As someone currently in an open relationship, this is not going to work, unequivocally.

Whatever fault you have in her decisions, she violated your trust. And now she wants to be able to continue seeing someone that she violated your trust with, in a relationship style that requires MORE trust and communication, MORE openness and honesty than a monogamous marriage.

Do you really, truly see that working, aside from any of the other issues?

The statistical outlier of open marriages working that began in infidelity with the person who was cheating still involved? Close enough to nil that I feel confident saying that, and I'm not a black and white kind of person.

Both parties have to want an open marriage for it to work- not one person foisting it upon the other. And the trust needs to be rebuilt in your marriage even if you do want it. That means that she would need to end it with this person regardless of whether you decide you also want an open relationship.

Does she even still want it if this particular person is off the table?

What do you want, independent of what she wants? Would you want an open relationship for yourself?

Start there before you make any decisions.

I have received some pushback for saying exactly this on SI before and other places online. "But that's not universally true!"

I think the "Upside pineapple" story in General is a good case-in-point. I find it hard to believe women would go up to a man with an upside down pineapple for swinger sex

I read the update, and all I gotta say is the people in your life who made you think what she's doing is understandable because of you not being the best partner you can be are toxic people. Or where ever those thoughts come from.

xWW was surrounded by people (mostly other younger women and cheaters themselves) who had the attitude that she can do whatever she wants because she's unhappy. If the shoe were on the other foot, those friends would have called me abusive. I feel like I'm reading a similar mindset in the update -- it's abusive to either gender!! Recently she begged to come back to me because she's unhappy -- her unhappiness comes from within and finding another partner wasn't the silver bullet.

She is remorseful and is talking things through with me in a compassionate way.

It doesn’t look like I can persuade her to give up her paramour at this time but she seems open to negotiating with me - rules of the road for the open marriage.

Thumos is right. These are contradictory. My xWW did this for a time, and while I was mad as hell and didn't accept "opening the relationship" I tried my best to NOT let the relationship be destroyed. She destroyed it anyways. It would have been better for me to just leave.

[This message edited by ShatteredSakura at 2:41 PM, October 28th (Wednesday)]