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She says she wants to reconcile. She says the behavior started two years ago. She says she is motivated to save our marriage, but the shame of her activities is making full disclosure difficult.

I thought you indicated her first marriage ended because of her cheating? Maybe I'm mixing up threads. If so, I apologize.

In any case, it really doesn't matter if it started five minutes ago, two years ago or she's been doing it a lifetime (I suspect some form of the latter). The fact is she seems to have gone over the falls in perimenopausal/menopausal barrel -- and she was fully capable of not doing that to you.

She says she feels shame and remorse and wants to make amends and be "the greatest wife ever"

I really don't get this. Not trying to be difficult, but I just don't understand it. It's like she's speaking a foreign language. My WW has said the same thing -- and I'm dealing with one 3 month affair (in which she brought AP over to our home for sex, natch). I don't know what they mean by "greatest wife ever" - they already lost that prize and I don't see how they ever get that back.

Just trying to be more realistic about the kinds of nonsense you'll hear from her. I heard it too.

[This message edited by Thumos at 12:49 PM, November 10th (Tuesday)]

If you decide to stay with your WW it is almost a guarantee that you will be in an open marriage, at least on her part. Therapy can help but it is not a miracle cure and that is what is needed for your WW to change. Her history is just too outrageous. So that is a choice you will have to make. Very sorry, but it is almost impossible to imagine a different outcome.

Anyone know if AM accounts can be deleted? Some accounts on some regular sites won’t let you, they delete when they are inactive for a time? Wondering if that is the case for AM? I guess I could go experiment.

As a clarification, WW had an affair in her 1st marriage. But he was unaware, the marriage ended for other reasons. I was only recently made aware when she admitted infidelity in every long term relationship.

I’m not sure yet how big mine is, it just keeps growing. At some point, betrayal is betrayal and even had it been one affair, I suppose i’d be in the same place.

I'd posit that your's is big enough to destroy your marriage...and that's as bad as it can possibly be. You can rebuild that, but only if you WW has the strength of character to do it. I'm not wise enough to posit whether she is or not.

Why would she not want to R at this point? She's playing with house money. If she's cheated in every relationship, she'll just cheat again if she feels like it.

She's never dated/married with integrity, ending something on her own. So of course she'd want R, it's a slam dunk for her. For you?

This ...

As a clarification, WW had an affair in her 1st marriage. But he was unaware, the marriage ended for other reasons. I was only recently made aware when she admitted infidelity in every long term relationship.

Seems to all but make this a certainty ....

If you decide to stay with your WW it is almost a guarantee that you will be in an open marriage, at least on her part.

We do see what seem to be a number of successful reconciliation attempts here on SI, but this only happens with highly introspective WS’s who are trying to “get it” and truly atone.

I can’t think of any successful reconciliation attempts I’ve read about with inveterate serial cheaters.

It also seems that most people who D serial cheaters are happy with their decision.

[This message edited by Thumos at 8:22 AM, November 11th (Wednesday)]

She says she wants to reconcile. She says the behavior started two years ago. She says she is motivated to save our marriage, but the shame of her activities is making full disclosure difficult.

If you walk this path, you need to make it clear to her that she is going to have to climb the Mt Everest of reconciliation attempts. Not just that it is hard, but that she will likely fail, and that it will involve at some point staring into the abyss of what has been an empty shallow nothingness where her Self should reside. And that no matter how well she does her part, your acceptance is far from guaranteed. You have your own road to walk.

Nothing is impossible, people are "born again" and turn away from their past regularly. But it is hard.

Apparition

I’m really having a hard time finding a story from anyone that had a wife do so much. Not that I haven’t found many horror stories and people in equal pain. I’m not saying mine is worse. I’m going to go through a new D-Day, maybe its the 4th D-Day - hard to count exactly. Then a polygraph to see if it is all out. Then I don’t know exactly, I’m getting comfortable with making no and slow decisions (if you can call chaotic bouts of despair, hurt, and anger “comfort”).

I know that my STBXWW is currently the Detroit bicycle for as many men as she can handle. Prior to DDay I have evidence she had affairs with twelve men. But I do know in my gut that she was doing this long before that. She has most likely been a serial cheater our entire two decade long marriage, but I have no proof, and she would never admit to it.

Believe me, I know the turmoil your mind is going through right now very well.

[This message edited by Westway at 12:54 PM, November 11th (Wednesday)]

Need to vent. So my WW and I are are having some bitter arguments right now. As a status update, I am not so patiently waiting on a comprehensive new DDay. Her affairs were many, complicated, and covered some significant time and ao I do get that a real DDay requires effort on her part. It appears to me the effort so far is minimal- but that itself is good information for my own decisions I need to make.

So the arguments all go back to the same pattern.. I feel the need to talk, express my hurt, anger, and ask her questions. The questions are generally of the “what where you thinking before or after this’ or when you were home and doing this.”. Sort of what motivated. what excuses or justifications were used, how did she betray her own values?

What I get to everything is rebuttals, not listening and not an honest attempt to answer or show me compassion. As some for instances:

Me: How did you justify to yourself what you did, fo you think the extreme porn you watched was involved?

WW: You watched porn.

Me: You did a lot of pre-meditated actions, like getting a burner phone, what were you thinking as you went about this preparation?

WW: Why am I always the one thats the bad person, do I have to live accused forever?

Me: The days before you met the “friend” long term affair to condensate your affair, you seemed like you were on drugs and didn’t care if you got caught, unlike the AM sex encounters that you covered perfectly. What was different about that affair?

WW: It wasn’t an affair, it was just sex, like porn watching which we both did.

Me: (angry) We’re weeks in and you don’t get that an affair is secrets and lies? (my anger is not red faced throwing things, never personally insulting, and never threatening- it is stern and often condescending). I say if everything is defined as a car, nothing is a car.

WW: We can’t get anywhere when you’re angry, its okay if you’re hurt, but I need time to heal and being angry over definitions takes a way my right to an opinion.

Me: WTF?

Sorry Apparition,

Right now she is not remorseful at all. She is defensive and unwilling to face her own immoral actions. She is protecting herself at your expense, trying to minimize her horrid actions. (“Well, we both watch porn.” Huh?). She is giving you nothing to work with. This is not unusual by the way. Read and implement the 180. Don’t engage with her. All you will get is blameshifting crap. Take care of you and detach. Stop doing things for her. This will help you move ahead and away and figure out what you want to do. The goal is to get out of infidelity. Right now your WW is showing you there is one path. Could that change? Yes, but she has to make a huge turnaround in attitude and willingness to show empathy and work in IC on why she has the ability to cheat. Good luck.

Dude ....file seriously. She is damaging your self respect and psychological well being.

She is a million miles away from getting it and clearly doesn't care to. Protect yourself.

Consider this option. Stop trying to get her to admit anything or own up to anything or be honest with you or answer your questions.

You are only banging your head against the wall and she’s not doing anything to soften the blow.

At this point, I also agree that the hard 180 is your best option. You cannot continue to go round and round in circles with her to get Some ridiculous answers from her.

I’m sorry you’re still facing this situation because clearly you have more patience than I do.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 7:05 PM, November 15th (Sunday)]

Wow, from her replies, she doesn't seem to be remorseful a bit. Regretful at most.

And comparing affair sex with porn is just Ridiculous.

You just cannot reconcile with somenoe who is building a wall around herself.

but I need time to heal and being angry over definitions takes a way my right to an opinion.

She needs to heal from WHAT exactly??? What other openion does she have regarding being sexually intimate with other man than her SO?

I think you are dealing with a Narcissist. And you are far far away from Reconciliation.

RUN !!!

Brother, you will never get get the information your require to move forward to heal. Closure for you with her assistance is off the table.

She is so much into her affair lifestyle and now that is over, she feels her needs to greave, that loss outweighs you, your children and life together! As she said what about me?

Just a very selfish person who thinks life revolves around her.

Just step back, have her served D and try to take care of yourself, children and the business. Keep the lawyer on speed dial and carry a VAR. Time to pull that pin and get out.

180 hard and be a grey rock.

So sorry for this shit storm ☔️

One day at a time.

Take a look at the person who you were just arguing with. THIS is the person that you are married to. Not the person from twelve, six, or even three years ago---but this person. Would you stay married to this person?

The person in front of you is who she is. She may be better in the future; she may be worse. But we make our decisions on not what they again can be, but who they ARE. And what you have is someone who is not even in this hemisphere of someone who can reconcile.

She says she wants to reconcile.

As long as you stop questioning her, stop making her uncomfortable, and never mention any of this again. That would be her definition of reconciliation.

The narcissist’s poem

That didn’t happen

And if it did, it wasn’t that bad

And if it was, it’s not a big deal

And if it is, it’s not my fault

And if it is, I didn’t mean it

And if I did

You deserved it.

She is gaslighting you, throwing red herrings everywhere and will never own up to a thing. That’s some sick thinking and excuse making you are dealing with.

[This message edited by Cooley2here at 4:13 PM, November 15th (Sunday)]

I don't post on here much but I have to say that you are getting answers and responses exactly like I was getting. Perhaps my experience might help you.

My girlfriend cheated on me with at least three different people that I know of. She said she was sorry and wanted to reconcile.

When I would ask questions or want to talk about my feelings she would make it all about her or blameshift and gaslight me with defensive replies that did nothing but make me feel worse or guilty for asking or like I was bothering her or like I was the problem.

Please please please do not put up with any of that bullshit. You are the one who has been betrayed. You are the one who has been lied to. You have already suffered enough damage and devastation by her own selfish choices to get fucked by other men with no regard for you.

Now she is continuing that same pattern of having no regard for you in her answers and in the way she treats your need to have those answers. She still does not get it or want to get it.

Someone who is truly remorseful would do everything they can to help YOU heal from the assault on your mind and heart that they themselves caused

In my case, I could not just sweep it under the rug and forget about it and not talk about it and go forward like nothing happened, which is what she wanted us to do in order to reconcile. She thought sorry was enough and that I should trust she would never do it again, a proven liar and cheater.

Anyway, sometimes we see what we want to see and we hope beyond hope that they will get it and realize what they have done and be sorry and remorseful and do the necessary hard work to change and build trust back.

But sometimes they don't because they can't or don't want to or it is too uncomfortable for them and they still don't value us or respect us or love us enough, even though they swear they do. Actions speak louder than words.

I had to move on from it all. It is difficult and heartbreaking. But you cannot heal with the situation you described. You have nothing to work with. It is not remorse if they are irritated at us for needing things from them to help us try to heal from situations that they themselves caused.

And by the way, reconciliation is a gift. It is a gift that we DO NOT OWE THEM. If they don't appreciate that what they have done could cause us to never even speak to them again for the rest of our lives, then they don't get it. They don't understand the amount of pain and damage and trauma they have caused by their narcissistic selfish choices to betray us in the most intimate and hurtful ways.

Do what is best for you and your mental and emotional health. Protect yourself from this nonsense. Stay away from that which continues to cause you pain. Focus on you and what you can control and what you want your life to be like beyond this.

[This message edited by LightningCrashes at 4:31 PM, November 15th (Sunday)]

I am going to be blunt. If my wife gave me Those kinds of responses I would go into a white hot rage. Pulling the tv off the wall rage.

You have everything you need to know now. There is no fixing this.

It time for her used ass to be out of your life.

She obviously saw you as she fucked around on anything that moved as a chump, and now she’s sees you as an annoying fool.

What in heavens name is redeeming about her?

What is it going to take for you to see her as she is? A liar, a user, a drama queen, a coward and a complete tramp.

I can't imagine how you can reset this marriage. She is a serial cheater who cheated on her prior husband. Her attitude as you have presented it is horrible. You will never have peace if you stay with her and it is a guarantee she will cheat again and again. If this is acceptable, so be it. Otherwise, time to leave. She is a horrible bet for future monogamy. I can't imagine your love for her lasting much longer. She completely pissed all over you and the marriage. Don't throw future good years of your life down the drain on a horrible bet.