SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

For my two cents, I offer my brother's story.

He dated his first wife for 10 years before they married. Then they had three kids.

Eventually, he was very unhappy and started an affair with a neighbor after he went to her place to help her with handyman type jobs around the house.

He broke it off and tried to fix his marriage.

The OW had gotten pregnant and didn't tell him for a whole year.

Eventually it all came out and his wife divorced him.

He started dating the OW after his divorce and being involved in his daughter's life.

They married and had another child together and seem very well suited and happy.

Our family likes her a lot. We didn't like the first wife.

I sometimes struggle with the idea that my brother had an affiar considering my personal history but we've never discussed it.

I figure it is their business and I don't blame his first wife for being bitter.

My grandfather left my grandmother for my stepgrandmother. She (my grandmother) discovered the affair, so I'm not sure what would have happened if she didn't, but they divorced before I was born and were together for around 40 years before my grandfather passed. They always seemed pretty happy. My mom told me that it made her very angry because my grandmother would ask my grandfather to do things with her, and he would bark that he was too tired. And he never lifted a finger to help her around the house. Yet he took my stepgrandmother wherever she wanted to go and was always up helping her with the dishes or housework. So, I don't think this is a story that plays out a lot, but it happens. For what it's worth, my family (my mom/dad and siblings) spent time with both sets of grandparents (my grandmother remarried a wonderful man) but if there was a choice to be made, we always chose my grandmother. And I was much closer to my stepgrandfather than my grandfather, because he was kind and caring with us, while my grandfather just sat around in his recliner being grumpy and watching Andy Griffen. My grandmother was a sweet, funny, beautiful, kind person who was loved by everyone, and my stepgrandmother acted sweet and is very pretty, but she's kind of a snake, which I can definitely see now that I'm an adult. So I think my grandfather and my stepgrandmother kind of deserved each other, while my grandmother was ALWAYS too good for his ass.

We actually have studies on this. It's about 2% of the time that the spouse leaves for the AP, marries and does not D. The other 98% of the time, it either flames out (most of them) or winds up in D (the vast majority that marry their AP).

I guess I do not believe those numbers. They are almost ridiculously low.

If it is some SA leaving for their latest AP, then it's probably a low chance. A lot of these are "branch swinging" affairs, where the intent of the A is to obtain a "better" partner.

Plus all of those stats are self reporting. Someone who is doing one of those branch swings, if the new marriage is still intact, is more incented to lie, report no A, than someone out of the marriage.

Really? I honestly think they are kind of high! I'm surprised that even 1-100 make it, I've never known a man who's done it (left his wife for the AP) and I've seen plenty of affairs in my day. Some are serials, so you wind up with 10 AP's, none of which he left for; further skewing the stats.

Anyway, there are plenty of sources out there, but the numbers are exceedingly bleak in any that I've read. I really do believe you would have better luck looking for a wife in a strip club (statistically) than looking for a wife in an AP. Now, on the other hand, I'd argue you're a LOT more likely to get laid by your AP than you are a stripper, so.. Kind of makes sense where the majority of the effort goes for most men.

"First of all, the probability of affairs ending in marriages is not very high — between three and five percent, and many join the 75 percent of second marriages that fail, a rate half again as high as first marriages. While fewer than 25 percent of cheaters leave a marriage for an affair partner, according to one source, most of those relationships are statistically extremely unlikely to endure."

was ALWAYS too good for his ass.

Thank you!

Depends how well the APs know each other. In the Charles/Camilla situation that predated the marriage. I do wonder if Diana would have ever found permanent happiness. It wasn't really trending that way for her.

Yeah, that one is an unusual case, because Charles would have married Camilla in the first place if it had been up to him. He was foiled in two directions: his parents had unrealistic expectations that he marry a naive virgin, and Camilla was at least as in love with her husband as she was with Charles. Add that he and Diana were a total mismatch, and it's not really a good example.

Springsteen left his actress wife for bandmate Patti Smith, and they've been married for 30 years, so that's another one in the column for "depends how well the APs know each other." Springsteen had a mad crush on his first wife, but it seems to have burned out quickly, while he and Smith had a lot in common.

After reading all the responses to this thread and other threads like it, I think it suffice to say that there is a whole shit ton of cheating going on, today and in the past. Its such a sad state of affairs that we continue to do this to one another.

I would probably think that those numbers would be different depending on the type of affair. For the serial cheating AP, it probably is 1% or lower that this person gets married and lives happily ever after.

On the other end of the spectrum, you have exit affairs. I would think that those would have better odds only b/c the spouse was planning on leaving anyway, and typically are just hesitant to pull the D. So the affair, if they chose the right partner to monkey branch to, those would have better chances of going long term.

Age also probably plays a part. Like many of you said, if you get up there in age, there is a chance that they don't want to go through with this exercise again, and have kept the AP around being just semihappy

tried to be supportive of my friend ("maybe he will realize he doesn't have to be in a loveless marriage and it was you all along") but it's hard not to be disappointed in her

Gently, why are you encouraging this affair? If you said what I quoted above,you are absolutely encouraging her.

Being a good friend,doesn't mean we stand by when our friend is doing bad things. You have all the wisdom of having been a BS. You know she's already in an affair. You know that married men say they are in a loveless marriage, only staying for the kids,etc. Because it gets then what they want.

Tell her to stop. He will come back,sniffing around, trying to get in her bed again. She may not listen to you, but the least you can do is not encourage it.

As to whether two cheaters ever end up happy..maybe. But no one knows what goes on behind closed doors. There are bound to be trust issues. And if they didn't work on themselves, then when things get rough,or they aren't getting the attention they feel they deserve, they will go looking for it.

I once heard that when a married man leaves his wife, and marries the mistress, the position of side piece is open, and he will eventually fill it.

[This message edited by HellFire at 5:58 PM, December 15th (Tuesday)]

My wayward dumped me for another man. Classic exit A. It was rough there for a few weeks. She told me initially that she was moving out of our shared home and into the AP's home, but weeks passed and there was no sign of her moving.

I tried to stay away from home, but it was my home and I was working a regular job. I was treated multiple times to coming home to find my WxGF and her AP/new beau canoodling in my living room. I stayed in our master bedroom by myself. Made them sleep in the basement.

Eventually I just moved out. I took my clothes, my guitars and amps, and that's pretty much it. All of the household stuff we had purchased together -- furniture, kitchen stuff, etc. -- I left.

It didn't work out between WxGF and her AP. They were broken up within 18 months.

Thanks everyone for the responses. I guess for me I just want to make sense of it all. I figure if the cheaters end up together, at least it will have been for something and I would understand why my husband would so purposefully hurt me like that. I posted in another thread of waiting for the "better marriage because of an affair" to come around and I don't see how it can be "better." Sometimes I feel like if he's not with her and things are just 'okay' with us and we carry on in our marriage then the affair and all that hurt was just for ... nothing? I don't know.

@HalfTime2017 Agreed.... there's a shit tonne of cheating going on and we continue to do this to one another... It's also kind of what "normalizes" it for me... like this shit happens all the time and (putting the heartbreak and other pain aside) maybe it's just something to 'deal with' in marriages? After thinking about all the people I know who have cheated or have been cheated on, I still always thought it wouldn't happen to me and here I am...

@HellFire Yeah, I totally saw that after I wrote this post. She is a really good friend and I guess I wanted to support her as a friend and put aside my own stuff. Honestly I think she was just going through a low point (middle of bad divorce) and I wanted her to know she would get through. Also, I was kind of trusting that she wasn't in an affair and hopefully did stop when she said she did.

Not sure if my ramblings make sense... I'm in a weird spot in my reconciliation journey, so thanks for listening :)

BSR - perhaps these are fine points, but I guess I'm in a mood...

Springsteen left his actress wife for bandmate Patti Smith

The Boss' wife/ bandmate is Patty Scialfa, not to be confused with punk poet Patti Smith, creator of the seminal album "Horses", and inspiration for the KT Tunstell song "suddenly I see", which is also the opening song for the film "The Devil Wears Prada".

Second, rumor is that Springstein had his own LTA, that only "came out" bc the OBS raised it in his D papers, some 4 years after his WW began the A with Bruuuuuce.

So, maybe their M is happy, but it sure doesn't seem infidelity free (and who knows if they have a polyamory arrangement - not that the OBS would care).

[This message edited by gmc94 at 10:14 PM, December 15th, 2020 (Tuesday)]

My friend married her HS sweetheart. Turns out he was a serial cheater.

They D. He remarried one of his OW who was young snd dumb. He cheated on her too.

He cheats on everyone. Nothing ever changed.

I guess I do not believe those numbers. They are almost ridiculously low.

I don't either.

My mom, after her divorce from my father, was the OW. She got pregnant, and ultimately married the WH after he divorced his first wife. They are still married now for 35+ years. Was it always happy between them? Nope. I think my step father cheated on her, but they seem relatively happy now in the last 15 years and he was always very good to us kids.

My WH's father had a 5 year A, ultimately left his mom, and married his AP 10+ after his divorce years. They are still together and seem pretty happy.

What does that mean? Nothing.

I don't either.

Well, find your own stats; they are out there. But I've looked, and they're pretty consistent, the chance of an A leading to a lasting M are very small. Think about it for a minute, what are the chances any FWB relationship leads to lasting marriage? I'd guess they are also "very small", and that's without the complication of an A. The thing in a real FWB situation, both people know, going in, that "this isn't going anywhere" and do so with open eyes. In an A, it seems that the vast majority of the cases, it's not "FWB while we're married", at least not for both APs. Someone thinks this is "special" or "the love of my life" or something "deeper" than FWB. The only exceptions I can think of are professional ones, where a guy is paying someone for sex; hopefully they both realize this is just a "paid FWB" situation. But when it's not a "pro" on the other side, someone is "selling" the love of my life story and someone is "buying" it. Doesn't matter though, because the nature of the relationship is far more "FWB" than it is some romantic love story.

There would be two sets of statistics. Per A and per AP.

Johnny Cash cheated repeatedly on his first wife. June Carter was one of his APs. Johnny would wind up being her third husband, don't know her cheating history. They lasted 'til death, but it is still one for whatever with Johnny, because you have to count all of the other APs.

So if you add Johnny to my ex, who will likely be one for one, the percentage is still pretty low. The repeat offenders lower the numbers because unless they are bigamists, they are only marrying one at a time. But the number of intact marriages that are a result of infidelity is going to be a lot higher than the success rate of a particular affair.

My WH left his first wife for the OW. They lasted about 7 years before splitting. He won't post here, I think out of fear of what people will say, but based on what he has told me, it was never really great. There was always distrust, and he was not her priority. Apparently he found out at one point that snagging him was done on a sort of dare between the OW and another woman in the office. It was a game to see who could bed him. So yeah, she was a real winner. There was also a question of whether or not she cheated on him.

But anyway, they had an ugly split. I was still seeing some fallout from it when he met me 6 months later.

Not sure about stats and such, just sharing my indirect experience. I think like all relationships, some work out and some don't.

My dad left my mom in 91. He married his AP 2 days after their D was final. He and his AP have been married ever since.

I don't know how their relationship is. Superficially they seem fine, but when any conflict happens, it's not good. I'm sure that as long as she keeps buying him beer, he'll stay.

I have no idea if they still have cheating issues in their relationship. But I do know that one time I came to town and he picked me up at the airport. We went to a restaurant and were waiting on his wife to join us. When she walked up to us, she was laughing because one of her co-workers had seen us and called her to tell her that they just saw her H walk into a restaurant with a younger woman.

I seen this topics and felt like I needed to respond.

I am the WW and no I am not with my AP.

We do have people that live close to us who did cheat on their spouses with each other and just gotten M this year.

Having some insight on their relationship would I use the word “happy” to describe to them? No. Not even close. I would say its more like they are settling with each other then anything. Like “I made my bed and now I have to lay in it”.

The insecurities they have are so freaking high and unreal. You can see it clear as day. No trust. No Real commitment. Lots of using each other’s insecurities to take control and teach the other person a lesson that “you don’t control I will show you”.

Threats of one another if x y z are not done or shown to prove you want me here or I will leave. Making the female question for a while why don’t he want to M me? I wonder why. Can’t show him you are actually commitment so why will he commitment to you?

About a year ago I told my H I will hope that they don’t bring their crap upon us. And yes it did. This summer I guess she had an issue with me being over there a few times and I had bend over and they could see down my shirt. I was not aware of this matter.

BUT...I am getting this big long introduction before hand about “you know how we started out....” blah blah blah. Going on to make a comment about me loosing weight and wearing the cute clothes. To also making the statement of she don’t need her man’s mind to wonder. And how they protect their relationship very closely. Then let’s get to the part where she had the problem with me. Ok.

To me all the crap before was not my problem and never will be my problem. My H, the BS here, cared but not really. He knew I was not doing this in propose so therefore say what you need to say about it then let’s move on.

This was kinda the icing on the cake for me because a while back he find out my H had her number and wanted my H to delete his gf’s number BUT of course this had nothing to do with trust on either end just didn’t feel right to him. Later learning she still had my H’s number of course he didn’t want to start the fire with her so he thought he would control my H to make his relationship better.

Shit kinda hit the fan with her and I. She really thought I had to be “mindful” of their relationship because I know how they started out. Like I had some sort of obligation with him and her. The only obligation I have is with my H and my own M. But I was not the first person to “ interfere“ with their relationship. She got mad at me because I was not getting it. No I didn’t need to get nothing. I don’t own you and “your man” crap. It’s your job to fix your own crap.

It’s a lot of “don’t you dare look in the Direction of the opposite sex because there will be hell to pay”

I guess one time he got caught looking my way and she saw it.

He paid a price for it for days if not weeks.

After 6 or so years of being together you really can’t blame it on whoever or whatever. They made their bed and now they have to lay in it together. Neither one of them fixed their shit because I know first hand whatever problems they had in their first M was a good enough reason to cheat and they don’t recognize that. Therefore they are going to try to control whoever or whatever they can to make their relationship better and blame others for it.

My H and I don’t feel sorry for neither one of them. They brought this on themselves but did nothing to fix it. In fact they use that against one another. My H is still friends with the male but I certainly keep away. My H and I have worked very hard with our own problems and I don’t want people who have done a thing to bring us down.

They both made their choice. That’s the thing. My H didn’t make this choice. I chosen for him. They want to blame their own choices on why their is lack there of trust but did nothing. Out of us and them I would think it would of been so much harder for me to regain that trust from my H because he didn’t have the choice. He didn’t choose this. But we have over come and rebuild our M better.

Overall do I think WS are happy with their AP? Probably not. Because mostly they didn’t fix their shit on why they thought it was ok to cheat in the first place. And when you start out with your relationship like that your showing them what you are really capable of doing by cheating.

I am learning to keep my distance from them not because they are cheaters, because I was once there but I think a huge factor in all of this is my H and I have overcome our issues as a person and in our M and we have worked super hard to get where we are at and I don’t want people in my life who has not done nothing to chance their ways because it will keep “ interfering“ with what my H and I have done and are continuing to do. Because they will as long as we let them. Like I am the problem or my H is or them trying to control us because they are too afraid to say a word to each other because it leans to “don’t tell me what to do or control me” then go off to do somthing that makes the other person worried. Yes this happens often.

We do have people that live close to us who did cheat on their spouses with each other and just gotten M this year.

godheals. Are they same friend who was cheating on her husband and you posted about giving her advice in 2017?????

Sorry for threadjack

No it is not.

That friend is long gone from my life now. She didn’t like the things I had to say as far as there is nothing special sbout her AP and her A. Your M problems didn’t have nothing to with your choose to cheat and the best one she hated was I told her she was still M and with her H and she was still obligated to him and she needed to stop.

Those people live close to us and they lived in our town before we moved here a few years ago.