SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Telling your kids can be important to YOUR healing, but (more importantly imho) it is a good opportunity for your ww to hold herself accountable. Because she didn't just hurt you - she hurt them too. Infidelity affects the whole family, not just the BS.

I do not agree at all with people who 'shield' their kids from things. Kids are intuitive beings and chances are high they know something was going on anyways. Age appropriate discussions are key I think. Obvs I don't think kids need the whole story with all the dirty details, but sharing the broad strokes is fine.

When I was about 10 years old, I noticed a dramatic change in my parents' relationship. Within a year to two it was clear to me that they were not happy together. Like you, they stayed together because they thought it was best for me and my younger sister. That didn't work out so well. In fact, it was rather miserable for all us.

I've always wondered if one, or both of them, cheated. It wouldn't surprise me, knowing what I know now about surviving infidelity (or not). Over the years, I've occasionally asked my father about their marriage (mom's been gone over a decade) and he always tells me (his only son) that it's very private.

I'd like to know. I also have to respect my father's wishes. Would knowing the truth, if there is one to know, change anything for me? It wouldn't change the past, I know that much. It wouldn't change the way I feel about my father, either. At this point, not much could.

I do know one thing for certain: learning to avoid conflict and internalizing a truly fucked-up concept of interpersonal relationships has made my life a bit more difficult than it needed to be.

If you're going to tell your kids what happened, have a lesson in mind, a story to tell, wisdom to impart. Who knows? Maybe some of it will sink in and you'll save one of them a little heartache down the road.

Best of luck however you chose to proceed.

[This message edited by Unhinged at 4:31 PM, February 4th (Thursday)]

Kids are intuitive beings and chances are high they know something was going on anyways.

I believed this and have tried to be honest with my kids. They have NOT appreciated the honesty, which surprised me. Their opinion is that they should have been left out of it unless they asked. I have a lot of guilt about this and wish I could go back and not tell them things.

What about asking if they want to know what has been going on? Or offering the info? This is what I wish I would have done.

My kids were comfortable with an acknowledgement that things had happened, that they weren't crazy to sense the tension. But my daughter told me (and her IC--ouch) that I "put her in the middle" when I gave her some facts. The IC agreed with her, said it was not right to put my "marital issues onto the kids."

This is how my daughter feels, and my boys want nothing to do with discussing it. It's all tmi to them. And I spoke in generalities! It was completely age appropriate.

It is my view that your WW offers to talk to them and share info. "We know you guys have lived this." And you are sitting next to her. But the kids should get to decide if they want this dumped on them now, at this age.

Their opinion is that they should have been left out of it unless they asked.

This is what my kids have expressed too. They seem to not care nor do they want to be bothered with the marital issues.

IC asking me what an appropriate punishment would be for my WW

First of all it's a stupid question. It puts the onus on you for what needs to be done to her for you to feel better.

Also can be phrased as: "What else do you need for chrissakes?!?!"

***

Second, the answer is an appropriate punishment for her is to no longer have a marriage to you. Except that's not really a "punishment", it's a "consequence".

And consequences often don't feel real good.

If you decide to stay with her, that's a "gift" or an unearned "opportunity". However, there are consequences to that decision, for both you and her.

***

Lots of therapists are bad at infidelity.

Good luck.

OwningItNow. Im sorry your discussion w/ your children didn’t go well.

I’m surprised b/c I was under the impression you should be honest w/ your children. Not tell them the gory details but a sanitized version of the truth.

Have things improved?

This is not about punishment for your wife, it is ending Your punishment.

This is about your regaining yourself respect. This is about You empowering yourself.

You have suffered in silence, time o let it out and heal.

Have things improved?

Thank you, 1stWife. Now that we are reconciled, the kids are less upset about the situation. Their attitude seems to be, "We just want you to be happy; we really don't care about the reasons you weren't."

My lesson where they are concerned has been that kids want stability, and stability to them is parents who handle their emotions for the sake of their kids. (I still remember arguing quietly--or so I thought--in the kitchen and my youngest coming out of his room, saying, "Please stop! Don't you think about how your kids feel?") And this "handling of emotions" includes leaving them out of the details. They don't want to be in the middle or feel they are supposed to take sides.

To be clear, my kids do not want to be lied to or tiptoe around wondering. But they would have been satisfied with, "We're going through something difficult."

Maybe others have had different experiences involving kids, older kids. Mine were teens and late teens when I told them of our problems. I feel that my telling them made me look bad, not my H. My kids seemed to think that my honesty was intended to turn them away from their dad. They didn't say this exactly, but I could tell in their tone of voice and anger--toward me. I really didn't see that coming. The whole experience completely shifted my thinking on what/why to tell kids what happened in the M.

My advice now: be honest but speak in generalities. If you are working on the R, tell them that. Getting a D, then tell them that. Then say, "Do you want to hear my reasons?" Let them have some power over their position in all of this. Gutpunch33, if the kids have asked you two about your M, about the details, then answer their questions honestly. But if they have not and you decide to sit down and share, be prepared for anger--yes, at her for what she has done but also at you or the both of you for burdening them with information that kids "don't need to know." Anyone that has ever been raised being told all the gory details about their other parent's bad behavior can tell you that it comes with its own caution sign.

EllieKMAS

says:

I do not agree at all with people who 'shield' their kids from things. Kids are intuitive beings and chances are high they know something was going on anyways. Age appropriate discussions are key I think. Obvs I don't think kids need the whole story with all the dirty details, but sharing the broad strokes is fine.

Unless 'the kid' is dumber than a dry rock - this is true.

I was EIGHT years old when I figured out my "mother" & "father" were capable of giving alley cats lessons

I made myself a promise to not follow their example. One CAN learn from others -

Gutpunch,

I wasn't willing to be a part time Dad, so suppression was my friend because it bought me time to until the kids are all grown. The youngest heads to college in August

No one can fault you for doing what you needed to do.

I can think of at least two times where the man was cheated on and the kids were told that their mother cheated and the kids still came by the side of their mother.

The first is Waitedwaytoolong where the kids faulted him for not being able to get over it and breaking up the family even though their mother had destroyed the marriage.

The second is walloped where the daughter was yelling at him because he must have done something to hurt their mother. When Mrs.walloped told them that she had cheated the rallied around her.

I tell you this so that if you are thinking the kids might somehow choose sides it will more than likely be with your WW.

Owning:

My lesson where they are concerned has been that kids want stability, and stability to them is parents who handle their emotions for the sake of their kids. (I still remember arguing quietly--or so I thought--in the kitchen and my youngest coming out of his room, saying, "Please stop! Don't you think about how your kids feel?") And this "handling of emotions" includes leaving them out of the details. They don't want to be in the middle or feel they are supposed to take sides.

My parents told me about my mothers infidelity (I was a preteen at the time) and it caused damage to me. I am working through it in therapy now, but even more so the damage done by them leaning on me. I think your point is good that kids might get upset with the BS because they feel they are being set up to be mad at the other parent.

The portion here I am quoting from your post made me proud of your kid and of you! I could never have told my parents that I couldn’t handle their crap. I felt responsible for them. I think this response of your kid shows that they know you are handling things and they pushed back when they heard an argument. I think it is a really good thing, they felt safe to do that.

..call it punishment or consequences, my fww has to live with herself and her bad choices. She also has to live with knowing our two sons know she cheated with their father's bff.

Most readers here also know that that this scumbag died from a brain tumour at 57.

Now, that's a consequence I can agree with! Rot in hell Stephen.

smy

I think the question is whack and he's trying to make some kind of point that will wind up hurting R more than helping it.

I say you go in there next time and say you want her to kneel on rice for 3 hours. Keep a straight face.

^^^^^^

now that is amusing!

Recommend you make her read all of my posts.

What kind of a question is that?

For me - I'd LOVE WH to present me LTAPs head on a silver platter a la Creepshow.

Great dark fantasy - but how is that really helpful? What will that really accomplish? And seriously - it illegal and disgusting. Outside of being a dark fantasy - EWWWWW....

There's no restitution here - no eye for an eye - no punishment like an errant child.

Your WS can't build you a time machine.

There's no making this right.

I'm very curious to hear what that IC expected to hear as an answer.

I suspect your IC wants to hear “Oh, there is no way I’d want to hurt her, and there is no justice.”

Because you can’t admit to homicidal ideation without going to the psych ward, lol.

I would respond back with the following-

That question is simplistic. Of course there is no justice. I’m aware of this. I’m here looking for a way to cope with that fact, and I am more aware of this than you. I have insight that this is not fair. So help me wrap my head around why I should stay, because I have no or minimal choice in this, and I need to find a coping skill beyond what I have at the moment. More appropriately, the choice I made was based not in wanting to reconcile, but in wanting to NOT divorce. Which is not the same.

Btw- my counselor and I discussed this exact issue and that was my response. She said it helps to thought block (which is actually an unhealthy coping skill, but we had exhausted all others). So when I’m having an angry day, I shop, or eat, or exercise (shit, I put like 5-10 miles on my shoes those days), or just sit and watch TV. I am also an avid video gamer. The game Fallout makes me feel hopeful about the future.

I’m not always there, though, as evidenced by my angry posts of late. That’s a sign that my usual coping isn’t working.

Feeling cute. Might launch a nuke later.

Can you tell us about #1 and why divorce but stay together? Is it entirely financial?

Interesting discussion. Justice and mercy and the control of it. Can you ever obtain enough judgement to right the wrong? I doubt it. I think the idea of a higher power being responsible to dole out appropriate justice is freeing. Although forgiveness (acceptance?) takes time and isn't a point in time decision. Mercy is a constant choice and helps if you feel whole. Grieving takes time and hurt people limp along as best as they can at times.

My kids knew about my exWW's infidelity but not the extent (4 A's over 2 years). A polygraph request was met with anger. There were at least 3 wives over the years that literally yelled at my exWW telling her to stay away from their husbands. Something I forgot about but has recently helped with putting the marriage in perspective. My DD was 14 when she asked if her Mom was having an affair and she told me AP#1's name. I don't discuss the A's with my kids but you can see their feelings and that they are soft with their steps when they talk to me about friends or parent's of friends who have cheated or been cheated on. Kids get it and their intuition is pretty good. Pick the relationship you want with them and try not to put extra emotional weight on them. The problem I have with not discussing it, is that infidelity has some FOO issues that probably need some IC time so they don't rinse and repeat history. So at some point, they probably do need to look at that part of themselves. Life is messy isn't it?!

[This message edited by BobPar at 1:01 PM, February 17th, 2021 (Wednesday)]

I am a WS, I am also a BS. I didn't read all your responses, so I am sorry if I just say something someone else did.

"Punishment" to me is associated with a parent/child relationship or one of authority over another person.

I like the word consequences. And, many of the consequences of infidelity are naturally occurring. There are WS who do adjust to the consequences so they don't bother them, or blame the BS for the consequences. But they would react the same if we were talking about punishment.

I have found with my BS hat that the things I have "inflicted" kind of out of spite or punishment actually ends up making me feel worse about myself. But, when my husband experiences natural consequences, then I just don't save him from them. That to me is tough love, and it's part of reconciliation.

Noone makes us stay. We can keep ourselves talked into our circumstances dictate it. But, we have to look at staying as a choice we are making. Aligning ourselves with that choice means boundaries have to be in play.

So, you decide about your boundaries instead and you have some very specific follow through on them. Boundaries would include the requirements you make on the WS - the basic ones such as phone and internet transparency, what happens if they break NC, what happens if they are caught cheating again, they have to go to IC, they need to be actively working on themselves and the relationship. Those are the basic ones.

But, there is a striving as well eventually to become equals again and punished/punisher to me doesn't lend itself to that.

I don't mind if you feel that you want to tell your kids. That's a personal decision. However, it should never be considered a punishment. Kids are not something to be used for punishment, even grown ones. Telling them to embarrass her, that's not a reason. Telling them because you need them to know and want them to understand you or the circumstances that's not a punishment.

Personally, we still haven't told our adult kids. When I had my affair my H didn't want them to know. He felt they were at places in their life they should enjoy and he didn't want to make our problems their burden. I didn't completely agree with this, but they do live further away. Older teens and young adults tend to be wrapped in their own world by that time, and unless there was going to be a divorce there didn't seem to be a lot of reason to make them part of the struggle.

I like honesty. Now that the shoe is on the other foot, and my H has cheated, I find that I am not inclined to involve them in that either. I wanted to tell them after mine due to guilt. I have a different perspective on that now. I have some newly weds and one trying to finish college. I am not sure I want to disrupt their sense of security or happiness with our issues.

But, if they were around all the time, I also wouldn't want them to feel like something was off but not know what. When we see them there is such a whirlwind, I am convinced (and I am tuned into them) they don't sense anything at all. If they did, I think I would tell them. But, again they are at a stage that their lives are more about them then the life we shared together as a family.

There are no real right or wrong answers, other than I don't think punishment and telling the kids are meant to be in the same sentence.

I will end this with what I feel as the WS - and that is I don't think anyone could punish me more than I punished myself over it. I have felt the consequences and know they are on me. It took me some time to gain that perspective, but I would say for someone to be a worthwhile investment for a reconciliation this is paramount. The WS has to feel horrified by what they did and work their ass off that they will not be susceptible in the future. I think if it's done right you would be seeing the consequences or self punishment and would be less adamant about inserting your own. So, I think maybe your wife hasn't demonstrated that she feels the consequences of her actions? What has she done to help you?

[This message edited by hikingout at 1:34 PM, February 17th (Wednesday)]