SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

DIFM, it is about the effort. And if the WW puts in the same

effort at the gym she should get the same results.

I could see D day, WW PA blew up the marriage. WW and BH

going through the motions, life, work, everything is put on

hold. No one is cooking, cleaning, going to work. WW stopped

going to the gym. She is putting on weight.

Once they choose recovery and doing work it is time to provide

her BH with just compensation.

WW stop fucking the OM is not just compensation. That does

not make up for her having a PA. There is nothing a WW can

do to undo the affair sex. No effort can be applied to this

particular fact that she had sex with the OM. No amount of

effort can undo the sex with the OM.

WW made the effort to go to the gym to look good for her

OM. She as part of just compensation go to the gym to look

just as good for her BH.

Thats the point of all these threads and while its ok to have these selfish thoughts “ i want my spouse to act like the best sex object out there because its a reflection of who i am on the sexual totem pole” please dont dress up your coarse ( albeit relatable ) thoughts as if you are driven by altruism - at that point this is just you bullshitting yourself while we watch . Lets keep it honest .

Just compensation is not about the BH getting to go around

and brag I have a super hot looking wife.

Men do not brag how good the sex with their wife is or how

good she looks when her clothes come off.

Though she will look a lot better at 60 by going to the gym

then not going to the gym.

If the only reason for going to the gym is the satisfy, fulfill, gratify my husbands external need for validation then its a waste of my time and energy.

Because:

A. He will NEVER be satisfied or feel validated by external means.

B. I personally can get a nice enough work out at home doing chores on my farm.

C. My worth isnt based on what anyone else thinks of MY body.

Compensation makes the marriage transactional and removes any ability for full recovery because you as a BS are keeping the WS in the same unhealthy mindset they were in when they had the affair.

Just MHO of course.

OT, I am trying to understand this "just compensation" you keep reiterating. As you said, a ww can't 'unfuck' her ap. Sooooo. Just my thought here (and I've said it more than once on this thread) - how can a WS ever "justly compensate" their BS? I still hold to it that they cannot. There is simply NO "just compensation" for a BS in infidelity.

There are many BS that cannot get past their WS having a PA

so they get divorced. Because they cannot let go that their WS

had sex with the AP and there is nothing that a BS or a WS do

undo the sex that took place during the PA.

Just compensation does mean that the WW has to make the

effort to give the BH things she can do to provide just

compensation.

A WW giving her BH just compensation is a WW doing

something that she can do and the BH wants and needs

Just because she gives her BH a hall pass does not make it

right, hence a hall pass is not just compensation.

A WW going to the gym for her BH as she did for her OM

is something that she can do. This providing just

compensation.

Just compenstation is laughable. I'm sorry but it is. There is nothing a WAYWARD SPOUSE can do that will ever make up for the that level of betryal.

Marriages get comfortable. You get the burps, farts, hey look at this zit/wart/whatever other gross thing you can think here.

AP gets unicorn farts and being so called new/shiney toy status.

WS are going to put effort in the AP. No doubt about it. Now, I am generlizing here, but I would think for WW that may include sex acts NOT done with the BH.

But what about compensation for the BW from there WH? What effort did WH put in for his AP because I'm telling you now, it was a lot different than sex acts. There may have been some flowers, gifts, some type of romantic attention that the BW did not get but the AP got.

To me it sounds like you are more upset at being served "meatloaf" and the AP got "Prime Rib" and you want the prime rib.

I'm not saying that a REMORSEFUL WS shouldn't be putting in an effort to their BS. But again, marriages are different than the affair. It's not the same and if there is no geniune feelings there I wouldn't want the FORCED so called compenstation by the WS because that will only lead to RESENTMENT for both the WS and BS.

And I have got to say, have you actually asked why your WW will not do certain things with you? Maybe the go to answer is "I just don't like it" but maybe there is another reason and not trying to hurt your feelings? I don't know but some SPOUSES may not like to perform certain acts if hygiene has not been taken care of say after a day of hard work/work outs/ or whatever.

If the premise - BS need to see similar effort as shown for the A - remained the same, but what need to be shown was different, would the concerns be the same?

If, for instance, the WS had a job wherein they normally traveled often. BS never really asked where they were going because BS knew it was the norm for their job and trusted them. Now, WS meets their new shmoozie unicorn, who happens to tell them the absolute most best thing in the world the love to do is travel and AP so wishes they could experience the wonderfulness of travel together, you know, because they have such a special thing. So, oldtruck's wife spends her days and evenings planning (scheming) various trips to satisfy her new wanderlust bf, and tells oldtruck that each of those "work related" trips are nothing but boring, stay in a motel, retched business trip.

Now, oldtruck himself loves the idea of travel. Would love to have had his wife plan jaunts here and there and everywhere to be with him on terrific romantic outings....just the two of them. But, alas, life such as it is, he understands that to expect this is not so reasonable. And she travels so much already for these often boring business trips. He knows, life is what it is. And lives with he rare week vacation to wherever.

Until.......dday! In which what oldtruck finds out is that WW has spent much of her so called work time on her computer instead, planning dreamy dream unicorn travels with her new AP. Cutting to the chase, the gig is up, she WS has been outed, the days and weeks and months pass over the trauma of the infidelity..........and then......oldtruck realizes what he really needs from his WW is that she spends as much time and energy and interest in planning travel and jaunts and trips with him as often as she did with her feel good AP oldtruck needs his WW to demonstrate the same kind of "how I wish I could run off to Topeka for the weekend with you" as she did with Mr Shmoozie pants.

If this was not about "effort" towards looking great for BS as she did for her AP and her A, but was rather her doing the serious effort to plan and arrange and figure out how to make happen regular trips with oldtruck.........but wait, she determines, they've been married for 30 years and love each other so much that that kind of often romantic trip is just a waste of money and not necessary............would the view of this "effort" from her be the same.

He wants from her what she did for herself, for her AP, and for the A.......the effort to do the same. If her effort had been arranging travel for the benefit of her A, would we think it unreasonable if he expected the same time, energy, interest in planning travel for him, even if travel was no longer of that much interest to her and she had "reasonable" issues that led her to the limited effort?

Is this mostly because what oldtruck needs from his fWW unfortunately has to do with her personal extra effort to look as good as she looked for her A, and and this "looks" effort thing is the trigger?

I think this is the most simple and basic of all post-infidelity concepts that exists, muddied by unnecessary complexities. The simple question seems to me to be, does a BS have a reasonable basis to ask of their self-proclaimed remorseful, contrite, empathetic WS to extend the same effort towards their BS and the R as they extended to themselves, their AP, and their A? It does not seem a reasonable premise that to extend the same effort in romance or sex or care or attention or travel, or whatever to their BS is inherently tied to some sense that to do these thing would be to ask the WS to continue with their unhealthy ways.

It is healthy for a WS to show remorse and empathy and deference and contrition and effort, that builds trust in the way the BS does. None of this would be encouraging bad habits or unhealthy ways that got the WW to where they ended up. I think there is much more going in responses than reaction to the concept of effort needed by the BS, as a means to determine if trust and vulnerability is safe.

What then is a reasonable effort need and what isn't? If a WS spent once a month eating out at a fancy restaurant with their AP, was then outed, then made justifications to their BS for how going out to fancy restaurants with their BS in R was just not needed, that hey only did it with AP because they needed to to keep up the kibbles......would the too be seen as an unreasonable effort need by the BS. Where is the line drawn?

Well written.

Going out to restaurants, trips, are all over rated.

Honey (BH) I (WW) know this first hand. Believe me

we do not need to do this.

BH why are you making me plan date nights, find fancy

restaurants, go on romantic trips. Are you trying to trigger

me and rub my affair with the OM in my face?

BH how ridiculous and immature you are behaving insisting

I plan date nights us, go to nice restaurants, go on romantic

trip with you just because I did those things with my OM.

Do think that means I have to do them with you? BH stop

being unreasonable. Stop acting like a child.

[This message edited by oldtruck at 4:37 PM, February 25th (Thursday)]

OT, I am trying to understand this "just compensation" you keep reiterating. As you said, a ww can't 'unfuck' her ap. Sooooo. Just my thought here (and I've said it more than once on this thread) - how can a WS ever "justly compensate" their BS? I still hold to it that they cannot. There is simply NO "just compensation" for a BS in infidelity.

Perhaps the semantics are getting elevated here. I've used a cake analogy many times. Say the BH loves chocolate layer cake, but the WW never baked one for him and, because the BH perceived that the WW didn't enjoy baking them, he never pressed her on this.

Then he learns that, during the A, the WW was baking cake after cake after cake, enthusiastically throwing herself into the process, making a tremendous effort to produce truly spectacular cakes.

Not every BH will get past that. Many will say: "If you wanna bake cake for AP, then I'm setting you free. Go bake as many cakes for that man as you want. Knock yourself out."

But for those BH's who try to R, the sense of "injustice" over the degree of effort the WW invested into baking those cakes for the AP, depending on the person, can be overcome if she chooses to invest a similar effort into doing something for the BH.

Though I have seen many a WW that were over weight before

their PA. Go to the gym, loose a lot of weight, get toned up.

Then have a PA, cut off sex with their BH.

After D day the WW stops the gym and puts all that weight

and maybe more back on. Then refuses to put in the effort

to get fit again for her BH after D day, recovery.

That is similar to a WW that did sex acts with the OM that

she refused to do with her BH before her PA and now still

refuses to do those sex acts with her BH after D day.

This is a concern I understand. I think BSs who are focusing on their WS's physical appearance and how it changed (or on sex acts, for that matter) are focusing on the wrong thing, but I get it. We notice ALL of the differences in their behavior/appearance etc. after we've been betrayed, and then we have to set about wrapping our minds around all of it.

But here is the thing. This wasn't the only topic of this post. Because before any of that was even mentioned, we got this:

As a man I can overlook a small or no butt.

Also same with small breasts and still find a woman very

attractive.

I like breasts. However no matter how large a woman's breasts

are they can never compensate for being fat, over weight.

This does not mean women have to have visible abs to he hot.

To argue that this topic isn't about how attracted you are to your spouse, or how s/he "owes" you their attractiveness in whatever way you define that, is disingenuous. You literally opened with a discussion of all of the things you do and do not find attractive in a woman. The second half of the post could have stood alone, so why even introduce any of these details at all? They are irrelevant to the topic, IF the topic is truly just based on a discussion of "effort," not on how a WW "owes" you her attractiveness.

You can't claim that's not what the OP is about, when it's actually the intro to the post. You didn't just open the door to that discussion, you kicked it in and left it wide open.

Fellas please ! Caring about someones health just means caring about what they eat and how much they exercise . What the womans body looked like for the AP has zero to do with concern for her health and everything to do with her status as a sex object . And more importantly your status

Thats the point of all these threads and while its ok to have these selfish thoughts “ i want my spouse to act like the best sex object out there because its a reflection of who i am on the sexual totem pole” please dont dress up your coarse ( albeit relatable ) thoughts as if you are driven by altruism - at that point this is just you bullshitting yourself while we watch . Lets keep it honest .

I agree with siracha, this was never a true discussion about a WS's health vs. a sedentary lifestyle. If the only time the topic of healthy weight comes up is when you are called out for objectifying them for their weight, then the concern was never about health at all.

There was absolutely zero mention of weight as it pertains to health in the OP. It was only brought up after. Even in response to crazyblindsided, @oldtruck you concede that health should matter, and you briefly discuss how weight affects health, but then you immediately bring up looks again in that same reply.

There was a hell of a lot of discussion about "getting toned," "getting fit" and "looking hot" for the AP and not the BH, though.

From @oldtruck ONLY:

As a man I can overlook a small or no butt.

Also same with small breasts and still find a woman very

attractive.

I like breasts. However no matter how large a woman's breasts

are they can never compensate for being fat, over weight.

This does not mean women have to have visible abs to he hot.

it is not that she refuses to get fit for her BH,

it is that she got fit for her OM but refuses to get fit for her BH.

Though what you stated did not address that the WS worked

out before their PA being fit for their AP. Then letting

themselves go after D day and refusing to get fit for their BS.

how does a WW justify giving her BH a less

physically attractive version herself than the one that she gave

to her OM?

When a WW lets herself go after D day and refuses to get fit

again for her BH she is sending the message that her OM was

worth more than her BH because she was putting in the effort

going to the gym for her OM.

Here is a BH willing to do the work to recover his marriage,

show his WW that he still desires her. Yet this BH has to

accept a WW that refuses to be as fit for her BH as she was

willing to be fit for her OM.

Many BW response for from their personal view after D day,

is no man owns my body. They cannot see that a WW

should have to step up to the plate and give to their BH

as good as these WW gave to their OM.

WW hit the gym hard got abs, toned all over, groomed and

dressed to always look good during her PA.

Claiming she did it to get her ego stroked by her OM. How

does that make it ok for the WW to pack the weight back

on after Day an refuse to get back to the gym for her BH?

Should not the WW be providing the same visual motivation

that she gave to the OM to her BH?

The effort part is not hard to measure. WW dropped 20 lbs

for the OM.

The WW ate salads for lunch everyday. Gave up all junk

food and in between meal snacks.

The WW went to the GYM 5 days a week for 1 hour.

The WW groomed and dressed better.

A WW that lost weight and went to the GYM to look good

for her OM.

Now her BH wanting her to look that good for him as she did

for her OM is not fat shaming. That is a BH saying give me

as good as you gave the OM.

I do not advocate for a man or woman to change their

appearance just to get a relationship. Be the person that you

want to be.

However this has no connection to a WW that would hit the

gym tone up lose weight for her OM though this WW refuses

to do this for her BH during recovery.

A WW refusing to go to the gym get toned and lose weight

for her BH yet freely did so for her OM says she valued her

OM more than her BH.

The BH feels he is worth more than the OM. Being he is

worth more he should be treated as good if not better than the

WW treated the OM.

The WW went to the gym, ate healthy, got toned, lost weight,

looked great for the OM. WW freely gave all of this to the OM.

The WW cannot un fuck her OM though she can make

herself look as hot for her BH as she made herself look for

her OM. The BH is not asking for the WW to do the

impossible and look better than she did for her OM just

look as good for her BH.

How does the WW justify and expect her BH that he has to

accept she will be 10 to 20 lbs heavier then she was for her

OM?

How does the WW justify and expect her BH that he has to

accept that she gets into bed will her BH that he does not

get a wife with a body that is not as toned as it was for her

OM?

Every single one of these statements is about the WWs physical attractiveness, as well as how her BH perceived that attractiveness. Not a single one of these posts can be reasonably interpreted to be about their WW's health when it comes to weight. Sure, better health might be a welcome side effect of the actions she took to lose weight, but the focus is very clearly on weight as it pertains to the WW's attractiveness to her BH.

Buh, buh, bUTTTTT @oldtruck said this too:

As to be fit and toned everyone should try to do so. Improves

health, allows to perform recreational activities better.

Prevents bone loss, stronger bones, retain abilities in our

retirement years, and provides our spouses with a more

attractive partner.

As if bringing up how weight affects health after 33 posts about "getting fit" and "looking hot" makes us believe that it was ever about health especially when you finish that statement with how this also provides a spouse with a more attractive partner

Then he writes this:

A wife that goes to the gym at 60 can not look as good as when

she was 20 years old.

Though she will look a lot better at 60 by going to the gym

then not going to the gym.

Notice how even at 60, it's still about looks.

It's a wayward "effort", a cheating "effort", an insecure "effort", a sick "effort", a FALSE "effort". It's unsustainable... because it's done to please someone else. The same WW who loses 100 lbs. and runs off with her OM is going to put that weight back on when she's secure and comfortable again. The only way that doesn't happen is when/if she's doing it for herself and not as a means to achieving another goal.

For the life of me, I don't understand why anyone would want the sick, wayward version of their WS back.

THIS. All of this.

And just in case someone tries to say that this is only an angry, unintelligent BW viewpoint, here you go:

If the drive to losing weight was mostly for external affirmations it brings that's not a healthy mindset for any wayward. Craving those affirmations is part of what lead them down the road to the A. To get healthy they have to flip that motivation to doing this for themselves. Would you rather have a slim and thin WW but still weak mentally or one more secure with themselves and therefore a safer partner?

Effort isn't an unlimited resource. You likely found that out during the A as her efforts were diverted away from your relationship. Seems to me that effort is most importantly focused on making the wayward a safer partner and making your relationship stronger. Do you really want who your wayward was during the A? Not just the looks, but the complete package.

@grubs

Remember, though, that the A is a fantasy. It's easy to be at what one thinks is one's best for a few hours at a time. It's very difficult to be at one's best all day every day.

If one thinks about what is healthy in relationships and what makes relationships worthwhile and lasting, weight of the partners is pretty far down the list.

@sisoon

This reads like a very materialistic view of reconciliation. Give X, Get Y. Payment. Why would you want to repeat the patterns of infidelity with your partner?

@ForgettableDad

Three men on this thread who seem to understand what many women are getting at.

Nobody is saying that any person shouldn't want to look good, or lose weight, or dress up, or whatever. They are saying that the desire needs to come from within. The entire problem with waywardness is the insatiable need for external validation. Why keep putting the focus on external motivation when we all learned the hard way where that leads people?

ETA:

But if you're going to say, with total justification, that WS are weak, broken people with a mountain of work to do on their toxic thoughts, then it's unrealistic to expect they can also get/stay in shape at a very stressful time in their marriage. Do you want your spouse to focus their energy on maintaining an empty, attractive shell, the kind you were married to during the affair? Or do you want someone who is rebuilding themselves on the inside, fighting cultural messages that their marital value is tied to how much they weigh?

Just had to add that BSR, I wholeheartedly agree with all of this as well. It seems that some are far more focused on what is outside than what is inside.

Maybe because we as BSs feel that we already did focus on what was inside when we first got married - or at least we thought what we knew about our WSs “insides” - and now we don’t trust that what’s on the inside matters, because we already felt like we vetted for that and still got royally screwed. But just because our WSs hid their toxic, broken selves from us doesn’t negate the fact that the internal stuff is more important than the external. I would argue that it’s proof positive of exactly how important the internal is - the broken internals are what fucked everything up! So better to focus on ridding ourselves of all of that internal rot/decay than to slap a coat of paint on it and call it healed.

*Edited to fix some quotes/bolding that didn't go through in the first iteration*

[This message edited by HeHadADoubleLife at 7:47 PM, February 25th (Thursday)]

Thank you, HeHadADoubleLife

If the only reason for going to the gym is the satisfy, fulfill, gratify my husbands external need for validation then its a waste of my time and energy.

Be consistent please.

You took my quote totally out of context. You stated when can

a woman let age take it's toll on her looks.

My statement said she can look good at 60 and better at

60 if she was going to the gym.

This has nothing to do looking good for OM BS or herself.

Just the fact aging is a normal process and people can always

do things to improve their looks regardless of their age.

It’s absolutely about the time and effort put into the A.

And I don’t expect direct compensation for her A but I am damn sure not going to tolerate any sort of lesser treatment either.

My example is red week blowjobs. WW and AP would typically meet after work and often fuck in his truck. One fine day he wants to fuck but my wonderful wife is being visited by Aunt Flo. AP says “blowjob” and she obliged. Happened next month too. Guess who has gotten daily red week blowjobs since d day?

I typically cooked dinner while she was cheating. On a few occasions, the meal was ruined because “she got stuck at work”. I guess getting stuck has different meanings... Anyway, guess who has cooked since? Same for other housework. I told her if she has time to fuck another woman’s husband, she has time for more housework.

But time will always win out over going to the gym.

And in my later years i want to enjoy the last of my time on earth, not focus all of my energy on making my external self something my husband thinks he needs for validation.

You can't hide behind the vail of "health" when what you WANT is tit for tat. AP got this so i damn well better as well.

But for those BH's who try to R, the sense of "injustice" over the degree of effort the WW invested into baking those cakes for the AP, depending on the person, can be overcome if she chooses to invest a similar effort into doing something for the BH.

BTFG I get this. I am a BS who tried R for 9 months - I SO get this thought.

As I have said multiple times - EFFORT I get. No argument on that. From one of my earlier posts:

Do I agree that a WS *should* put 1000000% more effort into their spouse after dday than they put into their affair? Yes, I absolutely agree with that. And yes, said 'effort' can include many different things up to and including weight loss and sexual things.

Or baking cakes or whatever the 'thing' is. A BS has a right to ask for WHATEVER they need or want for R. Full fuckin stop.

My irritation with this whole thread is that a BODY is not a CAKE. A BODY is not owed. A BODY is not a thing for a BS to OWN.

IF a WS is simply putting in the EFFORT because they want the BS to stfu or keep the status quo or to make someone ELSE happy, then that IMHO is not. a. healthy. mindset. Seeking external validation is what led to an affair in the first place, so encouraging a WS to still seek external validation is not R'ing. It's just transferring the waywardness from an AP to a BS. Which yeah, might work for a while, or a lifetime. But it is still. not. addressing. the. wayward. thought. patterns that led to the affair the BS is now struggling to come to terms with.

You use a cake analogy - I use a building one. Let's say that you have faulty wiring that causes a fire. You put the fire out, replace and paint the drywall and put a picture over it. All fixed cus it looks pretty, right? But wait - you didn't fix the wire that caused the fire in the first place. So even though it looks pretty - that fire danger is still there. And maybe it never happens again. But it likely will.

I am damn sure not going to tolerate any sort of lesser treatment either.

Fair enough.

After your 3 year affair, with her friend,what does she now get,from you?

My example is red week blowjobs. WW and AP would typically meet after work and often fuck in his truck. One fine day he wants to fuck but my wonderful wife is being visited by Aunt Flo. AP says “blowjob” and she obliged. Happened next month too. Guess who has gotten daily red week blowjobs since d day?

I typically cooked dinner while she was cheating. On a few occasions, the meal was ruined because “she got stuck at work”. I guess getting stuck has different meanings... Anyway, guess who has cooked since? Same for other housework. I told her if she has time to fuck another woman’s husband, she has time for more housework.

How are you reciprocating? If memory serves, you're a revenge cheater, so just as wayward as your fWW. Isn't revenge cheating about evening the score. So, why wasn't the score settled? What is she getting out of this transactional marriage? I hope it's something good, because if not, I feel REALLY sorry for her.

Personally, I could never live with a score keeper, and I wouldn't expect anyone I actually loved to do so either.

[This message edited by ChamomileTea at 5:28 PM, February 25th (Thursday)]

don’t expect direct compensation for her A but I am damn sure not going to tolerate any sort of lesser treatment either.

I do understand the hurt feelings that watching a spouse--um, not try--can bring up, but in defense of what posters are saying, the BH don't ever seem to want compensation in the form of more text messages, more romantic notes or gestures, long phone calls, thoughtful gifts, or heart-to-heart conversations, all of which were most likely exchanged between the AP and the WS.

And that brings everything down to wanting compensation, but only in one way. Ever. Not sure how you are going to convince a bunch of multi-dimensional, talented, unique, intelligent, hard-working, fun, funny women that belaboring the same single subject--their bodies--over and over and over in multiple threads and from multiple posters is not an insult. And does not mean that they are only valuable for one reason. Good luck with that.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 6:16 PM, February 25th (Thursday)]

I do understand the hurt feelings that watching a spouse--um, not try--can bring up, but in defense of what posters are saying, the BH don't ever seem to want compensation in the form of more text messages, more romantic notes or gestures, long phone calls, thoughtful gifts, or heart-to-heart conversations, all of which were most likely exchanged between the AP and the WS.

And that brings everything down to wanting compensation, but only in one way. Ever. Not sure how you are going to convince a bunch of multi-dimensional, talented, unique, intelligent, hard-working, fun, funny women that belaboring the same single subject--their bodies--over and over and over in multiple threads and from multiple posters is not an insult. And does not mean that they are only valuable for one reason. Good luck with that.

Owningitnow, I used going to the gym as "an" as is "one"

example for providing just compensation. Just to simplify the

discussion. Unfortunately some people cannot separate the

it is my body defense for everything.

So Owningitnow, and others how valid is the WW response

to the scenarios written below?

Going out to restaurants, trips, are all over rated.

Honey (BH) I (WW) know this first hand. Believe me

we do not need to do these things.

BH why are you making me plan date nights, find fancy

restaurants, go on romantic trips. Are you trying to trigger

me and rub my affair with the OM in my face?

BH how ridiculous, immature you are by behaving, insisting,

I plan date nights, go to nice restaurants, go on romantic

trips with you just because I did those things with my OM.

Do you think that means I have to do them with you?

BH stop being unreasonable. Stop acting like a child.

[This message edited by oldtruck at 6:31 PM, February 25th (Thursday)]

I think its unhealthy to partake in anything that focuses on "payment", compensation, tit for tat and that perpetuates the mindset of doing for someone else something that should be done for ones self.

Also anything done to gain external validation is unhealthy.

I used going to the gym as "an" as is "one" example for providing just compensation

No offense, Oldtruck. I like you and do understand the pain you are speaking of, the pain of feeling like you are not important to your spouse. But your initial post and question felt and still feels like it was about the appearance of our bodies. Maybe the title of the thread gave me that impression? Not sure. So saying it's not and that we're making it about 'going to the gym' feels...bad. Don't make it seem like the women are "stuck on the body thing" when you actually put it on the body thing. Don't be like that. Be honest.

HHDL laid out several direct quotes, all about appearance and weight.

Then there is the title of your thread.

You can say it's about health, but your own words say otherwise.

The attempt to gaslight is failing.

Spectacularly.