SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

There's a long process where we "try" for R before arriving at it. What people keep telling me in myriad ways is that there is no "arrival", it's more like a constant state of trying. What I don't understand is why anyone would want that. As a BS, I surely don't. And if I were a WS, I can't even imagine.

I was one of those who spoke of R as an ongoing process, that there is no finish line or a place to spike the ball at the end.

Now I think the concept is fine as a way for some people to feel like they’re not rug sweeping — a method of moving forward without pretending the A didn’t happen.

I do mean that for SOME people, and I don’t think that’s what you’re advocating CT, to ignore the past.

I think you’re saying, there’s no reason to live there.

I agree.

I guess if someone asked me today if I was reconciled or not, and they had to have a definitive answer, I would say, ‘yes.’

Ultimately, betrayal was one of the more brutal traumas in my life, I’ve had others and likely to have more with whatever time remains.

In that sense, I suppose my R does have a finish line in that I put in the stack with the other Hellish experiences.

It’s the proverbial permanent scar.

Looking at the scar now and again works fine for me, but I’ll not be able to understand some members here being trapped forever in that worst moment — anymore than they can understand me or anyone else moving beyond it.

I've heard it described this way:

Guilt = I've *done* something bad.

Shame = I *am* a bad person.

Same. I feel a truly healed WS would be able to talk about their affair and accept it without being hurt by shame. In fact I think it's healthy. I feel the same about a reformed alcoholic, drug addict, or criminal.

This post does have me wondering if I am personally stuck. I'm wondering if rather than building a new marriage, I am expecting penance. My WS's affair was after a period of being selfish in our marriage, and also allocating his time and other resources to others outside the nuclear family. Am I expecting proof that he is dedicated to the marriage and won't screw over me or our children, or do I feel owed? If it's proof, then maybe I would allow certain behaviors after a period of time even though I don't believe I can accept them in our marriage now. I fully supported anything that my WS wanted because I wanted him to be happy. Yet I would not have done them or given them to myself because I felt I owed my family more.

The thinking behind not allowing something like the past adventure travel again is the selfishness, not that I'm worried my WS would be cheating again. He left me with all the responsibilities of parenting and household, and a few of his personal responsibilities too, while he did something dangerous and fun. I can't say what he was doing because it feels too identifying.

My WH has been extremely generous with time and money to his extended family and friends. I said yes. Now I tell him, "No. It's too much. You have to put your wife and children first and put your resources there." At times I feel like a gatekeeper for the family. I'm tired of it. After betrayal, I often suspect others of being users and only looking out for themselves.

Yet, my WH can not take back his selfishness and trips when our children were younger and in greater need of his presence and safety. I even feel that I might just flake out on that type of adventure in the future myself.

Am I asking too much? If I divorced my WH and dated another man, I wouldn't expect him to give me or my children his dedicated resources and time. I probably would stop dating him if he didn't have the time or attention for me. Mainly, I think it's that I don't feel I will ever have a nuclear family again if I divorce. I won't expect another man to think of my children as his. I can't see having a new family.

I am understanding waitedwaytoolong and others these days. It's possible I'm reaching a point where I wish to let go and just be on my own.

Oldwounds

I do mean that for SOME people, and I don’t think that’s what you’re advocating CT, to ignore the past.

I think you’re saying, there’s no reason to live there.

I agree.

You're exactly right. What's more though, is that I think if we find ourselves a bit stuck along the way, but still not ready to throw in the towel, that we can get a little more proactive. I'm not saying get way out of the comfort zone, but maybe just a little daily reminder that we choose where to plant our feet, that we're not trapped, that the past can never be changed.. things like that. Maybe an assessment of our goals and where we are in terms of reaching them, maybe a more uplifting and positive inner monologue. You know, stuff that's within our purview. Not to say that we shouldn't reassess the WS. I'm assuming one would do that first before declaring themselves "stuck". There's no point in doing R with a WS who's not up to snuff.

I am ashamed of several things I have done in my past. I am not a bad person and I have never lived in a shame spiral. My shame over things I wish I would have done differently motivates me to be my best person so as to not do things for which I do not feel shame in the future.

Shame is not inherently a bad thing.

There's a long process where we "try" for R before arriving at it. What people keep telling me in myriad ways is that there is no "arrival", it's more like a constant state of trying. What I don't understand is why anyone would want that. As a BS, I surely don't. And if I were a WS, I can't even imagine.

Agreed. If that's what R was, I'd want no part of it.

IMO, R morphs into M. There's no 'try.' R is just life with one's partner, resolving the issues that come up, and enjoying the rest of life to as great an extent possible. With a little luck, enjoyment increases over time. (Retirement is pretty nice. )

Initially, the issues are about the A(s) - asking questions, asking for and giving emotional support, rebuilding trust. Eventually, though, new day-to-day issues demand more energy than A issues do. You're back in your M, and you're involved in keeping the M going and keeping the M joyful.

If it's not going to be joyful (as joyful as circumstances allow, that is), why do it? We have to resolve all sorts of issues now, but they aren't related to the A. Resolving them still takes effort. It's work - but all relationships require work.

sisoon,

Do you feel like my issue is beyond the affair and that I am generally not happy or satisfied with my marriage?

I'm genuinely curious. That may be true.

humantrampoline

I'm wondering if rather than building a new marriage, I am expecting penance. My WS's affair was after a period of being selfish in our marriage, and also allocating his time and other resources to others outside the nuclear family. Am I expecting proof that he is dedicated to the marriage and won't screw over me or our children, or do I feel owed? If it's proof, then maybe I would allow certain behaviors after a period of time even though I don't believe I can accept them in our marriage now. I fully supported anything that my WS wanted because I wanted him to be happy. Yet I would not have done them or given them to myself because I felt I owed my family more.

Not sure what the activity might be, but it sounds like it was somewhat dangerous and maybe expensive. So yeah, it's understandable that you would view something like that as selfish. Not only are you home being the responsible parent, but if something happened, you'd have no relief as the ONE responsible single parent. Maybe instead of thinking of yourself as being hard on him or keeping him from doing something he wants to do, you're being a little too hard on yourself for having the expectation that if a person CHOOSES to start some kids and a family with someone, that they will do their utter damnest to BE THERE for that family. IOW, if WH wants to be a danger-mouse, he should have done that INSTEAD of the family thing. That way, you could have planned for someone who would put their money/time where their DNA was.

I can't speak for you, but sometimes when I'm mad about something that I'm doing, I just assume that the other guy is mad about it too. Is it possible that your expectation that your WH stay home and be involved is bothering you more than him? Given the history, you might feel like he's giving something up to be at home, but maybe he doesn't feel that way anymore?

I think the one tool which helped me the most to believe that my WH was sincere was this question:

"If he could change everything that happened, would he do it?"

And I know that sounds really simplistic and of course, there are tons of other factors which go into our "stay or go" decision. OF COURSE, any WS who wants R will claim that they would change it. But if we really dig in, and we consider all that we know about our WS, the good, the bad, the ugly, and if we can weigh all that and still say, "yeah, I believe he would", then we're getting in touch with what we really think.

You haven't shit-canned him yet... and you don't sound like a woman who can't take out the trash. There must be something of value you're still seeing in him, right?

Agreed with all @sisoon.

I am ashamed of several things I have done in my past. I am not a bad person and I have never lived in a shame spiral. My shame over things I wish I would have done differently motivates me to be my best person so as to not do things for which I do not feel shame in the future.

Shame is not inherently a bad thing.

Shame serves its purpose, that's true. That said, we're way past any purpose it might overtly serve. I don't need to see it and I don't want to see it. Although, it's as you point out, we all tend to remember things that have made us feel ashamed and then use that data to help inform our daily choices.

I am re-reading the posts on this thread...

ChamomileTea, thank you for starting this thread. And to all and I mean all that posted I thank you from my heart.

This by far, is the best thread for me as a former BS. All my of my fears, angst, joy, uncertainties, happiness as I am currently experiencing in my personal situation is mirrored in this thread. Wow!

I don't know what else I could add. Except that with my advancing age, I am in my late 60's...the reasons I chose to reunite with my husband are based more on practical matters, such as health, companionship and familiarity. Not finance. Though two retirement funds are more secure than one. And certainly not for love.

I care for my husband, but I do not love him dearly. Unlike in the past. This is one big change in me that I know to be true from the time I found out about his cheating. I suppose you would say that I am holding back to protect me. As some of you have noted in your posts.

I live kindly with him. Perhaps that is a sort of forgiveness? It seems to work for me.

Missed this earlier in the thread, sorry.

ChamomileTea

I think we have to take some responsibility for allowing the WS to dither if they are wasting YEARS, don't you? Maybe we feel like they'll come through and it's a good investment, but we do have CHOICE. We don't have to stand by and allow the dithering. Don't we have to take ownership of how we allowed our time to be spent?

Yes, absolutely. But again the trouble is how long each individual takes to process things, how long it takes to "get it", and translate that into action. Then on top of that you get the wrong therapist and they send you down a destructive rabbit hole of self-blame that you only come out of years later.

I think it's too much to expect a statute of limitations. But it's important to demand measurable progress until you achieve reconciliation or decide to throw in the towel.

I do have a theory for why a BS can get triggered years after they believed they were healed and then feel like the past has become present again. I think it has to do with memory storage during trauma. Have you ever tried EMDR?

Not to date. Back during the original event all our therapy was traditional relationship based IC and MC. Nobody even posed it as trauma event, let alone tie my response to older trauma. I can see that now and I'm hoping that simply facing the things that I rug-swept will deal with it.

I don't know. Like I said, I can't personally really accept the word "forgiveness" in reference to my fWH's betrayal. I call it "balancing the ledger" or "cleaning the slate" and maybe it amounts to the same thing. Maybe it doesn't.

Right, how do you forgive what you've always considered unforgivable? "How Can I Forgive You?" suggests "acceptance" as an alternative.

It seems to me that the slate can never be truly clean nor the scales balanced. But it's unhealthy to dwell forever on the imbalance. We need to work toward either accepting or forgiving that injustice to move on without unhealthy anger, bitterness, or resentment.

[This message edited by Seeking2Forgive at 8:10 AM, August 6th (Friday)]

I mean, if memory serves, you actually divorced your WS, correct? And still, WS's who have done all the work and "get it" are "unicorns"?

Do you find in the stories on SI that the percent of WS's that are able to reflect in their words, actions, thinking, and behaviors, a deep and authentic remorse, empathy, ownership, and dedication to do all that it takes, is more than a limited and small population? You may. My observation is that the vast majority of stories on SI suggests a common theme among WS's: rarely fully getting "it" and a constant battle to get the BS to believe that the WS view of getting it, is sufficient.

As to my story, true on both counts. D was a condition of R, and my fWW thought she got "it" far earlier than she really did. I know we all have various perspectives and projections from our personal experiences, but I would be comfortable in betting on the very much "not really getting it" more than "really getting it", for the majority of WS's referenced here on SI. Perhaps not quite literally, but very nearly as rare as unicorns.

After reading all of these pages, I have some thoughts...

First, CT, I definitely agree that there does come a point when the BS needs to decide to be all in or all out. Otherwise you are just stuck in limbo forever and no one will like that.

How R looks for everyone though, is going to be SO different. It's not only dependent on the work done by each person, but by their temperament, personality, level of trauma, etc.

I am 4 years post DDay 1. Two years post DDay 2 (no new affair, but false R due to the fact that my WH lied for those two years about having sex). Our emotional relationship is very firmly in what you would call a good R. In fact, we are very similar to what Strugglebus detailed with her marriage. We communicate very well, put each other first, have fun together, and generally make a great team. We love each other very much. HOWEVER my trauma response has been incredibly difficult to manage. After DDay 1 I was diagnosed wit PTSD. Triggers, physical manifestations, etc. After DDay 2, they have gotten worse and my IC at the time suggested CPTSD. Being gaslit for 2 years about your sex life by someone who has "recommitted" to you and spent two years "working" with you on making the marriage and family a priority, has altered me in ways that I think may be permanent. Unfortunately, this means this our physical relationship since DDay 2 is abysmal even though I DON'T WANT IT TO BE.

For me, "forgiveness" looks like not wanting to punish my partner. Which I have definitely come to. I acknowledge his work and his change. But I will never pretend to be "okay" to manage his feelings. I think perhaps that might be where we (and some others on this thread) differ from you. And perhaps the reason why is that your trauma response has calmed to the point where your triggers are very minor and can be put aside and forgotten. I can definitely see how that could be the case. For me, I have a ton of those kind of "triggers" (that are truly just something that reminds me of the affair, I reconcile that it actually did happen, and move on). Those triggers are different than a real (IMO) trigger. One that elicits a physical response or triggers an episode of anxiety or depression. I will give you an example.

Last week, I got an email from my WH (he was in the other room working). It was a screenshot of a LinkedIn message from a woman that he met in college when we were broken up for a semester. He never dated her (they were part of the same group that studied abroad but she went to a different college) and they keep in touch extremely loosely (think a Linked In message every few years and we exchange Christmas cards with her). She lives out of state and they haven't seen each since college 20 years ago. The screenshot asked if he was going to be in a certain town for a football game as she was going to be coming to that town to show her son the college. He responded no, but that perhaps if she was going, he should. She said too bad, I'm overdue to buy you a beer. End of message. He sent it to me about 1 minute after having that conversation. At first read, I thought "Oh, that's great that he's being transparent and thinking of me." Then, I thought, oh, that sentence about going where she is, doesn't read well. I know he didn't mean it suggestively, but it's not good boundaries IMO." Then, my trauma response started going. Adrenalin starts, and I'm remembering how his A started as a NJF situation. He jokes around with everyone, co-worker is attracted to him, takes everything he says as an invitation (she told him that she had a crush on his at first meeting - almost two years before making her move physically on a drunken work trip.) Then, I pondered whether or not to even say anything. After all, I didn't want HIM to feel as if he was being penalized for doing something right. Well, he walked into the room at that point. He knew something was wrong. Inquired. I halted, and then as calmly as possible explained what happened. We read his message together. He said "Oh, I didn't mean anything by that, and you know she is almost 10 years older than me." I said "Yes, but the woman you had sex was of zero threat to me looks wise either and you had no ill intentions, but because she liked you, she read into every word you said and look where that ended up." WH then said "that makes sense. I can see that. I'm giving myself a B for this interaction. Good on transparency but I'm a work in progress. Can I do anything for you right now?" Then he hugged me, my trauma response calmed, which allowed me to break into tears and let it out. He then asked me whatever it was he originally intended and left the room. All was great. He had no shame. I thanked him for his transparency and patience. I felt good for sharing. He felt good for comforting me through it.

So, long story short, do I go with every "trigger" no. But I do not shy away from sharing my feelings. And for what it's worth, the shame "spirals" are gone. Does he feel shame sometimes? Hell yes. But it doesn't bring him down into a spiral. It's a push to do and be a better human for him.

As far as the elephant of our f-ed up physical relationship, we both know that my trauma response is the problem. (Like GMC referred to, I also agree that everyone has and reacts to trauma very differently and healing those trauma injuries is truly a difficult and different journey for all.) I accept that it's my responsibility. I'm not punishing him. He knows why and accepts it. He doesn't like it, but he loves me and is deeply sorry for hurting me and our marriage, so he's patient. I do my part by continuing to find treatments, try new things, etc. That's how he knows it's not punishment for him.

Infidelity and betrayal trauma has far-reaching consequences. At this point, any changes in our marriage and behaviors are not punishments or demands (like no solo dinners with females and transparency with all things), but boundaries and acts of love and respect for ourselves, each other and our marriage. My WH is very proactive about identifying ways to help himself and me, and also feels free to communicate about any wants or needs he has. He's an equal member in our marriage and knows he's free to leave at any time, just like I am. We choose to be here, we are grateful for each other and and we've found a way that is working for us. There is no statute of limitations on trauma and its healing IMO, but I agree that there is a statute of limitations on self or spouse inflicted penance for the WS. Empathy has to return at some point or there is no hope for a marriage based on real love, which is what we both signed up for in the first place.

What TX1995 wrote is the perfect example of what I was trying to say. Her husband stood on her side. Didn’t get (very) defensive and had a discussion with her over the trigger. It’s the role he should be playing when his BW is feeling negative about something. It’s how he should do it if he were not a cheater and she were upset with something someone else did.

He helped his wife. It’s what he should want to do.

As for shame, TX claimed there wasn’t any shame. But I disagree and in doing so will answer CT’s question to me. Honestly I think shame will ALWAYS be there, whether the A or triggers are discussed or not. But it comes to a point where you live with that as part of the greater make up of who you are.

As another poster mentioned, I have shame about many things in my life even though I haven’t cheated. I think about the things I am ashamed about from my past every now and then. The bigger things more often. But that doesn’t keep me from living a happy life.

There are a couple of things my wife and I are ashamed we did to each other 20+ years ago. They weren’t directly infidelity related. But they showed poor judgement. Every now and then I think about the thing I did. I am still ashamed by it but I also think about what I learned from it and how I’ve change for the better from the guy who was capable of doing those things. Then I think about what caused me to do that and internally take inventory of the things it taught me and hopefully keep me from doing it again.

I believe your Husbands will always feel some level of shame for what they did. I don’t think discussing it when you feel the need adds to that shame. If they are truly changed and committed to the relationship it shouldn’t.

If it were me, I’d think to myself how shitty I was back then and work with my partner to discuss it calmly do she could get through what she was feeling at the moment like TX’s husband did.

That is how I view all this. You’re gonna have triggers. Some you may need to reach out on and some you won’t. Either way is good. If I were your WH, I’d want to know you felt comfortable bringing it up and I’d continuously want to show you I care and can help.

Notaboringwife

I care for my husband, but I do not love him dearly. Unlike in the past. This is one big change in me that I know to be true from the time I found out about his cheating. I suppose you would say that I am holding back to protect me. As some of you have noted in your posts.

You know, I don't feel nearly as giddy/romantic/in love with my fWH anymore, not like I did when we first started R. Here's the thing though... during the months (almost a year) leading up to DDay, my WH treated me horribly, like total shit. He was a real asshole and I don't remember having a single interchange with him at that time where he wasn't smart-mouthed or offensive. All I could think about was divorcing his ass, and right up until DDay, I felt nothing for him. After DDay though, like everyone here, I was a total mess. I was crushed, sick in my body and in my mind, wishing I had died before I ever knew what that kind of pain was like. I don't have to tell you guys, you know.

I'm beginning to think though that this is normal, that when our primary relationship is ripped away like that, our response is to feel very passionate about it, like we've never loved that WS more! I'm thinking that it's probably a totally normal reaction to the threat of losing our primary relationship. We see it in JFO a lot, people coming in, determined to keep their marriages going for the sake of love, but then a few months go by, and sometimes that love which was so motivating in the beginning hasn't survived.

These days, I'm of two minds on the subject. On the one hand, I really do believe that infidelity can kill the love we had for our spouse. On the other, sometimes our love is blocked by other things, like the rage I felt at my fWH's mistreatment of me. Six and a half years out, I love him, but like you, I'm a bit "meh" about it. My earlier experience in love was the passionate, "can't go on without him" kind. But now, if he were to up and leave, I feel really confident that I'd be okay with that. It's so much different than what it was. Maybe it's an illusion, and there's more going on underneath, I don't know. It's happened before. But it could be that the cost of infidelity, is the "can't go on without him" kind of love we knew in youth. Like a hand of poker, we've been "called" on that... and survived.

Seeking2Forgive

Agreed that there can't be a REAL "statue of limitations". The title is just to get us thinking about what's appropriate.

Also, after trying EMDR, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it if you have specific items that are still bothering you. I did read somewhere that it's best done as soon after the trauma as possible. And personally, I found that it worked better if I focused it pretty tightly, it worked better. It's an immersive therapy, so you have to be prepared to be emotional, but I wouldn't hesitate to recommend it. Nothing to lose that's not already lost, right?

It seems to me that the slate can never be truly clean nor the scales balanced. But it's unhealthy to dwell forever on the imbalance. We need to work toward either accepting or forgiving that injustice to move on without unhealthy anger, bitterness, or resentment.

This is what bugged me too. What my fWH did felt unforgivable. And yet, the idea of never cleaning the slate or continuing in the marriage with him in the one-down was unappealing to me. I'm fortunate that he's done enough that my accountant's trick worked, otherwise, I'd have eventually had to cut my losses and file for D. He did quite a lot to offset the ledger though, so I mentally "added" it all up and even though there's NOTHING a WS can do that will fix it, I felt like he had tried his hardest. So, that helped. In fact, maybe that's the key... to know that the WS would change it if they could and would work their hardest to fix it if that were possible. "Writing off the balance" after that doesn't seem so hard.

For me, "acceptance" is a separate issue. That's something which has to happen no matter what. R or D we still have to accept what happened. I resisted that for a long time because it seemed like accepting it meant that it was okay. But it's not okay, it was never okay, and it's never going to be okay. This thing happened... and it was NOT okay. And weirdly enough, THAT is what my form of acceptance currently looks like. My fWH betrayed me... and it was NOT okay. He can't change that though. And I can't change it. It happened. It didn't fall out of the sky like lightning "happens", but it was a series of events which can never be taken back. Those events are part of the history now, our history, my history. They happened... and they were NOT okay. I can't really explain why this form of acceptance works for me or how I can say to myself "not okay" without holding a grudge about it. That seems like a different issue inside my head. "Acceptance" for me isn't about the perpetrator, it's about the events and acknowledging their reality in the history of my life.

Not sure that makes sense, but it is what it is.

Not sure that makes sense, but it is what it is.

Makes sense to me CT.

We can accept that IT happened but we don’t ever have be okay with IT.

I’ll always hate the A and that era of existence. I’m good with a healthy hate of the pain caused, but I can also look at what or who is front of me today.

As to the reference of the loss of “can’t live without them” love I actually find that to be a good thing, as with the loss of the concept of blind trust.

Those ideas seem to be more trouble than they’re worth.

However, I do think being as vulnerable and as all is as we can be is what makes any romantic relationship worthy of our time and effort.

Betrayal does remind us how strong we can be and if we get to where we need to with healing — we will be fine.

I think as different as those R ideas are, they can both exist at the same time. We can aim for happy and KNOW how tough we are if things take another horrible turn.

[This message edited by Oldwounds at 3:58 PM, August 4th (Wednesday)]

ChamomileTea,

Every time I read here, I go away and think about it. Then I come back to write a reply, and I read more and think about it again.

having the expectation that if a person CHOOSES to start some kids and a family with someone, that they will do their utter damnest to BE THERE for that family. IOW, if WH wants to be a danger-mouse, he should have done that INSTEAD of the family thing. That way, you could have planned for someone who would put their money/time where their DNA was.

Well yes, but no. I originally didn't want children, partly because I think it is harder on and a disadvantage to women. I'm not looking for a sociological discussion; this was my personal belief. I let my husband know that before marriage, and we agreed on those terms. Then I decided he would be an equal partner, and we could have children.

What I'm saying is that I must be partly at fault for knowing his danger-mouse tendencies before agreeing to have children. Also I enabled that by saying ok to these activities. He knew I didn't like them, but I said ok.

The issue is still- when, if ever, is he absolved of those earlier behaviors? I don't mean to t/j here and maybe this doesn't belong on SI, but this is on the same level as the affair. There's the lack of regard for my safety and my children's safety and health.

Anyway, that's all I can say now. I am going to watch Danger Mouse cartoons on YouTube.

DIFM

You may. My observation is that the vast majority of stories on SI suggests a common theme among WS's: rarely fully getting "it" and a constant battle to get the BS to believe that the WS view of getting it, is sufficient.

As BS though, we get to decide what "getting it" means. We get to decide what's good enough for us. If we're expecting perfect, well.. most of us will be disappointed by that, won't we. Jesus was perfect. The rest of us just muddle along as best we can in various states of imperfection. The BS who wants perfect understanding of what s/he went through is likely to be disappointed. I didn't fully understand it myself until it happened to me. I thought I did. I thought I had great empathy. Turns out though that I was utterly clueless as to what my friends who were experiencing infidelity were going through. Of course, a truly remorseful WS can do quite a bit better than "clueless", but they're NOT going to be perfect. I don't bang my head up against the wall expecting perfect understanding and getting upset when it doesn't happen. I'd have to STILL be mad at myself for the crappy advice and support I've offered to friends and family in the past.

In other cases though, I think there are some WS's who aren't getting enough work done and BS's who still want the marriage badly enough not to hold them accountable for it.

As to my story, true on both counts. D was a condition of R...

What I'm curious about is whether the D "cleaned the slate" or if there was still the same kind of work people need to do in R?

TX1995

So, long story short, do I go with every "trigger" no. But I do not shy away from sharing my feelings.

No one is saying that BS's shouldn't talk about the things they need to talk about. I feel like I've said that several times already. Your situation is only 2 years out from DDay and this wasn't just a random trigger, it was an actual incident, whereby your WH was getting a social invitation from another woman. It's not like you're ten years down the pike, sitting around watching TV, notice a trigger, and then blurt out some casual "hey, remember that time when you fucked that troll and broke my heart?" BS's should talk when they need to. That's not a question.

Personally, I'm well past needing to talk about it, which I KNOW is hard for people to believe when they're going through it, because early on, it's ALL you can think about. I remember feeling like that, like nothing else was worth talking about. But weirdly, these days I just don't want to live in the past. I don't want to give some random trigger control of my day. And I can't prove it, but I do kind of think that the reason I rarely ever have any kind of trigger now is because I won't indulge it. I don't reward my brain for popping out random flotsam and jetsam I'm not looking for, and I no longer need reassurance from other people that I'm okay.

Stevesn

Honestly I think shame will ALWAYS be there, whether the A or triggers are discussed or not. But it comes to a point where you live with that as part of the greater make up of who you are.

Exactly. When shit needs to be worked out, obviously, the right thing to do is talk it out. But yeah, I think WS are real people and I don't believe their shame and embarrassment disappear in deference to remorse. I think that in situations where the need to talk is paramount, they're tolerating those feelings for the sake of the relationship, which is why I don't think our reminders should be casual once we're well down the path to healing.

humantrampolie, Alas, you know much better than I do if your issue is with your H's A, with his actions after the A (when he should be working to R), or with general dissatisfaction over your M.

What do you think? And what do you want to do - work to resolve issues or stop working? If you think you can resolve the issues, there's nothing wrong with working on them. If you don't think you can resolve the issues, or if you no longer want to work on issues with your H, ending your M is probably agood idea.

*****

The infidelity triggers that have hit me over the past few years have come from novels or TV shows/movies. Totally unexpected, nothing more intense than 'annoyance' - there really is life after being betrayed.

[This message edited by sisoon at 5:17 PM, August 4th (Wednesday)]