SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

The fact that she has been so open about it with her friends is perhaps the most baffling part. From what I have read, most cheaters seem to to want to hide it from everyone. Whether that's out of fear of getting caught or some residual shame or guilt surrounding their actions, I don't know.

My STBXW seems almost proud of her actions in a "you go girl" type of way. In fact, some of her coworkers have said as much. It seems really weird to me. She seems totally unconcerned by her reputation, although I think that would change once her family finds out. She could at least save some face before them with the polygraph, I suppose. Maybe I should put out her transcripts and let people decide for themselves!

She says in her text messages to AP, that she thought she would feel guilty, but doesn't - at all. I have read (and re-read) these messages, and see no way that she could maintain this fiction. But whatever, the very fact that she is texting someone like this is bad enough, as my therapist pointed out.

However, she maintains that a relationship online like this is not actually a relationship. Bizarre way of thinking to me, especially since she has a personal history with this man and has met up with him three times. Adults don't build up sexual tension like that via text and not fuck when they have the chance. Totally unbelievable.

I alternate between anger and rage and extreme sadness. And it is killing me. I like to barbell train and have been doing it seriously for three - 4 years since leaving the Army. I stopped altogether for about three weeks because it is extremely stressful work and really depends on good sleep and nutrition, which just isn't there right now. I have tried to get back to it over the last week or so, but find that I just am not recovering enough to carry on with my regular workouts. I need to modify my program or find something else to do in the interim.

Barbells are so good to get out some pent up angry energy, but I am going to grind myself down and end up injured if I can't manage the recovery.

but I am going to grind myself down and end up injured if I can't manage the recovery.

This goes for two things, your physical self with the barbells and your mental health as well.

Expose her to her parents BEFORE she spins the narrative to her story. Do not warn her, just do it.

OP - you seem hung up on what she is telling people and try to rationalize her actions in your head. In my view and based on what you posted, you know enough and you know her lies. Does it getting you anywhere spending more time analyzing her motives?

A few page ago, you posted you are done with her. What are your plans and next steps to get out of infidelity?

Best of luck.

Admittedly I am hung up on what she is able to tell people. I probably shouldn't be. I hate the fact that she is going to be able to spin this narrative - to her family especially - that she didn't cheat because it "wasn't" physical. Although, I am sure that many of them would still consider what she did, even if they do buy that it wasn't a physical affair, to be a pretty awful thing.

I do have a lawyer on retainer and had my first actual meeting with him on Friday. He is emailing me a document this week to lay out the documents and information he needs to have sent to him to begin drafting a separation agreement. He prefers this route as it is less confrontational (better for the kids) and ultimately less expensive (to my benefit as I am the lower income earner).

Just biding my time until I can get these things into place, and trying to fake nice to keep her off my back and maintain some degree of harmony in the home for the sake of the kids. At the cost of my sanity though, because faking it is extremely difficult for me.

Your wife is clueless as to what constitutes monogamy. And infidelity. There is emotional infidelity, financial infidelity, sexual infidelity and more.

The poi t is I’m sorry your wife doesn’t want to accept the affair occurred. My experience is that if the cheater won’t admit to an emotional affair then most likely they will cheat again. Because they don’t see anything wrong with their behavior.

Sorry she’s so clueless about this.

Everything you’ve posted concludes the A was physical. Not sure why you are now assuming it was an EA only?

No, not my claim at all. I know it was physical, but she will not admit to that. She will admit to "online" fantasy only. She makes the claim that it is no different than pornography. I don't accept that as with porn you are not really interacting with another person, much less someone you actually know and have met up with.

Heck, she won't even admit to an emotional affair because she claims they do not exist. She makes the claim that an online affair does not constitute a relationship, not me.

Sounds a lot like my ex. She had a few divorced friends and family members who were certainly in the "you go girl" mentality and loved being supportive of each others lies. I think some believed that only PIV was actually cheating .

At some point you realize the person you thought you married no longer exists and all you have to interact with is a toxic shell. Divorce and everything related to it is horrible, but sometimes it is the best thing. You may eventually wonder why you didn't do it earlier!

Admittedly I am hung up on what she is able to tell people. I probably shouldn't be. I hate the fact that she is going to be able to spin this narrative - to her family especially - that she didn't cheat because it "wasn't" physical. Although, I am sure that many of them would still consider what she did, even if they do buy that it wasn't a physical affair, to be a pretty awful thing.

You are not like her. That’s why you can’t understand. You know the score and is all you need to know.

You could never make her ‘get it’. Staying hung up on this will keep you in limbo.

Work on moving on.

I think you’re overly focused on what your WW will or won’t admit to versus the concrete evidence you have in hand.
She had sex with another man, she’s unremorseful, and plans to continue the A once the dust has settled.

Your plan to D is solid, but the way you describe things you sound a bit torn and guilty for moving to D because your WW will not admit to anything.

My feelings of guilt originate solely in the fact that we have three young children (11,8,5).

This is a fact that she has started to use against me. She took the kids last weekend after I argued with her over the polygraph and left for a couple hours.

She texted me during this time called me fucking moron and said I took the kids so you could see what it’s like to be without your family.

Wonder why I am feeling a little manipulated right now?

Go to a lawyer and get a custody agreement in place. Now!!

Any person who uses their kids as a pawn will stoop to the lowest level to "win".

You are dealing with a being you no longer know.

Hard 180. Now!!

And get a lawyer b/c she has just upped her game against you.

She texted me during this time called me fucking moron and said I took the kids so you could see what it’s like to be without your family.

This is the lowest of the low in my opinion. If you still have any doubts of what your next steps should be, the above should crystalize for you. Keep a VAR with you at all times, talk to your lawyer about your rights, document EVERYTHING should you needed for the D.

Best of luck.

Wonder why I am feeling a little manipulated right now?

The reason you're feeling that way is because you ARE being manipulated!

Stop letting her manipulate you. File ASAP, get the paperwork going and stop responding to her. It's time to stand up for yourself.

I have serious doubts about everything regarding the poly in your thread.
This site is not only about the posters sharing their stories but also for those that read to learn from others. That is the main reason for this post. It’s coming from a former law enforcement officer (as is another post on this thread regarding the poly) who has experience in how polys are used in that environment.

Polys have their problems and quirks. They are definitely not 100% reliable. However contrary to common belief – they are often admissible in court but only if both parties agree. If I am a prosecutor that is confident enough in my evidence to press charges, why risk the suspect passing a poly? If I’m a defendant why risk a poly if the evidence is weak? If I’m guilty why risk a poly to add to the evidence?

It's been shown again and again that people can beat a poly. In test environments. Where there is nothing more at risk than failing the test. Creating real-life scenarios can be hard, like where your freedom or marriage or wealth can be at risk if you fail. It’s also been shown that it generally takes several tries and/or good access to a poly or an operator to learn exactly what to do to fail. Popping a pill will generally not do the trick.

It’s also been shown that sociopaths or people with extremely low morals can pass a test. After all – they don’t discern right or wrong and it’s the physical reaction to that the poly measures. It’s enough that people put low value on what’s being measured, as is theorized the spy Ames did. He didn’t put much value in patriotism or loyalty, enabling him to semi-pass two poly-tests (with inconclusive responses in both though).

It's also a known factor that the operator is the key factor in a poly. You want an operator that has been doing this for law-enforcement and big companies. You definitely do not want someone that’s doing this at the mall and has a shingle outside his door. A good operator will also recognize all the symptoms of someone cheating – including the supposed tack-in-shoe and sedatives. Plus the questions will be a lot better worded than the ones shared on this thread. Cost isn’t really the big issue – 200 out the window is a total loss of money, while 2000 for something definite can be of value.

Finally – in regard to this story – the timing for a poly wasn’t correct IMHO. A poly should be something to establish a baseline more than to establish truth per se. You have evidence in the spades indicating your wife is cheating. A poly – passed or failed – at this moment isn’t really going to do much. She passes (like she did) and all the other evidence can be swept away. She fails and it can all be excused to some pseudo-science. A poly has a great role when the WS and BS have had it out and both think they might have some base to work from. At that point a poly can add the extra assurance to the BS that the WS is being honest.

I think it’s 100% right to completely dismiss anything and everything about a poly in your thread. It has no relevance whatsoever to your WW story or how this will go on.

But then…
There is no need for the poly.

Ask around and many posters here will insist I’m extremely pro-reconciliation. Have even been called out both on this site and another for being too pro-reconciliation. Personally I don’t see it that way. I think reconciliation is possible if certain factors are in place. For those that think R isn’t ever possible that’s being "pro-reconciliation".
But I also think it isn’t possible if those factors are missing.

I have seldom – if ever – read a story where so many factors making R possible are missing as this one.
It would require an immense change from your wife for anything other than divorce not only the best possible good outcome for you but also the ONLY possible outcome.

As far as divorce is concerned then the only issue infidelity MIGHT have been if it impacts divorce decisions in any way or form. It seldom does. But if your attorney tells you it impacts child-support or alimony or anything like that then your next question is to him and is about what form of proof you need. Chances are nothing you already have will do it.

I wouldn’t bother on the proof. Fact is IF you divorce then 2-3 years from now the why won’t matter. Nobody will be asking and you will be just as divorced and (hopefully) just as emotionally detached. Her parents? Hopefully you will have a friendly and amicable relationship with them as your kids’ grandparents. That’s it. You won’t be on their Thanksgiving dinner guest-list. Friends? Some will remain with her, some with you, some will simply disappear. Some will believe her and think you are nuts; some will believe her and think she’s a harlot. Most won’t really care beyond being (or not being) your friend. Divorce is the termination of a relationship rather than some quasi-marriage.

She texted me during this time called me fucking moron and said I took the kids so you could see what it’s like to be without your family.

Please save that text and any communication with her. When it comes to child custody, it could be useful to you.

Also be mindful of what you send your STBXWW, text, emails etc.. write it as if a judge would read it.

The courts don’t care why you divorce, they only care about the wellbeing of your children. She wants to use your children as weapons, it’s not in their best interest and the court will see that.

[This message edited by ShutterHappy at 3:12 PM, Monday, August 30th]

So you have access to print out more damning information to write a book. Why have you not done this?

Why?

I believe he's gathering information through 'not so valid' means so it might come back to haunt him. I think you need to consult with your lawyer on which evidences are fine and which are not.

Evidence is a moot point here. Canada is no-fault divorce. Actually you can use adultery in a certain province I may or may not live in, but my lawyers strongly advises against it because of the standard of the proof required - to say nothing of the means by which it is acquired - and the fact that it tends to lead to highly conflictual litigious divorce which is both expensive and not good for the kids.

Around the time my STBXWH was diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder & external validation addiction I was scrambling to figure him out, his whys, because his behavior made no sense to me. My STBXWH behavior wasn't just double-faced it was 'depending on whom he was talking to' behavior. This lead me down the wrong path (for me) of reading up about 'high self monitors and attention seeking'.

The way you've written your confusion over the way your wife chops and changes her story depending on the person she is talking to reminds me of this so much, 'high self monitors' who act this way for attention. Plug into google 'high self monitors and attention seeking' and have a read, see if this makes some sense, I could be wrong because IDK her but from what you've written it does seem like she is doing this.

Similar to high school kids who try to impress the cool kids by bullying the uncool kids in front of them or brag about cheating on tests or skipping classes etc etc high self monitors gauge what people they like like and adjust their personality and behaviors to suit to get positive attention from them. It's not a personality disorder as far as I read, just selfish behavior of those who love to be "in the cool crowd" (cool crowd being objective of course.) It could well be that your WW is so selfish that she likes the attention of these horrible "friends" of hers and that juicy gossip and "naughty girl" behavior gets their attention and so your WW brags to them about her affair for brownie points with these people, joking about keeping you in the dark etc because that's "naughty girl" behavior that they lap up.

Her high self monitoring for attention behavior also demonstrates (other than the affair) that she has completely checked out of the M, impressing others is more important, worth more effort, than giving it to you or the M. She is also touching on some of Gottman's four horsemen (Criticism, Contempt, Defensiveness, and Stonewalling - Gottman says a M can not survive when one or more of the "four horsemen" arrive in the M.)

It's a good thing you're breaking free of this septic tank of a WW, how dare she, my heart goes out to you, I know you wanted the M but what you want isn't possible with this vulture WW. Like other SI members I've been so furious for you, you've been dealt some extra layers of unfairness with that faulty poly. Over on the divorce/separation forum there is a pinned thread called 'fear vs reality', please read through it all, it's validating but also helps booster confidence when fear of the unknowns become overwhelming.

Best wishes (((reddy)))

[This message edited by LostInHisFog at 2:21 AM, Tuesday, August 31st]