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Newest Member: Crushedafter46years

Reconciliation :
16 months past DDay and now its Flatlined

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M1965 ( member #57009) posted at 4:00 AM on Wednesday, September 14th, 2022

p12241342,

At the risk of appearing brutal, I suggest a 180 degree turn in your thinking.

Where you say this:

I just think that now she has experienced some thing with some one else, how can she ever look at me being enough again.

How about asking her for her suggestions about why and how after what she has done, you can feel like she is enough for you?

And for this:

How can she want us as much as I do when she give it away.

How about asking her why and how she thinks she can can be enough for you after she gave it away?

You are trying to analyze this factually, as if you are on trial, trying to second guess her, but you have nothing to question or justify about yourself. Your wife has to justify why she is enough for you to continue the marriage, not whether you are 'enough' for her. The OM was not superior; he was just different. Some random opportunist who chanced his arm and got lucky. If your wife wanted to be with him, she could have left and chased him down the road. She did not do that, so why would you think that that being with him would be preferable in her mind to being with you?

More than that, why are you worried about what she thinks? Take a step back from worrying about what she wants, and think about what you want, and whether she measures up to that. You are the person in control of the direction that your future will take, and your wife has to rely on you about whether or not you take her with you.

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RocketRaccoon ( member #54620) posted at 6:12 AM on Wednesday, September 14th, 2022

My head is messed up as i dont feel safe. I thin she is trying to want to be with me. I felt like she wanted us before. But now it feels like she is just trying.


You posted up possible reasons why you are feeling this way:

When i talk to her about them she says that nothing she does is good enough and I'm always criticising, but I'm not.Im just saying how I feel. because I want them things back. But them things only made me feel like that did because they were effortless. If she has to be told to do them its not the same.

Its like she is fine talking about certain things in the affair, my feelings but it seems that when i drill her on her feelings and hows feelings things turn and it feels like she clams up.

She is just saying more and more when we argue she cant do it and she is tired of the way we are. She says she is p!ssed off. Because of what she has done to us and our family.

All her reactions to you still scream of guilt, as she is looking inwards. She is still positioning herself as the victim.
- Oh poor me, what have I done?
- Look at what I have lost, and all the hard work I have to do to get what I had back.
- The work is so hard on me, I don't know how much longer I can do it for.
- Look at how I am suffering, even though I had caused the suffering.

If she has remorse, then the actions of the WS would be more empathic. Reactions would be that they will work at regaining the trust and respect from their BS. To regain what they discarded so effortlessly.
- My BS has been hurt by my actions, how can I help BS with their pain?
- I have broken the trust that my BS granted me, and it is on me to rebuild what was gifted to me.
- I disrespected with my words and actions. I will have to show BS that I respect them with words, and more importantly through my actions.
- The healing will take time, and I will prioritize my BS's needs over mine until BS is healed.
- I caused the suffering, and will need to help heal those whom my actions caused to suffer.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Your WS could also be in a state of fatigue. Yes, she caused it, but she is still human. Humans cannot carry loads 24/7 over an extended length of time.

One way of reducing this, is to focus on yourself, and not depend on the WS to carry you through your own healing. Yes, the WS can assist the BS, but the BS should not depend on the WS for the BS's own healing.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A possible reason for your WW not wanting to discuss her feeling with you could be that she is feeling deep shame for what she did. This is a good sign, as it indicates that the WS is recognises that they are the cause of the destruction.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As others have posted, perhaps you are hindering your own healing by looking at things the wrong way. That she is still the Prize.

A Prize is something that needs to be won. Something that is valued.

So, are YOU the Prize (hint: Yes), or is your WS the Prize (Hint: Hmmmm.... verdict is still out on this one, has the WS proven themselves to be a Prize?)?

You cannot cure stupid

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Luna10 ( member #60888) posted at 4:57 PM on Thursday, September 15th, 2022

I can tell you that when posters here used to tell me to focus more on myself and less on my WH, I couldn’t understand what they meant and I kept dismissing it. It was obviously about him as he was the one that cheated.

Naturally I felt that everything was circling around to what my WH felt and thought: is he still attracted to me physically, am I boring him, is he still happy with me, how can he claim he loves me when he cheated on me, how can he claim we had a happy marriage when he did what he did, why was I not enough FOR HIM?

Everything was about him, what he thought and what he felt. It’s normal.

Gradually though, I won’t lie I’m a slow learner, about the third year post dday, I was pushed into thinking about myself, who I am, my own growth. It was all triggered by me losing my steady comfortable job, which meant that in order to get and keep a new job I needed to force myself into listing my skills, my strengths, and who I was, what was my value.

About the same time I started exercising which gave me an additional motivation, physically I was feeling pretty fit, career wise I went for a promotion, then another promotion till I got to Senior level where I am now.

I kept challenging myself in various areas, initially because I wanted to keep myself busy and distracted from all the affair thoughts, it was fair to say that it was becoming debilitating, 3 years of intense affair talk, affair thoughts, and later on because I truly decided I want to actively and constantly grow, it gives me a type of personal satisfaction that I don’t get anywhere else.

The moment the focus shifted from my WH to myself, that was the moment when my true healing started. My self esteem grew with every adversity I overcame. Lost my job? I’ll get a promotion even if in the background I am a crying mess. And then another one. Got the job, I’ll perform amazingly even if my brain wanted to constantly shout that I was worthless. Oh look, I can run 5k. Now I can run 10k. I can bake amazing cakes. (Most recently I started painting and I’m constantly learning new techniques). I can cry but I can also laugh and have fun. I love completely, I’m loyal and a good wife as I wasn’t the one that cheated. Not even when my marriage was actually in ruins, a justification used by many cheaters.

You get the idea. I became my own cheerleader no matter how cliche that sounds. Not because my WH wasn’t my cheerleader, but because no matter how many times he would tell me I’m beautiful, I’m sexy, I’m clever, I’m fun, I would not believe it, he cheated on me. So unless I believed those things about myself, how could I believe those things coming from my cheating husband’s mouth?

Now once you believe those things because you demonstrated to yourself that is the case, you don’t actually need your WS to repeat "I am attracted to you/I do love you/I am happy with you". First because hey, you KNOW you are all those things it’s suddenly so obvious that your WS is lucky you gave them another chance, secondly because if they are too blind to see what a great person you are then it is their loss, you ARE a great person anyway, with or without them.

One thing I would say though: my WH was by then completely supportive working on his own growth, IC, exercising, discovering his whys, we discussed the affair and our feelings around it without any limitations until it naturally dissipated into the distance. He didn’t dare giving me any ultimatums, I wasn’t stupid anyway, I knew he had the same right to exit this marriage as I did, but if he would have actually said so, if he would have wavered even a moment, when he saw the colossal effort I was putting in, I don’t think I could have stayed with him with that threat above my head.

So this is a process of course, you’re not there yet. If you can try shifting your focus from your WS to yourself it would benefit you greatly either way, no matter what the outcome of your marriage is.

Dday - 27th September 2017

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 p12241342 (original poster member #79267) posted at 3:30 PM on Friday, September 16th, 2022

Thank you everyone for taking the time to reply.

I think I'm have a bit of a down time at the moment. As well as feeling flat it feels like there is a disconnection from my side anyway. My wife says she doesn't feel that way.

Even after 16 months post dday I still don't believe I'm getting the truth, but at this stage it feels like her word against mine. I have no proof that she is lying but it just doesn't seem logical. I understand about projection but things she is saying aren't true is just her brushing things under the carpet.

When I bring this up she says she has given me the truth but I wont accept it and I wont listen.

I think there will be a point where I have to accept that thats her version of the truth and I believe she is still lying to me.

I have chose to stay with her so I have to accept what she is saying. Because her version is not changing.

But it just feels like she is taking me for a fool when I ask why and she just replies with she was stupid. Its was her mistake and she is sorry.

She takes full responsibility.

But then when I ask why, she says she was stupid. I ask her to explain and she cant. She just says she knows it was wrong but it happened and there is no turning back time. If she could she would. She see's everything she has done and swears that it will never happen again.

I have heard it so many times that it just feels like words to me now. It feels like she is saying what I need her to say.

She says she hates herself and hates her AP for putting us and our family in this mess. She wishes it hadn't have happened and is the biggest mistake of her life. Yet when i ask her why and if she wanted him she says no.

How can she not have wanted him at the the time but go out every night and see him, sleep with him and constantly be in communication with him.

Her words feel empty and just like words with no substance.

Did anyone else feel this way

[This message edited by p12241342 at 3:31 PM, Friday, September 16th]

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The1stWife ( member #58832) posted at 4:13 PM on Friday, September 16th, 2022

The moment the focus shifted from my WH to myself, that was the moment when my true healing started. My self esteem grew with every adversity I overcame.

This is what helped me most of all. Healing myself.

I watched a YouTube video by Will Smith called Fault vs Responsibility. In the video he talks about how things happen and we have 2 choices - stay stuck in it or heal ourselves.

I often use the analogy here that you are in a car accident and break your leg. It wasn’t your fault. But it’s your responsibility to heal your leg and go to therapy and get as close to 100% healed as possible.

Your wife can only answer so many questions and try to repair the damage to a certain extent. But if you cannot accept her efforts and heal your broken heart, NOTHING she does in the next 30 years will make a difference. You will not have changed or accepted or healed.

No betrayed spouse EVER feels they got the full truth or all the answers. I know I didn’t. But it doesn’t matter. That is who my H is - a coward. Too cowardly to admit things b/c now he fears I will leave him. He won’t admit things I have known for years. But that’s his issue. Not mine.

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled.

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 p12241342 (original poster member #79267) posted at 4:47 PM on Friday, September 16th, 2022

Thats one of the problems I have.

How do you draw the very fine line between accepting what they are saying and rug sweeping if you don't believe whats being said.

Im accused of not listening to what she is saying and not understanding. Im sorry but I don't understand an affair.

The words that she was stupid, she is sorry has no substance.

Do we really just rug sweep and accept what she is saying. Thats even if she is rug sweeping. there is always a chance that she is telling the truth.

But how do you trust some one that proves they are a lying, cheating, disloyal spouse.

I suppose it just takes time to rebuild

But i cant help thinking its all just words with out substance

[This message edited by p12241342 at 4:49 PM, Friday, September 16th]

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sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 5:13 PM on Friday, September 16th, 2022

What does your gut say? At 16 months out, part of me was very uncertain about believing what my W said, but part of me believed she had become honest on d-day.

How can she not have wanted him at the the time but go out every night and see him, sleep with him and constantly be in communication with him.

Most of us do at least some self-sabotage. WSes as a group are more fucked up than the norm, and it therefore makes sense to me that they do more self-sabotage than most people. It makes sense to me that she could have not wanted to be with him but was.

Her words feel empty and just like words with no substance.

It took me 2 years to feel comfortable believing what my W said.

That's my experience, not yours or anyone else's. That's why I led this post with 'What does your gut say?'

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

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 p12241342 (original poster member #79267) posted at 5:20 PM on Friday, September 16th, 2022

@sisoon

Thank you for your response.

Im scared to trust my gut because it may be being lead by my head and not my heart. Its very confusing.

Im very much in the frame of mind now that she is doing everything she can to heal the mess that she has caused. Everything she is doing shows me that she can be trusted and even though she understands I don't trust her right now she wants me to trust her going forward and is trying to show me that i can try and have faith in her again.

Im just worried that she is lying to me saying she didn't want her AP even at the time of the affair. But to me that seems impossible.

Then thats triggers me to think. What else is she lying about.

I think she has said she loves me, she was stupid and its the biggest mistake of her life so many times they do just seem like words now.

Will them words ever mean anything to me again. Because i do get a nice feeling inside when she says that she loves me. But at times it feels a little fake.

I just cant get out my head that she says she didn't want her AP and didn't have feelings for him. yet she stands by the fact they had a laugh, they had fun and he made her feel good. But then she says but she hates what she has done and wish it hadn't have happened. She states that she doesn't think of it positively, yet she is telling me how good it made her feel and how she had a laugh.

A laugh at my expense

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The1stWife ( member #58832) posted at 9:47 PM on Friday, September 16th, 2022

Rug sweeping is when there is no talk of the affair and then it’s never brought up again.

What you are facing is trying to accept her answers as the truth when you don’t believe them to be true.

I don’t know how you face that. I just know I did. I came to terms with my choice - accept or D.

She’s most likely not going to change her story. So you accept her answer or you don’t.

If you do, you know in your mind she’s dishonest. But you can live with it.

If you cannot accept it, then you will remain perpetually unhappy. And then maybe R is not for you.

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled.

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Luna10 ( member #60888) posted at 3:41 PM on Saturday, September 17th, 2022

I think you are stuck in semantics, if she wanted to be with the AP or not at the time of the affair, what she felt etc.

For me it became clear when my WH and his AP started throwing mud at each other (that’s another story for another day) that I will never know what they thought or felt at the time. For example WH said he didn’t ever consider leaving us and our family whilst the AP claimed he said he’s staying for the kids.

The truth was probably somewhere in the middle. I had to accept that I know everything there was to be known when I timeline’ed the facts: I knew everything that was factually correct (and of that I’m certain due to certain circumstances). I knew where, when and how. Further than that it was just a moment in time and the interpretation of two people. Do I believe my WH said he only stays for the kids and I’m not a nice wife? Yeah I do, I understood affair dynamics and I knew he did a lot of lying, to me, to his AP and even to himself. He always wanted to be the good person, how could he have looked at himself in the mirror if he didn’t create a narrative where I was the bad guy?

So as hard as it sounds, as unfair as it sounds, you will never know for sure what your WS wanted, felt and said during the affair. At best you have all the factual information and some insight into the other areas. You’re a smart guy, imagine having an exciting affair now and you’ll understand all the dynamics behind it.

What matters is the now. If she wanted to be with him she’d have left (unless of course you know for a fact that she did want to leave and he didn’t want to be with her).

Focusing on yourself does not mean rug sweeping and not addressing your concerns with your WS. For example, 5 years later, I’m still addressing triggers I may experience due to other unexpected events in my life. I do mention the A and so does my WH. He still apologises occasionally during moments when he feels grateful for the life we have and wants to tell me how happy he is I gave him a chance.

Focusing on how I felt didn’t mean we did not discuss the affair anymore. It meant that I dealt with it from the perspective of how I felt rather than how WS felt. So for example I’d have a low moment and say "I can’t believe I was focusing on supporting our kids through life changing exams at the time and you decided to have an affair". And we would discuss it from that perspective. Perhaps not the best example but you get what I mean. I made my own assumptions about what WS and Ow felt and said during the A and moved on. I know for example ow wanted to meet my daughter who was 10 at the time (she got theatre tickets for her and her two kids and my WS and my daughter, they were meant to pretend they "bumped" into each other) so I lost my shit and told him how horrible he must have painted our marriage if she concluded that somehow my WS would randomly go "hey, I’m taking dd to the theatre without you".

I didn’t buy the "I always loved you" shit he tried to sell me although he claimed so. I shut it down by telling him "your idea of love needs to be dealt with with your IC because no sane person can think they love their spouse (and their kids for that matter) and set off to destroy their lives" and he stopped claiming that.

So you see what I mean? I think you need less of "what did you feel during the affair? Did you want to be with him?" conversations and more of the processing the actual pain of her actions whilst you also set on your own healing and growth path.

But as I said, being a slow learner, it took me about 3 years to understand that. I was also obsessed with what was said, what was felt and so on.

Dday - 27th September 2017

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Luna10 ( member #60888) posted at 4:02 PM on Saturday, September 17th, 2022

Im just worried that she is lying to me saying she didn't want her AP even at the time of the affair. But to me that seems impossible.

One more thing: you are allowed to draw your own conclusions and call her on her shit. Above it’s a lie. Nobody sets off to screw another person without "wanting" them. Now you have to define want.

Do you mean desire? I’m sure as hell that sex with the AP in my WS’ case was hot AF. Illicite sex is hot. It doesn’t have to be good (I’m undecided on how good it actually was and frankly I don’t care) but it’s hot, it’s hidden, it’s forbidden and there’s a lot of planning and foreplay going into it.

Do you mean wanting to be with him? Yup, they wanted to be with the AP because think about it, there are no conversations about bills, taking the rubbish out, cleaning the house, raising the kids and disagreeing on their upbringing, waking up with a stinky breath or taking a poop, shared finances and so on and so forth. In affair land you’re as free as it gets and it is all amazing.

But when it all becomes reality and the bubble bursts things change, perception changes, they suddenly realise the cost of it all. Not just financial although that matters too, but the cost the BS took, they never considered that, the cost to their own life, their own kids, their FOO and their own mental health. And for what? For a new person that they don’t even know in reality, affairs are based on lies, both AP lie to each other in order to keep the validation coming.

So I think it’s time for you to draw your own conclusions and tell your WS to cut the crap: of course she wanted to be with him and for that matter she should stop saying she didn’t because no BS wants to hear their life got blown up because their cheating spouse was slightly bored. Gee thanks, so you went and opened your legs for a stranger just because… why not? So if she truly wants to face who she is she should investigate exactly why she cheated…

Dday - 27th September 2017

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The1stWife ( member #58832) posted at 7:51 PM on Saturday, September 17th, 2022

After being here at SI for a few years, these are all issues the BS grapple with.

Did they love the AP more than the BS?

Did they want to leave the BS, get a D and be with the AP?

Was the sex better with the AP?

Was it my (BS) fault the affair started?

Is my cheating spouse lying about details of the affair?

And yes this is just endless. The questions go on and on.

I think there is a moment in time that every BS has - and that is the decision to R or D. A decision is made. Good or bad. We face the unknown and decide.

It comes down to this - (quoted from a Dear Ann Landers column I read as a kid): am I better off with the cheater or without the cheater?

Everything else beyond that is the path you choose. Work on the marriage and heal or abandon the marriage and heal.

IMO if you aren’t happy, move on. If you tried and it doesn’t work to remain married, move on. If you gave it your best but it’s not going to change and you are unhappy, move on. Whether it’s due to the affair or it’s more than the affair, you just decide to no longer live in limbo with a mediocre spouse and a mediocre marriage.

The rest is unimportant. It doesn’t matter if the cheater is changed and is a good person or remorseful or still a jerk and a lying cheating spouse - you are moving on and that’s your decision.

If you choose to remain in the marriage, you accept the past and try to move towards a better happier future. If the cheater is on board, you work together. If not, you work alone.

But at the end of the day you accept responsibility for your life and your happiness. You stop analyzing everything and accept. Accept your choice / decision.

And make the best if it.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 7:56 PM, Saturday, September 17th]

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled.

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 p12241342 (original poster member #79267) posted at 5:04 PM on Tuesday, September 20th, 2022

Thanks for all your valuable replies.

It really makes me feel less alone.

What i don't understand is my wife on one hand will do everything and say everything right. She really is trying to fix what she broke and it shows. But at times she can turn, like she snaps. The pressure is just too much for her. I question this and she says she is entitled to get frustrated at times too. She get frustrated when she isn't heard, or I don't listen to what she says and just put words in her mouth.

She says there will be times going forward where she gets upset and frustrated with everything thats going on. I need to see that I'm not the only one hurting here. She keeps saying she has to live with what she has done everyday and that really frustrates her.

I keep referring to it as an act. I shouldn't but at times I do.

I read that wayward do everything they can to fix the issues they have caused which dont get me wrong my wife does. But does anyone else wayward loose it at times and say silly things that makes you think does she really want this

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Trdd ( member #65989) posted at 5:29 PM on Tuesday, September 20th, 2022

That is completely natural and normal. If you read on the wayward section you will see that a remorseful spouse bears quite a large burden. "How could I have done this? I am a failure, I am terrible" etc. On top of that comes "I dont know how to heal my BS. I am trying hard but it isn't working. What if I try for years and it still fails? Am I still hurting BS just by being here? Is it better for us if we D?"

It's easy to write this all off and say, well, they brought it on themselves. Which is true, however I think if we want R we have to acknowledge their struggle and that almost every human who struggles gets frustrated, anxious, stressed, worried ot some other emotion. IC will help her in how to deal with that negative emotion and stress.

She could be faking the effort it by at this point why would she? It's more likely she just gets tired, frustrated etc.

Remorse does not make you an expert in controlling your emotion or in healing your marriage.

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RocketRaccoon ( member #54620) posted at 3:31 AM on Wednesday, September 21st, 2022

I may have missed it, but I don't remember seeing anything about both of you going to see an IC.

If you and your WW are not seeing an IC, it may be a good idea to start. This can help you and your WW with your thoughts, and how to cope with them.

You cannot cure stupid

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Justsomeguy ( member #65583) posted at 3:14 PM on Wednesday, September 21st, 2022

Her words feel empty and just like words with no substance.

That's because they are. Words matter. The right words matter even more. I tell my students that there is a universe of difference between the right word and almost the right word. When she uses the word mistake, she diminishes her full culpability. It's a subtle way of offloading blame. Rather than a series of horrible choices that she intentionally made in order to achieve the outcome she desired, it was an error, an accident. My Ex called it her "crazy year", as if her behavior was a total aberration from her core character... she was a serial cheater in her last relationship, so nope. But for her to fully embrace her responsibility, she would also need to admit who she really was. Sure, WS's will often take full responsibility, but walk it back later semantically speaking. So taking full responsibility in the moment becomes a way of shutting the BS up more that an shouldering blame.

So what does matter? Actions. Every thread you'll read here talks about the importance of actions. From reading some of your posts, I sense your gut is screaming at you. I think this might be more than the mythic POLF spoken about here. I think your subconscious is trying to tell you something. It's not uncommon for a BS to shift their thinking in year two. It becomes more settled and less emotional as the initial trauma response begins to wane. You are now in a position to examine things without the waves of emotion biasing you.

There may be nothing to it, but I'm a firm believer in intuition. It's the brain's way of storing and processing information which is either too volumous or too uncomfortable to process at the moment. Your lizard brain is trying to tell you something.i don't know what that something is, but it will continue to niggle at you until you address it.

[This message edited by Justsomeguy at 3:17 PM, Wednesday, September 21st]

Me:55 STBXWW:55 DD#1: false confession of EA Dec. 2016. False R for a year.DD#2: confessed to year long PA Dec. 2 2017 (was about to be outed)Called it off and filed. Denied having an affair in court papers.

Divorced 2022!!!!

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Hurtmyheart ( member #63008) posted at 7:19 PM on Wednesday, September 21st, 2022

She get frustrated when she isn't heard, or I don't listen to what she says and just put words in her mouth.

Yes, I can see this because you are doing the same behavior here. Posters keep giving you advice, you say thank you, don't elaborate on the suggestions given and then get back to all of the what ifs and the questions all over again.

You are obsessing. I get it. Completely normal this early on. You are only 1 year and 4 months out from D day. That is like just finding out a month ago. You are very early in the process. Takes YEARS (YEARS!!!) to reach conclusions and acceptance, yet you want things to be healed like yesterday. I am sorry to tell you that it doesn't work that way.

Now my suggestion but first want to briefly tell you my story. My WH died before I got the whole truth of who he was.... but he did tell on himself over the years so I was able to piece things together after he passed away. Turns out that he was a serial cheater. Anyways, he passed away around 2 1/2 years ago. I will never heal from his passing or what he did to me and our marriage and it has been a very long road to acceptance and learning to move forward in my life alone. Very long road for me.

As I stated earlier, you are only 1 year and 4 months out. That is nothing in the healing and acceptance department.

My suggestions, if you are able to hear them. And I get it about obsessing because I was that way 100%. Take a mental break and do something for yourself. Or maybe do something with your kid's? I am concerned for them. I feel like in the midst of this battle between you and your WW, they have been forgotten. You can also do something simple like wash and vacuum the cars or mow the lawn and take care of the yard for example. And tell yourself that you are going to let go of your fears and obsessive thoughts for just an hour and focus on the task at hand.

My feeling is that in order for you to be able to hear yourself and your thoughts (and what your WW keeps telling you), you are going to need to allow yourself to step away from your situation and focus on something else for awhile. Slow your obsessing brain down for awhile. Otherwise, you will continue down this path on the merry go round to the point that it drives you and everyone crazy. And that is what is happening. IOW, your same questions and thoughts go round and around and around, and around and around and around some more. There are no solutions in this thinking. You have so many posters reaching out to you trying to give you good, sound advice and you can't and won't hear it. All you keep saying is thank you and back to those obsessions.

Another way to help you break the cycle of your obsessive thoughts is to slow your brain down and really think about the advice
being given and respond to the advice alone without adding questions. Show us that you are contemplating the advice given because right now you aren't.

Something needs to give in order to help clear your brain so that you can make better informed decisions. Get you off that crazy merry go round of not being able to come to any agreement or conclusions. Just try my idea's and see if it gives you a lightbulb💡 moment. It took me awhile and listening to others advice to get to this point too. And it's been such a great relief to get away from the obsessing. Practically wore me out and drove me crazy. I also use meditation practices I found on YouTube. 30 minutes max of listening and learning to relax and calm down.

I'm sorry that you are having to experience this. I really understand that emotional and psychological pain that you are enduring. But there is a way out of this you know. You just need to learn to listen more thoughtfully and apply some suggestions others are giving you here. And maybe try listening to your wife just for a second and that she is telling you the truth.

This is a journey that you are on. I wish for you to find peace, comfort, healing and acceptance.

posts: 874   ·   registered: Mar. 12th, 2018
id 8756409
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Hurtmyheart ( member #63008) posted at 8:02 PM on Wednesday, September 21st, 2022

I'm sorry but I need to rephrase something that I wrote about earlier. It is taking me a very long time to reach acceptance of my WH, his lifestyle and then his death. I don't think that I will ever heal fully but am slowly learning acceptance and to work alongside the grief of his passing and his indiscretions. It's been very emotionally and psychologically draining a d painful for me to process, just am pretty sure that you also understand this.

The hardest part for me has been to realize that some memories were really good and some were not so good because really I would rather just focus on the bad and what he did, and not acceptance and forgiveness.

But in order for me to work towards some semblance of healing, I also need to realize that part of our marriage had good in it. And if I don't allow myself to see the good, the bad will eat away at my brain and soul. Unfortunately this is where my journey with my deceased WH led to. And I also loved and adored him very much so, just as I am sure that you love and adore your wife. Hard to comprehend that the person I thought the world of was capable of doing what he did. Today I see his choices and who he was was mentally ill on the inside. His outside looked very normal and presentable but his thought processes and spiritual side of him was lacking.

Being married to him is a part of my journey in life. It has been very helpful to see my part in my journey with him. I too am having to work for change. It isn't just a one way street. IMO, the obsessing was a huge downfall in my relationship with him. But again I had to see that what he did was abnormal. Gives me some wiggle room for forgiveness.

posts: 874   ·   registered: Mar. 12th, 2018
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smitty82 ( new member #80920) posted at 12:03 PM on Thursday, September 22nd, 2022

Hi p12241342
I had to post. SO much of what you said rings true for me.
My WH tells me over and over how beautiful, sexy and perfect I am but, like you, I think that it's all just words. He tells me that he loves me but this means nothing to me now really as he said the exact same thing to the AP. I can't say it to him as I don't think I believe in what love is anymore.
He too has said how much he hates what he did and that it was the worst mistake of his life. How can this be the feeling now when 6 months ago he was leaving the family home a day before he needed to (he worked away) so that he could get to her sooner.....?
On my good days I try to think that he made a huge mistake and doesn't everyone make mistakes but this never lasts long and then I am back to feeling he is only wanting to be reconciled because I am the mother of his children and he should do the right thing.
I reckon that there will always and forever be an element of this doubt and I have just got to learn how I can live with it.

Thank you for your post.

posts: 11   ·   registered: Sep. 13th, 2022   ·   location: UK
id 8756495
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Luna10 ( member #60888) posted at 5:30 PM on Thursday, September 22nd, 2022

My WH tells me over and over how beautiful, sexy and perfect I am but, like you, I think that it's all just words. He tells me that he loves me but this means nothing to me now really as he said the exact same thing to the AP. I can't say it to him as I don't think I believe in what love is anymore.

That is completely normal. I mean think about it, we BSes would be completely crazy to believe what our WSes say when they have just proven they cannot be trusted and betrayed us.

But there is light at the end of the tunnel. There are two elements of this. One is what I said in a post above, I will not repeat myself, but it is all to do with where do you get your self worth from, yourself or from external sources such as your WS. We all get some level of self worth from external sources, for example we all want our work to be recognised in a professional environment and to receive praise. But if you get your worth ONLY from external sources, such as our WSes, then we will never believe anything the WS says to be true.

So if you believed you were sexy/beautiful/smart/gorgeous prior to dday and post dday you suddenly feel that none of that is true is because, like me, you got most of your validation from external sources/your WS. Once they cheated you decided that you cannot be sexy/beautiful/smart/gorgeous because if you were they wouldn’t have cheated.

However once you do some work on your own recovery you realise that it is actually possible that you are ALL those things but your WS turned into a rotten apple (at least temporarily) and he is the one with the problem, not you. Therefore when they tell you that you are sexy/beautiful/smart etc, they don’t have to convince you of it because you know that to be true.

The second element is your WS. I actually think the WSes actions whilst we are in the obsessive phase are key. There are WSes who do some reading and understand trauma, including the fact that obsessive behaviour is normal and instead of telling you that they are tired of your obsessiveness, like the OP’s wife does, they do realise their words are meaningless and whilst they repeat themselves, they also take action.

This is on the same level with putting trust coins in the trust bank. As a BS we verify a lot of their stories post dday. Where they are, who they are with, emails, locations, and so on. Each time they are where they say they are the trust bank fills up a bit more.

OP I’m not saying your WS has no right to ever lose it. I am though concerned again that you seem to say the same thing "her words feel meaningless" and she threatens that she cannot do this anymore because you don’t believe her.

As a quick reminder: a cheater’s words ARE meaningless if not followed by action. What exactly is your WS doing to show you she’s a changed person? You keep repeating that she does everything right but you never seem to define what you mean by that (unless I missed it). What exactly is she doing to build trust and support your healing and the R process? To fix herself?

Dday - 27th September 2017

posts: 1597   ·   registered: Oct. 2nd, 2017   ·   location: Europe
id 8756546
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