SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I'm sure a lot of betrayed spouses here clicked on this post because they, too, were told this.

Waywards, not sure why you clicked, but I'd like to know.

Okay, both sides - let's hear if you think it's possible that a cheater really and truly loves their spouse while having an affair (EA or PA or both) and why or why not.

Me?

I don't think it's possible in long term affairs. Can someone mess up with a one-night stand? I guess so. Maybe. Never having been on the WS of the fence I can't say.

But anything longterm? No. The spouse is just a Spouse Appliance, or they see the spouse as comfortable, or someone to do all the parenting and adulting, the ace in the hole, kibble that will always be there, codependancy...

What do you think?

I clicked because I read all topics in the General forum.

I think it’s possible to have feelings of love for the BS while cheating. I don’t think it’s possible to love as an action verb.

Very interesting, Darkness Falls. So what would you say are the feelings of love versus actions?

The words and actions seem so elusive when we talk about what we feel for our spouses and when.

Thanks for the reply and input!

Honestly that question can keep me awake. My wh has a lta and said he loved me the whole time. It’s very difficult to believe that however the experts all say it’s possible.

Was my wh just doing ti because he could and thought he was too smart to ever get caught so I would never get hurt? I don’t know but his actions don’t equal love to me and I told him that he didn’t love me at least the way I deserved to be loved including during the time the a was over but he was still lying.

So, he can say he loved me the entire time, including loving only me while telling the ap he “love you too”, but it’s not something I hear. I think he is just too cowardly to admit that he didn’t love me during that time because he knows it would hurt as much or more than the cheating.

Yes, WH said this, and yes, I believed him. Still do. He tells me he loves me. He's told me that he never stopped loving me. He tells me these things because he thinks that will make me feel safer, better, etc. The problem is, loving me doesn't mean shit. Obviously it doesn't make me feel safer right now because he loved me while he was fucking another woman. This insight honestly took him by surprise! Imagine that!

Also, to be perfectly honest, knowing that he never stopped loving me made it even worse. I could more understand if he stopped loving me that he would seek another person (should have divorced first, but morals aren't part of a WS are they). Him loving me while he fucked another woman doesn't mean shit except that he was a selfish motherfucker who didn't think he would get caught and was perfectly happy sticking his dick where it didn't belong. Love? So fucking what!

It took me a month to get out of my husband that he told his LTA (over 20 years) that he loved her, but it wasn't what I thought. I actually pulled the old texts from an old phone to show him he indeed said it and of course she was kind enough to tell me AND send screenshots of the undying love etc.

He has told me after the fact that throughout the two decades of emotional affair bullshit (which I was in the dark about) that he was never going to leave me, like that makes me feel better. Like he is some sort of prize.

So, if we had a score card...he apparently loved me the whole time but when we fought or you know, I ignored his needs or fell short of wifely perfection, he liked talking to her. She was easy (no kidding ) and there was no stress. But he also told her he loved her and they were soulmates. Apparently the soulmate part was only because she "started it" and honestly I would have bet on our children's lives he would never utter something so stupid.

Do I believe him?? over 20 years of texting, over 65,000 texts, phone calls, visits to her house, and one overnight where he of course didn't have sex. 20 years of lying to my face, time taken away from our family, coldness, outright hostility, and cruelty on occasion. No. I do not think it is possible to love the BS while doing that or not love the way a person should with respect to a spouse.

At a minimum I deserved the dignity and respect of a relationship with integrity and although I can believe he could carelessly tell her he loved her without meaning it, why bother if you get nothing out of it like maybe sex?

No. I think I was convenient, took care of everything, worked my ass off, tried to make him happy and he enjoyed all that while saving the man I would have wanted him to be for her. She got the laughing, kind words, gentleness and simple niceness. That is not love.

My 2 cents.

I think they can love you...in their messed up, dysfunctional, unhealthy view of love.

I am a WS. I recognize that I didn't love my H while having an affair, but I have had some time to redefine what that means.

I was probably more the one who used the cliché "I love you but I am not in love with you"

I think often WS think that our spouse is there to make us happy. We turn to the AP, we want them to make us happy. But, we are really responsible for our own happiness, and we best experience love by giving it. Daily intentional actions. Appreciation. Attention. Effort. I always considered myself a good wife before the A, and I did those things, but I did them with expectations. I now do them without expectations.

Right after dday and while his thought process was fucked up, he told me he "tried to hate me". He, of course, was in "LUV" with his AP, and loving me would have been too much for him. So, he wanted to hate me because it justified his jackassness.

Now that we are 2 yrs in, he told me that he never stopped loving me: Even in the heat of the A. Disrespected me? Oh yeah, big time.

But I am a firm believer that if he truly didn't love me AND he really did love his AP would have left me for her. Truth is, they don't really love the AP and don't want them on a full-time basis. Again, more than not it's has nothing to do with the AP.

I got this and all the variations of it. “ I only love you. He meant nothing to me. I was never going to leave you. I don’t care if I ever see him again.” Blah blah blah

None of that will ever change the fact that she brought him into our lives and destroyed a 25 year marriage at the time.

If anything this train of thought pissed me off more. You destroyed us for someone you didn’t care for, and meant nothing to you. Brilliant

I remember shutting down this crap. Didn’t matter if she loved me or not. And I actually believed she did.

OptionedOut,

When I say “love as a feeling,” I mean those strong feelings of affection for and emotional attachment to another person—what, I think, we as a romantic (rather than pragmatic) society generally think of as “love.”

“Love as an action” is the BEHAVIOR that demonstrates said affection and romantic attachment. Kindness. Caring. Respect. Honesty. Fostering a climate of emotional intelligence and emotional intimacy. Mutual acts of service/doing things to show your partner you appreciate them. Speaking their “love language.” *Treating* them as though you love them, so that they KNOW it, rather than just giving vague lip service. That is the kind of “love” that is missing when a WS is having an affair.

As a fWW I think MillGirl hit it on the head for me - I only knew how to love in my own dysfunctional, self- serving kind of way. I *thought* I knew how to love but I was very mistaken. I always looked for outside validation and eventually, as I started to take BS for granted more and more, his opinion didn’t mean much to me - he would say I was beautiful and smart but my answer was always “you’re my husband - you HAVE to say that...” NOW I certainly can see how fucked up my head was.

For me, I can say I loved him but I loved him the only way I knew how at the time - not like he deserved to be loved and not in the way he loved me. In order for someone to cheat there is something inherently broken in them - do I think they mean it when they say that? Mostly, I do - I just think they do it in the same dysfunctional, self-serving way I did. HIO made a great point, as well. We as waywards think it’s love but it’s not the same type of love BS’s give us - I don’t think we are capable of that until we do the work. I fully recognize how screwed up I was and now I can say that I love my BS with everything- the way he deserves and the way he loves me. I understand the sanctity of my marriage and the great responsibility that goes with it. Comparatively, if you put the two side by side - no, I didn’t love him - shit, i didn’t love me!

All of that to say - I think the problem is what love means to each person. A BS only has their version of love to compare so I imagine they have no reason to believe a WS loved them the whole time and I can’t fault anyone for that.

I agree with Hikingout.

My WH was selfish and only loved himself above all others during A.

WH says he loved me and said he never wanted to leave me but what he was thinking was more akin to, "I don't want anything in my life to change while I have my fun."

Who would want that kind of Love? A person who lies and cheats on you while eating the food you prepared, you shopped for, and the home you made nice and clean while taking the brunt of kid drama and their life?

Where can I wait in line for that shit? Oh wait, I got it handed to me.

My W only said "but I chose you", she decided not to lie that she loved me, it was simply a practical decision.

She may have felt guilt, pity, contempt or hate or all of those, but she certainly did not feel love for me at that time.

My take is that my STBXWW did not love me. I fact, I would venture to say that she does not really understand what love is, never having had it modeled for her at home. I think she views all relationships transactionally. Based on that, every relationship is based on what she gets. She must maximize her return on as little investment as possible.

I think WWs either really love themselves or really gate themselves. The BS is just a peripheral concern. If the WW loves themselves, then they feel entitled. If they hate themselves, then they are self medicating. Either road leads to the same destination. But what the Hell do I know, I'm into my second glass of wine...

Just meaningless words over very obvious actions. Nothing more than that.

Self protection mode

[This message edited by Marz at 9:07 PM, November 5th (Tuesday)]

No love here. WH started his A full of anger and likely hatred for me. After DDay, I got I will always love you, we have two wonderful boys,,,,,,,, So not really....

He did not love me in any way during his A. He was occasionally nice but generally treated strangers better than me.

Seriously where was my head?

Now he wants us. He is doing more than he ever has. But I have real trouble understanding why he wants us now. He threw us out years ago without a thought.

Total mind fuck.

My STBX has had multiple A’s including an LTA. Just recently had my 3rd D-Day after separating and he just told me he’s never loved another human more than me

I got the ILYBNILWY speech during his affair. Hard to recover from that.

No, I don't think it's possible, not true, healthy love.

anything longterm? No.

Define longterm. I don't consider my fch's A as long term. From beginning to end, it was about 4 months. But, it was much more than an ONS. It was an EA before it became a PA, and always more of an EA, at least for my fch.

He told me he always loved me. He never considered leaving me for the MOW or any other reason. I don't believe him. He admitted to discussing D to be with the MOW. I guess it doesn't count since they both decided it wouldn't work? He says he told her he would not leave me. If they discussed it, then it was considered. No way around that.

I still don't believe that he loves me. Idk that I ever will again. If love is actions, then I guess you could say he loves me now. To me, love is a feeling. I don't feel loved anymore no matter what he does. 🤷‍♀️