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Myths

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hikingout posted 11/26/2019 15:00 PM

Personally, that addictive quality pisses me off. First, because there is a sexual and emotional intensity in it that is hard to replicate in a long term relationship--- so the playing field is far from even. And second, it pisses me off because it is demonstrably true in many cases. I think it is particularly true for WW although I may be biased in that opinion. It's a terrible fact, but a fact nonetheless.

I will only offer here as a WW, admittedly this is going to be very little consolation.

The addiction is to the feelings or the affair, not to the AP. And, when the WW has worked through what has happened, none of what transpired is a desirable thing. What is really not replicable with an AP is the things that have true substance, meaning, and richness with the BS. Nothing I experienced with the AP or even in the highs of the affair was comparable to what my true life is. It wasn't worth it on any level, and I don't think that you as a BS should feel the need to compete with anything. YOU are the prize to be won. That's not lip service. I cringe when I think of what would have happened had I really landed with the AP. I would have truly gotten what I deserved, that's for sure - a truly shitty life with a lot of regrets. So, to me, it's the affair that could never compare or live up to my marriage or my husband.

Thumos posted 11/26/2019 15:12 PM

Here's another one:

"Donít decide anything for six months to a year."

I was told this and took it as good advice. It's terrible advice with no basis in fact, like "drink 8 glasses of water a day."

It froze me in amber for a time, and I regret believing it was good advice.

Thumos posted 11/26/2019 15:13 PM

Another Western innovation is the need to have a scientific explanation for any natural phenomena. If we are going to wait for "reputable, verifiable, replicable, peer-reviewed scientific studies with empirical data (like brain scans)" to explain human behavior then we are going to be waiting a loooong time, lol.

Touche.

Thumos posted 11/26/2019 15:21 PM

I have always thought the phrase applies mostly to the chorus shouting D or R and less to the core advice of things like the 180 etc.

This really gets at what I'm saying. I'm quite loathe to push most to R or D (though sometimes the shitshow is so toxic, it becomes pretty obvious). And even when a WS is being a complete horse's ass I always make sure to say I hope they'll change and maybe become good reconciliation material (always with the hopium for me).

But I cringe when some say "take what you need and leave the rest" particularly in JFO forums when applied to the steps a newly betrayed spouse really needs to take end the affair and get their WS to begin thinking straight (like the absolutely vital 180) -- whether they R or D.

I didn't have this guidance before and after D-Day (my own fault for not reaching out) but oh how I wish I'd had the "kit" sitting in front of me from day one.

Thumos posted 11/26/2019 15:27 PM

What is really not replicable with an AP is the things that have true substance, meaning, and richness with the BS. Nothing I experienced with the AP or even in the highs of the affair was comparable to what my true life is. It wasn't worth it on any level, and I don't think that you as a BS should feel the need to compete with anything.

My WW has said something like this several times the past three years. It hurts to hear it, and I can't quite put my finger on why.

hikingout posted 11/26/2019 15:30 PM

My WW has said something like this several times the past three years. It hurts to hear it, and I can't quite put my finger on why.

Because our actions didn't back it up. That's why. I can understand how hearing it is a double edged sword and why it would fall short in the aftermath of infidelity.

I hesitated to say it here in my response even because it's of little consolation that we remember it after we went and fucked around behind your back. It's really not hard to understand how contradictory it is. It's just still true at the same time, which probably makes it sadder.

Thumos posted 11/26/2019 15:34 PM

I hesitated to say it here in my response even because it's of little consolation that we remember it after we went and fucked around behind your back. It's really not hard to understand how contradictory it is. It's just still true at the same time, which probably makes it sadder.

I don't mind you saying it here. Was just reflecting on how my wife has said much the same thing. I think you nailed it on why it pains me, so thank you.

Oldwounds posted 11/26/2019 15:45 PM

"Donít decide anything for six months to a year."

I was told that as well, but I tend to tell people, take as much time as you need to decide. For some people that's five minutes, for others it's five years.

Rule one to me is if you're done, you're done. No need to take any more time or concern than necessary.

ramius posted 11/26/2019 15:52 PM

ďThey always affair down.Ē

Nope.

MrCleanSlate posted 11/26/2019 16:02 PM

Thumos,

I describe being in an affair as going off to 'Space Camp'. It's not a fog.

You consciously escape everyday life, you can do all sorts of cool and fun things, but none of it is real, and you don't think about having to go home until your '2 weeks' are over and you are getting kicked out for the next group to come in.

Then when you return 'home' some people kind of miss the escapism of space camp and try to hang onto the fantasy.

For too many their life may seem to suck. Crappy home life, crappy job, etc. If only we would put some effort into fixing our life then we wouldn't need to 'escape'.

As I write this I realize I'm writing it more for myself than for you....That is what I did.

MrCleanSlate posted 11/26/2019 16:10 PM

[This message edited by MrCleanSlate at 6:31 AM, December 2nd (Monday)]

Justgetitoverwith posted 11/26/2019 16:37 PM

You're responsible for 50 percent of the problems in the marriage"

Haha. Nope. The problems in our marriage are predominantly caused by him working away for great stretches of time (so he 'gets lonely' and cracks on to other women). This was a unilaterally decided career change on his side,and I said at the time it would be difficult. But he wanted to do it, so.... I'm in no way 50% responsible for that. I was lonely too, and didn't cheat.

AbandonedGuy posted 11/26/2019 16:42 PM

Maybe somebody covered this above, and a WS might speak to this far better than me, but as far as "the fog" goes, I think it's just a fancy term for the rationalization that one undergoes to justify the affair. We can all work to rationalize away our good and bad decisions. "I didn't feel appreciated...so I cheated (or stopped being productive at work, or stopped keeping in touch with a friend, or whatever)." The "fog lifting", to me, is just a person realizing that they're probably better off with their spouse thus they better get their act together to fix the mess they created. When a spouse cheats and stays with the AP, did they "remain in the fog"? To me, they just never were faced with the need to backpedal on their choice, so whatever justification led them to cheat didn't ever let up. Maybe both spouses are in a better place now, in which case BOTH WS and BS alike can tell themselves, "It's better this way, I'm actually in a good place and wouldn't have been had we continued to the marriage." In that case, are we BOTH now swallowed by "the fog", the one where it was magically okay for the WS to cheat, just because "things worked out in the end"?

There is no fog. There are decisions we make and the reasons we tell ourselves for making them. Additionally, there are circumstances which hit us in the face, sometimes out of nowhere, the decisions we make to salvage what we can of our lives and move on, and the reasons we tell ourselves for why the "new normal" is better. Such is the human condition.

KingRat posted 11/26/2019 16:52 PM


This really gets at what I'm saying. I'm quite loathe to push most to R or D (though sometimes the shitshow is so toxic, it becomes pretty obvious). And even when a WS is being a complete horse's ass I always make sure to say I hope they'll change and maybe become good reconciliation material (always with the hopium for me).

But I cringe when some say "take what you need and leave the rest" particularly in JFO forums when applied to the steps a newly betrayed spouse really needs to take end the affair and get their WS to begin thinking straight (like the absolutely vital 180) -- whether they R or D.

I didn't have this guidance before and after D-Day (my own fault for not reaching out) but oh how I wish I'd had the "kit" sitting in front of me from day one.

I think that advice is probably the most useful on this site because it isnít limiting. Consider everything, digest it, and apply what is relevant to your situation.

I think the biggest myth is that there is some kind of ďkitĒ that you can follow like a manual and everything will work out fine. Thereís too many variables in situation. I get it, everyone wants instant gratification. Itís like those get-rich-quick books. They sell because the oversimplification gives people a false sense of control or power in a given situation. They donít deliver because for the same reason. Often there arenít any easy answers and it is going to be hard no matter how you slice it. The only guarantee is there are no guarantees.

Thumos posted 11/26/2019 17:37 PM

think the biggest myth is that there is some kind of ďkitĒ that you can follow like a manual and everything will work out fine

There isnít a ďkitĒ for everything to be puppies and rainbows but there is certainly a kit for newly betrayed spouses to drop a shock and awe bunker buster on their WS and get clear of the shit show to some small degree ó or at least gain some psychic and spiritual space to stanch the bleeding and decide on a next move.

We talk about this kit all the time on JFO and it works if done right. It doesnít work when ignored. People like me wish weíd has this kit when our D-Day happened.

Thatís what Iím talking about. Beyond that short timeframe things get murky and no one can pretend otherwise. But the kit does put WS off center and gains BS some measure of small control in the midst of a maelstrom.

AbandonedGuy posted 11/26/2019 17:48 PM

I'm a firm believer in the 180. It didn't make my ex love me again, but it helped me to retain some dignity. I'm just lucky I found this tactic on my own. It's hard to take this advice from others when you're steeped in the emotional turmoil.

waitedwaytoolong posted 11/26/2019 17:56 PM

This can make your marriage even stronger

I wanted to throw up when our MC told me this. My EX latched onto it like a life preserver.

I donít doubt that if you had a shit marriage, that this might actually be the case. But for those of us who had a good marriage it is a joke. Like the white sofa that someone spills a big glass of red wine on is now better than ever.

Inhateeverything posted 11/26/2019 18:02 PM

Maybe somebody covered this above, and a WS might speak to this far better than me, but as far as "the fog" goes, I think it's just a fancy term for the rationalization that one undergoes to justify the affair. We can all work to rationalize away our good and bad decisions. "I didn't feel appreciated...so I cheated (or stopped being productive at work, or stopped keeping in touch with a friend, or whatever)." The "fog lifting", to me, is just a person realizing that they're probably better off with their spouse thus they better get their act together to fix the mess they created. When a spouse cheats and stays with the AP, did they "remain in the fog"? To me, they just never were faced with the need to backpedal on their choice, so whatever justification led them to cheat didn't ever let up. Maybe both spouses are in a better place now, in which case BOTH WS and BS alike can tell themselves, "It's better this way, I'm actually in a good place and wouldn't have been had we continued to the marriage." In that case, are we BOTH now swallowed by "the fog", the one where it was magically okay for the WS to cheat, just because "things worked out in the end"?
There is no fog. There are decisions we make and the reasons we tell ourselves for making them. Additionally, there are circumstances which hit us in the face, sometimes out of nowhere, the decisions we make to salvage what we can of our lives and move on, and the reasons we tell ourselves for why the "new normal" is better. Such is the human condition[


Damn this is good. Sums up about how I feel about the fucking fog

Inhateeverything posted 11/26/2019 18:09 PM

I wanted to throw up when our MC told me this. My EX latched onto it like a life preserver.

I donít doubt that if you had a shit marriage, that this might actually be the case. But for those of us who had a good marriage it is a joke. Like the white sofa that someone spills a big glass of red wine on is now better than ever.

I too want to throw up sometimes when my WW says that she wants out new marriage to be better and to be the partner I deserved all along.

I tried to tell myself it was a good marriage and I fooled myself for years. Now through the lense of the affair itís obvious the marriage was a one sided dumpster fire. I tend to think that if she was committing adultery then the marriage probably wasnít as good as I thought. Really made me look at it in a way I hadnít before. At one point I would have been content to live out the rest of my life married to this miserable unhappy person who would blame everyone and everything around her rather then take an ounce of personally accountability. That version of me has been snapped out of existence.

[This message edited by Inhateeverything at 6:10 PM, November 26th (Tuesday)]

Striver posted 11/26/2019 18:54 PM

I don't understand how healthy people in a marriage could be better off after A.

But there are plenty of BS here who want R on D Day. Who are terrified of WS leaving. Those of that ilk, they are probably thrilled with anything they get from WS.

There is cheating in healthy marriages too. Don't know the percentages. Everything's great, I'm bored. BS is perfect, I'm jealous and want to see him/her taken down a peg. BS treats me like royalty, I have contempt for them, but am intrigued by this person who doesn't take my crap. And on and on.

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