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How essential is No Contact

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StrugglingCJ posted 6/24/2020 12:23 PM

I am struggling with getting my Ww to understand why her still being in contact with the AP is making me struggle on a daily basis..
Background was we both played a game and through a group chat she asked him for game advice.. This moved asap to chatting all day every day.. And within weeks pics and videos were shared.. Her and him got on well together but he lived 5,000km away.. As i didnt suspect anything i didnt think anything of them going to music festivals together.. Or even her going on a trip to where he lived (yeah i know hindsight is wonderful). They went away together loads and became very close.. We went as a family to where he lived and met his family..his mum came and stayed with us for a fortnight.
Then DDay.. Her first response after begging me to not leave her was to beg me to not stop them talking.. And due to co dependancy i let her.. They had tickets to go to a festival in the summer.. And i let them.. She went away on her own in the sept.. And again another festival in the december..
By the december i had had enough.. Realised what i was actually doing and told her no more.. Told her i wanted him out of our life.. Her approach now is why was it ok before but not now..and that how could we turn our back on friends because of this (i think his dad and brother know the truth but no others).
I will admit at the 6month point her behaviour significantly changed to be a better wife.. Mum.. Etc.. But this is still a huge sticking point.
I am asking.. Is there ANYONE out there who successfully managed R with the AP still present?

Evertrying posted 6/24/2020 12:31 PM

Umm,, NO.
There is NO WAY you can R with her as long as she insists on maintaining a relationship with this guy. And why would you want to? Unless you are into an open marriage and letting in a 3rd person, there isn't much hope for your situation.
There was no way I would have stayed in my marriage if my H still had ANY KIND of contact with his AP.

fooled13years posted 6/24/2020 12:36 PM

StrugglingCJ

How essential is No Contact

How essential is no contact with her AP?

She is addicted to him and her comment/request should tell you all you need to know of her addiction

beg me to not stop them talking

It is as essential as an alcoholic staying away from alcohol or a drug addict staying away from drugs.
They went away together loads and became very close

I am sorry to have to bring this up to you but talk and send texts, pics and videos is not all they did.

She also had a lot of sex with him.

You are no longer playing a game and if both of you are not willing to take this seriously you might as well file for D and move on.

hikingout posted 6/24/2020 12:37 PM

WS here.

No Contact is the most essential of all requirements for R.

As long as she is in contact with him:

-she is showing you her feelings are more important than yours.
-the AP's feelings are more important than yours.
-the affair will resume.

It sounds as if it is an affair with limerence, which means there is an addiction/obsessive element to it. Limerance can not dissipate so long as there is contact.

This is not one of those "suggestions for requirements of R" this is THE requirement for R.

It doesn't at all matter that it was okay and now it isn't. The fact she is using that is very devious.

For R to work, she needs to put you first. Period. No negotiations. Do not let her do a long drawn out goodbye, or do it privately either. Do not let her blame you for it in her communication. Draft a NC email together and send it.

She needs to also be willing to be transparent with all devices in order for your peace of mind that she is not doing this behind your back. You can't nice someone into Reconciliation with you, either they want it or they don't. That is not a reflection of you, it's a reflection of her. She is making everything more important than how you feel, and it means she doesn't have a clue to the damage she has done to you.

Chicklette posted 6/24/2020 12:37 PM

I agree with Evertrying. My fWH went NC immediately with his AP, blocked her number etc. If he hadn’t I wouldn’t have considered us to be in R. If your WW is still seeing/talking to her AP she is still in a relationship with him. That is not R.

This0is0Fine posted 6/24/2020 12:40 PM

It is 100% essential. Contact should be 0. I allowed work related contact only and they have gone back to talking about "benign" personal stuff (How are the kids doing with school, how's the house project, blah blah blah), which is how the whole thing started. I caved on this demand and now it's leading to D. So there you have it. My opinion is that it is completely essential.

Anyway, she is still having an A with her AP because you are allowing it. Why was it ok for her to spend time with him before? Because you hadn't found your goddamn spine yet. Now you have. Alternatively, you tell her it was never fine and it kept on hurting you, just like you told her it would, and you have simply had enough.

Why do you think she deserves rational thoughtful behavior from you when she lied and cheated on you? Do she think her actions have caused a reasonable rational response, or does she think her betrayal has traumatized you and torn you in half? Half of you thinking you should just leave and end it now and the other half saying you are so in love and can work it out.

She doesn't get what she has put you through, and likely never will.

Let me put it simply.

She doesn't deserve a rational, calm, agreeable response from you. She deserves to receive your anger, rage, demands, and criticism. She deserves to be treated capriciously at the behest of you feelings. She should be doing whatever it takes to make it right. Sounds like she is still walking all over you.

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 1:02 PM, June 24th (Wednesday)]

Chaos posted 6/24/2020 12:49 PM

Is there ANYONE out there who successfully managed R with the AP still present?

You can't have R with AP present in any fashion.

Your WW is enjoying her best of both worlds scenario and you are rolling out the red carpet for it.

skerzoid posted 6/24/2020 13:20 PM

What was found on D-Day? A physical affair? If not, you didn't look hard enough. It's obvious to everyone reading your post that this was a sexual affair.

1. You need to find legal representation. To save your marriage, you must be willing to lose it, & she has to believe it. She should see that you are willing to divorce over this.

2. Get checked for STDs. Seriously, your health has been of no consequence to her. This is why we don't use prostitutes...disease (in addition to moral & fidelity reasons).

3. Find out about the 180. google 'the 180 for hurt spouses'.

4. As long as she is in contact, she is in the affair. Express to her 'no contact or no marriage'.

5. Have her take a polygraph exam to find out all truth.

6. Practice strength and honor with her. She will only respect you when you show these things.

[This message edited by skerzoid at 3:01 PM, June 24th (Wednesday)]

StrugglingCJ posted 6/24/2020 13:23 PM

Thank you all for very quick responses..
To fooled13years.. Yes i know this now.. Found out afyer DDay.. She had lied to me to minimise things but the truth always comes out.
To hikingout.. I have read alot of your posts and they are always insightful.. And you are right here again i cannot nice her into this and she has not realised the damage she has done here..
To this0is0fine.. For most of our married life i was a doormat.. Anything for a quiet life.. That started to change when i found the truth about the affair.. At the time she was finally making chsnges to her behaviour i realised what a shit sandwich i was being asked to eat.
Lockdown has not helped things as it has eliminated any time apart we had.. But it has helped in that i have seen how she is day to day..
Thank you all for your guidance.

crazyblindsided posted 6/24/2020 13:24 PM

You cannot R when AP is still in the picture. No Contact is the first thing that NEEDS to happen in order to R. Otherwise you will never achieve R. You don't even have a M at this point.

It's NC or D or go batshit crazy your choice, but you have to be willing and brave enough to lose the M in order to save it.

Sorry you are here

PSTI posted 6/24/2020 13:31 PM

The AP is someone with whom your WS violated marital boundaries. How can you ever trust a WS with that individual again?

Heck, even in open/poly relationships, I firmly believe there is no way to move on when an AP is in the picture. How can you rebuild trust when your WS is still engaging with someone they were okay deceiving you about?

StrugglingCJ posted 6/24/2020 13:32 PM

Skerzoid.. I may be missing something but what is the difference between a physical affair and a sexual one.. I know they had sex.. Probably every chance they could.. I know they talked about it.. She would say to him that oops harlot got out again..
So what is the difference.
As to the other points.. I got std tested.. I will speak with a lawyer.. Dont think i can get a poly in the uk.. But will definitely tell her no contact or no marriage.. Thank you.

Okokok posted 6/24/2020 13:36 PM

I am asking.. Is there ANYONE out there who successfully managed R with the AP still present?

No, but you can find people who stay "married" while their wife continues to have a boyfriend. Some do it for the rest of their lives.

Her approach now is why was it ok before but not now..and that how could we turn our back on friends because of this

This is the silliest and dumbest thing ever, of course. But yeah, many WSs say a version of this.

She met this man and had sex with him on multiple occasions (I have read your old posts). He is no longer a "friend." You cannot give any credence to this. Your mantra needs to be "this is not a friend, this is your boyfriend."

By the december i had had enough.. Realised what i was actually doing and told her no more.. Told her i wanted him out of our life.. Her approach now is why was it ok before but not now..and that how could we turn our back on friends because of this (i think his dad and brother know the truth but no others).

So just FYI--and I *know* how difficult it is to see this because I've been there, too--but the message you've been giving to her is 100% NOT "enough" or "no more." The message you've been sending for the last 6 months is "I don't like that you have a boyfriend, but I'm not going to do anything about it."

I'm sorry, man. You're not going to see a change until *you* start doing something different.

Most BSs spin their wheels for a while doing the "pick-me" dance, trying to "nice" their WS back, or trying to endlessly "explain" them back. Never, ever, ever works.

Big question: even if this AP fell off the face of the earth tomorrow and was totally gone, would that be enough for you to reconcile with your wife? What else do you think you might need? Would it even be possible at this point?

~

I just want to make something very clear to you: your wife is still having an affair. It has never stopped. You're not simply dealing with a lapse in No Contact...you're still in an active infidelity situation.

There are things you can do to get out of it, and we can help you with that.

The1stWife posted 6/24/2020 13:36 PM

Think of the affair like an addiction.

CAn you stay sober if you are still drinking? If you are still drinking you are still an alcoholic. Not a recovering alcoholic.

If she still has ANY contact with the AP then the Affair is not over.

The1stWife posted 6/24/2020 13:38 PM

She’s knows she’s cheating. And she’s know what she is doing is wrong.

Yet she has NO PROBLEM continuing to disrespect you and lying.

Every one of us here at SI will tell you that as long as the AP is around the affair continues.

landclark posted 6/24/2020 13:38 PM

How essential is No Contact

It's pretty damn essential. As far as why you changed your mind, we're in shock after DDAY. We sometimes do some things or make decisions that in hindsite are not in our best interest. We have every right to change our minds though.

As long as the AP is in your life and she is getting her cake and eating it too, you're never going to be able to successfully R. She's using you both.

hcsv posted 6/24/2020 14:17 PM

It's essential unless you dont mind being the third person in your own marriage.

Chances are, that third person knows every detail of your life, relationship and family, both personal, financial and intimate. And it wont stop just because you decided to reconcile.

It's why I divorced after 35 years married/40 years together. Ex told me she was his friend and always would be. I was NOT going to be the third person in my own marriage.

[This message edited by hcsv at 2:17 PM, June 24th (Wednesday)]

allusions posted 6/24/2020 16:26 PM

Her approach now is why was it ok before but not now..and that how could we turn our back on friends because of this
You can tell her it was never ok with you, but the shock and disbelief over what happened made it difficult for you to understand what was best for you. Now you know.

She made the choice to sleep with him. She has shown you that she has poor boundaries and because she crossed a line with him there is no going backward. She needs to cut contact with him and his family. Those are the consequences.

BeyondRage posted 6/24/2020 16:43 PM

Is there ANYONE out there who successfully managed R with the AP still present?

Yup, its called open marriage or polyamory and right now she has had you as a willing participant in it.

Personally, I cannot imagine what you were thinking to allow this to get this far, but thats not important now. What is important is what you decide to do from here on out.

StrugglingCJ posted 6/24/2020 16:52 PM

Personally, I cannot imagine what you were thinking to allow this to get this far, but thats not important now. What is important is what you decide to do from here on out.

Simply put.. I was scared of losing my wife.. Ive loved her longer than i care to think.. And i did the pick me for too long.. Tried to be the nice guy... But it hasnt worked tbh. So it either changes or i put up with it.. And putting up with it isnt an option anymore..

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