SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

My BS presented me with this: She now wants to go out and have extramarital sex, and she wants my permission to do so. She justifies her desire by saying it would only be fair (and there's a bit of revenge too), at least she isn't lying like I did, it would make her feel desirable, and why shouldn't she get to enjoy the ego kibbles and great sex of "bubble world," etc.

On the one hand, I want to be open-minded and supportive of her needs. I get the "what's good for the goose is good for the gander" mentality. When we have had sex post-DDay, it's been emotionally conflicting for her; NSA sex wouldn't have those emotions, so she might be able to let go and enjoy sex a whole lot more. On the other hand, my one goal is for us to heal as a couple and reconcile, and I just don't see how my BS having extramarital sex, with our without my permission, is going to help us heal as a couple and lead us to reconciliation.

I'm in a bind: I can't say no because I did this for years without her knowledge and permission. I don't feel good about saying yes because I believe it will lead us away from R, and yes, it will hurt me emotionally.

We are not currently separated. We have 4 kids, 3 still living at home. I believe she is quite serious about this, and not just testing me.

I am curious to hear from both WS's and BS's out there. Have you had this conversation, and if so, what did you do about it? Where did it lead?

Bad idea. There is no way that will improve the situation. I am a BS. I understand wanting to know that I'm attractive to others since my WH seemed to see me as invisible. I've read other posts by BS that regret revenge sex. I guess I'm just old fashioned but you are still married and two wrongs don't make a right. If she wants to see other men then maybe this is her exit act. Just my 2cents...

Give her permission.

Let her just deal with the consequences. If she feels like shit afterwards, used, etc. fine, that is on her. Don't let her blame you for it.

You know the whole 'revenge' angle is way overstated. It is not about revenge. It is about seeing what someone else is like to be with since the physical relationship of the M is no longer special.

In a man's vernacular, it would be an attempt to make sure that you are not staying just because you are pussy-whipped.

My question is, why do you care - now ? How would it hurt you emotionally?

ETA: The permission aspect isn't really about permission. It is about trying to control the future. I would be honest with her: tell her she can make that choice. If it would be a deal breaker for you, tell her. If it wouldn't affect your commitment, tell her. If you really don't know how you will react, just tell her that.

I think you should at least insist on honesty and transparency - with her thinking and choices.

[This message edited by MC_Jack at 11:18 PM, September 6th (Saturday)]

If she truly has decided that she wants to, then there isn't any way to stop her, unfortunately. The scary part is that she may end up falling in love with another man. The reason I say that is she may feel like the bond between you is broken and can't be remade, but that doesn't mean she can't have a fulfilling bond with someone else.

I have made that suggestion (threat) to my WW as well, but I know deep down that I am a one-woman man. That's why I never cheated or even considered it before Dday. I know that if I do it, the OW will take my cheating wife's place in my heart as well as my bed. It isn't just a safe sex life that was stolen from her, it was a secure one-on-one bond.

To address MC jack's point, I don't think she'll feel used and I don't think she'll view it as "evening the score" because the game is already over, and she lost. Thatguynomore, did you feel used after you cheated?

I fear it would lead to the death of your already wounded marriage. If you say no, she might not care what you think, but if you say yes, then at least she has the option to not go through with it, and you'll know that your marriage is on solid footing. My wife said, "I can't stop you if that's what you want to do", and I still haven't done it, because I don't want to.

Good luck!

I don't think I could be okay with that. BS actually did have a one time encounter at a strip club (one of those special room deals) during the time I was deep in the affair. Although I was surprised when he admitted it (post D-day), I have never really held it against him as cheating and I actually forget about it most of the time. In spite of that, there is no way I would be okay with him seeking sex outside our relationship now. I'm different now. Integrity is important to me. And it's important to me in my partner.

BS here. Actually you can say no. You can say that if she cheats on you it would be a dealbreaker for you. She's allowed to think it's hypocritical of you. You are allowed to stand firm in that decision.

Having an affair isn't a need she has to heal. That doesn't even make sense. Do you feel better about yourself after having your affair?

She's being opportunistic and it's a sign she has poor boundaries herself. Of course you can't control her so if she's just looking for a good enough reason to cheat, she's going to see this as her chance.

Hopefully, it's just her pain talking and she won't actually do it. Although the depth of your discussion doesn't make it sound that way.

She will only be compounding the pain the two of you need to work through. More cheating only makes things harder. I'm not sure she will hear that from you or not but it doesn't make it less true.

You are absolutely allowed to say you won't stay with her if she cheats. If you aren't actively cheating and you are dedicated to R, it's not being hypocritical. But she's going to see things as SHE is and from the sounds of it, she's going to need IC as much as you do.

Bw here.... I can certainly understand her pain and feelings of no longer being desirable.

You know the whole 'revenge' angle is way overstated. It is not about revenge. It is about seeing what someone else is like to be with since the physical relationship of the M is no longer special.

In a man's vernacular, it would be an attempt to make sure that you are not staying just because you are pussy-whipped.

I disagree with those statements. Men and women are wired differently. For a woman to have sex with a guy, she needs to have developed an emotional connection first (there are very few exceptions to this). It's not about trying on a new guy for size. It's about getting our worth back, about feeling treasured.

Being a BW I felt like what was sacred in our marriage was given away so freely; that there was no longer something that was just "ours". I felt undesirable because of the act of giving what was my treasure, to some other woman.

When a spouse cheats it can make the BW feel worthless. I strongly do NOT recommend she sleep with someone else. It will not take the pain of your A away. It will never even the "score" because you would already know about it and will not be caught off guard. For a person to cheat there has to be something broken inside of them. Yes, your wife is now broken but an A will just break her even more than she already is.

Is there anybody she can talk to about this? Someone who has been betrayed (needs to be female)? I know if I said something like that and my exwh told me no he might have seen batshit crazy because he lost the right to say anything about it.

If she lets you, give her a hug, try to make her feel more desirable to you, apologize, and please be remorseful. She could be just saying this out of pain and not really wanting to do it.

BS here.

I would tell her exactly how you feel. You've been there, you've done that, you know how it will break her. You know quite well how broken it is to come out the other side of it.

Yes she can feel you are hypocritical to say "no." In the end, you don't have the role to give her "permission" or not. You can tell her how you feel, what you want in terms of R, how you hope to be the person who makes her feel desirable. Tell her your thoughts, your feelings. In the end her choices are hers and hers alone.

Is she in IC?

BGF here, and BtraydWife and Lark both hit precisely on what I had planned to say.

In a nutshell... Don't do it. Encourage her not to do it. As BtraydWife said, two wrongs don't make a right... In what fantasy land would your BS having extramarital sex make things "better?" All it would do is further damage a marriage that's already fighting to hold itself together.

After my WBF's A, I won't lie, the thought did occur to me that I could go out and have a little fun of my own-- But that thought lasted all of 30 seconds. It's been important to me, before this and throughout it, that I maintain my integrity. I treated his AP with good manners, better than she deserved, and have fought every urge I've had to do anything underhanded towards her-- The explanation I've offered throughout it all is that "ONE of us has to still be able to look our reflection in the eye."

That's what it boils down to, in my mind, and if your BS goes out on the prowl in some misguided effort to "even the odds," all she'll really be doing is further lowering her opinion of herself when all is said and done.

Then she should file for divorce, and she can get a divorce and have all the extramarital sex she wants, it will just reinforce the feelings of worthlessness that she already has.

On your end, part of your healing, and in building a successful constructive relationship, is proper enforcement of YOUR boundaries. WS's commit infidelities because of poor boundaries around their primary relationship.

Her doing it would be demonstrating poor boundary setting around her primary relationship, which is with you.

You allowing it would be the same.

The issue with her reasoning is 1, it's immature and 2. So when is the score "even"? With her reasoning, all kinds of things can be justified in a marriage if it's a response to something your spouse did.

I understand her pain, and what is likely a wish to feel desirable again. But using wrong means to soothe herself is a disease upon your M that can and will escalate itself over time.

Regardless of your history, thatguy, you have the right to draw lines in the sand about what values are essential to be upheld in your marriage.

I think what may be more important here is looking at why she's feeling the need to do this. I can tell you that as a BGF, the main reason I'd go through with it is because I'd want my WBF to hurt like I do. Currently I don't feel like he gets the immense pain and damage he's done. And I don't see all the changes I should have seen. In fact I feel like he's gone backwards.

So is there a chance your wife is feeling any of these things? Are you doing everything to prove to her your're true and safe? And even more importantly actually living that life? And while you may believe you are, does she?

Something's missing from your R for her to feel this way. She may go through with this, but I think what's most important here is finding out the truth about why she is opening herself up to doing this.

I wish you both well.....

BS here, oh boy have I felt like this! I still do from time to time and R is going great.

I won't do it though. It helps that I can see how much pain fwh is in. Then there is the fact that even though I think I could separate love from sex it could open such a can of worms. What if I loved the sex? Could I really not go back for more? What if I fell in love and really connected to the guy? It may start with revenge sex but who knows where it could end?

On the other hand, What if I hated it and felt cheap after? I have a feeling that I would end up feeling like I had abused myself if that makes sense. Going out a grabbing some guy just to even the score.

It disturbs me that I even had these thoughts. I have always been a faithful wife and I have no intention of changing for the reasons stated above. I believe it's a really common reaction but really shouldn't be acted on. If ws is truly remorseful and you want to R, it would just create more problems imo.

Saying that H did say he would forgive me if I did and that in itself helped to make me see I could never do it.

Remember,

Just because you are the WS, it doesn't give your BS carte blanche to do whatever she wants. And you already know this.

I'll be honest--this thought has probably passed through many a betrayed's mind shortly after D-day. And it took me a long time to realize that I would be lowering myself to my WW's level....no matter how much I refused to believe otherwise.

The bottom line is--why would you *give* permission to allow your partner to be self destructive? You know that's rhetorical---it is only guilt that would allow you consent. But I like MC Jack's quote:

ETA: The permission aspect isn't really about permission. It is about trying to control the future. I would be honest with her: tell her she can make that choice. If it would be a deal breaker for you, tell her. If it wouldn't affect your commitment, tell her. If you really don't know how you will react, just tell her that.

I think you should at least insist on honesty and transparency - with her thinking and choices.

Yup.

It would only be fair.

What she may be failing to consider here, is that she will be relinquishing the moral high ground. Fair. Sure. Because now she will be a lowlife cheater, too.

Ultimately you can't allow or forbid her to do anything. Tell her to make her choice, just like you did. And choices have consequences. Those kibbles can be very expensive.

No you can't fix a problem with a problem

Oh what a mess!

As a BW, I remember thinking how unfair it was that he was my one and only...and I no longer was his one and only. I remember thinking about all the men who'd made passes at me, who I'd shut down straight away.

Now I would never go further than that, but I can see how your BW has got to this point. Really, it's probably either a form of denial (trying to distract herself from your A with one of her own, trying to make herself feel better, but not really addressing the real issues) or a form of revenge (now you'll understand how it feels etc) or perhaps both.

What she doesn't yet see, is that this is totally self destructive thinking. You know this, because you've done it. It's one of those things where, for some people, they can't grasp it til they're in the mess. I'm hoping she isn't one of them...but she may be.

Despite what you've done and how hypocritical it seems, you have every DUTY to say no you don't agree to this. You're now fighting for her and your M. Both are vulnerable and need protecting. You can't stop her doing this, but you can be clear on how you feel. Yo also need to work out if this will be a dealbreaker for you...it's ok if it is, you're allowed to end your M if she does this, despite being a WS yourself.

BS here...I get wanting to feel desired, but not at the expense of others. It is not something you should have to endure. You can say no and set boundaries if R is your goal. Don't assist with her wayward slip.

Ummm...I don't see this as an A or cheating at all. The harm caused to the BS comes from the lies and deceit not the sex.

She is approaching you in an honest, open, and transparent way. It's (eta:the communication) healthy and mature. It is the opposite of an A.

You have the opportunity to be just as honest and open with her about how you feel about it. You can agree, disagree, or come to some sort of compromise.

[This message edited by AFrayedKnot at 8:55 AM, September 7th (Sunday)]

I can't say no because I did this for years without her knowledge and permission.

you can. you really can.

there is no "fair" in relationships. The you got to do it so I got to do it...really? is a tit for tat relationship what you want? I'm with the folks here who say a healthy relationship has boundaries. If it's a dealbreaker for you tell her so.

Most of our BS want us to feel the same pain they do. So think of it, then you now have all sorts of pain to deal with. How on earth do people think inviting more pain into the relationship is conducive to recovery?

There is a poster here who told her WH she was going to do it, did it and it nearly destroyed her. She had more pain as a WS than a BS.

Your wife needs to sit down and figure out what she values. Justice? or Mercy?