SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I'll try to stick to the point as a lot has happened over the last few days, married 15 years and been together 21 years, 2 children aged 8 & 10. I found out by chance lately that my wife has been getting overly close to one her "friends". I confronted her 5 days ago so I appreciate emotions are still well and truly flying, so here's what's really bothering me at this point.

D-Day

I confront her, she breaks down, lots of crying not much talking, I demand the truth from her, I already had some proof of her whereabouts and some of her search history however she trickle-truthed me, I got the following out of her: who it was, roughly how long it's been going on, but no details other than her whereabouts. When I told her that I had found her search history for things like "sex health clinic" and "can you get pregnant without ejaculation" 2 DAYS AFTER SHE RETURNED FROM HER LAST HOTEL STAY WITH HIM!! she brushed it off that she was looking at that because she wanted to go back to birth control pills <<< I said you go to your doctor for that not a sex health clinic where they check for STDs!!!! I also checked her phone, she deleted ALL HISTORY of any interactions with him.

Day 2

I manage to get her to talk again about the affair, more trickle-truthing, she admits to kissing him, cuddling, she has stayed in the same room with him many times yet (you'll love this) there's been no sexual activity, I keep telling her I don't believe her, I am also by this stage getting frustrated as I've had to extract all of the little tidbits out of her. She claims he's actually impotent and so said it would've never happened anyway, you're telling me that an impotent person has never heard of Viagra??? I mentioned therapy and she completely brushed it off. I also told her if she was that sorry she would cease contact, but she shrugged that off too.

Since then

Due to my frustration in getting the real truth out (and not just the stuff I know already) I told her it was the truth or we were done, this hasn't worked, she's continued to see this person frequently since I found out, claiming all interactions to be harmless. I told her if we had any chance she would have to cease any social or other contact, she's not willing to do that and even said why can't they continue to be friends but "I'll be more honest (heh) with you and we can work on our marriage". She's also told me she is confused right now and needs time to reflect, in my heart I know that she has feelings for him that are strong but to suggest that she can have her cake and eat it is what I'm struggling with right now, she doesn't understand what I'm going through and clearly is still looking out for No.1. She also doesn't seem to understand why it can't be this way, I have said if shes still involved with him in any way it will intoxicate our relationship and I will be miserable not knowing, again, what's going on.

She is also trying to give me her love when I actually need her honesty, she wants to keep as much from me as possible in the hope that I will forget it and move on, but I know deep down I'm an emotional person who thinks too much and I know I can't maintain that.

I know this is early days so I've agreed we need more time, I don't have concrete evidence that she's not telling me the truth, but the fact that she hasn't openly told me everything without an interrogation tells me she will continue to lie, and right now that is the biggest hurdle I'm facing, because I will not spend the rest of my life with a liar. This isn't the first time either, when we were engaged she also cheated, and guess what? She never really told me the whole story, I was young and at the time and thought, well people make mistakes and hoped it would be fine from here.

Should I give it more time or am I beating a dead horse here? Am I being reasonable to demand the whole story? What sort of person am I actually dealing with here? Because whoever they are, I'm losing respect for them by the day.

Cheaters lie a lot. You don't go to a hotel except for sex. ED is probably a lie. This was planned out.

Talk will get you nothing.

Inform the other mans wife without warning. You may get more info that way.

You teach people how they can treat you. She's done this before and it got rug swept so she's banking on that happening again.

Welcome to the best place you never hoped to find, mantorok.

I am so sorry for the circumstances that brought you here.

I don't have concrete evidence that she's not telling me the truth

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is a duck. My friend you didn't walk in on them having sex, that's true. But you have a lot of evidence so keep trusting your gut. Your gut is what made you find us.

She is gaslighting you right now. She is intentionally trying to get you to not trust your own mind, eyes, ears and intuition. She is trying to keep you off balance and manipulate you into backing off, just like she did the first time she cheated.

First, you and she need to go get a full STD panel. NOW. She has risked your health without your permission and that is unconscionable in my book. How dare she! Her response to that will tell you more about her mindset.

You are being completely reasonable demanding the entire story. It's your life. Have you considered a polygraph for her? Her response to that will also tell you a lot, and you will probably get a parking lot confession.

I told her it was the truth or we were done, this hasn't worked, she's continued to see this person frequently since I found out, claiming all interactions to be harmless. I told her if we had any chance she would have to cease any social or other contact, she's not willing to do that and even said why can't they continue to be friends but "I'll be more honest (heh) with you and we can work on our marriage".

She is used to you not following through and she is used to calling the shots. To me, she is completely disrespectful to you and the family.

If I heard this, I would march myself to a lawyer to find out the realities of my situation first. I would lock down all finances to protect everything from her stealing it. I would consider installing a VAR in her car or other places and installing a key logger.

Have you found the healing library over on the left? More will be along soon. Again, I'm so sorry.

Thanks for the replies.

The last thing I said to her was that I don't want to talk to her or hear from her unless its to tell me everything and be honest. My gut tells me I will be waiting a long time for that.

I've also told her to let me go and stop punishing me, that I feel trapped and powerless to do anything because she is closing me off and not fessing up.

She gave me some bullshit last night about how he was the one encouraging her and said he was coming on strong, does that sound like someone with ED to you??

I've also told her to let me go and stop punishing me, that I feel trapped and powerless to do anything because she is closing me off and not fessing up.

Good start mantorok.

Why do you need her to let you go? Can you be the one to let her go? My friend, you do not need to wait on her. It is OK to make decisions that are in the best interests of you and the kids.

Maybe if you craft a "To Do List" it could help.

for example my list was:

1. Schedule STD test ASAP

2. Consultation with several lawyers to discover the legal lay of the land in case I decided to divorce. Also discover the laws regarding asking him to leave the residence, and also how to approach this in the best interests of my children.

3. IC for myself

What would your list look like?

Are you able to eat, drink and sleep right now?

I’m sorry but how do you get to a point where you agree to let your W stay in a hotel with another man, old friend or whatever, on a regular basis. Maybe I’m not understanding the situation correctly. But I trust my W implicitly as she does me but neither of us would allow this. There are boundaries neither of us would cross and that is definitely one of them.

So, at this point, with her not seeing an issue with anything she’s been doing, you don’t really have anything to work with. So the only real path forward that will work is to detach and heal yourself.

Have you read THE 180 found at this site in THE HEALING LIBRARY in the yellow box in the upper left.

Don’t beg her. Don’t do the pick-me dance. I want to say this to you: there is NOT ONE friend I wouldn’t drop immediately if they made my wife feel uncomfortable. She’s my number one priority. That’s how marriage should work.

You know what’s happened. Even if it was just a kiss that should mean the end of the friendship. She’s gone further than that, you know it, but a kiss is enough.

There will be no possibility of healing while she’s still pining for him, in love with him, in “the fog” with him.

So detach. Stop interacting. Only discuss finances when necessary. Tell her there’s nothing more to discuss if this man is in your lives and in her heart. I’d tell her “it’s obvious you have feelings for this man, so you are free to go explore them. I won’t keep you from your happiness. In the meantime I will take the steps necessary to move on with my life. You have broken my heart, I am going to find my way back to happiness without you”

Then implement the 180, talk to a lawyer and find a Good IC to help you thru this pain.

Keep posting and stay strong.

The only one who can keep you bound up in this is you.

Read the 180. It works if you apply it fully

Mantorok, you are being completely reasonable. She should consider that many people would have left right at d day. You shouldn't have to force everything. She wants it all her way. Anyway, you know all this and now it's for you to make your choice. Some people will never give you what you ask for no matter how long you wait.

If you feel helpless. Try the 180. It works for most people. You feel better and your WS snaps back to reality or you realize it's a lost cause.

In any case, holding out your hand hasn't worked yet. Odd isnt it, how they cling to those lies that sound ridiculous. Keep asserting that you know that's not accurate. You may never get the truth but don't let her go on with the games.

I’m sorry but how do you get to a point where you agree to let your W stay in a hotel with another man, old friend or whatever, on a regular basis. Maybe I’m not understanding the situation correctly. But I trust my W implicitly as she does me but neither of us would allow this. There are boundaries neither of us would cross and that is definitely one of them.

That's not really what she was implying, it was more, continue to see him but with no funny business.

Ridiculous isn't it? I mean, how would that work? Why would I be ok with her spending time with him just because she's not going to shack up with him when the nights over????

Thank you for all your replies, they are all helping.

So detach. Stop interacting. Only discuss finances when necessary. Tell her there’s nothing more to discuss if this man is in your lives and in her heart. I’d tell her “it’s obvious you have feelings for this man, so you are free to go explore them. I won’t keep you from your happiness. In the meantime I will take the steps necessary to move on with my life. You have broken my heart, I am going to find my way back to happiness without you”

I tried this tact, I told her to go for it and work with her new-found man, but she kept saying that she still loves me, however I'm regretting giving her more time to decide, I know that I'm going to go down the D route anyway, because deep down, even if she did fess up (which she won't) to everything and I got the whole picture, I would've been too hurt by that point due to how she's tried to keep me in the dark AND continue to see him.

She's being really selfish and I've told her that, I asked her if the shoe were on the other foot then there's no way she would let me carry on staying in touch with another female, and she tried to say "No I wouldn't mind", and I just said "How can you say that without having gone through what I've gone through?".

She has no idea what I'm going through and keeps trying to convince me and herself that she's being reasonable. After telling me how sorry she was for hurting me she's now makes sarcastic comments like "well, 2 days ago you said you wanted a divorce!" and "those emails you sent me (the day after I found out) really hurt me!" as if I was the one behaving irrationally. She actually is trying to make me guilty for wanting to kick her the fuck out.

I've never felt so disgusted by the way she's acted and is acting now.

P.S. Can someone tell me what a VAR is?

Mantorok: Read the various threads here about the 180. You need to implement the hardest 180 you can at this point.

The point of this forum is surviving infidelity. It is not "saving marriages." Your WW is not married to you at present. If I were you, I'd begin a D right away. That is of course your choice but the D process is slow and your wife is saying things like she's not even sure she wants to be with you.

She's also told me she is confused right now and needs time to reflect, in my heart I know that she has feelings for him that are strong

No, she doesn’t have “feelings” for him.

He’s just a new, different guy that is telling her all the shit he knows that she wants to hear and she is having sex with him in exchange for it.

She’s just one of zillions out there that just can’t feel validated in and of themselves and are constantly seeking someone else to provide a sense of affirmation, importance, and desirability.

She’s addicted to the dopamine-rush she gets from the new-guy, new-relationship, bullshit fantasy she’s built up in her mind.

You are the same guy she’s been with for 21 years, knows everything about you, and is the father of her children.

To her, you now represent 21 years of the same guy, kids, parenting issues, bills, household chores, typical marital issues, and someone who she feels she can get away with infidelity because you looked the other way before and still married her.

That said, the big thing here to know with certainty is that her infidelity has nothing to do with you or your marriage.

I’ll say it again: your adulterous wife’s infidelity has nothing to do with you nor has it anything to do with your marriage. Period.

Adultery/infidelity has nothing to do with a bad marriage, a good marriage, marital problems, or marriage at all.

She isn’t doing this because of anything you did or did not do nor because of anything you said or did not say.

Adultery/infidelity is a not a marital failure - it is a personal failure on her part and hers alone.

Her reasons for doing this existed within her long, long before you ever met her.

I had to deal with the same trickle-truthing, gas-lighting, lies, denials, contempt, disrespect, and all the other associated bullshit that comes with this horrific shit-show.

The absolute worst part was the effect on the kids.

Make sure, most of all, that they are being protected.

Right now, your wife is fucking-over in the worst way, her very own children for the sake of her extreme selfishness and she doesnt give a fuck about anything else execept protecting the fantasy and her adultery partner who is helping with the fantasy.

Your kids are feeling the tension and uncertainty and are in fear right now.

Right now, you are in HER world of infidelity - you are actually in the fantasy with her - involuntarily cast as the villain and being treated as such.

You need to get yourself and your children OUT of her world of infidelity first and foremost.

Do not linger in the horrific world of being in limbo and letting an adulterous liar dictate what happens in YOUR life and your CHILDRENS lives- you MUST be decisive.

Don’t ask, but FIRMLY TELL HER what you want and what you need.

If she continues her behavior then it’s time to consider a divorce filing with the genuine intent to divorce her.

Continuing to live with some like this and treating you and your children with utter disregard and contempt is no way for anyone to live and sure as hell no way for children to grow up.

Post and read here often.

You will get some very good advice from people who have been through the same exact thing as you and have made all the classic mistakes in dealing with it.

They will be able to help you avoid the mistakes and get out of this hell.

[This message edited by keptmyword at 8:32 PM, July 15th (Sunday)]

Brilliant post keptmyword, spot on.

She even admitted that she fell for his bullshit, yet still tried to make me feel somehow responsible for not showing her the same attention that he did.

P.S. Can someone tell me what a VAR is?

Voice activated recorder. Get them at Best Buy, Walmart, etc

The thing is you only know what you've caught.

I'd bet it's only the "tip of the iceberg".

I've agreed we need more time

Let me be blunt because I made the exact same mistakes. What you agreed to is to let her continue the affair without consequences. You agreed to continue to have a marriage with another man in it. You agreed to accept lies because you don't have proof to counter every one of them. You agreed to accept being treated with a lack of love and respect. You are showing her for the second time that she can get away with this and that you'll accept the abuse.

What sort of person am I actually dealing with here?

A serial cheater. You are dealing with someone who has a deep character gap that they are trying to fill with ego kibbles. Your WS is, in effect, "self-medicating" by pursuing attention from other men. In a way, the outward results look similar to an addiction -- irrational and unhealthy all while she is willing to throw away everything else in order to get one more high. And now that she knows some of the ways you caught her, she will use that to better hide things from you. Just to be clear -- this says nothing about you and isn't because of anything you did. However, it also means that you can't fix the root of all of this -- only your WS can decide to do that.

What your WS is doing right now is fencesitting/cake eating. She wants to continue to get attention from the OM, but doesn't want to lose all the benefits that she has with you. If you will stick around, that suits her just fine. If you will do the Pick Me! Dance (trying to "compete" with the OM by being extra nice), even better as she then gets the ego kibbles from two men at the same time. Now that you know about the affair, she may even become more bold and try to take advantage of the free babysitting, homecare and income you provide while spending more time with the OM.

It is time to knock her off the fence. Consequences are the only thing that might awake her to the character Gap within. Let her know that you aren't interested in a marriage with another person in it and that extra time isn't needed -- her inability to commit tells you that she isn't interested in keeping her vows, that she has abandoned the marriage and that she is more committed to the other man than to you. Then, in contrast to previous times, follow through on your statement. If you don't, it further reinforces that she can abuse you however much she wants. Don't threaten -- do. Serve her with divorce papers. Expose the affair to the OM's wife. Let your WS see that she can't sit on the fence. Let her experience that the fantasyland she has been living in isn't all it is cracked up to be.

She's also told me she is confused right now and needs time to reflect, in my heart I know that she has feelings for him that are strong

Translation: she needs time to decide whether to stay with you plan B or go full out with her new plan A man.

If it were me I'd be making my own decisions versus letting her decide my fate.

I've agreed we need more time

Why? Sometimes you're better of making a decision rather than wallow in indecision.

If the other man is married you need to expose this.

Making the affair as inconvenient and as uncomfortable as possible to continue.

You can't nice your way out of this.

Your old lady has checked out already and she knows you aren't going anywhere, and because of this she has no problem dismissing you and your boundaries that will protect the marriage.

Sorry man but I have a feeling your old lady could careless about the marriage.....her reputation ya but as long as you keep this affair in the dark it will thrive.

Look up the 180 and start implementing it.It will at least show her you have enough self respect in no longer sharing her with another man.

Chicks dig confident men....stop doing the pick me dance and show her you have no problem letting her.

This is going to be the hardest thing in your life just don't let her know it and JUST LET HER GO!

Once you get her to start thinking what she is losing she might come around.... but dude...I think she's already checked out.

From were I'm sitting she is yet to think twice about her choices because …...again she think you ain't going anywhere.

Go get a shave and a hair cut, buy some new cloths, and get to the gym more. Show your old lady you have no problem letting her go by distancing your self and doing the 180.

If you have any chance at saving this your old lady has to chase after you!

Translation: she needs time to decide whether to stay with you plan B or go full out with her new plan A man.

If it were me I'd be making my own decisions versus letting her decide my fate.

Ok, so here's a curveball she threw at me, she said she doesn't have any interest in spending the rest of her life with him (he is 11 years older) and still claims he's like a "gay-friend", which is funny because I don't think gay friends kiss each other and sleep in the same bed!

What I did discover was that after her so-called remorse she visited him EVERY night when she should've been talking to me, but every time I get to her when we chat she decides shes had enough talking.

There's just no devotion to saving it, I know what I need to do, and your responses are convincing me of that.

I also did start looking at the 180 as well which looks good, I'm going on holiday on my own for the first time ever, I also told her when I get back I wanted her out, problem is I can't legally do that but this morning I told her that I would move out if I could but can't because I'm paying the mortgage.

This will make you laugh too, because I'm going on holiday on my own she was like "if you think I'm staying in every night when you're away you got another thing coming". I will tell her before I jet off to make sure she doesn't fuck him in our house or let him meet my kids.

By that point (6 days away) I will have definitely decided on the D-route.

To respond to some people, the OM is separated and kids grown up. I did consider contacting his wife when I first heard but this little tidbit came out during my interrogation, funny that she never mentioned it before isn't it?