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Please talk to me about mental health crisis and cheating.

Is there anyone whose WS was clearly in the throes of depression and or alcoholism during the affair? Any WS out there who realise they were depressed at the time of the affair? How much did the depression play a part in the affair?

I can’t find much on it, and I’m keen to discuss it. I’m really looking for those who reconciled or are trying to with this sort of background to the affair.

[This message edited by Dragonfly123 at 4:11 AM, January 12th (Sunday)]

This is exactly what my WS said as well....I hope you get some good insight from others. He says he was unhappy and suicidal at the time of his affair, and she never sought help. Just had the affair instead.

I am following this thread so I can gain insight as well. Thanks for posting.

Following my affair my IC had me do a depression test and I scored high on the scale. I never thought on my self as being depressed and tried to minimize the diagnosis as it seemed too convenient an excuse. Going through IC I realized I was depressed through my 1 year A and for a few years prior to it as well. In my case the depression likely played a part in my seeking out the A. The AP fed my ego by making me feel valued, important and desired. The excitement of the illicit nature of the affair and the sex fed the uplifting chemicals into my body.

If you read blogs by remorseful men many of them talk about long term depression. They then often turn to alcohol and affairs.

If you consider yourself a happy person most of the time then trying to understand chronic depression is hard to do. When you get sad you know the reason. There is no reason for long term depression unless it is physical. It runs in some families. It is in my husband’s family and my adult children are on medication for it.

No excuse for cheating but often the high from cheating is the only time their brains put out enough “happy” hormones to take them momentarily out of depression. They could get the same rush from sky diving or bungee jumping.

[This message edited by Cooley2here at 6:37 AM, January 12th (Sunday)]

This fits my FWH to a T. I didn’t see the depression, but then we had four young kids and I was working..... so I was kind of busy.

This resonates with some of the things he said. The A was like a drug. He knew he shouldn’t, but the excitement of doing something he shouldn’t made him feel better and then after he felt horrible, but he’d see AP again because it made him feel better. H was at the point where he should have been admitted to a hospital because of his mental status.

MC & IC helped me understand that it has nothing to do with the AP and it wasn’t because I wasn’t enough, it was because H was suffering from severe depression and that was his poor way to cope along with drinking heavily.

I won’t say we’re totally R. To me that’s a happy place where we were pre A. I think R is something you have to choose every day to participate in. I will day we made it through R. I don’t think of the A very much. I trust him as much as I possibly can, it’ll never be a innocent trust like before.

Both my husband and i have depression and anxiety. All of our affairs occurred during particularly severe periods of depression for each of us, and most of the time we were unmedicated. I dont know which lead to the other though or if they exacerbated each other. Probably the two spiralled together because our affairs involved a lot of poor coping skills and avoidance behaviour.

Yes. My WS had a mental break - disassociation - during the time of the A. His first IC said it brought him back from the abyss - that was a hard pill for me to swallow.

I think while it is true that mental illness plays a part, we need to be careful not to allow it to be a crutch for the behavior. My WS was having a serious mental issue AND he was also able to gaslight and lie, manipulate and deceive during his A. He did however do things that were so brazen it makes one wonder about mental acuity at that time.

The reconciliation is long and winding. The most important part is for each individual, WS and BS to heal themselves. I cannot state this strongly enough - many say it here but early on it just doesn't always resonate. These are separate paths for the most part so that you can come together as healed individuals and determine how to move forward together - if possible.

It is working for me today however I went through months and months of being sure we wouldn't make it. That's normal so don't rush it. Just get healed and understand how to thrive after such a trauma.

[This message edited by ISurvivedSoFar at 10:34 AM, January 12th (Sunday)]

Raises hand. My H was depressed. Prior to his A he had a job he hated. We were at that point where the kids are in school we are both working hard. I had a newer job that put me at higher earner than him at base salary. Even with that money was tight.

Prior to the A he had changed jobs to what I thought was a great fit for him and was hopeful that the anger and depression he had would go away. Unfortunately he was looking for his happiness in others instead of making himself happy.

I believe this is very common in As that occur as a result of a midlife crisis or a quarter life crisis. Meaning you get to paint in adulthood where the focus is on work and kids and you lose yourself a bit and there is no real end in sight for another 10 years at minimum and it becomes overwhelming to some with no or shitty coping skills.

Post Dday we both realized that we are responsible for our own happiness and feeling fulfilled in life. I was CoD so I had to make a lot of changes and he had to make changes to learn how to deal with his depression. Upon Dday he had legit reasons to be depressed. He had lost his job due to the market crash, his A was outed, and he was about to lose EVERYTHING he ever had or had worked for. This was an eye opener and he really dug in and made some real changes.

So yes depression often plays some part in As. People look for happiness, who kibbles, fantasy to escape the drudgery of real life.

At the end of the day it's up to each of us as individuals to make the changes that help us be happy and fulfilled for some that's going to mean therapy and meds. For others it means making real changes to our lives. But whatever it takes it is up to that person to fix it. no one else can do it for them.

Please talk to me about mental health crisis and cheating.

IMO, there are lots of ways one can try to "self-soothe" or distract from inner pain -- alcohol, video games, smoking/vaping, other drugs, gambling, food, etc. And there are other external behaviors that can be traced back to internal character/formative issues that often have roots in FOO (family of origin) -- depression, adventurism, etc. My point being that the outward symptoms/behaviors point to something much deeper and until it is identified and dealt with, the problem remains.

So, yes, you'll find WS's who were in depression and/or alcoholism. I have a friend whose WH has been a closet alcoholic for a long time and, recently, she found out that he had also been a serial cheater for years as well. But depression and/or alcoholism isn't the cause -- it is more of a sign that the WS was already in a position where an A could be a possibility.

However, as an opposing path, I think that you'll be able to find BS's who have depression and aren't the ones that cheat. In my case, I was the depressed spouse and my own unhealthy struggle with my self-image was pursuing codependency.

I’m really looking for those who reconciled or are trying to with this sort of background to the affair.

I think the bottomline is that a WS needs to want to accept responsibility and is willing to put in the hard work to dig deeply to uncover their character gap(s). Especially where there is depression and/or alcoholism in addition to infidelity, there is clearly something deep within that is contributing to that behavior. The key is that this is the WS's battle to fight -- you can't fix him/her, they need the self-motivation/commitment to continue forward without settling on excuses and they'll need to sort out what false assumptions/beliefs reside deep inside that they need to change.

Post dday WH said he 'discovered' he was depressed. But he'd been having an EA for years before the PA began (I think there is something seriously broken for anyone to have an LTA - something going on above & beyond a shorter, or 'situational' A, JMO). And at the time his EA went PA, I was very much aware that he was turning into a royal arsehole - begged him to see an IC or get MC, so I guess I don't see it as much of a 'discovery' rather than being forced to admit he's not fucking superman.

I think while it is true that mental illness plays a part, we need to be careful not to allow it to be a crutch for the behavior. My WS was having a serious mental issue AND he was also able to gaslight and lie, manipulate and deceive during his A.

This is super important IMO. IOW, they are ALL broken in some way in order to allow themselves to go down the road to an A. I've always kind of thought the same about murderers - IOW, I never understood why there was such a bother about an insanity defense: anyone who murders another (outside of SELF defense) is not mentally competent... but that matters not to the family who lost a loved one. To me, the principles are the same - whatever 'reasons' my WH was mentally incompetent to remain faithful do not lessen the devastation left in his wake.

Thanks to you all for your replies, I’ve read and reread them.

Isurvivedsofar I think that’s exactly my problem. I saw the man I love very much, so so poorly (I only began to realise how poorly he was, as he started to get better) that I struggle to be angry anymore at what he’s done. Don’t get me wrong I’m angry that it happened to me and my children, the rage still comes from nowhere but I’m not angry at him. Trouble is, I don’t know where he starts and the mental health crisis ends, or vice verse if that makes sense. I feel like he’s got a ‘get out of jail free’ card and that it’s not deserved. But I’m a professional with some experience of mental health problems in families, I know how it consumes, so I bring all that to the table.

I’m also struggling with the feeling that he was ‘vulnerable’ (for want of a better word) and that the AP took advantage of this. Which is stupid thinking, so I don’t need 2x4s , but she was extremely dominant, the driver behind the affair ( I read the texts) and laughed at me when I asked her to leave us alone so his family and I could help him. This was despite him clearly self harming and becoming a shell of himself. At his worse, I was terrified of what he’d do to himself and I find it difficult not to hate her for dragging him down that far.

Empathy is a gift and a bloody curse. How do you hold your WS accountable knowing that they weren’t well?

[This message edited by Dragonfly123 at 3:05 PM, January 12th (Sunday)]

Dragonfly I think you'll find that in time the real H will come out. Despite the mental health issues, there is a person whose behavior and actions post d-day will tell you what you need to know.

In my case, I thought my WS was such a good guy and a person who thought of others and especially me. After the fog lifted for both of us I found the real person and that person was very broken (aren't we all). It could be one begets the other who knows? But he certainly was unable to think of me only he was under the illusion he was thinking of me. That process was very eye opening.

While I understood the mental issue, it didn't excuse the behavior afterwards and therefore led me down the road of understanding that he knew enough and was lucid enough to know to deceive me. In other words, he clearly knew it was wrong and decided consciously to keep the charade going to my detriment.

Here's how I managed. I told my WS that he had some work to do and was at a disadvantage in our M with regard to his betrayal. I noted that I would take ownership of my part of the M but not ownership of any part of his infidelity. He didn't like that - he wanted them fused but they couldn't be because only one of us strayed.

Understanding why it happened doesn't excuse it nor make it okay. It took me some time to stop making allowances for his behavior and to put up strong boundaries. Once I did that and he did the work, things changed.

How do you hold your WS accountable knowing that they weren’t well?

Because the depression didn't make him do it. He still had choices. He chose wrong. Why didn't he seek help from a professional?

I have had depression since I was probably 13 or 14 years old. First diagnosed at 15. I have been very depressed over the years. I've never cheated. Even at 15, I knew I needed professional help and I asked for it. I get a bit pissed when people try to use something like depression as a plausible reason why someone wasn't fully responsible for himself.

My fch was at the lowest point of his life when he cheated. That's what he told me. Looking back at photos from that time, I can see it on his face. The MOW recognized that and took advantage, much like it sounds the OW in your situation did. She was the aggressor. She's the one who instigated everything. I was so angry at her for doing that to him.

But, at the end of the day, he was responsible for himself. He had all kinds of professional services available to him for free. Before he cheated, I took him to therapy with me because I knew something was wrong. I implored him to talk to a friend, the chaplain. He chose not to take advantage of anything that was available to him.

Alcoholism isn't an acceptable excuse for cheating, either. There are lots of people who drink too much, maybe to the point of being alcoholic, who do not cheat.

Two years before he began his A WH had a breakdown. He refused to acknowledge it or get help. I'm not suggesting that he was constantly in a mental flux, but he was very different to his normal self. His disconnect got worse over the months before he began the A, and I have been convinced all along that it was a big factor in what he did. But it does not in any way excuse it. I have suffered clinical depression for years and would never cheat...

But once the A stopped and he was out of the fog WH did so much work on himself and is now back to even better than he was pre breakdown. And he has done all the work himself. We started MC but I was verbally abused by the counsellor and it was traumatising for both of us, so much so that we can't face any further counselling yet. So I am impressed by how my WH has worked on himself. He now acknowledges the breakdown, which he didn't before. He is contrite and appalled at his behaviour.

As Cooley says it’s very hard to understand depression if you’ve never suffered from it. So I bring an understanding from my role professionally and supporting friends through but depression and how it affects the way you think and behave, is something I have no personal frame of reference for.

I’m two years out this month and I admit that last year was entirely focused on my husband’s break down after the affair and I was so concerned about him, and the impact on my family, I think the affair got brushed under the rug to some degree. It’s now, as he’s getting better that I realise we need to tackle things and it’s how I do that and what allowances for his mental state i give and that’s probably where I’m a bit stuck. But what you’re saying makes sense. I need to separate the depression out from the character flaws that he has which enabled the affair.

As he gets better he’s the man I married. Totally devoted to the children and me, but those flaws are still there hidden away and we need to tackle them head on. This bit is tough for me because I find talking about it all extremely distressing (I’m the natural rugsweeper I guess) and have always preferred to not rock boats and skip through life with the least drama possible. But I know I have to ‘woman’ up a bit and face what has happened, and unpicking the depression and cheating and it’s link was my first step.

Chicklette my WH has done all the work himself so far too, I have to be honest I’m pretty proud of how hard he’s worked. I couldn’t have imagined where we are now, we remain separated but we’re moving forward.

What’s clear is that his mental health is fragile and he needs to have a number of strategies in place to deal with his low moods before it consumes him to self destruct again.

Hi Dragonfly

I haven’t posted in a while but this topic and especially your last post we’re something I strongly identified with.

WW has been treated for depression for all of our relationship ( 20+ years) . 6 years ago we lost our daughter shortly after birth in circumstances that led to my W (unreasonably) blaming herself. She (we?) never dealt with that trauma fully and it exacerbated her low self worth that was and is at the core of her depression. There’s some FOO issues there as well. Along came a high status COW AP. Well you can fill in the blanks.

Anyway my understanding of her whys has helped in a rational way even though my betrayal trauma has affected me enormously. Her depression has affected our recovery so much as we’ve had to pause and restart on various occasions, primarily due to her feeling overloaded. I’ve definitely been resentful of that but tried to be supportive. It’s been key that she has never blamed the depression and has taken full responsibility for her actions.

I recognise what you say about the difficulties in separating the depression from the person. Honestly I don’t think that’s your job. You can only deal with what he presents to you and if he doesn’t communicate or deal well enough then it has to be on him.

My attitude moving forward is a variation of the old saying round here; I can’t fix her and I’m not going to try. That’s not how I viewed things pre-A but there’s nothing like an A to make you re-evaluate your approach! She (like me) has primary responsibility for her own welllbeing. If I feel she isn’t taking that responsibility there will be some tough love applied making that point.

I ‘m not suggesting I won’t be there for her when she needs me. Just that she’ll need to show me she’s working at not running from what’s going on in her head.

I was in the middle of what people used to refer to as a nervous breakdown. Now it's called severe emotional exhaustion. There was a point they wanted to admit me.

I agree with the others, it's not an excuse to cheat, nor have I used it as such. What was helpful about it is it showed to me how clearly I had been mismanaging my life and put myself in that position. I know sometimes depression is chemical and can't be avoided. But, it's sometimes situational and it can be like my emotional exhaustion.

Some mental issues are avoidable (mine was), and can provide context and good information in some of the things the person needs to do differently in their life. It can never be an excuse to cheat.

For me, in terms of my marriage, I felt like the marriage was part of the burden and I didn't want to be married any more, to anyone, ever again. It was false thinking, it wasn't my marriage it was my own personal boundaries and expectations that was the burden all along. All pointing to the idea we are responsible for our own happiness. Managing our mental health is sometimes part of that.

I read somewhere that a midlife crisis for a man is lost dreams and misery at a job. The two of those can drive a man to do things he would never have thought of doing earlier. A good friend of ours says that’s exactly what happened to him. He blew his whole world up and he said before the stress of his job he would’ve never dreamed he would do this. He said he was so miserable and blue that the first thing that came along he grabbed hold of. She could have looked like a warthog and he would’ve hung up on. He regrets what he did but it ruined his marriage.

My husband’s cheating was out of town and easily done. No emotions involved. I suspected for a long time but did not confront and when I did he admitted it. We’ve moved on. He is the one that still suffers from depression from time to time. I can sympathize but I can’t empathize because I don’t suffer from it. In our case, one had nothing to do with the other. He was just a run-of-the-mill cheater. For those of you who are married to people who suffer from depression, or do so yourself, I feel so badly for you. It’s like slow poison.

On days when I am sad I know exactly why. My husband’s can come on over a couple of rainy days.

A psychiatrist gave a seminar about this. He said black and white thinking is how these people live. Everything is either wonderful or so horrible they are overwhelmed. They have difficulty living with the middle, which is where those of us with good mental health live. We have the same stressors but better ways of dealing with them.

I do think a subset of cheaters are just bad people who know how to manipulate us. It takes a lot of grit to figure it out and do something about it.

Mid-life Crisis sounds so convenient doesn't it? I had a few people try to minimize my affair by passing it off as such. And the - well you were depressed. And - your marriage was on the rocks. None of that lead me to my affair.

However, my depression played a part in me going down the affair rabbit hole. I went out looking for all the ego stroking, the rush of the illicit. I used my AP for my own ends.

And the drinking increased over the same time period. These things seem to go hand in hand.

What I should have been doing is getting real help.

I don't know, I think I also was having mid-life crisis, or an existential crisis of sorts. Typically those include depression too. I again don't think that's an excuse - I think it allows you to say - how did that come about? Not everyone has a big mid-life melt down, how was it that I did?

For me it was I was wrapped up in a specific role of wife and mother. When the kids left, I looked up and had no idea who I was, what I wanted, or what it was I was living for any more. I felt suddenly like I had nothing to look forward to.

Mid-life crisis is real. It doesn't give someone a license to cheat. Again, I think it points at the fact the person mismanaged something. Getting back in touch with who I was - it was a long and painful journey. I wouldn't discount midlife crisis, it just can't be an excuse. I think like the affair, it's a symptom of something bigger that needs to change.