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I know my WH used this line to convince his AP of the “justness” of having sex with him

We didn’t have a dead bedroom then.

Once the Hysterical Bonding wore off, it died out fast

I realized that I had been acquiescing in bed, due to his long standing Premature Ejaculation, then ED.

I used to think these things would improve over time

But they didn’t

WH was selfish in bed AND in life

How about your WHs?

We did have a dead bedroom, but it was 100% his doing. He also has ED issues and his extra curricular activities didn’t help matters. He never once tried to get help for it. I know now it’s because he likely knew what was causing it. For me it’s not exactly fun getting down when you can’t even get it up, but I still tried for a long time. He did nothing to even try and help me. At all. He was extremely selfish.

I always cringe when I see cheaters use the dead bedroom excuse because sometimes it is their own doing.

My STBXWH struggled with ED, but it was most likely porno-induced ED. He used that as an excuse to not have sex with me and continue his selfish use of porn...and neglect of our relationship.

He said he didn't think he'd get caught and the situation played into his incest porn fantasy.

If you look at the Reddit adultery community, they nearly all justify their choices with the DB excuse. It doesn’t wash. cheaters come up with all number of excuses for their low morals.

This thread is living proof that many BW’s put up with dead bedrooms but didn’t cheat. And the same can be said of many BH’s too (not in my own case but in many others).

[This message edited by Thumos at 11:00 PM, November 24th (Tuesday)]

Once the Hysterical Bonding wore off, it died out fast

I’m curious was this your doing or just the result of the A.

Things are starting to die out for us too but I feel like I can’t initiate due to the A. Even though I want to I find it difficult after all the rejection.

Our DB was entirely his own doing. He mutilated my underwear, stole my lotions and conditioners, even took some of my silk shirts at one point. Then gaslit me about it whenever I would find something, and acted aghast and offended when I didn't feel safe being intimate with him.

Even after the first few rounds of underwear mutilation, I bought really expensive runway collection lingerie and dressed up for him. Made a point to specify that yes, this was for us, but that I expected that he wouldn't touch it if I didn't bring it out. Not that I should have had to say that, but I did, to be safe. Then he proceeded to ruin it, and tried to hide it from me, like I wouldn't notice.

When we did have sex, his ED was so bad it could take hours (yes, hours, I'm not exaggerating) to get anything going. Sometimes I would be able to get his mind off of things enough that he could get back in the swing of it, but often it would only last for a few minutes and he wouldn't finish anyway. Which then led to blue balls, which then led to him complaining about the blue balls the entire next day. Which led to me being hesitant to initiate because if he got hard and then couldn't finish for any reason, it would be all I heard about, how much pain he was in.

I bought a special lubricant, very expensive and something I had to special order off of the internet, because whenever he bought something he would just get cheap crap from lord knows where and it would irritate me. So I did research to find something that would work for me, to make it easier so that we didn't have to spend as much time with foreplay for me because that's when he would lose his hard on. Even after I told him all of that, and again, specified that he not touch it, he used the entire bottle in one session with himself, then tried to play it off like the bottle just "went missing." I found it under his side of the sink.

I was also consistently woken up by him rubbing me all over with his hands, and on several occasions, him *graphic warning* putting his penis between my butt cheeks. *end graphic warning* No consideration for the fact that it was 3am and I had to be up at 6.

He also gaslit me about the amount of sex we were having. To the point where I started marking it in my calendar, because he kept claiming it was much more infrequent than it actually was, and I was tired of being made to feel crazy.

At one point, we were arguing about something completely different and he said "And we haven't had sex in a month!" We had just had sex 2 days prior, and I called him out on it. That's when I realized that he didn't "count" it unless he finished. Which with the ED induced partly by his raging porn addiction, partly by the meth use - was a rarity.

I wonder how that would work if women started using that logic. If no orgasm = didn't have sex, then a lot of us would have MUCH lower numbers than we do.

He was not selfish in the sense that he always tried to make sure I got off when we did have sex - I know my body pretty well and can generally get there if I give my partner the right direction. However, his inability to see past his own dick when it came to basic human decency was the biggest issue.

And yet, after all of that, I did not cheat. Fancy that.

I know for a fact that he used DB as an excuse for everything with the mistress. I didn't talk to him about it, but I didn't have to - I know him well enough to know what bullshit he fed her. I mean before the mistress, when it was "just" the porn/masturbation addiction, he used DB as an excuse for everything - why he was irrationally angry, why he couldn't keep his hands to himself, why he couldn't stop stealing my belongings. But this isn't a chicken or the egg situation, it's really obvious which came first here, and the so-called DB didn't come about until after all of this other behavior.

In the end it was a self fulfilling prophecy, because of course I wasn't going to be interested in sex with him when he acted like that. It's not my job to be a blow up doll for someone who thinks he can fuck away all of his self-loathing.

How many WS were entitled partners and gas lighters even before they cheated? Mine was, and it seems common. Cheating was just another in a long line of "It's always about me" in our R. And I allowed that crap. I'm still angry at what I accepted.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 4:40 AM, November 25th (Wednesday)]

For me it was a mixture of menopause (which had happened for 2 years before I went to the Dr to get tested. I’m only 42 so didn’t thought about being menopausal) and WH not helping out around the house and taking care of DS ever since he was born 6 yrs ago. I’m a SAHM and was struggling to take care of a child on top of the housework and cooking our meals. WH has never done a night feed during the first or even given our child a bath. Even now I’m the one who is always tending to the child while WH gets to relax during the weekends because he is tired from work and the commute. He was also lazy in bed, never made any plans for date night etc. yet puts in effort with the AP. I migrated and gave up a life to be with him and have no family or close friends here. And his family never offered any help of support.

I know my WH used this line to convince his AP of the “justness” of having sex with him

As did my W's AP and the vast majority of male AP's I know use this line. The truth of it, at least in my W's case, wasn't "dead bedroom" but "very sick bedroom". He and his wife had sex occasionally, but, if what he did with my W is his preferred frequency, well.. The bedroom might as well have been "dead", if you want to have sex a few times a day and you're getting it a few times a month, I think that would cause the same issues as an actual dead bedroom. Certainly did for me (with my W).

If you look at the Reddit adultery community, they nearly all justify their choices with the DB excuse. It doesn’t wash. cheaters come up with all number of excuses for their low morals.

As do nearly all the cheaters I know IRL (their "reason" for cheating is dead bedroom). Does it justify anything? Nope, not even a little bit. But it does make sense why they would look to an A to fix the problem they perceive in their relationship. As I'm fond of saying, robbing a bank to get money makes sense to me, and it makes less sense when you're Bill Gates than when your a guy scraping together coins to buy a meal. I do think that this is their "reason", and while I can, of course, not comment on "how dead the bedroom really is", I can't say what they're doing isn't logical, if, of course, you take morality/vows/etc out of it.

This thread is living proof that many BW’s put up with dead bedrooms but didn’t cheat. And the same can be said of many BH’s too (not in my own case but in many others).

You can add me to the BH group who had this issue and didn't cheat. Again, our bedroom wasn't "dead", it just sucked. I had sex, I had orgasms (as did she), but there was no "fun" in it. Everything was a "no" if it was the slightest bit out of the lines. It eventually got to the point where I stopped pursuing and started to investigate drugs to blunt/remove my sex drive so it wouldn't bother me as much. I learned to live with it, much like you learn to live without an arm or leg; not that you don't wish it was different every day, you just learn to work around it. Porn/mastrubation, reframing my thoughts, removing all expectations, refusing to pursue for fear of rejection. I got to place of "peace" with it, hated it EVERY minute of the day, but found a way to stop thinking/hurting about it.

But, let's be clear here, did I think about cheating to "deal with the issue"? Of course I did. You don't want to sleep with me, I enjoy sex a lot and it bothers me to not have it, so, why don't we just "outsource" this to someone else. Back then, before the A, I was still operating under the assumption that most women were having sex to have sex, not for kibbles, so I didn't see a lot of harm of talking a good game to get someone into bed. I'd be lying if I said the thought didn't pop to mind with some level of frequency; in fact, a few times, I honestly thought my W might suggest it, much like I'd suggest "why don't we go out to eat tonight" instead of cooking if you don't feel like it? It just made sense to me, it's one more "task" on the list that she didn't look forward to, why not take it off (which is basically what I did, just without cheating; I took it off the list through force of will and mastrubation).

How many WS were entitled partners and gas lighters even before they cheated?

Raises hand. At least on this particular issue, my WW certainly fits that description. I was so gas-lit on this issue, I honestly stopped understanding what direction was up. All the standard stuff that we often hear, but you add all that together; it was ugly to live though.

You can add me to the BH group who had this issue and didn't cheat. Again, our bedroom wasn't "dead", it just sucked. I had sex, I had orgasms (as did she), but there was no "fun" in it. Everything was a "no" if it was the slightest bit out of the lines. It eventually got to the point where I stopped pursuing and started to investigate drugs to blunt/remove my sex drive so it wouldn't bother me as much. I learned to live with it, much like you learn to live without an arm or leg; not that you don't wish it was different every day, you just learn to work around it. Porn/mastrubation, reframing my thoughts, removing all expectations, refusing to pursue for fear of rejection. I got to place of "peace" with it, hated it EVERY minute of the day, but found a way to stop thinking/hurting about it.

Very much relate. I didn't investigate drugs, but I decided that my expectations must be too high. That he was getting older and had less interest. That my sex drive was the problem so I needed to take care of myself. I stopped pursuing so much for fear of rejection too because that really does hurt after a while. I figured the problem was me, that I had been sexist thinking that he'd appreciate someone like me wanting sex daily because so many men complain about dead bedrooms. Our bedroom wasn't dead, it was just like I was another task sometimes and that takes all the fun out of it. Maybe he just wasn't all that adventurous so I was asking too much. He couldn't claim dead bedroom afterwards, but he did claim "grown apart". I don't know if he told that lie to others, but it would be amusing if he had, given the only thing dead about it was him.

Oh so this.

I stopped pursuing so much for fear of rejection too because that really does hurt after a while.

I thought it was me. During the aftermath of infidelity and subsequent work we each did individually and together we talked about this. Turns out that he didn't want the overhead of not performing perfectly in bed. But because we never talked about it on that level, I felt completely rejected and physically unattractive. To him it was a source of embarrassment rather than a source of bonding. He never understood the rejection I felt because he was so wrapped up in himself.

Performance in bed is at the core of how a man feels about himself which is a shame. If they could just concentrate on pleasing their partners then perhaps a lot of this infidelity stuff may not be so prominent. Of course I say this and know that women cheat too - and they do it for similar reasons such that they seek others to make them feel better which we all know is something we need to do for ourselves.

Performance in bed is at the core of how a man feels about himself which is a shame. If they could just concentrate on pleasing their partners then perhaps a lot of this infidelity stuff may not be so prominent. Of course I say this and know that women cheat too - and they do it for similar reasons such that they seek others to make them feel better which we all know is something we need to do for ourselves.

In his case, he was too busy chasing 20-year-olds. Sex with me was just part of the cover-up at that point. It was fun to work through the realization that I wasn't all that interesting compared to paying for new 20-year-olds.

I mean, now I see it as pathetic on his part, but it wasn't fun at the time.

[This message edited by DevastatedDee at 8:27 AM, November 25th (Wednesday)]

decided that my expectations must be too high

Same here Dee. In fact, I didn't "decide", I was told (by her) that my expectations were too high.

The real "funny" thing? What I told her I wanted (before the A) for sexual frequency (and was told is "unrealistic and too high") was a FRACTION of the sex that she had with the AP, every time they met up.

Let's just say, I adjusted my expectations WAY upward from what I'd initially requested. And that's what we do now, much more like her affair sexual frequency than what we had in the past. No way I was letting that craziness stand in my life after what she did.

We didn't when he cheated. He had a wife willing,and eager, to please him any way he wanted,as often as he wanted. I loved sex. I loved sex with him.

Then he cheated. He told her we didn't have sex often.

Its been 10 years. He has,in the last few years, become very unremorseful. If I trigger, I'm told its in the past, get the fuck over it. I'm not to talk about it,he's done.

So..shockingly..my feelings for him have started to change.

Also, I'm going through premenopause, and its killed my libido.

We now have it rarely. He likes to complain about it in his groups in Facebook. You can imagine how that makes me feel.

Poor poor man. He gets sympathy. Of course, they don't know my side.

I feel very alone in my marriage. He's controlling. Can be abusive. And when I try to talk about it,he shuts me down.

The bedroom is dead. He killed it.

But poor poor man. Right? Im quite sure some men here will feel sorry for him. Guess what guys? When a woman doesn't feel safe emotionally, it's hard to want sex. We are not porn stars.

Same here.

I was an enthusiastic partner until DDay

After HB, when he continued to be fucked up, I just kind of lost interest in trying

Back then, it was PR,

But a few years later, ED was added.

Him continuing to lie, beat off to porn (after agreeing not to), visiting strip clubs when I was hospitalized, the whole push to keep trying just fizzled out

[This message edited by 20yrsagoBS at 3:47 PM, November 25th (Wednesday)]

Ours had slowed down but it was becoming a real chore. During the last part of his A, we had no sex at all — his choice. Part was me — I had my own issues and felt unattractive. But I did the work and changed that, and still got rejected. Not only rejected, but he was so selfish in bed. If there was something I felt insecure about, he would only love that part. Areas I was confident in ? Yeah, no interest. And then add how nasty he became as his EA ramped into an PA. Who wants to have sex when you are treated like a second class citizen in your own home. And he’s 10 years older than me and started having issues— ended up being an enlarged prostate - but he was one of those “he’s going to finish come hell or high water” no matter how sore or painful for me. All about him.

After DDAY when I asked why he completely stopped having sex with me, he said he felt guilty have sex with me, like it was cheating on his AP. And that I didn’t tell him he was “so big” like she did. (And I stayed even after hearing that. What the serious F*ck. )

Infidelity is such a mindfuck.

Ugh

My ex was so fucked up. I would bring up crazy scenarios that I wanted to try, he would be lukewarm about it, then complain about our sex life being boring. Madonna-whore complex explained SO much. Now I realize I never was asking too much.

Fuck that guy.

This post brought to you by 5 glasses of wine. Cheers!

BR decidedly NOT dead when the EA turned PA.... but absolutely dead by dday.

So, during the course of his A, I went from ready, willing, able, and asking for more variation (which apparently hurt his ego) to "meh, not interested, what's on TV....."

Literally the week before dday I was watching him sleep and wondering to myself how we could rekindle our sex life.... little did I know that HB was on the horizon!

During the 1st 3-5 yrs of his PA, he had some health issues and the ED began (tho I still often wonder how much of that issue was psychological), then I was in menopause and my drive wasn't the same. In hindsight, I'd say that I was no longer connected to him in any meaningful way. We had a partnership more than a M. He was physically hurting my sensitive areas during sex, and I didn't learn until HB kicked in that he'd basically had no feeling in his hands for several years, but never bothered to let me know (it was carpal tunnel)... what kind of person keeps that kind of thing a secret from his wife, who was being scratched with his fingernails whenever he'd touch her?

Of course, WH likes to say that he had sex with her that last time only bc he "needed to feel like a man"...

Yes. Raises hand too. Dead bedroom at his instigation mind you. Bet he didn't tell that to his sluts.

Looking back on 3 marriages of 5, 11 and 23 years I would have to say that a dead bedroom is no excuse for cheating but it is a very good reason to end the relationship.

Sex is just a mirror and except in rare cases where there are health issues and the like if the sex is not working the relationship is not working either.

IMHO.