SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Especially interested in those of you who feel positive about the direction of R or your WS' work.

A little backstory for those of you who don't know me, my WH had an affair in 2017. I discovered and was told the physical extent was a kiss and the EA had been happening for a few months prior. We hysterically bonded mostly daily or multiple times daily for the next two years. It was the best sex either of us we'd had together. (And prior to his A, I was his only, he was NOT my only.) In 2019, he confessed to sex (occurred over a 4 day conference, a BJ on the way home from the airport and a quickie the following week in the parking garage at work).

Since his confession, we've had sex maybe a dozen times. Not a single time was it connective (TMI, but only twice did I face him.) I've cried every time. I also can only be physical if I have headphones in as a distraction. I can't take being silent with him (or hearing him talk to me bc then I wonder what he said to her).

I think I partially I cannot stand the idea that he still gets to have sex with me after the lies and gaslighting, partially that he (and I) feel tainted and disgusting (he gave me an STD that I will have forever bc he had unprotected sex), and partially I am just not okay being vulnerable in that way with him anymore - after two years of completely trusting, that was also destroyed with his lies.

My question ----- has anyone had these issues? I think relationship wise, we do well. Great communication, have fun together, spend a LOT of time together (thanks COVID!), etc. I do think he is honest and tries to be a better man every day (poly confirmed his timeline and since that 2nd DDay there has been no lies).

Is it possible to get that loving feeling back AGAIN? I have started IC up again, and a new BTrauma group, but I am kinda wondering if I need a sex therapist, drugs, or a lobotomy. (I've read a lot, and we've tried sensate touch stuff, which helps but maybe I'm just being impatient).

I always get the sense that while mind movies and triggers happen, many of you are still connecting physically, and I just feel grossed out by my own sexuality these days, much less my husband's.

Thanks in advance for any advice. Infidelity sucks.

No advice. I'm in the same boat.

DH and I are doing quite well save for the sex. We laugh, are partners with the running of the household, parenting. He's even stepped up as I'm going through health issues. He's had four years, now of being trustworthy, doing the work, all that stuff.

But, a second round of lies (for me, it was 7 years of lies following 3 years of trusting him) has fundamentally affected our marriage.

We're four years out from DDay2. We have sex once every 2-4 months. Most of the time we don't connect. Which is why we have sex a handful number of times a year.

I cry as well and feel used if I try to just go through the motions. Thankfully, DH would rather we don't have sex than try to have sex with me while I try to go through the motions/fake it until we make it. I cannot simply f*** my husband. I just can't. I also can't pretend he's someone else to try to get through. (I've never been wired to be able to fantasize/pretend I'm having sex with someone else while I'm with my husband.)

I don't need a lobotomy or drugs. I told him flat out. I could not get over another DDay. Well, it turns out, I do know myself well enough. And I warned my husband, and he chose not to listen.

So. Having less of a sex life isn't worth divorcing my husband. For others, I'm sure it's a divorce-able offense. For me, it's not. I'd rather have access to my kids full time then see them half time and try to find someone else to have sex with. Sex isn't so important to me that it's worth giving up 1/3+ of my net income, half of my retirement, etc. Sex is not worth moving from a four bedroom home to a 2-3 bedroom apartment with four kids half time. Plus, then I'd also being doing cancer treatment by myself.

I do love my husband. I love our partnership.

Sometimes actions have consequences that just can't be fixed.

(((TX))))

Can it ever come back? I don't know, in your situation, I don't know that could have tried. The STD thing just takes it a whole level deeper and harder I believe.

I struggled after the initial HB. What helped was making it 100% about me, and my pleasure, and this went on for a while. His actions at the time outside the bedroom were showing me he was doing the work to be a safe partner. I took the intimacy out of it it was all about me, and getting me to reach the promised land. If he did too, it was a good day, if he didn't well that was his issue to deal with, not mine. I was extremely selfish for a good while.

Eventually in healing myself, and fixing my broken heart, and learning to rid myself of my CoD behaviors, the intimacy came back, slowly and often it happened spontaneously, and then we both felt safer, and better about ourselves and our relationship, so it became more frequent. Is it always about connecting on some deep level now? Nope, but it never really was either. Sometimes its just to have sex. Sometimes it's more. I'm ok with that. I'm comfortable with that. I do know that no matter what happens, at the end of the day I can take care of myself, and will be happy and ok. I think that has the biggest thing to do with intimacy returning, confidence in myself.

Honor yourself!

Hopefully IC can help you process your emotions and then develop a framework wherein intimacy and/or sex is comfortable for you. It will probably take some time. Take your time.

I think it is great you are in IC. I am so sorry you are dealing with this. Do you think a poly would help? Maybe you are worrying something else will come out? I wouldn't blame you for feeling that way! Trickle truth is so cruel and harmful, it has been probably the hardest part for me.

Are you saying you've been in limbo for 2 years?

Is it the lying or the sex or both that is the problem for you?

The funny thing is, I think, that your H revealed the sex because he got comfortable and optimistic about R succeeding....

I believe the in-love thoughts and feelings will come back if you want them to. If you think you want them to come back and it hasn't happened, maybe a relatively unknown part of you is telling you something important ... or not.

I think a good IC and your intention to work this out will get you where you want to go.

Remember:

R is OK.

D is OK.

Taking time to figure out what you want is OK.

Your time line is up to you.

Stop listening to the voices in your head that attack you.

You are OK.

It was like this for me for a while. We had sex, but I didn't enjoy it and felt resentful and angry afterward. It changed, though, when he really changed. For the past 18 months my husband has been incredibly supportive, attentive, warm, and emotionally present. He has been there for me as I grappled with physical illness and surgery and as I grappled with resurfacing trauma from my past. I feel he is "with" me in a way he wasn't before, and our marriage and emotional bond feels at its strongest point. I have finally been able to forgive him, to understand (not excuse) why he did what he did. And the moment I was able to truly forgive, the sex became great again because it became about love again. (I also did a lot of work on my own sex issues stemming from childhood abuse--that's helped.)

So in my case, yes, that loving feeling did come back, and it's awesome. Even better than before, actually. But it took a long time. It took me really, truly forgiving, which wasn't something I thought I could do and isn't maybe possible or desirable for everyone. I'm only sharing my experience.

secondtime

I cry as well and feel used if I try to just go through the motions. Thankfully, DH would rather we don't have sex than try to have sex with me while I try to go through the motions/fake it until we make it. I cannot simply f*** my husband. I just can't. I also can't pretend he's someone else to try to get through. (I've never been wired to be able to fantasize/pretend I'm having sex with someone else while I'm with my husband.)

This is me to a T as well.

Sometimes actions have consequences that just can't be fixed

I wonder if this is just the truth. That it won't be fixed, and just IS. Like you, there are many trade-offs that make me want the marriage, but I am really am a romantic at heart and I HATE the idea that I may not feel that way again.

(Also, I'm glad he is a good partner to you. I hadn't realized you are going through treatment right now. I know it is so very hard and I'm glad you have the support. Sending strength.)

Tush

I don't know, in your situation, I don't know that could have tried. The STD thing just takes it a whole level deeper and harder I believe

Yep. I think this is a big part. And goes hand in hand with this...

I think that has the biggest thing to do with intimacy returning, confidence in myself.

The lies and gaslighting for those two years that I thought we were in R, just make me feel like the biggest flipping idiot. I kept looking at him when I'd ask if they'd had sex (almost daily) and thinking "He couldn't possibly lie when we are being THIS honest and vulnerable about everything else." And then come to find out, he lied every damn time for two years to protect himself. How can I be vulnerable with someone who betrayed me so willingly not once, but twice - and could have killed me with his carelessness and selfishness.

Hard Knocks

It will probably take some time. Take your time.

Thanks. This is where my hope lies. Time heals a lot and hopefully time with the IC will at least help me get SOMEWHERE with this.

Do you think a poly would help? Maybe you are worrying something else will come out?

I even had him read the basic rules of How to Help Your Spouse Heal OUT LOUD with me 6 months after DDay 1 and reiterated how lies will reset time. I mean, I could not have warned him more clearly that lying would be devastating. But he was too much of a coward them. We did do the poly graph. And more things outside of his original timeline (pre-marriage) came out during the formal disclosure. I do think I have the truth, but I think perhaps I could have some of that fear as well. Waiting for another shoe to drop. I don't really believe in anyone being completely honest anymore.

Sisoon

Are you saying you've been in limbo for 2 years?

Yes. I'm basically just hovering in life. I don't want a divorce, but I'm still not sure I can accept this is my life. So I shut off my feelings about being married in a physical sense because those are the times when it's hardest to deny what has happened in our marriage. And I think you are spot on about why the confession happened. He thought he had built enough with me, that by confessing, he could be free of that guilt and live honestly, give me the "choice" that I deserved, but was pretty sure I'd stay. He wasn't wrong obviously.

I believe the in-love thoughts and feelings will come back if you want them to. If you think you want them to come back and it hasn't happened, maybe a relatively unknown part of you is telling you something important ... or not.

I do hope you are right. I don't *think* there's something unknown (the dreams and compulsions about checking on his past actions are gone). I do think that what he did really just goes against my core values and I'm a stubborn person who sees the world in black and white for myself (other people get all kinds of grace from me, but for myself it's not existent).

And thanks for the reminders. Got me choked up.

windytree

It changed, though, when he really changed.

First, let me say that I'm so glad that your H did the work and was able to be there for you as you processed. That really makes such a difference. Mine was doing the work and supporting me too. Which was why I fell in love with him all over again, in what I THOUGHT was a more meaningful way. After DDay 1. I thought I had the partner I had always wanted and realized how much we had been missing for the previous 20 years together. I guess after DDay 2 though, the lies killed all of that. He literally has not stopped the support to me. In fact, if anything he has upped his game and looks for new ways to connect with me and is on top of triggers before *I* even have them yet sometimes. I do wonder if we just cannot recreate that magic again. Or maybe I'm just not willing to try, lest I get fooled again. Fool me once and all that, you know?

Thanks y'all. It always helps to talk things out on SI. Making a list from processing this stuff today to dig into in IC. I need to remember that so much of what troubles me is all of the "shoulds". What I should do/have done, say, think, feel, etc. Letting go of those shoulds is so hard.

Our sex life has evolved quite a bit since d-day. At first the sex felt like an act of desperation to hold onto some form of intimacy between the two of us. We were constantly talking about the A, except when we were having sex, so it was the only time it felt like we were connecting. Then it became more about me feeling validated by him. I needed to know he was attracted to me and desired me. For me, that equated to him initiating sex. Only very recently have I allowed myself to actually enjoy having sex with HIM. That sounds weird, but I had mostly been turned on by him being turned on by me. It was all about my validation, as I previously stated. Now I can admire his physique, pay attention to what he is doing, and how he looks when he does it. Sex has gotten so much better since I put that guard down, and it was already pretty good.

I really had to face the facade of the AP that I had built up in my own mind. It took some time, but I was able to tear that baby down, and see her for what she really was. It’s not a nice word, so I won’t say it. 😂 Basically she has NOTHING on me in looks, brains, or personality. Once I was able to make her into the nothing that she was, I could do the same for the sex they had. Our lovely mindmovies make things steamier than they actually were. We imagine our husbands as the Casanova’s in the bedroom, and the APs as these sexual goddesses. Reality isn’t like that. It likely involved shame, insecurity, and lacked real emotion. “Excitement” doesn’t surpass those aspects in my personal opinion. My husband and I have been having sex for 15 years. We know what each other likes. We are comfortable with each other. We really do love each other. “Their sex” has NOTHING on “our sex.”

Facing the AP and the mindmovies was my only way to move forward in the bedroom. Sometimes I still have to stop my mind from making up some unlikely, out of a movie, scenario. I just have to remind myself of how tainted and dirty that shit actually was, and how real and intimate our sex is.

I had HB strong after each DDay. And enjoyed the hell out of it.

We still have regular sex. I still enjoy it. I make sure I enjoy it. However I can count on 1 hand and get change the amount of times I felt that we made sweet love.

I know it will never be the same. That doesn't mean it has to be bad. What scares me is that it may never be special again. And it was special to me. Because it was with him. And between he and I.

I'm haunted by the mind movies. But what haunts me more and hurts more on some level is the intimacy. To know they slept together [he's a cuddler in his sleep]. And spent entire weekends together. To know she had her head on his chest in the morning as they were slowly waking. To know that they touched all night - were in that constant contact. That a knife through my soul. I have silently cried myself to sleep over this over the years.

But what haunts me more and hurts more on some level is the intimacy. To know they slept together [he's a cuddler in his sleep]. And spent entire weekends together. To know she had her head on his chest in the morning as they were slowly waking. To know that they touched all night - were in that constant contact. That a knife through my soul. I have silently cried myself to sleep over this over the years.

That's one of the toughest things for me, Chaos. Occured only a few times, but even once was enough. One of those inescapable horrors of As. Brought it up quite a few times in MC. Sometimes I can process and release this alone, sometimes I need to take it to my IC and let her lead me through it. Usually end up weighing it against other things. But it absolutely sucks to live with the memory.

secondtime

wow, I couldn't have said it better myself.

I am in the same boat.

I found out about my wifes affair 20 years after the fact. I found out in July of 2017. At first we had some hysterical bonding for a few months but then I keep having mind movies of them having sex. Every ooh every ahh she says to me, she said to him. I quit. It was my job as the husband to give my wife sex, and she went somewhere else for it. I feel that it is no longer my duty. She can go someplace else and get it. We have too much going on with grandchildren, assets and such to leave. We have not had sex in two years now.

Underserving- thank you for sharing. I am almost 3 years post Dday and you literally verbalized how I've been feeling the past few months. I just wanted to say thanks

Not feeling especially fond of the version of "R" that has occurred but I'll offer my feedback as a point of reference.

Sex is an act that gives me a physical feeling. It does not equate to connection necessarily. But really, it didn't mean shit to her before her multiple acts of adultery so why would it now? I accept that maybe I am wrong about that but until it's proven otherwise I accept that it's just how it is. I get mine. She gets hers. Prior to the A's, that how it actually was it's just that I was ignorant and she wasn't through that. No tears here. I accept and move on.

There's no way for me to know if she's fantasizing of "him" or me during the act. I don't fantasize but I also find my personal joy from sex has greatly diminished due to not knowing if it's me or one of the "him's" that gets her off. But I wont cut my nose off to spite my face.

OP, if you can't disconnect as I have from the act I get it, there's no judgement. But if you can I'd offer this to you. Do so. Enjoy what physical release you can. Why not? No one wonders if their dildo or fleshlight is satisfied after a session...

I am just over two years past Dday, so we are definately still working towards R, and by no means are we past everything.

Sex wise, alot of promises were made by my WW during the last two years, where I have told her she needs to bring into our relationship the energy (aka sexual element..) she was so willing to put into the affair. It happened on a few very rare occasions and has since slipped back to not happening.

When we do have sex (which is not that often tbh and we NEVER had any form of HB) it is enjoyable but I do suffer with mind movies due to what I read she told him (he is bigger, lasts an awful lot longer, etc) which has put me off in the past. I am trying to get past these as she has made it clear an affair will never re-occur, and she has not even seen the AP in 18 months. But there are still occasions I wonder if she still secretly desires him, or just someone different to me, she has done it once, she could do it again, and I know that this has killed some of the implicit intimacy we once shared.

I know we both have to work at things to get our sex life back on track.. And I know that I personally feel more distant from her the less we do have sex, for me it IS a very important part of the relationship, especially after an affair when one person in effect sacks you in that role, or at the very least outsources you! I just find it hard to just tell her that the lack of sex is a real issue to me, when she will throw all sorts of excuses back at me, she is too tired, back hurts, headache, I'm not initiating it enough, etc.. Etc.. But during her affair I know she would never use an excuse to avoid sex, whether she was tired, etc..

This is my challenge, to have to push myself to get the sex life I want, by being the person who no longer shies away from the confrontation, which is what Idid until DDAY when the evidence stared me in the face.

I hope we can get to a satisfying sex life for both of us.. I just know that right now 2+yrs post DDAY, we are very very far away from that point.

undeserving

Your experience sounds a lot like my HBing pre DDay 2, especially from the progression of wanting to preserve connection to actually enjoying your WH.

Our lovely mindmovies make things steamier than they actually were.

I would agree, except I read her words (she is very verbose and told him how "passionate" their nights were) and he told ME that it was "passionate" (he is NOT verbose and I'm guessing he parroted to her and me those words she said to him). So even though I KNOW that the sex could not have been technically good (her no orgasms, him literally drenched in sweat and could not finish a second time - not for lack of trying each night and that quickie in the garage left her crying), the fact that either of them THOUGHT at the time that it was awesome, and have fond memories somewhere in side of them, makes me

Chaos

But what haunts me more and hurts more on some level is the intimacy.

So much this. Before her, I was his first and only everything. After DDay 1, I used to say (to him and myself) how grateful I was that he hadn't done something he could never take back, that he hadn't held her in bed, that she'd never smelled him, that he'd never seen someone else, smelled someone else or felt someone else. Now all that differentiates her from me is that I'm the dumbass who cleaned his shit out of the toilet, babysat his own children, and lovingly made a plate for him after he missed every dinner with his family because of work (or he wanted to run after work). He gave away what was mine without thinking twice about it. What I thought was special never really was, you know?

((Jimmy)) I totally understand how you feel. I'm sorry you are feeling stuck.

NotMyFirstRodeo

OP, if you can't disconnect as I have from the act I get it, there's no judgement. But if you can I'd offer this to you. Do so. Enjoy what physical release you can.

I think this makes perfect logical sense. And again, TMI, but my WH is happy to "release" me anytime I'd like, without getting his own. Sometimes, I take advantage. It's transactional then, I usually say thanks and disconnect entirely for the rest of the night. It's when I involve him, that I feel dirty afterwards. It's instantaneous. I finish, that dopamine rush hits and leaves, and then I realize who I'm with and what I've done, and I crash (and cry). I kinda think that's probably what happened with his A sex was too. Which then makes me feel even grosser.

CJ

This is my challenge, to have to push myself to get the sex life I want, by being the person who no longer shies away from the confrontation

I'm sorry you are on the strugglebus too. I think the above will help you so much. Post DDay 1, WH and I had a lot of honest conversations about sex and EVERYTHING and I think that was a huge factor in how much I enjoyed our sex life. The discussion and vulnerability led to sex, which led to wanting more sex. If your WW is willing, perhaps you guys could work through some books together? Read and discuss? Some on topic ones are Erotic Intelligence, Come As You Are and also find articles on Sensate Focus. Off topic, you could read ANYTHING together to spark discussion (Gottman has a free app that has conversation starter cards).

Thank you all again. As I read through your experiences and my reactions to them, I can see two factors that are really stopping me from moving out of this state.

One is my own shame. Shame in staying when I told him (and myself) that I would leave.

Two is that I'm still so angry and so easily triggered that my body will just not let me get close. He actually went on a run yesterday and was talking about sweat with me, and my mind immediately went to him sweating during sex with her. His body and sexuality as well as mine, are triggers for me. So I avoid them both. Especially during high stress times (we are just exiting the 2nd anniversary of discovery day #2 and the lead was HARD this year).

Guess I've found some things to focus on with my new IC!

[This message edited by TX1995 at 12:20 PM, June 15th (Tuesday)]

One is my own shame. Shame in staying when I told him (and myself) that I would leave.

Same here. Shame and humiliation. I believed that I would never tolerate such a thing and instead I begged for her to stay.

One of the pet names that my fWW happily adopted in her messages with her AP implied that she had great enthusiasm for performing oral sex.

This was like a knife in the stomach. Our sex life had always felt like it was mostly about me showing physical attention and affection for her. I love her body so I was always happy to oblige.

She would perform oral as part of foreplay but she never seemed to have a lot of enthusiasm for it as a way to show physical affection and attention for me. If I wanted extra attention in that way I had to strongly signal it.

I chalked that up to the fact that she identified as bisexual and always seemed to be more aroused by women's bodies more than men's.

So of course seeing her brand herself as someone with great enthusiasm for that activity created horrible mind movies and insecurities for me. She denied that there was any special physical attraction or difference in equipage that inspired her to earn that pet name. I can never know the truth of that.

Rationally I know that it might just have been the emotional thrill of the affair and playing the "bad girl."

Of course this created triggers in the bedroom. It's a no-win situation because if she was enthusiastic it felt like she was just doing it because she felt bad. If she wasn't enthusiastic it was confirmation of my inadequacy.

I cannot deny that I have sometimes had angry fantasies of leaning into that and making her the uncomfortable one.

Our Dday was a long time ago and it took a long time to get to where I can just enjoy that without triggering. Usually.

[This message edited by Seeking2Forgive at 2:04 AM, June 18th (Friday)]

My thought is that when he truly does the work to fix what was broken in him to cheat and then worse, lie, that you can finally feel he is no longer that person and instead someone who stands beside you in hating who he was and what he did.

Only then will you be able to base a new love and attraction for him on the pride you have in him and the work he did to get there.

Right now you don’t have that. He needs to do months and years of hard work to get there. If he’s able to do that, and it’s no small feat to make it happen, then I think the feelings you are searching for can come back and possibly be better than what you had before the A or during false R.

Think about it. And I recommend you openly discuss that w him. His reaction to it will tell you a lot about if he’s capable of making that happen.

Good luck.

TX-

This is such a tough and uniquely individual issue — in that while we all suffered the same trauma, our healing is at our own pace.

As such, I usually dodge giving any advice on this topic.

But it’s a big deal.

Connection at every level is critical, in my mind, for a relationship to be worthy of our time.

In my case, our HB went really well for 6-8 months, However, that’s when I realized we needed better connection on rebuilding some level of trust and communication.

That’s the point when I realized love and intimacy was not going to be enough to stay married. We needed to be hitting on all cylinders or move on.

It took another year for me to feel better about our odds as we worked toward me feeling…..safe enough….to let down my walls and let my wife back in.

Ultimately, we all tend to hit what we aim for. Sooner or later anyway.

It’s clearly a free will type of deal. You can’t force it, you can’t use Jedi mind tricks or fake it. But you do have to figure out what it is or why it is you may not feel safe enough to be vulnerable.

I hate transactional sex, I need that emotional bond that goes with it. It took almost two years for me to get back to a place where I believed my wife’s actions, and that’s where I started to let her back in and true intimacy returned.

[This message edited by Oldwounds at 1:23 PM, June 18th (Friday)]