SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

HikingOut

My guess is you will eventually come to believe every thought and feeling you had concerning your affair and your affair partner while you were in the affair was all lies including your assessment that the sex was good while you were in the affair.

Yeah HO...you never orgasmed once. You'll remember it correctly eventually.

Sisoon

I definitively do see a duality between the WS in and out of the A. Actually, I see the diving line between unremorseful wayward and remorseful wayward. An unremorseful wayward is by definition a selfish, self-centered, filthy, immoral liar willing to destroy their own spouse and the spouse of their affair partner and even take down the children with them if children are present in either family.

As soon as an unremorseful wayward becomes remorseful which in Christian language can be explained as contrition and repentance everything changes. Now they are no longer a sinner living in their sin unwilling to make amends for their sin. Now they are forgiven sinners willing to make amends for their sins.

The unremorseful wayward and remorseful wayward are two different people.

The transition from unremorseful wayward to remorseful wayward is a miracle or near miracle type experience.

It can still take a long time for the BS to trust that the WS is actually completely remorseful. It took me at leat three years and probably more time to really believe that she was remorseful.

*****************

I did not say reviling an AP in a requirement for remorse but I do think finding the AP repulsive is a requirement for remorse. As I said before both people in the affair are selfish, self-centered, filthy, immoral liars willing to destroy their own spouse and the spouse of their affair partner and even take down the children with them if children are present in either family. Anyone who is remorseful will find this type of person repulsive because they are repulsive.

[This message edited by CreateAccount197 at 5:04 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday)]

In part your strong actions created the remorse.

You sent a clear message in both words and actions that her affair was not acceptable and will not be tolerated. You showed your pain. You also showed you loved her and you would not sure her.

When a BH comes here and all they want to do is reconcile it is less likely to have a WW tat gets to true remorse.

You made your marriage important. Oh made yourself important. That helped make the sex important.

The most important thing is for the WW have empathy. Remorse is part of empathy. The second is the BH must heal. To heal you need to find acceptance. Acceptance is not saying the affair is ok.

Acceptance is knowing you will be OK with or without your wife and allowing yourself to love again.

How did the affair sex you or your partner had bleed into you sex life after the affair.

I have read where most either don’t want to know what their WS did with the AP, or didn’t want that repeated with them in the bedroom. Maybe (obviously) I’m twisted in this area, because not only do I want to know what she did with each man, I want to experience that with her, myself, at least one time, if she’s comfortable with that, which she has been.

I get a great thrill out of satisfying my wife in bed, and the more she enjoys it, the better I feel. I am thinking that if there was something those two did to/for each other that gave her pleasure, I want to give her that same pleasure, too. Now when we do that act together (even if I had done it not knowing she and AP did it), it is no longer a secret between the two lovers. I am now a part of that memory and act. If we both feel comfortable with it afterward, we add it to our routine and it eventually becomes more attributed to me than him.

It's not a competition unless you make it one.

I mentioned in another post my W shouldn’t HAVE anyone else to compare me to in bed, that she shouldn’t have had that experience with another man; yet, here we are. I realize that most A’s only last a few months or a few years. In my situation where my wife has been with or chasing the same guy for 29 years, a very different dynamic is at play. I feel my WW has emotionally attached herself to this guy, that he knows my secrets which she shared with him, knows what she likes in bed, etc. They, essentially, had a marriage together.

How can I NOT feel any competition with this guy? No, I’m not going to do the “pick me” dance, yet I feel he has just as much of her heart as I do. – Can somebody else please walk in these shoes for a while?!

My husband has sex with his AP in the car, in parking lots and empty softball fields out in West Texas.

My IC recommended we reclaim those areas by having sex there. I even cleared it with the local police.

WH didn’t have the balls to do it

I am saying that all affair sex is between two selfish, self-centered, filthy, disgusting, destructive liars with no integrity. Sex between two such people is gross and repulsive because both people are gross and repulsive during the affair. If you do not see sex with your AP in these terms then you do not understand remorse.

Milwaukee...

You have said this same thing over and over and over and over throughout this thread. But no matter how many times you say it, it can never change the fact that while in the affair, your wife enjoyed the sex immensely. No matter how many times you say it to yourself, you can't change the past.

And far as your attacks on Darkness, you can suck it. She's been here a long time and her advice to other waywards has been invaluable. You, on the other hand, have registered here (and reddit) umpteen times and gotten banned every time. Changing your narrative just a little bit doesn't change that.

Golden

I am not MilwaukeeMike and you are starting to get personal and make stuff up. I never said my wife enjoyed sex immensely. You just made that up. My wife was an alcoholic at rock bottom during her affair. She was so drunk during most of her encounters that she barely remembers them and in some cases blacked out completely. She is also fairly sure she never orgasmed during 30 encounters with her AP but she isn't sure because she doesnt remember. She just generally said the affair was exciting and thrilling at times. She also said the encounters provided some kind of release like a drug addict getting their fix.

[This message edited by CreateAccount197 at 11:25 PM, October 2nd (Wednesday)]

You don't want ppl getting personal with you, then don't do it to others.

CreateAccount, a question for you.

You say, "my wife was an alcoholic at rock bottom during her affair. She was so drunk during most of her encounters that she barely remembers them and in some cases blacked out completely. She is also fairly sure she never orgasmed during 30 encounters with her AP but she isn't sure because doesn't remember".

If she was so drunk (to the point of blacking out) how does she know if she didn't love the sex? She went back 30 times so she must have loved something about it.

Why even make any of these statements if she was so drunk and blacking out and can't remember? Oh but she's "fairly sure she never orgasmed"?

There was something more going on than just going back to the same party to feel "exciting" and "thrilling"? You say she claims "the encounters provided some kind of release like a drug addict getting their fix".

The reason she kept going back (in my opinion) is because (based upon what you stated) "she was so drunk during MOST of her encounters". So the times she could remember she loved it and that's why she kept going back. She would also know if she orgasmed during the times she wasn't "so drunk".

You said she was an alcoholic which would certainly explain not remembering a lot of the encounters and what happened. However (again) you also said "she was so drunk MOST of her encounters". So there were times she wasn't drunk so she could remember what happened and thus using the "I was so drunk" explanation wouldn't make sense in these specific cases.

My IC recommended we reclaim those areas by having sex there. I even cleared it with the local police.

WH didn’t have the balls to do it

ROFLMAO, that must have been a VERY interesting call to the police. :)

I did this, there was no way there was going to be any place in the world where the last person she was there with was the AP. Anywhere they had sex, we had sex. Including some places that were illegal/dangerous. I must say, the entire time before we did it, and the build up to it, I was feeling really "off" about it. But, once we got into it, I really enjoyed it and, now, those places hold no power over me. I remember them as places we had sex, not they had sex (for the most part, I'm still aware they had sex there, but the memory of us having sex there is more powerful).

And, to the other post I saw with the anal/swallowing/etc, that's just par for the course in an A. No, not every time, but plenty of them, including, at least some of the time (my personal case) when those things were "off limits" for the H. All I can say, an absolute prerequisite to R for me, we're gonna be doing a lot of that going forward. All those acts will become "our things" and, from there, we'll find new, more intimate and extreme things to do together. That was the only path forward for me, there just wasn't any other option. No way I was going to live, or could live, with the knowledge that the best way to come close to experiencing anal sex with my wife was to call up the OM and ask him, "Well, how was it". That thought was impossible to choke down, at least for me personally.

Anywhere they had sex, we had sex.

My IC recommended we reclaim those areas by having sex there. I even cleared it with the local police

I wonder if the local police or OBS will be okay with me forking my WW in the AP's garage? I suppose I'm ok with letting that one go.

Seriously this thread sucks. They did it, stuff, all of it. Waywards that that went back for more obviously liked it. Or at the very least, it wasn't bad enough to stay away. Unfortunately Betrayed Spouses just have to suck it up, and accept it happened and move on with R(at there own pace BTW). Or get busy divorcing and fork someone else.

I'm not telling anyone that's what they have to do. It just seems like the only options given the shit sandwich we've been dealt.

Whether a WS actually changes there viewpoint about the affair sex....I don't know. Honestly I don't care, because It doesn't change that it happened or that its my forking problem now.

[This message edited by Neanderthal at 9:07 AM, October 3rd (Thursday)]

I wonder if the local police or OBS will be okay with me forking my WW in the AP's garage? I suppose I'm ok with letting that one go.

You owe me a keyboard, this one doesn't work nearly as well after I spit my coffee into it after reading this.

Whether a WS actually changes there viewpoint about the affair sex....I don't know. Honestly I don't care, because It doesn't change that it happened or that its my forking problem now.

I feel much the same way. Feelings aren't facts. I can't change them, I can't tell if they are real or not, and I can't read minds. All I can do is, in as many ways as possible, make sure that I've "factually" done what I can. And, for me, that means "outdoing" the AP. More sex, more extreme sex, redoing all the acts they did (better). Pushing into areas they didn't explore. Those are facts, you did this with him once, now you did it with me 20X. You did this with him, now you did it with me while this other thing was also going on.. That's my way of both helping me deal with the past and write a new history together that's ours, not theirs.

That's why when I see threads about "forbidden" acts that remain forbidden for the BS after d-day, I get all crazy inside. Because that would make me crazy, it's just unacceptable to me (outside of rape by the AP of course). But there are threads out there where the WW gave the AP anal and wouldn't do that with the BH. No f**king way. Sorry, that just would not fly. Or threads (although I've never seen one, lets just say they exist) where the WH goes down on the AP and makes her orgasm, but won't do that with the W. No.. F**king.. Way... Not for me, and honestly, I have no idea how someone accepts that. The BS gets "better than" the AP got should be a foregone conclusion. If the AP got a dozen roses on Friday, the wife gets 2 dozen on Monday and Thursday. No, maybe not forever, but for a long, long time, until roses start to mean "It must be Thursday" and not "That b(tch wh(re got them too".

Did the WH in this case "want to" send roses to the AP more than the BS? IDK. None of us will ever know. What we can know, the wife has a pile of dead roses that's a mile high and the AP got 1, once, because it was on sale while he was buying condoms. Dealing in internal motivations is very, very hard after an A. Yes, it's the fundamental question that all of us (BS's) want to answer. Do you really love me? Do you really enjoy sex with me? Do the things I do matter to you? No idea. All you can do is look at the actions that help fill in the story there because, much like the other topic we're discussing here (was the A sex great or not) the motivation to lie is just too high. Actions tell the story.

Dealing in internal motivations is very, very hard after an A. Yes, it's the fundamental question that all of us (BS's) want to answer. Do you really love me? Do you really enjoy sex with me? Do the things I do matter to you? No idea. All you can do is look at the actions that help fill in the story there because, much like the other topic we're discussing here (was the A sex great or not) the motivation to lie is just too high. Actions tell the story.

I think this is key for all WS to read. It was very hard for me to understand he didn't know whether I loved him, he didn't know any of the things you are saying here. That's why consistency is so important. That's why anything they are asking it's important to recognize where that is coming from and that we are the ones who caused it to be there. I think it always comes out whether the WS is capable of loving their BS because without understanding what love is and being intentional about it, I think that all falls to the wayside and the WS goes back to living in their own little world again.

You’ll love this:

WH told me his AP gave terrible blow jobs, but he couldn’t tell her

Why?

Because then she’d stop

Hahaha!

Anyone who is remorseful will find this type of person repulsive because they are repulsive.

I'm sorry ... I think you're doing yourself a disservice to yourself and to others by pushing that belief.

I wouldn't stay married to an unremorseful WS.

But I bet you know WSes IRL whom you like and respect, because you don't know they're WSes....

GoldenR

Not sure why but I have Milwaukee on my Mike....uhmm, I mean "mind"

LOL LOL LOL LOL

[This message edited by Mene at 9:16 PM, October 3rd (Thursday)]

But no matter how many times you say it, it can never change the fact that while in the affair, your wife enjoyed the sex immensely.

GoldenR, when you make statements as if you know things you cannot possibly know, it speaks to your insecurities and demons, thus the projection. Your knowing things that you cannot actually know has everything to do with low self-esteem (at this point) and insecurity, not truth. This is not a truth that you can ever know. It's simply not. You are imposing this truth onto yourself and others. Out of fear and hurt? Probably.

I just rolled my eyes so hard that they made a clicking sound.

I’m 2 yrs post Dday #1 and this still haunts me. Like CA197 I have said all along I cannot stay married to WH if his AP was better than me. At least that’s what I thought. I asked two questions that I really wish WH would’ve answered differently. I asked “was she tighter than me?” to which he replied, I’m not going to answer that.” And “Did she taste better than me?” and he replied, “It’s not about the taste.” Of course, he told me sex with me was better but his answers to those 2 questions tell me differently. I just can’t stand the thought that she was better than me.

I asked “was she tighter than me?” to which he replied, I’m not going to answer that.” And “Did she taste better than me?” and he replied, “It’s not about the taste.” Of course, he told me sex with me was better but his answers to those 2 questions tell me differently. I just can’t stand the thought that she was better than me.

I'm so sorry. This is the female version of exactly the fear that I (and many other BH's) have. I know it doesn't mean much, and you should never be in this situation to begin with, but, the fact that your H "kind of" answered these questions truthfully, well, it's a little bit encouraging.

I will say, and perhaps this will help a bit, although, if it's anything like the "penis size" discussion, it won't mean as much to you as it should.. Tighter isn't always better. Yes, it does feel good, but, I'm going to answer this as truthfully as I can, one of the best sex experiences I ever had was with a woman who wasn't at all tight, in fact, she might have been the least tight women I'd ever been with. Attitude has a lot to do with it, but, in this particular case, the sex was fantastic because she was so "into it" and there wasn't a kink I can think of that she wasn't up for, if nothing else, trying. The sexual freedom and confidence that she had was just intoxicating, and, frankly, pretty quickly, I learned to appreciate the "soft touch" of her vs the Vulcan death grip of other people. I know, I know, that sounds exactly like what a woman would say to guys worried about penis size, and, I always have a very difficult time believing it when the shoe is on the other foot. But I have no reason to lie to you, and, if you know me at all, you know that I'm always one, if nothing else, to tell it straight. Yes, tighter will generally get me to orgasm faster. But, less stimulation will often/usually get me to orgasm slower, but much, much more powerfully. Going into way TMI, when I mastrubate, it's "death grip" if I want to just bang it out, and it's "as soft as I can stand it" if I want to go for the orgasm that makes me see stars. Not sure if it's the same for women (I suspect it is, which is why you often see women who will say "My vibrator makes me orgasm in 60 seconds flat, but I still prefer orgasms with my H that take 20 minutes to get to"), but figured I'd offer what, hopefully, is a helpful perspective here.

Finally, while orgasms from "straight sex" are awesome, by far the best orgasms of my life have always come from something else. Almost always oral sex (to the point above, "tight" and "oral sex" are about polar opposites) and occasionally anal sex, which, yes, is quite a bit "tighter", but, that's not what makes those orgasms spectacular, it's 99% mental, 1% "wow, that's tight".

Sorry, probably far TMI, but, hopefully some of it helped.