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I can only answer in my own experience. My soon to be ex WS was sorry that he got caught and he would still be at it if I allowed it.

I think each experience is different. Some are truly sorry. There are many that get out and brag about having an affair(s).

Debra

I would be lying if I said that the possibility of a dday isnt always in the back of my mind but that’s not the main cause of my angst.

It’s the internal conflict that continues which is the cause of all my pain. I betrayed my wife and child, myself and everything I thought was important. I so carelessly pissed on it all for a lie/an illusion. That I was able to so convincingly lie to myself about my marriage and my wife. I cannot come to terms with the person I was to who I am now. I now see how abhorrent my actions were. The idea of cheating makes me physically ill yet I know I did it. I did it willingly. I didn’t give any of the potential fallout more than a cursory thought.

I did all of this to the one person who has stood by me through everything. Through mental illness, financial hardships, drug additicion and the list goes on. And how did I choose to repay this kindness? By cheating on my wife. That is the crux of my regret and remorse.

Many regret the consequences.

Some reach remorse.

Some have reached something I can't define, like my WS. He stopped cheating long, long before dday. Why? He says he didn't like who he had become. He became a better husband, and I had no idea why. It has caused hell on our little planet because dday, and the resulting consequences, were so long removed from the actions. It has caused a serious rift in the fabric of our time cloth.

I can't seem to incorporate this new reality into a cohesive story.

T/j

Ff4152, be warned. Being betrayed is bad. Finding out your whole marriage was a lie is like being transported to another planet and never being able to get home. You are doing much more damage than you can imagine. For me, yes, the sex is bad. Finding out my life was a carefully orchestrated illusion and that I was deprived of making informed choices about my sexual health, about who I married, who fathered my children, and on and on and on, has been life shattering. Psychologically, depriving someone of their own memories is torment. Please read the article in New York Times on this. It creates a fragmented reality, which can never be integrated. My IC has even suggested DID-like shattering as a result. Please give your wife her choices back. Please. Please don't shatter her any more than has already been done.

What I don't get is how they just drop the AP and want to work on the horrible marriage at that point. Suddenly they want to stay with the person they couldn't stand before and talked ugly about to the AP. Suddenly they love the BS and can't stand the AP even though the BS finds the texts and emails of the love declarations. They say they didn't really love them they just said stuff to keep it going. Hmmmm. So if they do that to the AP then why would the BS believe it was genuine to them?

She was the most beautiful woman in the world to him- his dream girl. All right. Go be with her. Oh, no. I was never gonna leave. I don't want her. You don't want your dream girl? You don't want to be with the most beautiful woman in the world? You risked everything to be with her. So, why not be with her?

I don't get it. How can they really regret what they risked everything for? And kept risking everything for....

My WH said, "I didn't think you loved me anymore." But when I was the one who suggested that we work on things (had no idea he was in the middle of an affair), he had to know I cared but he didn't stop the affair. He just accepted sex from me as well. He didn't tell her that he was taking me on date nights. He didn't tell her that I had told him if he didn't try that I was going to leave him and he had begged me to stay. Why beg me to stay when you have found your dream girl? And why take her on a trip if it was only me you wanted? Such BS! Why did he want to go have sex with her when he could have it at home and the sex with her was just plain ole sex? Why risk it? Why after I find out about the affair did he suddenly think I was the most beautiful woman in the world and want me? It makes no sense. His thinking makes no sense and that makes me realize that I was never special to him. We never had anything special. I don't believe they truly regret it. They had their fun that they knew would hurt us or they wouldn't have gone to such lengths to hide it. They got caught with their hand in the cookie jar but they had plenty of cookies beforehand. They do it until they get caught and then suddenly we are the most important thing in the world to them. Sorry, I don't buy it at all.

Yes! All this yes!!! Can someone explain this? I seriously don't even get it. How can you just flip that switch? How can you go from being sooooooo in love with AP, to being soooooooo in love with your BS? Makes me sick! Which is why I'm finding my WH's actions completely false and don't trust him as far as I can throw him.

Do they really suffer? Lose things? Feel consequences? Yes.

Do they get hb, the pick me dance, vow renewal, and 15 different chances? Uh, no.

We don't regret what never hurts us. And your sadness is not our sadness, which is why we sleep like babies.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 8:03 PM, September 4th (Tuesday)]

100% my WH regrets his A. I have no doubt.

But his regret, his commitment to R, his actions, they really don't make the triggers stop. I wish I could say that there is a magic way to heal triggers. So far, I haven't found one.

Here's what I have learned at 17 months out...

1. Unrelated to triggers, but apparently, it becomes less of a "month-by-month" thing, as I just had to count out months since DDay on my hand.

2. Some triggers lessen over time. IME, the triggers that are "general" to affairs, lying, are easier for me to feel and keep going through. The ones that trigger specific memories of the actual affair, or how I felt when I found out, are harder. Sometimes they take me down, sometimes I can keep going. I will say that the times that I go down, I am down for much less time than I was even 6 months ago.

3. The way my WH has supported me has *helped*. We've recently learned that when I trigger, it is much more helpful that he acknowledges it, apologizes for his part in giving me these triggers, and asks me if there's anything he can do to help me through. Mostly by the time he is done loving on me, I am doing better.

Time is the shitty answer, but it's true. So far, I'm not "over" the idea of my WH's affair, but I am working to walk by it instead of carrying it around with me all of the time.

I'm sorry you are dealing with this and hope you learn how to manage the triggers in a way that is less painful.

I don’t think there is a one-size fits all answer to this.

I think there are some WS that are remorseful and deeply regret their actions. I think they wish they could go back in time and not do it. I think they see the damage they have caused their spouse and feel badly about it.

I am sure there are some WS that simply regret the consequences and little else. If that wasn’t the case, then why would so many BS’s have additional D-Days and find out that they are right back at it again.

I know several people personally, including my ex-SIL that left their spouse for their AP, never apologized or even looked back. That doesn’t seem like regret to me.

My WH does not regret his A nor has he shown any remorse. I think he feels a little guilty about the kids, but it never lasts for very long.

[This message edited by Zamboni at 8:31 PM, September 4th (Tuesday)]

Mine is only sorry he got caught. There is no doubt that if he hadn't been, he would still be running around having his fun. It's been a little over two years for me and I am still broken. I know he never told me the whole truth and he never will so I just stopped asking a long time ago. We've been married 41 years and I feel like I don't even know him. My best friend died from cancer last September and while she was sick I prayed and prayed for me to die instead of her. She had so much to live for and loved life so much while I am just so ready to get off this ride. But since nothing in my life is fair, she is now gone and I'm still here. Sorry for the pity party but your post really struck home with me.

Honestly I think it is rare to find a WS that is capable of true empathy. If they were, they just wouldn't do it. I think a lot of them think they know how it feels but don't actually get the concept. It's more sympathy which is an entirely different thing.

The irony is that many WS will accuse their BS of not having any empathy after Dday.

I think my WW probably does regret her A. If it's what she says it was (which I doubt) then it all seems a bit of a pointless way to betray a man who would love you until your dying day.

She should have gone the whole hog and enjoyed herself. Probably did. I don't care any more.

The question needs a more structure.

Do they regret fulfilling their selfish needs with an A - no

Do they regret destroying the ones they love because they had an A - if they get caught and it wasn't an exit affair - perhaps.

Do they regret getting caught in the A - absofreakingloutley

Do they regret their fun and excitement are over now that the A is discovered - yes - some of them actually come to admit it

Do they regret the intrusion of discovery of the A - hecktotheyes

Are they remorseful about having the A to begin with - perhaps but many not until it is too late

Finding out your whole marriage was a lie is like being transported to another planet and never being able to get home. You are doing much more damage than you can imagine. For me, yes, the sex is bad. Finding out my life was a carefully orchestrated illusion and that I was deprived of making informed choices about my sexual health, about who I married, who fathered my children, and on and on and on, has been life shattering. Psychologically, depriving someone of their own memories is torment. Please read the article in New York Times on this. It creates a fragmented reality, which can never be integrated.

I have never read anything so succinct. This perfectly describes my reality now. The ultimate mindfuck. I keep reading it over and over again. You have put my experience into words.

That’s my fear-that he regrets the consequences it brought to his life. Maybe even the pain it has caused me and certainly the tarnished image our sin now has if him. But, does he really regret it?

Good question. I have wondered the same.

He says he wishes he never met her. He says he never thinks of her. I often wonder during sex if it’s me he is thinking about.

How do we know? It takes trust and I don’t have any of that still.

I believe they regret the consequences, the losses, the respect of the family and children if they were informed, the not able to look themselves in the mirror without seeing an unfaithful person when they hated those before, the pain they have caused the people they loved the most but the actual affair and all the joys that brought to their lives at that moment, I don't think there are a vast majority regretting that.

I don't see true regret as segmented. I do not understand how you can regret how badly you hurt your spouse but not regret and have shame for every moment you spent with AP.

I get there are some who do not regret, but I do think there are a number of WS's here who do, and a number of BS's say they believe their spouse is so we do exist.

I regret everything. I regret that my H has had to struggle this past year because of my own selfish actions. That he doesn't know if I ever really loved him, if he can ever trust me again, if we will ever get passed any of this. Sitting and witnessing his pain and knowing I am the cause has been the most terrible experience of my life. He would have never done this to me, and still wouldn't.

I regret that I put someone who was using me (or anyone really for that matter) above him or our kids or our life together. If you think for one moment that I can look back on the A and see anything but myself being a filthy disgusting pig, that's a skewed viewpoint. I just don't think that a WS who does regret/feel remorseful could ever look back at anything during that time with fond feelings about it.

And, to be clear, I answered this really not in defense of myself, but because sometimes I wonder how healthy these kinds of thoughts are for BS's. Especially new ones? I get that we have vent threads and all of that, but these generalizations are likely hardest on the new(er)BS camp. So, just know if you truly have a remorseful spouse, they aren't able to look back on the A with anything other than disgust over their actions. Anything else is pretending.

Yes we think of the consequences and we calculate just how much we are willing to risk and hurt our BS. Anyone that tells you differently is choosing not to be honest, vulnerable, and it is BS. They are still worried about their self image. Yes, we do become remorseful but it takes some time to stop being selfish and regretful. If he is honest he will admit he thought about the consequences and didn't care. Even if you compartmentalize which is a way to deal with it, you still thought about it before you packed it away into a box.

What I don't get is how they just drop the AP and want to work on the horrible marriage at that point. Suddenly they want to stay with the person they couldn't stand before and talked ugly about to the AP. Suddenly they love the BS and can't stand the AP even though the BS finds the texts and emails of the love declarations. They say they didn't really love them they just said stuff to keep it going. Hmmmm. So if they do that to the AP then why would the BS believe it was genuine to them?

The only thing I can say as far as my POV is because we married you. At the time I valued my wife above all others. Risked as much as I was willing to risk based on her unconditional love. I at some point after our second child was born began to take her for granted then to take advantage of her. I loved her as an object. What she could do for me. As far as the AP goes. Ends to a means and easy to replace. Loved the undivided attention, but didn't love her or know shit about her. I was selfish man. If I wanted the AP, I would have stayed with her and left my wife. The AP was an object worth way less than my wife.

Do WS really truly regret the A?

Per my exWW and from some in-depth conversations with other betrayers, I would say the answer is 'yes' and 'no'.

In a general sense there usually is regret. Some more than others. That said, there is no denying that the betrayal was almost always unbelievably stimulating, risqué, sexy... that it created feelings and memories that the betrayer has experienced and will never know again. Those are not forgotten. Betrayers tend to suppress those feelings, but they were very real and therefore still exist- regardless of how far down they place them (if at all).

My exWW and I had a long and shockingly frank talk about 3 years ago when she offered up a heartfelt apology. She didn't like her new marriage (not to one of her betrayal partners) and missed ours. Hell, she should, I worshiped her. Since years had passed I asked her about regret, remorse... She had no regrets for the betrayals for how they made her feel so alive, sinful, desired and it allowed her to escape the day to day routine... but she had deep regrets for the damage it did with her relationship with her daughter and seeing how her unfaithfulness had such a terrible effect on me as it was never her intent to do so. And this is part & parcel of what I get from other betrayers.

So I asked her how much she thinks about her cheating sex partners and she said not a whole lot. This was odd to me, but she tells me she really doesn't think of them as in thinking of them as men or people (or really even sees their faces), but just for what they did for her and made her feel. Those feelings she thinks about. They are a part of her now and she doesn't deny them.

Anyway, that's what I have learned.

[This message edited by thatbpguy at 8:41 AM, September 5th (Wednesday)]

What I don't get is how they just drop the AP and want to work on the horrible marriage at that point. Suddenly they want to stay with the person they couldn't stand before and talked ugly about to the AP. Suddenly they love the BS and can't stand the AP even though the BS finds the texts and emails of the love declarations. They say they didn't really love them they just said stuff to keep it going. Hmmmm. So if they do that to the AP then why would the BS believe it was genuine to them?

She was the most beautiful woman in the world to him- his dream girl. All right. Go be with her. Oh, no. I was never gonna leave. I don't want her. You don't want your dream girl? You don't want to be with the most beautiful woman in the world? You risked everything to be with her. So, why not be with her?

I don't get it. How can they really regret what they risked everything for?

IMHO, for the most part is that betrayers are cowards at their core. Cowards lacking any shred of genuine integrity. When they leave a marriage, it has to be on their terms and no one else's so they aren't the villain. To be caught betraying and divorced simply exposes them too much for what and who they are. Hence, all of a sudden, they love their BS blah blah blah. If they stay and then the marriage fails, they can say "Hey, I did all the right things to R and my spouse refused to do their part...". It's basically a continuance of their form of integrity (or lack therof).

To be sure, I suppose maybe 5% are very genuine in wanting to rebuild and change, but I think that is far more the exception than we ever realize.

[This message edited by thatbpguy at 8:45 AM, September 5th (Wednesday)]

I did all of this to the one person who has stood by me through everything. Through mental illness, financial hardships, drug additicion and the list goes on. And how did I choose to repay this kindness? By cheating on my wife. That is the crux of my regret and remorse.

*I decided the response was too harsh to post*

[This message edited by thatbpguy at 8:43 AM, September 5th (Wednesday)]

he had no regrets for the betrayals for how they made her feel so alive, sinful, desired and it allowed her to escape the day to day routine... but she had deep regrets for the damage it did with her relationship with her daughter and seeing how her unfaithfulness had such a terrible effect on me as it was never her intent to do so.

That is weird to me. How do the memories of the betrayals not get colored by all that came after that? This is not how I view it at all. There was nothing good about who I was at the time I had the A. There was nothing good happening either, it was all destruction. I know and understand that at the time I was feeling those things that you describe, but 14 months later when I look back on it it's truly disgusting to me. There is not one once of enjoyment in remembering any of it. There wasn't anything worth what I did to my husband. I just don't identify with this statement at all.

So I asked her how much she thinks about her cheating sex partners and she said not a whole lot. This was odd to me, but she tells me she really doesn't think of them as in thinking of them as men or people (or really even sees their faces), but just for what they did for her and made her feel. Those feelings she thinks about. They are a part of her now and she doesn't deny them.

This I understand better. When I talk about AP, I don't picture him. He is a non-person to me. And, it's because in reality during the A, they are not really people to us then either. They are whatever we are projecting upon them and how they are making us feel about ourselves.

The only thing I can say as far as my POV is because we married you. At the time I valued my wife above all others. Risked as much as I was willing to risk based on her unconditional love. I at some point after our second child was born began to take her for granted then to take advantage of her. I loved her as an object. What she could do for me. As far as the AP goes. Ends to a means and easy to replace. Loved the undivided attention, but didn't love her or know shit about her. I was selfish man. If I wanted the AP, I would have stayed with her and left my wife. The AP was an object worth way less than my wife.

"If I wanted the AP, I would have stayed with her and left my wife."

I got this bullsh** line from wife, maybe in a slightly different form: "I'm here with you aren't I?" Sometimes I think justice would be that a WS is stuck with the AP they chose to cheat on their beloved, cherished spouse with. Truly loving your spouse means protecting them from the very kind of pain that selfishness like an affair is guaranteed to inflict. My wife says she still loved me while choosing to create opportunities to spend with her ex-gf, knowing that I would be devastated if I ever learned she was seeing that woman again -- but I call bullsh**! She can tell me till the cows come home that her being here is because she loved me, but my heart will never be comforted by that, not after knowing the hundreds of little decisions she made during the course of her affair to keep it hidden so it could continue.

Does my wife regret her A? Of course she does. She has to face the fact that when I am broken and sobbing it is because of her. She has to face the fact that she stole my peace. She has to face that my health is weaker and my spirit is broken and my days are much more of a struggle because of her affair. She also has to face that there are things required of her now that she is not hardwired to do, and she is struggling to have the will to to meet those needs: in particular she is faced with my wanting her to begin addressing questions without having to continue to repeat them after nearly three years of begging for voluntary response. And of course she does and will continue to regret that she has disappointed me, and will continue to disappointment me, because fulfilling my need for her to address her A and to continue to dig deep and endure the pain of the hard work of reconciliation is contrary to her undisciplined nature.

It wouldn't have to be this way if she had just taken a moment to reconsider her choice before she took that giant leap of unfounded and selfish "faith" that I would never find out she was stepping outside of her vows, and instead of dialing that phone number, folded her phone and put it back into her pocket, got on her brand new mountain bike we bought so she could get out for some solitude and exercise, and come home. The fact that she is here now will NEVER erase the fact that she chose not to be at that critical moment. Ever.

In a sick and wickedly just world, she would be stuck with her AP/ex, enjoying all the drama, all the ugliness, all the game-playing, all the negative and costly irresponsibilty, and remembering every day why she was glad to have met me after closing that chapter in her life.

Or at least she could be telling me much more frequently, without being prompted, how very glad she is that she even has a me to come home to every day, and how very foolish and awful it was of her to ever have taken that for granted.

[This message edited by OneInTheSame at 9:25 AM, September 5th (Wednesday)]