SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I haven't read all the responses, but....

For those further along in their reconciliation, how were you able to cope with this aspect? How were you able to move past it?

I gave an enormous gift to my spouse in allowing him to try to work through his shit and rebuild our M. I was gracious. I was kind. A major influencer in giving this gift was what was in the best interest of my children. How can there ever be shame in doing what is right and good for my kids.

Second - How can I feel shame for staying when my H did what he needed to, and did a lot of really hard work on himself to fix his brokenness, and heal himself, and also healed our M. There is no shame in becoming a better person, a person who is totally honest, and completely accountable.

Third - My own personal shame? I became a better person who was no longer painfully Codpendent. My H helped to hold me accountable to work through my issues too, as I healed.

Lastly - Perspective. The perspective of change that occured after time is what really allowed me to understand that I made good choices, and we rebuilt, and healed. There was no more disrespect, dishonesty, there was kindness, love, respect, honesty, strength, and happiness at the end of that road. There is no room for shame there, it doesn't belong.

Everything SaddestDad said.

I feel shame for staying. Cheating was an absolute deal-breaker for me prior to DDay 1, then again before each DDay 2-5.

I deserve better than him. He could have been the most remorseful WS ever (he wasn't) he could have been the best partner and father ever (he wasn't and isn't) and I would maybe feel slightly better about staying, but I doubt it.

So I enjoy what little he provides, and I am fulfilled by the fact that I have great friends, wonderful kids, a great career, and am not a self-absorbed, entitled, pathetic, needy, empty shell of a human being. I basically consider him a FWB at this point.

I totally relate to this.

As someone else said, I think the first source of shame is really that you've been cheated on. It's humiliating.

And while I would not every judge anyone else like this. To me, it feels like staying shows that I'm weak and I'm accepting that I deserve to be treated on this way.

The tough part about dealing with infidelity is that there is absolutely no way for me to get through it and be 100% true to my values. I'd like to think I'm a strong woman who wouldn't let her husband treat her like crap. And yet I stayed after the infidelity.

I also like to think that I'm a forgiving person who believes in second chances. If I were to leave WH I think I'd feel like I was betraying that value.

There's just no way to win.

I don't know that I have any great advice here except to say that as I've been healing it has gotten easier to deal with these emotions.

I can't say I've never felt any shame. I've noticed it more strongly when I'm talking to someone who knows what happened and my WH's name comes up in conversation.

What has help me is a combination of things. First, I came out strong on DDay and I've had my way in R. We didn't reconcile on his terms; we've reconciled on mine.

Second, it has taken some time, but I have truly accepted that my WH's cheating is about HIM, not about me. I had nothing to do with it. I couldn't have. I'm not capable of MAKING someone turn their back on their own core values. Nothing I can possibly do would accomplish that.

And third, I recognized that I did have an "ego problem". I took a sort of Buddhist approach to it and began to understand that my suffering has been largely connected to my ego. ie. "How could this happen to ME?", like my "ME" was so big and important that this should have been impossible. The truth though is that I don't have any special exemptions which would make betrayal an impossibility. I'm not more special than anyone else, not those who have been likewise betrayed or those who haven't. My WH would have cheated at that point in his life on whoever he was with... because he did it for his own reasons. The cosmos does NOT owe me a cheater-free existence. I'm just not that special or different to my fellow man. I so mourned the idea that I would never know an unspoiled love. But who am I to demand something like that? Why should I have that while you don't? I'm certainly not better or more deserving than you, right?

I know on first blush, it sounds kind of counter-intuitive to do an ego check when most of us suffer such low self-esteem after an intimate betrayal. But it really did help me to connect "suffering" to the "ego" as Buddhists do. It made me feel more attuned to my humanity. It also increased my ability to allow the cheating to be about my WH and not me.

Do not ever underestimate the devastating effect of this resentment to your long-term health. Dr Debi Silber of the Post-Betrayal Institute has researched over 3000 betrayed spouses, and has found that those who get the most physically ill, and stay the sickest for longest, are reconcilers whose cheaters faced the least consequences ("got away with it").

These people suffer conditions like:

* auto-immune disease

* adrenal fatigue

* digestive disorders

* PTSD

* long-term depression

for years, even decades.

This is the price you pay for choosing to stay with a traitor. Humans are hard-wired to reject betrayal. Choosing against all your natural instincts to stay and suffer this humiliation will keep you sick, possibly until the day you die.

Break free form this hell -- leave your abuser.

Ciao!

Eddie

Oh how I understand what you are feeling. I just could not get past the feeling that I was a chump for staying and worried about the message I was sending to my children. I felt really trapped. My situation was made worse by children who know about the infidelity and a WS who wanted to do the right thing but was so steeped in shame that he ended up doing all the wrong things.

So, to your question, how do you get out of it? For me and through a great therapist it came down to forgiving myself. It came down to showing myself at least the grace I was showing my WS. It actually comes down to self worth. Wasn't I worthy of that grace if my WS was after what he did? Was I the chump or was he? Aren't my children worth making the effort to work towards healthier relationships overall no matter the outcome?

I had to see myself as a whole person, the same was I was choosing to see my WS - not as good or bad but as a person worthy of change and personal growth.

You are worth it too. You are worth understanding, compassion, grace from guess who? From you.

My wife felt enough guilt and shame for both of us. Unfortunately she converted it to anger, which I believe she learned to use long before we met to endure pain. I will never understand how or why she was unable to just say “I’m sorry” instead of what amounted to years of TT and defensiveness. I finally told her I was beginning to give up on her. In fact I played the song “Say Something — I’m Giving Up On You” and said “That’s me right now.” She knows I’m not a quitter, and I think it opened her eyes.

When I met her she had been trying to thrive in sterile soil. Her previous relationship with the woman who was her AP was never about building each other up or caring for their relationship or keeping obligations. Then I came along and proposed a mature relationship, and she was intrigued. She cracked when she began to feel she could not manage a few trials that came our way. I was deeply disappointed. She was ashamed. I was particularly disappointed for her, that she would never be able to say she had been the best spouse she could.

It has been the many times I have read someone else’s story and realized that , like it or not, the horrible affair and it’s aftermath are part of our story now. I have to say I found myself imagining what it must have been like for Hillary, and although I’m sure they must have struggled, she found enough courage to tough it out. I also thought of the many strong and selfless men and women over the ages who have raised the children borne of infidelity, and was just thankful my life was not complicated with that issue. And I simply felt there has to be more to our story: we are not finished yet!

The greatest shame I have felt is for some of the things I did that are far from proud moments.

This thread resonates with me so much. I appreciate reading the responses. Thank you for asking this question for yourself, but also for the rest of us that are struggling with shame.

I am hopeful that it is just one more stage we have to go through to create a stronger relationship in the end. I also think it has a lot to do with forgiving ourselves and that’s going to take time.

SaddestDad

When any of these types of thoughts and shame-feelings occur, it does make it difficult for me to be out and about, but I've noticed that these thoughts only pop up while I'm dark (my word for when I'm having a rough time). Since these thoughts only come up when I'm dark, I've been trying to teach myself that these thoughts are purely manifestations of the darkness. I remind myself that pulling out of the darkness itself should quell these thoughts - and that does occur.

These are wise words.

Just about any time I start going down the A rathole now, I can trace it to something that is making me dark. I don't understand why, but I know it happens and then I address the root thing, which is the real problem anyway.

It's like an internal blame-shifting or excuse-making, I guess.

This is the price you pay for choosing to stay with a traitor.

I think you misread her material. Debi Silber seems to promise that she can get BSes to trust again, and nothing in her advertising seems to say that one has to dump the WS.

I can't be sure of what she means because she charges for almost everything I can find. There are some podcasts and youtube things that are available at no charge.

Does she have any peer-reviewed stuff?

I don't see anything new, but I've only skimmed.

*****

Consequences from the outside don't do much for me. I know my lifestyle causes me problems, but my behavior changes, if any, don't come from the negative consequences.

WSes know the potential consequences of their As, but they still cheat. Robbers still steal. People still drive drunk. People court the death penalty every day. Externally imposed consequences don't keep people from doing things they shouldn't.

The physical effects of living in a way one doesn't want to live are very real. The physical effects of not leaving an unremorseful WS are real.

The connection between 'least (externally imposed) consequences' and physical effects - not close to proven. It's one possibility, but there are others I find more compelling.

But then I think one size usually does not fit all.

Tushnurse and chamomiletea: I have to admit, I might have girl crushes on both of you, as your words always seem to be what I need to hear. I am truly grateful people like you two stick around here.

Thank you to everyone. You have all given me a lot to think on. Also, I knew I was not the only one feeling this way, even if there are people who never post replies, so I’m glad I went ahead and made this vulnerable post.

I have a new goal to get to the root of this shame and sense of self-betrayal. I plan on working through it and coming out better and stronger. What other option do we have?

I have read this thread through a few times over the past few days. For some reason it made me feel so sad. It's awful that someone we love did something to us that was so awful that we felt ashamed of ourselves for forgiveness.

I decided yesterday to end things with my WB. There are no kids involved, the relationship is only three years old, and he has a lot of work to do on his character. I see it will take a long time for him to work through all that, and it would require a lot of heavy lifting and courage from him, which I don't think he is willing and capable of giving.

It was difficult to come to that decision, and incredibly painful, but it was also a kind of relief. These past months, I have been in an almost constant state of inner turmoil trying to reconcile my most loved, most trusted, most safe person with these actions.

Trying to do so have been mental gymnastics. Leaving is sad, and I've been crying solidly for 24 hours, but at least I know what I am dealing with and I can work on putting myself back together rather than wondering what someone else is doing or trying to accept the betrayal and stay with him.

The point of what I am saying is that leaving doesn't make you tougher or stronger or better - actually it is EASIER. Staying and reconciling is DEFINITELY the much harder and more courageous choice and you should not feel shame for that. If my WB had been more pro-active with IC and self-improvement, I would have stuck with it too.

Also, I thought of this song by Sinead O'Connor, which reminds me of all this and the burden of shame which isn't yours to keep. Some of the lyrics are below:

I miss you, but I'm glad you're gone

Take back what doesn't belong to me

The song is about someone who has left their cheating partner, but the lyrics apply just the same. The shame DOES NOT BELONG TO US x

Hey,

I’m new here and this is my first post.

Tomorrow is valentines, and the day after is my 1yr D-Day milestone. It’s been the worst year for many reasons, but made worse by the constant lies I was fed before finally discovering most of the truth in May 2020, and little more bits and pieces discovered up until Nov 2020. I am still not fully settled I have the whole truth. Shame is something I am struggling with immensely, as well as anger and hurt. I stayed as we have 5 children, 3 of which we adopted and struggle with change, so I felt it was important to at least give it a try. My husband is remorseful, is doing therapy (finally), trying everything he can to show he loves me, but nothing seems to be enough to make me feel any better. Some days I feel like I’ve tipped over to hating him. The resentment is overwhelming sometimes. Most people that know about our situation are supportive of my decision to stay, but all it takes is one negative comment or a negative post about how stupid people are for staying with a cheater to knock me back immensely. I feel like a complete blindsided fool.

Confused,

I'm very sorry to read of your struggle and your pain. I urge you to start your own thread so you can get direct (emotional) support.

To respond quickly, though: the SI rule of thumb is 2-5 years to recover, and the 1 year 'antiversary' is very difficult for many of us. In other words, what you're going through may be a normal part of healing - but you'll get more feedback and support if post more, and in your own thread.

Kate88,

I'm sorry you've had to go through the pain of making the go/stay decision. Breaking up is hard to do, even when it's the better choice. I'm writing to mention the D(ivorce)/S(eparation) forum, in case you're not aware of it. (I don't mean to exile you; rather I mean to add another resource for your consideration.)

[This message edited by sisoon at 11:47 AM, February 13th (Saturday)]

I feel waves of shame, when I think about how many people know/knew about WH's A, which is... everyone. All his coworkers, our friends, his family, the teachers and kids/parents at our kid's school. I widh I was joking, but it was our 8yos turn for show and tell and he announced to his third grade class that his dad got a new girlfriend and moved out. The teachers cut his share short and called me in for a meeting, where I basically said, yup. The good part of that though, was that they asked if he could join the "banana splits" club, for other kids whose parents were separated or divorced. He found that to be more helpful that the therapy I put him in.

Anyways... yeah. But then I remember two things: 1. why do I care what other people think about MY life? They're not the ones that have to live it. And, 2. we're legally separated (at my insistence), and we spent many, many months living apart (I didn't let WH move back in after he ended his A), and only moved back in with each othet full-time because of the pandemic. But, because we're legally separated, I could walk away tomorrow, file to be officially divorced, and we've already sorted out everything from child support, to who gets the kids on which holidays, who can claim them on taxes which years, etc.

My shame is in my head. I know it's an ego issue.

I used to be proud of my marriage, I used to be a wife that never joined in with the "my husband" jokes/comments.

I am not proud of my marriage any longer. I am not proud to be his wife. I am not proud that he is my husband.

My experience is limited as I chose to pull the plug. But during my 7 months with my WW during which I was working towards R, I felt two emotions apart from disgust: contempt and shame. I did have contempt for her. When spread out everything she did and said during her cheating, it was huge. And all of it pointed to a human being of very low moral and ethical worth. The shame I felt was that her cheating was common knowledge in the family and with close friends. Our acquaintances did not know or acted as if they did not. But everytime we went out, I would just look at her and think about how utterly embarrassed I was to be seen with her. I was once so proud to have her as my wife and now she elicited the same physical response smelling spoiled food did.

So even if I came back 90%, there would always be that feeling, deep under everything that would spoil the marriage, taint it. I saw this with my MIL. My FIL was a serial cheater and a vain, proud man who could admit no wrong. My MIL rugswept for the sake of the family and her fear of financial ruin. She had 3 kids, the first at 16.

I have never told my STBXWW about the many conversations, pre and post Ddays that my MIL and I had, but they were enlightening. In over 30 years, my MIL has not ever fully forgiven him (he's dead now) and you could see it in their relationship. She has let slip some choice words over the years as well. When he was terminal, she confided in me that she just wanted him to hurry up and die already do she could finally be free.

She was strapped by the fear and shame of leaving and then by the resentment and shame of staying. It was and is tragic. First her, his cheating turned out to be a life sentence. When my MIL found out about my WW' infidelity in all of its sordidness, she was crushed. It was a here we go again moment.

I'll go out on a limb here and say that she is probably a little proud and envious of me leaving, a decision she said she wished she made. That feeling is most certainly balance by sadness for what the family has suffered. But is is what it is.

Leaving instantly cured me of shame. I took control of my life and made my actions and core values align once again. I suspect that there may be an academic or philosophic element to some of the responses on shame here, but the subconscious is a powerful force, and deep down, really deep down in a place we rarely go, some of the commenters may be very conflicted in betraying their core values.

Maybe that's okay. Life is not clean and neat. It is messy and at times ugly. I like what one of the posters said about ego. That hit me. I'll think about that some more.

I have been wondering the same thing, about how there is no real articles or information on the self shame. Also, it seems even harder to find information that are more geared towards men.

In fact, I myself appreciate many of the responses on this chat. Its always good to remember that we are not alone in this.

In the little bit of information I could find on this topic it always appears to be easier for the women to get past the shame than it is for men. Ego, pride, idk what it is but it sucks. Not at all trying to claim that women don't or are not feeling the shame of staying; but rather it seems easier for them to over come it.

I am nearing my 1y anniversary of Dday, and currently in the 1y of my WW A anniversary. I am feeling a lot of back and forth internally.

Yesterday was Valentines day and let me tell you that this particular feeling was overbearing. It was all I could think about. But I did my best to push that aside as I can see my WW try to put in the work. She has been doing all the things and I admit that I do push back alot in my own hurt. At this point I feel that if I or anyone else made the choice to stay then we need to make the best of it.

FWIW, I believe that attempting R ain't for the faint of heart. R is really hard.

But I D'd and have gotten more than one shame-y reaction there as well. Like I wasn't living up to the 'for better or worse' part of my vows, or like I was being hard and unforgiving for divorcing because he 'just made a mistake'. Early on that kind of rhetoric infuriated me (well, it still irritates the shit outta me, ngl) but now I can mostly shrug it off and know that if anyone is shaming me for my choices, then they haven't dealt with infidelity.

I think the shame part is just an unfortunate slice of cheese on the shit sandwich infidelity serves to the BS. For me, my shame part was more how I didn't stand up for myself and how I allowed his bad behaviors to go unaddressed for so long. But those things have also taught me some valuable lessons in self-care and self-awareness that I daresay I wouldn't have learned an easier way.

This is a great post and there have been a number of valuable responses.

For me many of the feelings I had right after learning of her affair were very much expected and intuitive. Each person would feel these in their own way but the fact that I was feeling them certainly wouldnt surprise anyone.

However, one emotion that caught me off-guard was the amount of shame I felt as both the BS spouse and the one who was pushing so hard for the reconciliation. I was the one cheated on yet I had to just ‘accept’ her infidelity.

I thought SaddestDad made some great points. I empathize with the three ‘facets’ of shame he describes although for me I would add a 4th, which is that agreeing to reconcile with her seemed to ‘set’ or to make permanent in some way my feelings of humiliation and emasculation. At least during the reconciliation period I could ‘imagine’ or visualize that I wouldn’t stand for her actions and thus my humiliation seemed to be less sharp. Now, this isn’t possible. I seem to feel greater shame knowing that even with how embarrassed and emasculated I felt I was still willing to accept her back. Maybe this is just the same thing described in a different or personal way, but I feel this acutely.

Reece