SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

This is an interesting convo. I've noticed that being single, though I have to do everything, I feel like I do less than I did when I was married. I guess I do. Fewer dishes, less laundry, one less adult's plans to work around. Being single is harder in some ways and a lot easier in others. I have yardwork now, but I always enjoyed that anyway (much more rewarding than housework). I like being able to reclaim that duty.

Warren Farrel : Today, once children are born, the parents have 3 choices.

The woman can go back to work fulltime, work part time or be a stay at home parent.

Men can work full time, work full time or work full time.

In my marriage, I was the nurturer. If one of my kids skinned a knee, or was sad or had a problem, he or she came to me. Pissed my XW off, but you do not invest in them and th hey ssf o BM ot seek you out.

I have no idea why this computer butchers whatever I type.

Warren Farrel : Today, once children are born, the parents have 3 choices.

The woman can go back to work fulltime, work part time or be a stay at home parent.

Men can work full time, work full time or work full time.

If you find this to be true, I'd be factoring in some of the contributing factors as to why this could be so.

I don't find infidelity to be abuse, but I do find that what is generally paired with it is. Such as gaslighting, etc.

So, what would be acceptable atonement for betraying your spouse?

How does a Cheater “make it right”/

So, what would be acceptable atonement for betraying your spouse?

How does a Cheater “make it right”/

Man, I wish I had a pat answer to that question. I think it differs for every couple. But here's the thing: I think SOME form of recompense is in order. Not just "here's how I'll be such an incredible husband or wife" but something more tangible.

It could be monetary actually (especially if a lot of money was spent on the affairs). It could be taking the lead on getting an iron clad post-nup. It could be agreeing to a divorce on favorable terms unilaterally. It could be publicly acknowledging what they did. These are just a few examples. I'm sure others could think of many more.

If it's just something like "I'll go to IC and be nicer to you" or "look at this Brene Brown book I read, aren't you proud of me?" or "look at my journal with all of my deep thoughts about how I'm healing from my terrible transgression" that seems like cold comfort to me, actually.

[This message edited by Thumos at 5:01 PM, November 13th (Friday)]

My XWH bought me a classic Corvette. My dream car.

Okay so the rest of the story is that he relapsed on drugs like 3 months later and I wound up paying for it and then having to sell it because I couldn't do two car payments as a single mom, but I digress.

It was a good step in his case, though. It was sacrificing money to give me joy when he had sacrificed money to give me pain before. It didn't fix anything, but it showed a massive effort. For a minute there.

Restitution is pretty well accepted as a requirement for forgiveness in some religions.

Here is a suggestion for quantifying it :

Take the average cost for a high priced escort and multiply it times the number of sexual encounters. Then, throw in a bunch of attendant costs: entertainment for the AP, Hotels, free babysitting done by the unsuspecting BS that subsidized the affair, cost of counseling, meds, STD testing, investigative costs(P.I., VAR, Phone recovery cost etc).

The WS takes on a second job to pay this to the BS and kids. They use it as they see fit, vacations sans the WS, Harleys, whatever.

The WS then has to get by on 3 hours sleep for a year. Must lose about 25% of his or her body weight in2or 3 months. Must set up a fund for future, periodic polygraphs and STD testing.

Once that is all done, the playing field is more even.

So, what would be acceptable atonement for betraying your spouse?

How does a Cheater “make it right”

It could be monetary actually (especially if a lot of money was spent on the affairs).

I tallied his expenses for the 15 international trips and local trips my husband took with his AP during their one year affair. It was astronomical.

I received" monetary atonement" in the form of cash, and vacations abroad. Fair enough.

I don't see a 2nd job as recompense. It's more time and energy away from 'home', time and energy that can't be used by the WS to change from cheater to good partner, and that's what the WS most needs to do - to change from cheater to good partner.

To R, the BS needs to accept that what has been given away by the WS can't be recovered. The very best that can be hoped for is that the BS and WS become the best partners they can be.

R may require and result in the partners becoming better partners than they would have been without the A because of the work that the partners do on/for themselves and the relationship.

But I see no way to return what was lost.

Even if you make a purely financial transaction, $ from a 2nd job will be less than $ from the same 2nd job + $ spent on the A.

Of course, R isn't the only option.

[This message edited by sisoon at 12:35 PM, November 14th (Saturday)]

The second job can be performed during the hours the cheater is no longer sleeping. No sense having the family sacrifice financially by allowing the cheater to utilize funds that would, normally, go toward regular family expenses.

With the 3 hour sleeping limitation, much like the sleep deprivation many BS have been forced to endure, the cheater has 5 more hours per day to pay back the debt. No sense utilizing the normal pay to pay back the debt as doing so impacts the family.

This is all facetious, of course. But, it would be deserved, IMO.

We spent a ton of money in the aftermath of dday between two polys, marriage counseling, a new ring, etc. None of that replaced the hole in my heart in my heart. None of it will. A BS who chooses to reconcile has to realize that it is a shit sandwich. That’s it. You make the choice or you divorce. The important thing is that if you choose to reconcile, accept it. Make peace with that decision. It is your choice and you are the one in control of that decision (unless your WS makes it for you).

Hikingout, most women I know in my age bracket would say the same as far as kids go. My WH has never cut a fingernail or toenail in his life, my kids would probably not let him at this point. Now that I work full time he might make breakfast on occasion or assist with packing lunches but he couldn’t tell you who their doctor is or who their teachers are or how to log in and check their grades. It is just different. I know it is not like that in every household, but in most households that I personally know of it is.

Because I stayed at home for 8 years, I lost my career track. I’ve basically had to start over in the past two years. I’m almost back to where I was when I left. That sucks. It’s my biggest regret. I would never do that again if I could go back. I thought it was best at the time for my family and for my kids. It left me with no options when my WH cheated. My WH’s career has flourished because I stayed home and he didn’t have to deal with any of the kid crap and instead had an affair with a 22 year old. Just more of the shit sandwich. It is what it is. I could leave if I choose to.

My WH’s every 2 week yard work and replacement of light bulbs (he is not a handy man) does not compare to the cooking, laundry, managing of finances, school work, day in and day out organization of this family of 5, etc. especially when you factor in COVID.

My WH has stepped up and done more to assist with daily things like laundry, but the responsibility is still mine. It’s tough. He makes more money obviously so the burden still feels like it should be on me because of my own guilt due to the way I was raised.

time and energy that can't be used by the WS to change from cheater to good partner

I don’t see why a WS couldn’t walk and chew gum at the same time. Why couldn’t a second job allow the WS to contemplate how to be a better person while they were also working?

The labor of the righteous tends to life.

I’m not sure why a second job and becoming a better person are mutually exclusive.

we read about all sorts of men and women who worked as a spiritual practice and deepened their character. Dorothy Day comes to mind. So does John Newton, the former enslaver who worked all his days and wrote Amazing Grace. Many other examples. Gandhi wrote of the spiritual value of “bread labor” and said that. “ If everybody lives by the sweat of his brow, the earth will become a paradise.”

Recompense and restitution are very much a part of the truth and reconciliation model. Doesn’t seem unreasonable to expect it. It’s as much for the benefit of the WS as anything else.

[This message edited by Thumos at 2:43 AM, November 15th (Sunday)]

I don't see how money makes up for an A. Money and the things it buys are one aspect of life. The emotions and conflict that come with cheating are quite another. The 2 can't be compared, IMO. I just don't see how ant amount of money would make it easy to deal with the consequences of an A.

I agree there's spiritual value to work, but it comes from focusing on the work.

The only jobs I've held that gave me time to think were library jobs. One year in college, my job was to hand out reserved reading materials to people who requested them. I'd usually get 6 requests on my 3 hour shifts, so I had time to myself while doing the job.

I had warehouse jobs, too, but if I didn't focus on what I was doing, I'd make mistakes and possibly cause accidents. I didn't have a lot of time to consider how to better myself - except that by focusing on the job I like to think I bettered myself. At least I gave my employers fair value. My post college jobs were intellectually demanding.

And no matter what, I don't see how the numbers add up. Consider the fact that I can have 2 jobs with or without an A.

Suppose I have assets of $w, and my income for my 'day job' is $x. I cheat and spend $a on the A and aftermath. I get a 2nd job with income of $z.

With no A, I have income of $x + $z and assets of $a.

With an A, I have income of $x + $z and assets of ($w-$a).

I suspect the calculation is the same no matter what parameter is under consideration.

You can't be in R and expect justice. R is an act of mercy.

This sub-thread is a T/J, and I'm sorry for that.

[This message edited by sisoon at 11:28 AM, November 15th (Sunday)]

You can't be in R and expect justice. R is an act of mercy.

Agreed. The car was a fine gift for the short time it was a gift, but it didn't erase any of the trauma.

I'm not in R. I'm divorced. I didn't and don't expect justice. I don't even know what that would look like. I think retribution of some kind should be expected. Part of the sentencing of all sorts of crime involves retribution. I consider adultery a crime. I don't think there are many, if any, cases where the retribution makes the aggrieved whole.

True, you're right. It isn't going to fix it, but some retribution falls under "the least you could do".

My stbxw could have given me enough recompense by changing into an entirely different person.

Of course that is, and was, impossible.

I fully see that now.

At this point if she moved to a different continent and gave me full custody of my child I would be okay with that.

I might even tell her, "Bon voyage."

For me, it would not be my XW actually doing any of what I suggested. Rather, it would be her showing a willingness to do it that would mean something to me.

For those whose spouse just left, never really witnessing the aftermath, I was thinking if they could see the list of things required( the incredible rapid weight loss, the sleep deprivation, the cost of everything (( meds, counseling, STDtesting etc)) ), it might just give them some small inkling of the pain and destruction they caused.

And, it was needless. They had so many other options.

But, cheaters just do not get it, do not see it. Many have been selfish all their lives, lacking empathy.

I guess that is one benefit: cheating can be the catalyst to get one out and away from such a person. My XW is a monster in so many ways, not just the infidelity realm.

I didn’t ask WH to make a lot of money. He didn’t need to be good looking, even good in bed

Just not cheating, no lying, and no staying in the military

He served 21 years, cheated, lied, and still wasn’t much to look at, wasn’t rich, and rotten in bed

FFS