SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Some of us are CoD and have trouble seeing it because we are not so much focused on "controlling" the situation, but more focused on keeping everyone else happy, and putting our needs on the back burner, and that need to keep everyone else happy becomes consuming, and unhealthy, we lose who we are.

We are the parent, the spouse, but we are no longer ourselves, because we gave up everything about ourself to make sure we were giving 110% to the relationships in our lives.

Tushnurse,

When you put it that way it makes a lot of sense. I can see some of that in me and her, until the affair. We used to frustrate each other because we wanted to do what the other wanted and neither of us would say what we wanted.

Thanks for helping me understand it better.

tonight she seemed ready to take a stand, called me on everything. I am so close to saying no, and just saying goodbye. I think I am screwing myself, But can't totally pull the trigger. What is wrong with me?

tonight she seemed ready to take a stand, called me on everything.

Please elaborate.

What 'stand' is she taking? Why is she controlling things when the control should be ceded to you?

Also, what is she calling you out on?

I am so close to saying no, and just saying goodbye. I think I am screwing myself, But can't totally pull the trigger. What is wrong with me?

There is nothing wrong with you. For me, the most overwhelming feeling I had after my Dday was the feeling of being totally alone. It was really acute for me because (a) my wayward and I had only recently moved across the country to a new city and I knew almost nobody there, and (b) she dumped me for her AP. But I think that feeling of being alone is common among betrayed spouses. Pulling the trigger is hard because it feels like you're going to be even more alone than you already feel.

The overwhelming message here on SI is to get "out of infidelity". There are only two paths: R or D. R is not available to every BS. R requires a remorseful WS who is doing the work and proving herself worthy via actions. You don't have a WW who is even close to remorse or appropriate actions.

But I think that feeling of being alone is common among betrayed spouses.

I agree, but I see it as a type of codependency, a dysfunctional marital dynamic that the WS felt all along that often allows them to cheat in the first place. The WS senses that you need them, so they know they can do whatever they want. It's not every M, but the Healing Librsry's thread on Codependency being a BS's biggest mistake would not exist if this weren't a huge issue in many Ms.

Your need for her is poisoning your R, Achilles.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 10:22 AM, June 25th (Thursday)]

Just an argument That led to more thoughts. I really think she doesn't get it .

I think, while it is not true, that I could have prevented this.

I am beginning to think D is the most likely option.

She just doesn't get it

I agree, but I see it as a type of codependency, a dysfunctional marital dynamic that the WS felt all along that often allows them to cheat in the first place. The WS senses that you need them, so they know they can do whatever they want.

That's a good insight. I had co-dependency tendencies, moreso when I was younger. I believe that had a role in my betrayal. We co-dependents often see this as being the "spouse who loves more" in contrast to our WW, who is the "spouse who loves less". We see an almost nobility to the idea that if we keep "loving more" we can cure the problems in our marriage through the sheer brute force of our love.

If we could only step outside of ourselves, we'd see how twisted that is. In reality, what we perceive as "loving more" is simply feeding the ego and the narcissism of our spouse.

BFTG,

We see an almost nobility to the idea that if we keep "loving more" we can cure the problems in our marriage through the sheer brute force of our love.

For me, close. I recognized early in the relationship that there were issues with her self esteem and childhood. I thought that my stability and love would provide her with a safe place to have a loving relationship. No more BS, a solid relationship. I am no knight in shining armor, just a solid guy who could love someone. I was not trying to save her or fix her, just provide what I could and I thought that would be enough.

Of course I was wrong, but at the time it seemed reasonable to me. Giving was what I was trying to do, not brute force, although the principle is the same. I was wrong and I reap what I sowed. It is what it is and now I deal with it. Sucks, but life is not fair as everyone here knows.

I don't know, just musing.

just provide what I could and I thought that would be enough.

Enough to do what?

Fix her.

Make her happy.

Nobody actually thinks they are the super cool knight on the powerful, conquering stallion. None of us saw ourselves as that special. In fact, that would be far too intimidating. But all of us CoD types were hoping that we found someone who needed us, our humble and pure love for them, our belief in them, our affirmations. And we all hoped "This will be enough. I will matter to this person. They will be so grateful for how much I love them, how loyal and kind I am to them, how devoted."

Let me clue you in. Healthy love is not about proving yourself through the quality or quantity of love you provide. You've already made a deal with the dysfunctional marriage devil when your thoughts revolve around changing them, healing them, fixing their broken and sad past, making them proud, offering them a good life, giving them everything they ever wanted or being everything they ever hoped for. If those are the subconscious marital promises, I am already worried about that person.

Love is not earned. Someone loves you as you are, because your good side is great and your warts are adorable.

I always, always worry when I hear a man say, "I treated her great" or "I treated her like a queen" because they were everyday trying to earn their spouse's love instead of knowing and believing deep inside, "Babe, I am a good guy. Loyal, fun, hilarious, and kind. I enjoy being around you and won't ever let you down. If that's not enough, there's the door." You don't treat someone like a king or queen to keep them. That means you = 0% importance, lowly servant. Them = 100% important, royalty. Good luck with that. Nobody wants to be with a zero. It needs to be "I matter and value me 100% and you matter and I value you 100%. We're a team and we both matter." That is a winning game plan.

ETA: believing you need to earn love is learned very early. It often goes back to one or more unavailable parental figures. The parent who was always:

Working

Drunk

Running a marathon

Doing jobs around the house

Reading the newspaper

Criticizing you

Leaving

Brushing you off

Yelling at you

Inconsistent

High

With a new boyfriend or girlfriend

Shopping

Ignoring you

Treating you like a prop

Talking on the phone

Hurting your feelings

Making you feel you weren't enough

So the pattern begins. You do more, perform more, promise more. You think, "When I offer someone enough, they'll love me right. Finally." That stupid damn parent that intentionally or unintentionally crushed us when we were young just haunts us forever.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 9:08 PM, June 26th (Friday)]

Oin,

Did you ever hear me say I treated her great? No, what I said was I thought I could provide a stable place for her to let her heaL I was never the end all fix all. I thought if I could provide her with a stable place, we could both be happy and please each other.

I am under no allusions that I can fix everything, I thought I could provide for her and make us happy. Pretty simple.

It failed and I get it . I wasn't able to do what I thought I could. But it wasn't for lack of love or trying

By the way I have none of that, I guess I just screwed up on my own.

Let me clue you in, I loved a women who was deeply flawed. I am also flawed. I thought we could make it work because we loved each other. I was wrong. Love is not enough. I get it now, but did not understand it then. I will not let anyone criticize the decision I made then, only the decisions I make now, as these are up for debate

[This message edited by achilles1101 at 11:48 PM, June 26th (Friday)]

I was simply explaining what happens, what many of us do, what I did. I was in no way criticizing. I suppose explaining common dynamics of why we choose who we choose can sound like criticism, but I am simply explaining what so many of us did. And have done. For lots of reasons, but the ones listed are just the common dynamics that kids live through. There are lots of reasons.

Most of us had no clue we were the fixing type when we married our spouses, and it took a long time to see the underneath of our mindset. Things do not become clear overnight. But there is no criticism in the journey, just shared insight.

[This message edited by OwningItNow at 12:07 AM, June 27th (Saturday)]

There's love for who a person is and for what a person does.

I love my W for who she is. Some flaws are adorable; some are not, but I love her as she is, with all of her flaws.

I think the dynamic is this:

That love makes me want to be with her.

What she does for herself, for me, and for others is what keeps us together. I started in the friend zone. If I had stayed there, we would not have married each other.

*****

OIN,

I KNOW it's co-d to tell myself, 'Gee, if I make the sex good, she won't cheat.'

Before her A, I knew good sex required both of us to participate. I knew that good sex was not enough to keep her faithful. I know good sex was NOT enough to keep her faithful.

And yet, every time I think of sex, I hear the message, 'If the sex is good enough, she won't cheat.'

Go figure.

Achilles, you are falling in to a common mental trap by picking out little details in OIN's story that don't apply to your situation in order to discredit her message. "Attempting to fix her" and "providing the right environment for her to heal" - that's a difference without a distinction and the proof is in this next statement:

It failed and I get it . I wasn't able to do what I thought I could.

Same exact thing someone would say in this situation whether they were trying to fix her, trying to give her love to heal her, trying to provide a safe space for her healing, trying to make her happy, or whatever else you think you were trying to do. The feeling you are experiencing and the things you are saying are no different than what any other person with coD says because it doesn't matter what you did or didn't do. The outcome would be the same because your WW needed to fix herself and it doesn't matter what kind of environment she was given. It doesn't matter who she was dating. It doesn't matter if you were too loving or not loving enough. The work was still there for her to do and she chose not to do it. If anything, it says more about her that she had a supportive, loving husband by her side when she made those choices than it says anything about you. It's like she had a full scholarship and grandma's allowance but still flunked out of college because she chose to party too much and not go to class. No amount of love, support, and happy environment from you was going to ever change that.

Point is - YOU did not fail. You did the relationship and her right. SHE failed.

I will agree though that in the future if you find another flawed, broken person with a history of bad relationships, don't bother dating them. It sounds to me like that is a lesson you understand but I know from experience and from also making those same mistakes that it will be a lot harder to say no in the moment when your heart strings are being pulled. You got to keep your head space strong and remind yourself that there's no shame in lending a hand but that you don't want a relationship with someone who isn't working on getting it together themselves.

You guys are right. I think I get the big picture ideas but the details are what screw me up. I get hung up on the love thing. If two people love each other this is not supposed to happen. But it did happen, for a long time. I think when an affair lasts this long there is more to it than what has come out in my situation. Love? I don't know, I don't think so, but something. I know she was attracted to him and desired him, she reacted to him. So what was it?

Musings from a wounded heart.

I have been so frustrated lately and I'm not totally sure why. I am frustrated with her, myself and my situation. So I apologize if I have been terse, not my intent. The rollercoaster I am on has taken some loops and dips.

Anyway, thanks to everyone.

I finally went back to the first posts on this this thread and saw how stupid I was, then I realized how stupid I still am. Life doesn't change.

Then I’ll go back to my first post here (didn’t post til page 5) and remind you what I said. Like others, my advice doesn’t change much. Be clear and honest about what you need and don’t stop moving out of her betrayal, not when she just says she will do those things, but not until SHE ACTUALLY DOES THOSE THINGS.

Don’t try to control what she does. She destroyed the marriage. It will never be the same, so stop trying to make it the same. Tell her what you need to try and rebuild a new one with her and don’t pretend to start rebuilding until she has done those things.

And that includes the new job and NC with the AP forever.

If it were me, I’d tell her it’s unfortunate, but because she chose to have an affair with someone at work, she now can’t stay married to you and still work there. That’s a ramification of screwing around with a co worker. If it were me, I’d tell her if working with him is more important than sharing a life with you, then that is her choice and not one that will allow you to remain in the relationship.

If you have to move across the country to find her a job that will get her away from him, then do it. Ramifications. This is on her. If she has to change careers. Do it.

If you are the love of her life, she will do it. She will do all the things you ask and blame herself for having to do them, not you.

So if you are not getting what you need, and have asked for, there is only one path, tell her that and then start to take steps to get out of this limbo. I’m sorry, but we want to help you find happiness again. We want it to be with her, but you and we can’t control that.

Below is what I wrote on page 5. Not sure you got that far so I’m reposting it.

Take care my friend.

Achilles (always my fave character of mythology)

You are not happy. You don’t have a wife who prioritizes making you happy over all others. You can’t live life like that and have it be enjoyable. You deserve a happy life.

So I’m big on honesty. Saying exactly what you need to be happy in the relationship and if you dont get it, moving on. That’s hard. But the alternative is worse.

So this is what I’d do and say.

Call a lawyer today. Find out what it takes to have D papers served.

Then tell your wife:

I will not be in a relationship where my spouse puts others feelings ahead of mine and cares for the happiness of another man over me. I AM FILING FOR DIVORCE. If you think I am important enough to you to not let that happen, then you have until the divorce is completed to change who you are and how you behave and rebuild this marriage your actions have destroyed.

That includes the following:

- finding an Therapist just for you that specializes in Infidelity and working with them weekly for at least one year

- finding a new job away from the Piece of Shit you cheated with

- NEVER communicating with him in anyway way, starting now

- we will tell his wife what happened and you will not warm him that we will be doing that. It’s completely the right thing to do.

These are just the first steps you have to take to help me heal and show that you care about me more than anyone in the world. Honestly, I don’t expect you have it in you to do it. Because of that I will no longer be talking to you about any of this until the first 4 things I listed are done or well under way for at least a month.

I am moving on without you out of the infidelity you’ve brought to our relationship. Whether or not you join me is your decision. But I’m not waiting around to find out.

You’ll be hearing from my lawyer. I’m not interested in discussion this further.

Achilles. Then walk the talk. Honestly there is no other way to have a chance for R with a wife like yours. If she screws her head on straight and starts acting like the partner she vowed to be, then great. But chances are, she won’t. And you’ll have a head start on getting on with your life and finding happiness.

What you have been doing has not been working. So why not try this. Stating what you need to see to stay, and telling her that when she’s completed it you’ll discuss whether your interested in her still is the only way to go.

You don’t stay when she says I WILL DO IT. You’re only interested when she says “I’ve done it”.

Once you’ve told her this, Get the lawyer to serve the papers and call his wife and tell her you’ve been hurt terribly by your wife and her husband and you didn’t think she should be kept in the dark in her own marriage. She may cry, scream or thank you. But whatever she does it was never your fault.

[This message edited by Stevesn at 9:49 AM, June 30th (Tuesday)]

I finally went back to the first posts on this this thread and saw how stupid I was, then I realized how stupid I still am. Life doesn't change.

Well, do you think it is time to call in the dogs and piss on the fire yet?

Just wondering, I have kept up with your thread and you just don't seem to be making much progress.

Things will change when you want them to change.

She finally pushed through IC and had her first session. It seemed to go well. She is actively looking for another job and has logged on to a job search site with another big medical foundation in our area.

The rub is she also said I needed to consider my back surgery now since the other company she is looking at working for is resistant to surgery, She also mentioned taking a pay cut. All of which pissed me off, but everything pisses me off right now.

BP,

I have not heard that saying in years and laughed when I read it. Not yet my friend, But maybe soon.

Achilles, your first post was April 4th. It’s now days away from two months from that post. Why has it taken two months to get to a point where you should have been on April 5th?