SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

OK, OK, another thing: correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like this Red Pill Male deal is about taking care of your physical health, feeling confident, and not putting up with a partner who treats you badly. Is there more to it than that?

If I've got this right, then why is it a Red Pill Male thing? Why isn't it just generally good advice that anyone, man, woman, gender-fluid person, etc can follow?

On another note, has anyone read "The Lies We Believe" by Chris Thurman?

OK, OK, another thing: correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like this Red Pill Male deal is about taking care of your physical health, feeling confident, and not putting up with a partner who treats you badly. Is there more to it than that?

Pretty much. It's mainly about men getting their balls back and maintaining their balls despite female attempts to chop them off and keep their shriveled up remains in their tiny Coach purses. It requires constant vigilance. Sometimes the forums spin off into gaming women, but that's not anything new. Pick up artists have been peddling their craft for decades. That stuff is discussed alot on the forums and is more entertaining than anything. And then alot of it is exploring the male/female dynamics and gender roles...alpha, beta, etc...and it can be fairly critical of women, since it is a male centric idelism. Feminists hate it because it's sort of a Counterweight against their views....just as capitalists hate communists and vice versa.

it sounds like this Red Pill Male deal is about taking care of your physical health, feeling confident, and not putting up with a partner who treats you badly. Is there more to it than that?

silverhopes, if you are really interested in what this Red Pill Male is please do some research because there certainly is more to it that what you posted. Here is a bit taken from the so called Red Pill Constitution:

19.) The Wall: Men Appreciate, Women Depreciate:

Women are depreciating assets, their major asset and unique selling point is in their beauty and fertility. Most squander their prime, engaging in casual sex with a carousel of men met in recurring dazes of substance-fuelled hedonism. This is what passes for female empowerment.

Thinking the party will never end, such women spend the bulk of their twenties being generally infantile, loutish and irresponsible, believing they have all the time in the world “to settle down.”

Then circa age thirty a strange thing happens, a woman’s looks begin to noticeably decline, every wrinkle eroding the allure and power she is accustomed to. This is only exacerbated by years of debauchery and substance abuse, combine this with poor nutrition from a lack of culinary ability and the modern woman is prone to premature ageing.

It is only with this erosion of power in a woman’s life that a shift in priorities takes hold, such women scramble in desperation to find a man to settle down with, often settling for men they would not give a look but a few short years before.

Men on the other hand are beginning to acquire more power than they had in their twenties around this age, becoming only further attractive. A woman burns brightly in youth but extinguishes quickly with age. Time is much kinder to men, permitting them to age more like wine rather than milk. This is why it is taboo to ask a woman her age, whilst men bear no such sensitivity over the issue.

3.) Women, Logic & Emotional Reasoning:

Women are irrational and inconsistent, they have a capacity for logic but they are not typically inclined to utilise it. Women must exert concentrated effort to be logical for it is not their factory setting, men on the other hand although imperfect have a far more pronounced affinity for logic. As such by matter of preference if not biology, men are near universally superior logicians and decision makers.

4.) Woman’s Manipulative Nature:

Women are Machiavellian by nature. In comparison to the average man, they are far more proficient in matters of persuasion and general social manipulation.

For more stomach churning bullshit, I found these quotes from the Illimitable Men. They bash women. Degrade and dehumanize women. Generalize women. They have 25 points in this particular article, or as the author calls it The Red Pill Constitution. Enjoy!

So that's what it's about? Disparaging women?

Thanks, Sister. Just with the little bit you posted, I don't think I want to know more. It sounds despicable and dehumanizing.

It's mainly about men getting their balls back and maintaining their balls despite female attempts to chop them off and keep their shriveled up remains in their tiny Coach purses. It requires constant vigilance.

Pretty harsh statement to make about women, don't you think? Generalizing, with a very large dose of contempt. How is that healthy?

and it can be fairly critical of women, since it is a male centric idelism. Feminists hate it because it's sort of a Counterweight against their views

Hmm. It sounds more than just critical of women. It sounds contemptuous of women. It doesn't take a feminist to realize that feeling that way towards a half of the world based on what chromosomes they were born with is a terrible idea. Look at the men on this thread who disagree with it. Think of the threads here where a BS, female or male, swears off the other gender, just for posters to gently point out that not every member of the opposite gender is like their WS.

Wow, the more I think about the Red Pill thing, based off of what both Randy and Sister posted, the more I feel both sad and scared. Sad, because living with that much contempt and hate sounds really toxic. Scared because, well, that attitude to be honest is what I would expect from certain abusers. Dehumanizing your target is an important step before tearing them apart. Reminds me of something I read in one of Lundy Bancroft's books, and experienced last year at the hands of my husband.

[This message edited by silverhopes at 4:22 AM, February 1st (Thursday)]

Do any of you Red Pill men have daughters, sisters, mothers?

Is that what you think of them?

Oh, make no mistake, most RP stuff is not at all kind to women; although there is some that is (the book I recommended, for example). And yes, a lot of it is taking care of your health, being confident, and no putting up with crap in a relationship. But there is more to it than that, it's also about what makes many women tick, sometimes for good purpose (to make your wife happy and attracted to you) sometimes for bad purpose (teaching you how to do pick up and quickly move through the "stages" of a relationship to get fast sex and then kinky sex).

Sister, I've never read the document you posted, but, and this is probably the thing about the RP that really makes people mad. The things you posted, while incredibly inflammatory also happen to generally be true. A man's sexual attractiveness does typically develop more slowly than a woman's, and if you have that kind of attractiveness (money, power, status) it lasts longer than a woman's "most beautiful" stage. Yes, older women are beautiful too, my wife is "beyond the wall" by most definitions (because of her age) and she's stunning to me. But, in general, that's a true statement, and there are dozens of ways I can illustrate it; most female porn stars are between 18-25, as are most models. That's the stage in life that men find women to be most attractive because it's the peak of their fertility, it's not that we're a**holes, it's just nature, and that's what nature wants (us to chase after and impregnate women who are in that age range).

Most women do not operate as logically as men. Yes, I've met exceptions, but, in general, that statement is also true. Men are far less emotional than women in aggregate, and because of that, become more logical. That statement can be flipped around against men too, "men are robots without feeling, and, because of that, you have to appeal to their logical side" (which would be "female red pill" teaching). It also happens to be, in general, true.

The "manipulative nature", that's a bit inflammatory, but, I do agree with it, but less so than the other statements you posted. Women have historically had little power, and are smaller and not as strong as men. They had to learn other tactics to get what they wanted (throughout history), those who were good at manipulation were successful, those who weren't.. Well, weren't. So, yes, women do more manipulating to get their way than men do. Just like men do more fist fighting than women do (which is a relatively uniquely male way to "get your way").

The things you posted, while incredibly inflammatory also happen to generally be true.

It seems to me that the inflammatory nature is what makes it appealing to some men. They want permission (ETA: though whose permission, I'm not sure of) to generalize and think badly of women, in the most "logical" terms possible.

Logically, it makes more sense to treat women as people, as humans, with all that entails, rather than looking for faults based on their X-chromosomes. Why? Because women respond better to being treated as humans. When both partners in a relationship have mutual respect for each other, that's what's going to make happier, longer-term relationships. The loss of respect on EITHER side of the equation is when things disintegrate. When you begin a relationship with very little respect, which it seems RP engenders, then how is something positive and truthful expected to grow from that?

My litmus test is this: could you take the same principles, without changing them, and encourage women to follow them for greater personal wellness? Nope. Women would learn to disparage themselves, much like many of us already do. Let's create something better than RP that advocates physical and emotional wellness for everyone.

[This message edited by silverhopes at 5:37 AM, February 1st (Thursday)]

I kind of doubt that they'd enjoy their daughters, sisters, and mothers viewed through that lens.

It seems to me that the inflammatory nature is what makes it appealing to some men. They want permission (ETA: though whose permission, I'm not sure of) to generalize and think badly of women, in the most "logical" terms possible.

I'm not sure about that. I think they are posted in inflammatory ways to "snap men out of it", it takes a sharp hit to the head to get people to think differently, and the things most men are taught about women through their upbringing (or at least mine) aren't usually true. My parents taught me to be nice to and respect women, treat them as equals and expect they are "similar" to a man. Basically, see the world with no gender. The problem is, that doesn't work, I did that for years, and found myself with a lot of female "friends" and no female partners. I didn't build attraction, because I was too busy trying to be nice and be a friend.

Enter the RP (well, back in my day, it wasn't called that, it was pick up artist, but, it's basically the same general script). I went from having no sexual partners to plenty. Women were more attracted to me, and I was able to enjoy my time with them much more. Yes, I lost many of my female "friends" but I gained a lot more female lovers. And, at least for me, but I suspect for many men, I didn't really want the friends, I wanted the lovers. Yes, this is a hard thing to say and probably to hear, but, in general, I don't think that many men want to be friends with women; we will do it if there's sexual interest and we think "we've got a shot", but, if not, we just don't have (or at least I've never met a woman) a lot in common or to talk about.

I don't think badly of women because of what I learned from that process (which, BTW, is ~20 years ago now, so it's not like I'm a young buck anymore). I think I understand women better, and understand how to make them attracted and sexually interested in me. That's not a bad thing, at least not in my eyes. I guess the corollary would be a woman wearing a short skirt out to a party, do you think less of men because they are looking? Because you know that's what they are attracted to and they are responding to it? It's just different, a different way to get the opposite sex attracted to you. Women are taught by society at a young age the things that many men really are attracted to (put bluntly), thin, big boobs, sexually provocative clothing, makeup. Men are taught, or at least I was, that women are attracted to men who will dote on them and treat them like a princess. The problem is, that's not true, or at least not in general, women are far more attracted to men who who are aloof and use push/pull tactics than they are to the "reliable nice guy" who we were taught to be by our parents. That's what the RP is about, or at least it was, talking about what women really want, and then, on the darker side, how to pretend to be those things to engage in short term relationships with women. Because, in many cases, that is what men want (short term relationships/casual sex) and they don't know how to get it. And I think that's probably the message that women should really take from this, not that men are terrible people, but that our interest in women is very often driven by our sex drive, not our desire to be friends. A lot less A's would happen if women realized how many men think and the things that they value from women, especially women who are going to be short term partners.

Randy, your posts have been reflective of MGTOW/Red Pill for some time, I hope you didn't just use this as an opportunity to inflame the conversation here.

SI is meant to be a safe place for all genders, it greatly saddens me to hear terms such as Chad and Beta used here. There are men here who are hurting, they doubt themselves and their masculinity enough without having to measure themselves against such dismissive and emasculating terms.

Ive read a fair few red pill/MGTWOW sites and for some reason have watched some of the YouTubers as well, its not a movement aimed at empowering men, or else 90% of the information would be on physical, mental and financial health topics specific to males. Instead 90% if not more is focused on women, and not just on negative behaviour traits but on physical shaming as well.

Its a hate movement, as so eloquently described by your description of women keeping mens shrivelled up balls in their Coach purses. The inference? Women are only out for material possessions (Coach purse) and men who try to keep women happy are, as you label them, Beta.

Its somewhat ironic that a movement so focused on how terribly women treat men is so damning and judgemental toward other men as well. Who are YOU to refer to other men as Beta? The majority of true Alpha men I know - and I work in a very male dominated field and have avery Alpha type SO - don't judge other men because they don't need to. Its the keyboard warriors who love to scream out about how Alpha they are and how lesser other men are that make me roll my eyes thinking okay buddy. Real 'alpha' men are confident and self assured, they don't need to belittle others.

How can you read the posts of the women here who have been hurt by their husbands and not see that betrayal is not gender specific? Most of these women didn't marry their husbands due to hypergamy - because yep, all us women are just dreaming' about a man to look us into middle class suburban life nor were they out riding the ol' cock carousel (my personal favourite MGTOW term- it cracks me up ever time).

I think you should keep your red pill rubbish where it belongs and not bring it to a safe place like SI, you know this already as evidenced by your escalation in your posts - you just wanted to sprout your nonsense.

Your insecurities are showing Randy and its not very Alpa at all.

Differences between males and females that are born from evolution should not be viewed as positive or negative. Is logic more valuable than intuition? Strength more valuable than persuasion? The differences should not be viewed negatively or disparage one gender over the other. But it is impractical to pretend that the differences do not exist—although it is equally impractical to not recognize that individual variation can override any generalizations. For example, the women in my profession apply logic not emotion or intuition to analyze.

SI is meant to be a safe place for all genders, it greatly saddens me to hear terms such as Chad and Beta used here. There are men here who are hurting, they doubt themselves and their masculinity enough without having to measure themselves against such dismissive and emasculating terms

Its that very reason that makes this post worthwhile. Red pill is not all that different from a predatory partner that seeks out the recently divorced to use for their personal gain. Not discussing the risk associated with it creates a vulnerability or blind spot. In discussing the matter, he's doing a lot of folks a service. I would rather have a new bh here see this thread than one of the ones from reddit. To give it another comparison, its not all that different from alot of what chumplady says, just with male dynamics.

Just a reminder that we do have guidelines about Politics and Generalizing. Please think about those before hitting submit. This isn't a place for "Us" vs. "Them".

I agree PlanC, in probably the majority gender differences are innate, and can be positive - I don't think that feminism or true men rights movements (Not red pill/MGTOW!!) would argue that.

I love cooking, I always wear makeup and after having to channel a lot of masculine energy at work love to come home, replace my work clothes with a dress and cook my SO and I dinner. This doesn't make me any less a strong woman.

My SO loves to surprise me with gifts - and yes even a handbag from time to time- he likes to provide and to demonstrate his feelings in this manner, it does not make him Beta (and I just checked but I didn't see any balls in there thank God, I'm not sure what the hordes of women who apparently collect them do to prevent them from smelling, might ask one when she hops off the cock carousel for a break).

I am laughing at your post, Yuvas. Well-done.

<<<< had to look up the term Red Pill

Then you will point out that Laura was at same company as Tom and they have the same education and are the same age, but she is making less. Probably didn't have anything to do with her taking 2 years off from her career to start a family and needing to leave at 4pm everyday to get them to soccer practice on time...

Are you using this as an example to support paying less or not promoting women?

And there is a real false rape problem???? I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I'd love to see any statistics compare false rape vs women being raped. Did you not see the me too campaign? Just in my book club, half of us have been sexually assaulted. Half. I think we need less men thinking they are dominant over women not more.

Have you seen what is happening on campuses recently? Google "Emily Joffe, Atlantic, campus rape" and read her series. It is down right frightening for men - some girl comes on to you, has sex with you, then months later claims you raped her? Or a third party claims you raped your girlfriend, even though she says it never happened, and you are found guilty?

Hell, look at Aziz Ansari. Completely consensual, yet months later she writes an (anonymous) article claiming she was "sexually assaulted."

The far left has been conflating harassment (flirting), assault (groping) and rape to include them all in their definition of "rape."

Or, just look at how many men on this site have been accused of DV by their WWs; myself included. Do you really believe that women will make false DV claims at a pretty high rate, yet will never make false rape allegations? That's just not realistic.

Of course there are more true allegations than false, and every allegation should be taken seriously and investigated.

But today's "women's rights" movement pushes the view that no woman lies and all allegations are true (again, see campus "trials" with no due process, mattress girl, etc.; Emily Lindin (columnist) saying some men being falsely accused is a small price to pay to undue the "patriarchy").

Considering the impact on one's life is catastrophic when accused of such a crime (when the accused is plastered all over media, but the accuser never is - even if proven to be a malicious falsehood), we better be very careful in throwing words around carelessly, and believing people blindly.

That is why women only earn .76 for every $1.00 a man earns at the same job.

This is a false talking point. The statistic of women making $0.70 to every $1 a man makes is based on total income, across ALL jobs, ALL experience, ALL ages. When you compare the same age, experience, job the numbers are <$0.10.

Not to say there isn't discrimination in the work force, but it's not $0.70 for the same job.

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These topics, like the Red Pill view, just show that taking the view of the extremes is not helpful. The truth is usually somewhere in the middle (Ladies, don't tell us men that you find athletic, rich, confident men unattractive. )

Then you will point out that Laura was at same company as Tom and they have the same education and are the same age, but she is making less. Probably didn't have anything to do with her taking 2 years off from her career to start a family and needing to leave at 4pm everyday to get them to soccer practice on time...

Are you using this as an example to support paying less or not promoting women?

What he is saying is that the woman who missed two years of work will likely have not made as significant of contributions and will likely not have had as high of merit raises during that time.

And this has nothing to do with gender - if you compare two people, and one works the standard 40h week and the other works 60h/wk, or one takes a year off of work, who is going to accomplish more?