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Reconciliation :
Stuck

Topic is Sleeping.
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 artsoup (original poster member #52602) posted at 4:19 AM on Monday, January 30th, 2023

I feel so stuck. I’m still not happy or feel like WH prioritizes me.

6 years out.

He says I say hurtful things to cut him down & beat him down emotionally which is at least partially true.

From my perspective I usually do it when I’ve had enough. Enough of his drinking and going out or just general disassociation and "checking out".
He says he "checks out" because of my meanness & disrespect.

So it’s a vicious cycle. I want to try to break it but he never wants to talk about it.

I tried tonight and was met with "you manipulated me into having this conversation by threatening to leave me if I didn’t talk to you"

He calls me manipulative and controlling frequently but I just don’t see it.

I really think it’s fair for me to say "if you don’t want to work on these issues I’m going to leave"

But then he’ll seemingly "work" on it but say I manipulated him into it.

I definitely don’t want to manipulate him into working on the marriage. But if he doesn’t want to work on things shouldn’t it be fair for me to want to leave.

I’m trapped in this cycle and I have no clue what to do.

Dday 2/28/16 False R. Then D-day's 2,3,4 in July & August 2016.
More uncovered February 2018.
Almost 4 years, still on a healing journey

posts: 356   ·   registered: Apr. 5th, 2016   ·   location: Urban coast.
id 8775313
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ff4152 ( member #55404) posted at 10:49 AM on Monday, January 30th, 2023

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

He doesn’t sound like he is ever going to change. From what you’ve described, he has no real incentive to change. This will reach a crisis where you’ll threaten to leave and he’ll do the minimum until you back off. Then the cycle repeats.

If this is still happening after 6 years, you have to really sit down and ask yourself if this is what you want. Do you want to be on SI in another 6 years asking the same questions? JMO but I think you need to seriously think about following through with leaving or having him do so.

Me -FWS

posts: 2102   ·   registered: Sep. 30th, 2016
id 8775320
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Luna10 ( member #60888) posted at 11:15 AM on Monday, January 30th, 2023

It doesn’t sound to me like your WH is capable of change.

One thing I’ve learnt post dday is that if you want to build a better marriage and a better relationship, good communication is key. I thought we had good communication skills prior to dday but infidelity really showed us what good communication skills look like. Drop the defensive response, really listen to what the other person is saying rather than listening in order to prepare a clever response, be able to understand what is relevant in a conversation and that the aim is to find solutions to problems, show empathy and respect the other person’s feelings rather than aiming to prove they’re wrong to feel that way.

Someone like your WH who claims that conversations are happening because you manipulated him into having one is not someone who wants to improve a relationship. Discussing your relationship problems is not manipulation.

I’m not sure you have much to work with, sorry.

Dday - 27th September 2017

posts: 1850   ·   registered: Oct. 2nd, 2017   ·   location: UK
id 8775323
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LIYA13 ( member #62026) posted at 2:07 PM on Monday, January 30th, 2023

When we decided on reconciliation it was something we both wanted. At first I think he wanted it more than me. I remember i used to be mean to him. I didnt mean it. Its just the things i came out with was mean. I did not realise that I was being mean till one day he came out with it. He even said that if i continue to be mean like this then reconciliation was not worth it. He didnt want to treated differently because of his wrong doings. He wanted to feel like he was still important to me and that I respected him. I mean how do you respect someone who betrayed and disrepected you? Its difficult. I did realise that I was much nicer to people around me then I was to him. I didnt blame myself for being like that. I did change as a person. Why should i continue to be that inncocent 20 year old you met. Ive grown through my life experiences especially this one being the biggest impact on my life.

I think since he pointed out to me that i wasnt very nice to him I have been trying since that day. I have my moments when I get annoyed at him for no apparent reason or for not doing what he needs to help support me. These moments are short lived. He is actually a great person. He just messed up. That mess up being the biggest f**k up of his life.

Ive never felt like i manipulated him nor has he ever mentioned it. I dont think im controlling but if I was i think he will definitely be the first one to point it out.

posts: 231   ·   registered: Dec. 29th, 2017   ·   location: United Kingdom
id 8775347
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Chaos ( member #61031) posted at 5:38 PM on Monday, January 30th, 2023

This reads to me like your WH is saying "I'm all in for R if you'd just shut up and rugsweep"

IMHO this is fraught with red flags a wavin' everywhere.

BS-me/WH-4.5yrLTA Married 2+ decades - Children (1 still at home) Multiple DDays w/same AP until I told OBS 2018 Cease & Desist sent spring 2021"Hello–My name is Chaos–You f***ed my husband-Prepare to Die!"

posts: 3797   ·   registered: Oct. 13th, 2017   ·   location: East coast
id 8775384
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 5:56 PM on Monday, January 30th, 2023

Remove yourself from the vicious cycle. He's ok with it,because it benefits him. It's not benefitting you. Stop waiting,and hoping,he will get it. He's shown you he doesn't, and he has no intention of doing so.

Save yourself.

I will be everywhere you look,but nowhere to be found. And that will be my revenge.

posts: 6711   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8775389
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 artsoup (original poster member #52602) posted at 11:17 AM on Tuesday, January 31st, 2023

So what do I do to remove myself?

To move out I will have to close a business, sell our house. I’m the only steady income right now so what does that mean for our kids.
If I don’t want to leave I should probably stop complaining but how do people who stay married in frustrating, unfulfilling marriages cope? I just feel so angry.

I know it’s not going to get better but I feel so so so guilty. I have friends married to narcissists & horrible people and my situation isn’t that bad.

I definitely have a temper and I get so frustrated with the lack of emotional, sexual and companionship I feel I get angry and say mean things. Last night I stormed off because he was rushing things "in bed" and not caring about my needs- I had just had it and didn’t want to spend another night frustrated while he thinks everything is fine.

The problem is he’ll be mad & take it out on me now, I guarantee there will be no compassion or forgiveness for me it will just be another thing he holds against me and stalls the relationship.

So I feel like I’m holding the reigns all the time. I need to have the right reactions (or none at all), say they right things, use the right tone, bring things up with it’s the right time for him, initiate the conversations, initiate the sexual relationship.

I’m just so frustrated & exhausted. I feel like quitting my job, I don’t want to get out of bed. I’m pretty good at continuing to exercise but I have no motivation to do anything else.
I’ve been trying to visit with friends and stay positive but I’m so bogged down.

Everyone on this site keeps telling me to get out. Is there any hope? I’m thinking of getting another therapist since my last one won’t return my emails.

So that will be my 6th therapist!

Dday 2/28/16 False R. Then D-day's 2,3,4 in July & August 2016.
More uncovered February 2018.
Almost 4 years, still on a healing journey

posts: 356   ·   registered: Apr. 5th, 2016   ·   location: Urban coast.
id 8775482
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Grieving ( member #79540) posted at 1:01 PM on Tuesday, January 31st, 2023

You sound deeply unhappy.

I don’t have any advice about your marriage; my main thoughts are that your husband’s mindset (and your understandable level of anger) are incompatible with reconciliation.

But I do think you can work on your own happiness, even if you’re not ready to divorce. Stop focusing on your marriage and your husband; those are things that you do not have unilateral control over. Focus on your own happiness. Do things you enjoy. Foster a healthy, happy relationship with your kids. Pursue meaningful friendships and fun connections with people. Pursue peace of mind through whatever avenue makes sense for you. You do have control over your happiness, whether or not your marriage lasts or turns out like you want.

Husband had six month affair with co-worker. Found out 7/2020. Married 20 years at that point; two teenaged kids. Reconciling.

posts: 630   ·   registered: Oct. 30th, 2021
id 8775489
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 3:21 PM on Tuesday, January 31st, 2023

You say your marriage isn't "that bad."

It it. It sounds horrible. You sound so very sad.

How do you stay,if you don't want to leave? Detach. 180. Stop treating him like a husband. Stop doing things for him. Stop having sex. Stop trying to talk about things,because you will only bring more pain. Treat him like an annoying roomate. Be polite, but not overly friendly. Tell him you can't have a sex with a man who doesn't care about your well being.

I will be everywhere you look,but nowhere to be found. And that will be my revenge.

posts: 6711   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8775511
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Bor9455 ( member #72628) posted at 3:37 PM on Tuesday, January 31st, 2023

You have a right to be happy in your marriage and kindly, you do not seem very happy with your marriage. Take infidelity out of it. It almost seems like the two of you are not communicating on the same level here.

Myself - BH & WH - Born 1985 Her - BW & WW - Born 1986

D-Day for WW's EA - October 2017D-Day no it turned PA - February 01, 2020

posts: 667   ·   registered: Jan. 21st, 2020   ·   location: Miami
id 8775514
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Oldwounds ( member #54486) posted at 4:44 PM on Tuesday, January 31st, 2023

You’re not trying to manipulate or control him, you’re asking him to help you to build and strengthen the relationship.

A very fair question of any partner in any relationship is asking them, "What are you doing to help me make this better?"

You’re asking for empathy, you’re asking for consideration. Does he truly believe gifting you empathy and consideration about your wants and needs is a bad thing or some sort of trick/manipulation?

If he thinks that, then I agree with the others in that you just don’t have someone to work with. No partnership.

The big changes are always hard if you go, but no amount of misery is worth being with someone who does not make you a priority (with or without infidelity — it sounds unhealthy in any relationship, much less where your WH caused so much harm).

At some point, you will have to choose you.

No matter how hard the work is to move on, any result is better than living with someone who cannot or will not help you or the M.

Married 36+ years, together 41+ years
Two awesome adult sons.
Dday 6/16 4-year LTA Survived.
M Restored
"It is better to conquer our grief than to deceive it." — Seneca

posts: 4719   ·   registered: Aug. 4th, 2016   ·   location: Home.
id 8775524
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tushnurse ( member #21101) posted at 8:15 PM on Tuesday, January 31st, 2023

This is not R, this abuse. Shut up do what I want or I will make life miserable for you.
This is not acceptable.

Have you done any therapy for yourself? Have you done any reading about DARVO? If not please do so.

I get not wanting to leave or end the M, but you need to decide if you want to live with this abuse, and being forced to have sex when you don't want to is abuse. Not wanting to do the work to fix it is his issue, and no matter how hard you try to you can't make him.

Me: FBSHim: FWSKids: 23 & 27 Married for 32 years now, was 16 at the time.D-Day Sept 26 2008R'd in about 2 years. Old Vet now.

posts: 20191   ·   registered: Oct. 1st, 2008   ·   location: St. Louis
id 8775565
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ladyphoenix ( member #72766) posted at 1:03 PM on Wednesday, February 1st, 2023

My therapist calls it "offending from the victim position" where we feel justified at attacking our spouse because they hurt us to begin with. It's a thing, look it up for more info.

It used to make me so angry when my FWH would say my tone of voice was "nasty", even that word makes my skin crawl now. My thoughts were "you can blow up our life, but I have to talk to you in a soft, kind voice??? are you kidding me" but I learned that saying that was not productive (after saying it so many times). And I also learned that for him to say that to me was him standing up for himself and being vulnerable in the moment.

He has a right to a relationship without "nasty" just as much as I have the right to a relationship with honesty.

You are feeling stuck in the hole of infidelity and he is on the surface walking around like nothing has changed. You just want him to care enough to show that you are a priority. To see you in that hole and say "I see you, I know I put you there, and want to help you get out." But the only time he engages with you is when you demand his attention. And his response is defensive and hostile. Unfortunately he has to want to change and if he doesn't see that nothing you do can make it happen.

The above advice about the 180 might be your best option.

Maybe it is time to make yourself a priority. You take care of you. Do something for yourself today that makes you feel happy. Even if it's just a quiet cup of coffee. Plant some seeds and when you are feeling like you want to be mean and hurtful, take a moment to care for your plant. Watch it grow. New life is amazing to observe but it takes time and patience. Know that you are like those seeds and if you nurture and care for yourself you will flourish and thrive. Hopefully the mean and hurtful will pass, and you will find happiness within yourself.

M 25 years, together 31. DD1 Feb 2019, DD2(TT) June 2019, DD3 (TT) July 2019, (TT) March 2020, (TT) Sept 2020.We have 3 children: 24,20, 15 and two grandchildren since 2019. We work daily on R and building a stronger relationship.

posts: 149   ·   registered: Feb. 8th, 2020   ·   location: Canada
id 8775631
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 artsoup (original poster member #52602) posted at 3:05 AM on Thursday, February 2nd, 2023

The problem with the 180 for me is I feel so hurt and lonely- it’s no issue for him if we don’t have sex or I don’t do things for him. He doesn’t care. Honestly I think he prefers it that way.

Actually a big issue for me is I feel so so so so sexually frustrated. It makes me so angry and hurt. I try to meet his needs and enjoy it but when my needs are put on the table he’s too tired or it turns into a fight. I’m literally devastated by this.

I feel so disgusting, unwanted and undesired but learning my marriage and a broken home for my kids because my sexual needs aren’t being full filled seems so selfish.

I have major anger outbursts because I feel this way, I threw a glass into the sink and it broke. I’ve done this many times in our relationship mainly because I feel this frustration.

He says I’m psychotic & I can’t say I disagree with him. I’m just so low right now.

Dday 2/28/16 False R. Then D-day's 2,3,4 in July & August 2016.
More uncovered February 2018.
Almost 4 years, still on a healing journey

posts: 356   ·   registered: Apr. 5th, 2016   ·   location: Urban coast.
id 8775758
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FunHouseMirror ( member #80992) posted at 1:51 PM on Thursday, February 2nd, 2023

You're not psychotic. You are in a relationship with someone who only thinks about himself. You will have to decide whether or not this is how you want to live. Six months out, six years out, twenty years out. This man is not going to change.

But you can.

You can either resign yourself to this is how it's going to be, or work on extricating yourself from this miserable existence. And remember that if you are miserable, your kids will not be happy either. There is too much tension, and it hangs like a cloud over the household.

I hope you choose happiness.

posts: 248   ·   registered: Sep. 21st, 2022
id 8775784
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BellaLee ( member #58324) posted at 7:53 PM on Friday, February 3rd, 2023

Hi @artsoup I'm so sorry you're here 6 years on with so much still unresolved in your R journey. I know you've had IC but what about your H and when you decided to R did you have MC. It seems a lot was rug swept and honestly it will be hard to have a successful R if you don't deal with the issues in your relationship.

You're not psychotic, a healthy marriage should be sexually and emotionally fulfilling so your feelings are very valid.

I'm not sure why you're on your 6th therapist, is there something that keeps happening causing you to change therapists. I do hope you're able to find the right therapist to help you get stronger emotionally and be able to move forward in your healing journey.

I'm always rooting for true R for marriages after infidelity but aware of the reality that it takes two committed people willing to work on their marriage but sadly it seems from what you've said it's only you wanting to do that.

Praying the near future brings you complete healing and the wisdom you need for your decisions.

posts: 270   ·   registered: Apr. 18th, 2017
id 8776113
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The1stWife ( Guide #58832) posted at 10:46 PM on Friday, February 3rd, 2023

I am so sorry that you have been so misunderstood and unhappy these past years.

I think trying to have continued conversations with someone who doesn’t want to get it is the basis of your anger and frustration.

It seems as though your husband looks for an excuse to check out because he wants to avoid any engagement in trying to have a happier marriage. I completely understand your frustration and sadness over this.

What I would suggest is that you give yourself a 30 day ban from discussing anything regarding your relationship with him. Don’t ask him any questions. Don’t try to discuss things even in a calm rational manner .

At the end of those 30 days I think you should then decide if this is the kind of relationship you want to stay in. If you decide that you deserve better, then I would suggest you start putting a plan together to either separate, divorce, or live to completely separate lives even though you remain married . I’m not suggesting that you cheat but I am suggesting that you have a rewarding and happy life separate and apart from your marriage.

I know people who have done this and they are able to cohabitate and come together when needed, but their social lives are completely separate. I think you deserve to find joy and happiness in your life and if that means you go out of the house three or four nights a week to do things that make you happy, then that is what has to happen.

I hope this helps you. I think you need to stop trying to discuss anything with someone who has shown you they are not interested.

Survived two affairs and brink of Divorce. Happily reconciled. 10 years out from Dday. Reconciliation takes two committed people to be successful.

posts: 13947   ·   registered: May. 19th, 2017
id 8776135
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Hurtmyheart ( member #63008) posted at 2:19 PM on Sunday, February 5th, 2023

From my perspective I usually do it when I’ve had enough. Enough of his drinking and going out or just general disassociation and "checking out".

I'm not sure if I've read all of your posts. Is your WH an alcoholic?

I’m thinking of getting another therapist since my last one won’t return my emails.

So that will be my 6th therapist!

So why do you think is the reason for this? There is a pattern here. What do you think is going on?

posts: 910   ·   registered: Mar. 12th, 2018
id 8776287
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Hurtmyheart ( member #63008) posted at 2:24 PM on Sunday, February 5th, 2023

Okay, I just skimmed over your posts.

This right here is your problem and his.

He definitely has addiction issues and struggles with transferring addictions/obsessions. It’s exhausting.
It could be working out, a video game, drinking, internet, podcasts he gets obsessed with probably other things I don’t know about. It’s always "something".

posts: 910   ·   registered: Mar. 12th, 2018
id 8776288
Topic is Sleeping.
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