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I totally agree with gotmegood. If I had dday to do over, God forbid, I would have insisted that he go. I let him stay for the same reasons, thought he was vulnerable to urges. I was WAY too considerate to what he was going thru. That has to stop now! If there was ever a time to be completely selfish, it's now. Shut his noise out and focus on what you need. It's hard gotcha. So very hard but, so very necessary now at this critical time.

Sometimes it's this jolt (making them leave) that really opens their eyes to the gravity of the situation. Otherwise, they know they can play on your sympathies and string you along for an obscene horror ride.

Just follow your heart. It won't steer you wrong! I promise!

I am very much in agreement with everyone else. He needs to leave the house. In his present state, he is in denial, he is angry with you, and he is trying to manipulate, blame, and gaslight you. He has no remorse or empathy for what he has done to you. He is not safe to be around. If he won't go voluntarily, talk to your lawyer and pursue legal steps to get him out of the house. Don't forget to change the locks.

This is about self-preservation. If you are going to get through this, you have to tune him out and move forward thinking only of what is best for you and your baby. He may be an addict, and he has a lot of work to do before he gets better, IF he gets better. That is his job. He does know exactly what he is doing and what he has done, and he is 100% responsible for his actions. Ignore any pity play attempts he will more than likely try on you in an attempt to manipulate you. And always remember, you are the one to be pitied, you are the victim. Not him.

I just have to say these type of guys make me sick I am not the perfect guy but to me marriage means forever and the fact he could do something this horrible to the person he said his vows just makes me smh and wonder if I am the weird one? Sorry not trying to t/j.

Thanks everyone.

I told my therapist the same thing yesterday! I thought he needed to live elsewhere but I was scared that he would continue his antics if I weren't there to patrol him.

I feel like I'm slowly gaining the insight to know what to focus my energies on and formulate a plan and that makes me feel better.

Yesterday was heartbreaking for me, hearing him say he doesn't need therapy. Bc then I realized that it was worse than I thought. How can someone be so delusional?

Even if he does go to therapy, he has made it clear he isn't really opened to actual treatment. I hope this CSAT is good at weeding out the bullshit.

Goodasicanbe, good to hear there are good men out there. I think part of me will never be able to trust a man fully again.

Also, GAICB... I'm pretty sure he was meaning forever to be forever too. (In terms of divorcing)

Having his wife and his son makes him feel normal. He wants so much to be a better dad to his son than his parents were. He wanted both worlds.

I don't really think he thought through the overarching consequences of his actions.

Whether he is in or out of the house, if he isn't in a successful treatment program, it is highly likely he will continue and escalate his antics.

You can't patrol him 24/7, unfortunately. He can always do it at work, where you cannot watch him and he can get sex for free, for example Craigslist. No financial trail for you to follow. And he will put his job on the line in order to do this.

That is why this is so crazy-making for the spouses of sex addicts. It becomes a game of cat and mouse, with lies and deception galore. All you will have is a nagging feeling in your gut that he is still acting out, and you have no proof, until the next D day.

You're completely right.

I truly feel that he's just waiting for the right time where he feels like he can get away with it in some form.

The other morning we got into it because I said I didn't want him looking at porn anymore. He basically said well let's get divorced. Do I not get any privacy anymore?! I said no, you lost all your privacy when you cheated on me multiple times.

He about lost it. The bottom line is if you'd rather have porn than have a wife and a son and a real life... then we definitely have a problem, a HUGE problem. My therapist agrees.

I know part of it is that he feels himself losing control and he likes to have control over me.

When he agreed to tell me everything, I did ask him why he didn't just go to Craigslist in Casual Encounters and get free sex there instead of paying for it. He said in his mind, he rationalized that if he was paying for it, it wasn't cheating. He'll probably troll Craigslist next if I had to guess. No money trail.

I have to add a few thoughts: you will hurt, you will be frightened, and you will be angry that you've been forced to change your life....this is to be expected, you are normal. But you sound strong Gotcha, and you will be a survivor. One of the other reasons to separate at this moment is to break the sick patterns that exist in your relationship. I believe that he wants you and your family. And he thinks that he can get you/keep you by using the same manipulations that he's always used. They worked before. I mean, think about it. Think about what he's done. As someone else wrote, think about finding an unknown person (in my case, from a picture on the internet for god's sake), contacting it and having sex with it! Criminal history, sexually transmitted diseases, etc, all buried in their search for their 'fix'. Then he comes home to you and your child, and pretends he's 'normal'. When they are initially 'outed' , it is rare that they just all of a sudden 'get it'. They have been lying to themselves for so long, and it was working, so they continue. Your clear thinking and logic will come back soon after you shut out his sick 'noise'. And it may be the wake-up call he needs. But even if it isn't, you deserve to live a clean authentic life.

You're right.

I know he feels that if he's able to keep his family in tact, he will give himself a security of being "normal."

He definitely has not hit rock bottom yet. He gets very vindictive when he is desperate. I'm not looking forward to that.

I am impressed with how you have handled all of this. His reaction is textbook addict behavior. You are attacking his drug of choice, telling him he can't have it. He, in turn, attacks you. Fortunately, you have been strong enough to seek the right kind of help and use it.

I don't have any other advice except to suggest an SANON meeting or COSA meeting. The RL support is valuable. Unfortunately, the two haven't yet gotten up to date with the new definition on coaddicts, that it means you have been profoundly hurt, not that you are co-addicted...but still, the human contact with folks who have btdt, and the practical life lessons taught are valuable.

Do put yourself first. He has to hit bottom. And he will. Whether he chooses to get help is his choice.

Thanks

I have family coming into town starting today, so I'm going to enjoy the distraction and enjoy my family who I only get to see only so often.

Luckily, my H will be working for the most part (yay, car business!).

I don't feel as sad and hopeless as I have felt the past couple of days. Will look into COSA meetings. I think they offer one at my church.

Hi gotcha..hope you are doing well.

Hi everyone,

Just checking in. I appreciate your words of encouragement and they help me gather my strength to stand up for what I know is right.

This weekend went okay. I was able to put on a good face with my husband and pretend like everything is fine... Like I normally am able to do. Having everyone in was a great distraction from the real things going on in my life.

I had my second therapy session yesterday and we talked about setting some boundaries.

I'm really struggling with getting him to abide by any boundaries I set. He slept in bed with me this weekend bc family was in town. Now that we had to pretend everything is ok, of course he wants to keep that going. I told him I still wanted to sleep in separate beds. He got mad and said I would have to sleep in the guest bedroom. We both slept in the same bed again.

I'm so mad at myself. I don't know how ill ever improve the situation I'm in without leaving if he constantly bulldozes me on every boundary and I give in rather than standing up for myself.

Still no consequences for his actions really. It's like he's back in normal land, getting off Scott free, and I hate him for it.

Hugs to you all xo

Gotcha,

The consequences for him will follow when you tell him NO MORE and you SHOW him with your actions that you mean it.

The way that you show him is you make him leave the house. You do not share a bed with him. You do not pretend to be a happy couple/family in front of relatives and then expect that he is going to take any boundaries you talk about seriously at all. He knows if he bullies you, you will submit.

What is the status of his CSAT appointment?

[This message edited by somer222 at 6:48 PM, August 12th (Tuesday)]

Gotcha- the visit from family came at a bad time, you did your best as a recent trauma victim, to get through it in the most enjoyable way for everyone. Now that the reunion is over, it's time to clearly state your needs and boundaries to WH , and the CONSEQUENCES to him if he is not respectful of your wishes (I am referring to sleeping arrangements as you described in your post). Your WH was disrespectful of you when he engaged in sex acts w/ strippers/ prostitutes. The disrespect needs to end now. If you are uncomfortable with WH in the same bed, demand that he oblige you. Tell him his choice at this time is the guest room or leave. The danger is that you will continue to feel "bulldozed", disrespected, and "mad at yourself". This is unhealthy. And, it's not who you should be mad at. It is promising that you've chosen to get IC. This tells me you value yourself and you are strong. You will get stronger, healthier, and eventually heal. Can I ask though...what is WH doing for himself at this time?

I misunderstood his reschedule of CSAT appointment to be same day as mine, but it really is on the 22nd. So we will see if he keeps it. He's already complaining about the cost (which in reality isn't even remotely as expensive as I thought it would be).

Other than that, he is not really doing anything for himself. In terms of bettering himself. He is only serving himself though, and in his mind he thinks "I don't get it! I'm not cheating on her, how can she say I'm not doing anything to gain her trust!"

It is so frustrating how completely different our realities are. He has admitted yesterday though that he is such a needy individual that he has to or needs to meet these needs in his mind to remain even keel that he sometimes can't give me what I need to heal (those were his words). Hopefully therapy will help him.

I need to practice what I will say to him because when we get in a verbal tit for tat, I get frustrated on how he manipulated the conversation and just shut down.

Gotcha- two thoughts for you this morning:

First, the cost of IC for him? As much as he is dodging reality and truth about what has happened, remind him that you feel that your broken relationship is worth the investment of time, work, and money. Time for him to show you how valuable HE thinks it is. How much $$$ was squandered on sex workers? How much did he pay the public rent-a-girlfriends? I don't believe they were free. Does he think divorce would be cheaper?

Also: communicating with my WH in the early days was, as you are experiencing, insufferably frustrating. I would guess there to be ingrained and very well practiced manipulative tools that he uses to avoid focusing on what you want. I used to lose the semantic battles all the time. Later, when I was alone, it would be clear that we ended up arguing...and it was not even on the topic that I originally brought up. This is where your IC and posting your thoughts here will be your salvation. You do need to 'practice'. Practice not allowing him to dodge and weave away from a specific topic. Practice not accepting the "oh wow, poor me" excuse. Practice not accepting the "well yeah, but you did ____" blame shifting his way out of it. You will get better at it. I have. It's a long established pattern after all.

Gotcha,

The relationship is broken because he is broken. He is not respectful of your boundaries, he is showing no signs of any true remorse and he continues to put himself first. It is as if you do not even matter.

These behaviors and his narcissism are very deeply ingrained into his personality. That is what makes dealing with this such an incredible challenge.

You need to assert your non-negotiables with him and tell him what the consequences will be if he breaks any of them. If he tries to change the subject or bullies you, write him a letter, hand it to him, tell him to read it, tell him it is not open for discussion and walk away. Be very firm. You cannot afford to pussy-foot around with him.

List your non-negotiables, the bottom line requirements you have for him:

1. CSAT meeting and on-going treatment - you verify this with CSAT

2. SAA with a sponsor - you verify

3. Total transparency in everything

4. You handle the finances

5. He sleeps in the guest room until he is in recovery and is not acting out

6. STD testing - full panel - you see the results

He is not the only one who matters here. You have a life, too, and this is no way to live it. It will destroy your soul, your health and what is left of the rest of your life if you don't take action now, I'm very afraid for you that this is going to continue on with him bullying you into submitting to his will, and I think you know, as we all do, that this problem of his isn't going to get better on its own. It can and often does get much worse.

You do need to be prepared to take action on your consequences, Gotcha. Keep going to your IC and keep posting.

(((Gotcha)))

I really like the list you made. I'm already fully in charge of finances so that won't be hard for him. He already knows the no cash rule from now on it.

When I tell him he needs to sleep in the guest bedroom, he will say he is not and he is only sleeping in his bed... that's the current status of the only boundary I've tried to set.

This morning he had the audacity to get mad at me for him not having a clean shirt for work! HAHA wow. Slowly trying to go back to our old routine.

He will without a doubt fight me on SAA, I don't think he will have the guts to show his face to others in a meeting. At this point, he doesn't have it in him. So where does that put me? I don't know. He said himself that he won't move out anymore, I'd have to move out myself.

Have a chat with my therapist this afternoon to discuss.

Gotcha,

What you are describing is emotionally abusive and if you do have the funds and flexibility, I suggest moving out so you can get away from this man. He may come around, be remorseful and want to move forward but right now he is using you, bullying you and hurting you. You don't have to leave forever--but right now, how could this be anything other than toxic?

Not okay at all. He's already taken so much from you but now he won't allow you the space you need to heal? I could throttle him for you. He's trying to intimidate you into being passive and a victim and settling for whatever crap he hands you. Big hugs.