SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

holy shit, Graywolf.

That was one of the best posts I have ever read on this board. Good job. You batted 1000 on that.

I have thought the same thing time and again but couldn't articulate it that way.

I would add that it's obvious in some of these cases that they (the cheating wives since we are discussing it from a male standpoint) would even take such a risk to begin with ? Why they would think this is ok ?

SG's wife paid the ultimate consequence. TTA's is getting by with it at this point but I feel deep down inside knows how badly she crewed up.

If they want this lifestyle, leave the marriage or never get married in the first place and stop hurting the people you are supposed to love !!

Again, great post Graywolf

Oh Western, don't think it's just the BH's that are going through this. It's the same for all BSs. We all want to know why they would risk it and then turn around and say they want to stay in the M? Then why do it in the first place? There are other options.

In the case it's with a CoW then that's a double whammy because they not only risk their M but their job too. Why would they risk everything?! How was the AP worth that much? That's the hard questions, That we're all trying to work out for ourselves.

The ONLY reason they walk the straight and narrow after D day is the threat of consequences. If they break parole they will go to jail.

For TTA and all the rest of the BSs on here, this had better not be true for their WSs. If it is only the threat of getting caught that is supposed to stop someone, a first year criminal justice student can tell you that it isn't going to work. This fear just isn't enough. Have you ever seen the recidivism rate of the criminal justice system?

The waywards that don't cheat again fundamentally reorder their notions of entitlement, selfishness, and desire. The sensation of being drawn towards someone (either their spouse or the AP) is FAR more powerful than the repulsive effect of fear associated with the forbidden.

The ones that white knuckle it, wanting to cheat but being held back by fear? Pffft. They probably don't make it a month, never mind a lifetime.

[This message edited by Western at 5:01 PM, February 7th (Sunday)]

Isolatedleo,

I agree. This isn't a gender thing. Its a general trend but nothing that applies to all. But I agree with you 100%. What are cheaters thinking ??

The point is whether it's physical or emotional, it all sucks.

To some, one is worse than the other. Regardless of which one it is. None of us asked for it.

Cheating is cheating.

But I still stand by what Garywolf said. It was spot on !!

[This message edited by Western at 5:12 PM, February 7th (Sunday)]

No offense intended. Just clarifying. Didn't want you "guys" thinking you had your own corner of the market.

I agree. It sucks no matter what the situation and we all have to wade through the crap that we've been dealt.

I agree. If it came across the wrong way, my apologies.

It all sucks. That's why we're here.

Why are there cheaters to start with ????

I hate this stuff. I really do. Man or woman.. it doesn't matter.

Thanks for agreeing with me as I agree with you, Isolated. I thought and still do that Graywolf's comments are on spot considering the norm. However, there is no 'one size fits all' but there is a trend among waywards.

And no, there's no corner on the market. I wish there was no 'market' to begin with

Look,no cheating is ok. Period !!

[This message edited by Western at 5:19 PM, February 7th (Sunday)]

Oh I definitely agree with you on that. My posts were meant lightly on a heavy subject. I never took any offense to what you said. Just throwing it out that it's gender neutral and giving you a little crap (for lack of a better way to say it) for adding gender in there.

What a week end!!! Took the advice and did go to Super Bowl party as planned. For anyone who gives a shit, I was happy Broncos won because Peyton is class act. One of the friends who knew was there with her husband. Had a little excitement with that, but overall it was a decent night. And yes, we did sleep in same bed this week end.

My wife will be calling this morning to set up a polygraph date. She wants this done as soon as our schedules can get a few days before and after without too much distraction. I can't imagine why she would be so anxious to do this if it was going to uncover a lot of TT and/or lies, and I know there will be some of you who will be thinking this is just a ruse on her part to fool me. I do not think so.

My BIGGEST question mark right now is if this was her first and only OM. I am convinced as anyone can be there has been no breaking of NC but that will be determined also.

KIMICHI

Yeah, I was confused myself reading that again . :) The sentence got too long.

What I meant was..

Switch places with her and imagine that you were the one that had the affair. Say, you had an affair with a younger co-worker when out of town and she caught you like you caught her. In this imaginary situation, repeat the current scenario with switched characters.

What kind of guy do you have to be to have such an affair ? What must you feel about her to do this to her ? If you loved her, would you do this her ?

Makes sense ?

We are getting in to hypotheticals here. I did not have an affair with a younger co worker, and she has maintained from any past conversations and since d Day that it would not be a deal breaker for her. now how do I know if that is reality if it has not happened???? i am done SPECULATING here and am dealing in the real world. Does ANY WS who does this have justification ? so the questions about what kind of person does this is simple to answer. It is a person who makes some really bad choices but does not mean they are not salvagable if it is not a recurring thing. Just my opinion.

I understand that you feel I should have divorced her already and that is fine. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, and i think it does help to get the varied opinions. if i am wrong and my wife restarts this affair to be with him and el;ope with her "soulmate" as you put it, I will write you a congratulatory post that you were right.

JDUFF

Broncos or the Panthers?

Don't forget to relax and have some fun today. Get to a superbowl party somewhere.

Thank you for the excellent suggestion. Took your advice as indicated above.

WALLOPED

Since me and my wife were brought up, Kimichi is not wrong, but it's more complicated than that. I think a hybrid approach is warranted. You can't fully discount the initial reaction, but what has happened since is vastly more important. So, it should inform and be weighed against subsequent actions. Plus, you have to keep in mind you may still not be getting the whole truth. It's a hard thing to do, especially since we want to believe (cue Fox Mulder).

So, TTA, you are likely not sharing with us every sentence or gesture and interaction you are having with your wife (smart!). So only you can gauge her behavior and the things she is doing that make you comfortable she's being honest now and focused on you and your M. In the end, you have to be comfortable. The key is actions and deeds, not words. I think you're in a good spot (how bizarre that we can call this a "good spot") and are on the right track.

Thanks Walloped. As usual, pretty accurate. She is doing what she can but knows I have no way to believe it all until she proves it, and there is pretty much only one way to do that. I have seen no evidence of any breaking of NC.

RAMBLER

Keep in mind, OM is not viable and she knows it.

He is 2000 miles away. If he leaves his wife he needs to stay close or he loses his access to his kid as the court will not allow them to leave state.

So the WW will have to give up her job, family and home to be with him.

She is aware he is 10 years younger and he is a cheater. It will be only a matter of time before she too is dumped for the next conquest.

She knows deep down she is only a booty call for him.

Quite accurate. She has no intention of giving up her job to try to be with him, nor does he. i'd call it a mutual booty call. I am not letting her off the hook and making like he was the total predator here. That is why I totally reject this soul mate crap. They fucked when it was convenient, that is it, and until proven different I am accepting that is what it was. Now I still need more discussion of the why and all that stuff i guess but it is what it is and NOT some Romeo and Juliet love affair.

GREYWOLF

It sounds to me like nothing more than an affair of convenience. She had pretty boy coming on to her... The endorphins kicked in, she felt the rush and liked it. Not just her... Anyone will feel this. It is what they do after that separates us all.

MindBlown

She had no interest in any future with this guy at all. if you met my wife and talked to her you would not think she was ready to run off with some guy with three young children. She tells everyone how glad she is that she is done with all the school activities and the child rearing.

Timetoact

I agree with both the above. As clearly illustrated in SpaceGhost’s thread women tend to be more upset by their spouse having an EA than a PA while men are the reverse. ShaceGhost’s wife felt that she was being faithful in the way that mattered most. When confronted she avoided the subject of sex and said: “You’re the only one I’ve ever loved.” She planned no future with her OM and never told him that she loved him.

The point is that these women were projecting and assuming that their husband’s priorities were the same as theirs. They thought they were working with a safety net in that if caught their husband would think like them. They knew that their husband would be upset but when push came to shove how could anyone end a long and happy marriage over something as insignificant as sex?

That’s why OP’s wife had the balls to ask for the sex to continue. To her it was a reasonable request because it was only sex and the relationship was never in danger.

The ONLY reason they walk the straight and narrow after D day is the threat of consequences. If they break parole they will go to jail.

They feel bad because the discovery of the sex hurt their husband but they have little or no intrinsic guilt for the sex itself. If the affair was never discovered they would be congratulating themselves for making such a wise decision for some innocent fun.

You can’t count on them to become disgusted with their behavior. The only deterrent is the threat of discovery and divorce.

Get the poly and ask yourself if the constant checking up on her is worth it.

"Is the juice worth the squeeze."

[This message edited by Graywolf at 1:11 PM, February 7th (S

As Western said, very spot on in my opinion also. And yes, regardless of if the poly result was positive, I do have to decide eventually if it is worth it. All of us are faced with that one to answer i think.

I apologize as this is getting a little long winded, but as Walloped said I have not posted EVERY detail of EVERY conversation. My wife is a Type A competitive person who has to win at anything she does. We both have been in competitive athletics in college and when this guy showed an interest, I think part of her decided to accept the challenge and WIN. Unfortunately, that meant them having sex.

She LIKED the power she had over this hunky guy as much as the sex. i believe that because I have read women have emotional reasons for affairs more than sex. i think she really got off that she had this guy when a lot of the other women would have gladly changed places with her if they knew what was going on. i think it is not totally uncommon for a woman to enjoy using her sexuality for a power trip. i have seen shit on TV and read that women who are stippers and hookers sometimes feel the same thing.

Enough of the shrink analysis on my part. i am not qualified. She leaves tomorrow night for two nights, and I leave Thursday morning for one night. So we will not have much time together this week.

Right now, I wish we did not have to travel for a few more weeks until this poly thing gets done, but I really have no anxiety that she is going to fly off tomorrow and hook up at her hotel with some guy she meets.

no problem Isolatedleo, I am used to taking crap

hell, I don't even know why I was being so serious though Graywolf's post struck a chord with me

I am very pleased that Timetoact is following through with the poly. Maybe he'll gain some closure from it

[This message edited by Western at 10:47 AM, February 8th (Monday)]

We are getting in to hypotheticals here. I did not have an affair with a younger co worker, and she has maintained from any past conversations and since d Day that it would not be a deal breaker for her. now how do I know if that is reality if it has not happened???? i am done SPECULATING here and am dealing in the real world. Does ANY WS who does this have justification ? so the questions about what kind of person does this is simple to answer. It is a person who makes some really bad choices but does not mean they are not salvagable if it is not a recurring thing. Just my opinion.

Not sure how you came up with that he was ready to leave his wife. That never came up in any communication I saw between them. or some unknown reason you have concluded that my wife thought a guy she banged six times over six months without seeing him regularly was her "soulmate". She came clean just like most other waywards do, when she was caught. Is that tremendously unusual?????? not from what I read here.

You question does not anger me but if there is one thing I have no fear of, it is that even if we got divorced that my wife would have any desire to take off with some guy with three children that young. She makes enough money to do that if she wanted to. he has no interest in that. He is trying like hell to save his ass.

I understand that you feel I should have divorced her already and that is fine. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, and i think it does help to get the varied opinions. if i am wrong and my wife restarts this affair to be with him and el;ope with her "soulmate" as you put it, I will write you a congratulatory post that you were right.

Look, I don't get paid for this stuff. It is fine if you do not agree with my view of things but when you twist the meaning into something that wasn't my intention, it gets annoying and tiring. Now I have to repeat everything twice and in even more detail.

Whether you divorce her or not is upto you. I said that in the last post too. I was arguing that you ground your expectations in the reality of the person that your wife is. Which is to say, you accept this flawed version of your wife instead of assuming that her affair was an aberration and the flaws never existed. To some guys, these flaws might be deal breakers and they may choose to divorce, for some they are not. No judgement there.

and she has maintained from any past conversations and since d Day that it would not be a deal breaker for her.

Actually you should be worried that she said this. This is usually a very bad sign

Does ANY WS who does this have justification ? so the questions about what kind of person does this is simple to answer. It is a person who makes some really bad choices but does not mean they are not salvagable if it is not a recurring thing. Just my opinion.

My point exactly. Some are salvageable, some are not. But how would you know if you bullrush into R.

Not sure how you came up with that he was ready to leave his wife. That never came up in any communication I saw between them. or some unknown reason you have concluded that my wife thought a guy she banged six times over six months without seeing him regularly was her "soulmate".

You are trying to damage control instead of answering the question. Did you actually ask her this ?

If logic was all that was needed to make sense, why would your partner of 20 years betray you in the first place ? Unless you two were in open relationships before, why would she ask to see him on the side even after you found out ? And even if you had agreed, she(and OM) would still be hiding it from his wife. Just think about what that means.

Quite accurate. She has no intention of giving up her job to try to be with him, nor does he. i'd call it a mutual booty call. I am not letting her off the hook and making like he was the total predator here. That is why I totally reject this soul mate crap. They fucked when it was convenient, that is it, and until proven different I am accepting that is what it was. Now I still need more discussion of the why and all that stuff i guess but it is what it is and NOT some Romeo and Juliet love affair.

So logistics make you the default choice. Some confidence you have there, both in yourself and your wife. You think she wouldn't leave you because it would be too "troublesome". This is also the same reason you do not want to answer the "What if the OM wants to leave his wife for yours". Maybe this was also the reason she could get away with asking you for an open marriage.

[This message edited by kimichi at 12:52 PM, February 8th (Monday)]

I feel like this thread is getting to be somewhat of a train wreck that I can't help reading.

TTA clearly isn't into hypotheticals. "what if OM wanted your wife to leave" is not a realistic question. It's almost like saying "what if Haile Barry wanted to marry your SO?" Heck I'd have a hard time turning her down. But, it's not likely going to happen, so why devote any head space to it?

TTA, you have my admiration. I would have long ago abandoned this ship if I were in your shoes.

I feel like this thread is getting to be somewhat of a train wreck that I can't help reading.

TTA clearly isn't into hypotheticals. "what if OM wanted your wife to leave" is not a realistic question. It's almost like saying "what if Haile Barry wanted to marry your SO?" Heck I'd have a hard time turning her down. But, it's not likely going to happen, so why devote any head space to it?

TTA, you have my admiration. I would have long ago abandoned this ship if I were in your shoes.

NOMOREGAMES

Thanks. Not sure about train wreck, but you are correct. I have absolutely no interest in creating situations that do not exist to project what I would do. I am more interested in what I will do with what I know has happened, which is enough to worry about.

To be honest, I had to chuckle at the suggestion that I have "bull rushed" into R. What does that mean????

If you do not divorce immediately, you are either in some form of R or attempted R or limbo. I would say limbo if I was still trying to discover something from red flags.

Right now, I have not committed to anything but giving my wife the opportunity to show me she wants to stay married and to prove via the only way I can think of if she has and is telling me the truth. Seems fairly logical to more, more logical that trying to create situations and put things into her mind that she has not expressed.

So I guess is this is called "bull rushing into R, I plead guilty.

Unless my wife has lost her comprehension for the English language, she is fully aware and fully informed that if a polygraph test tells me that she has had other affairs or that she is still in contact with OM that I am prepared to hand her papers in very short order. I have not hid that little detail.

I keep reading about how the Space Ghost thread is the model to follow or be admired. I just rerad the beginnings of it, and while he is to really be admired for his firm moral boundaries, he had been cheated on for five or six months ignoring some pretty obvious red flags like his wife being 200 miles away in a hotel, strange lingerie in the house, and his wife shaving herself for months before he even hired a PI. Then he took another month of letting it go on before he lowered the boom. All that before he wrote a word here. My point is even the "heroes" of SI I guess would have been "bull rushing " to R by allowing it to go on for all that time. Maybe I should have waited to post until after I had the poly results like he did and I might not be considered to be too forgiving.

NoMoreGames, anyway, I appreciate your support, and that of everyone. I have no left the thread because I am getting some very good advice from some folks and I truly am grateful. Even the disparaging things are OK. They make me think even if I do not pay much attention as far as action or thought is concerned.

I am still pissed off as hell. I am taking some meds to keep my head straight because I still have a pretty hard fucking career to manage. But I am not rolling on the floor with despair, and maybe some are bothered with that.

I love my wife, but I will survive emotionally and financially, and socially if the worst happens. I have no doubt I could find a woman if I wanted one. I know I would not have a hard time with that. My kids are adults.

My wife is not expressing love for OM, and she could do it in a heartbeat and survive just fine if she wanted to or he did. I am trying to play my cards close to vest and thinking as straight as possible. If she passes the test, then I guess the work really begins.

[This message edited by Timetoact at 8:46 PM, February 8th (Monday)]

Anything else about toxic friend(s)?

Anything else about toxic friend(s)?

Anything else about toxic friend(s)?

WK55

There are right now three of her friends that I have been told know. She apparantly told then when the four of them were out at a GNO having drinks and they all got boozed up and the conversation turned to guys and sex.

Two of these women apparantly blasted her and told her they did not want to know anymore or be involved, which would explained why they and their husbands may have not been seeing much of us socially. They are not great close friends of mine, but we did socialize with them. I guess I also have to assume that the husbands know.

Last night at Super Bowl party, this woman approached me and said she was sorry and that she hoped we worked it out.

Very short interaction which my wife saw from a distance across the room. So I do know she has told them she has been caught.

The one who I would classify as "toxic" is a divorced friend who fucks anything that moves, and thinks it is all OK, married guy or single guy. Cheated on a few husbands. Never actually "covered" for my wife, but I am sure was telling her she deserved the "fun". I don't think she had any part in this affair starting, and she never had any interaction with me. I'd call her more TOXIC if she actually covered as an alibi. My guess is she did what a ton of "girlfriends" do. Probably wanted to hear all the juicy details. My wife has been a lot of places with her and did not cheat ( or at this point I believe she did not cheat), so I guess this person would still be called toxic. PROBABLY HAS TO GO!!

But in answer to your question, I have not taken any real action on either of these situations. The reason is as follows

(1) I believe there is no more affair going on right now so nothing to encourage or approve of. I am sure she is telling my wife that I will get over it and encouraging her to "hang in there" .I really don't give a shit about that now. If my wife is not paying attention to me at this point, we have no future.

(2) if my wife fails the polygraph why the fuck do I care who she is friends with???????

She was supposed to go on "girls " week end with the idiot, but my wife backed out of that on her own without any prodding from me, so this friend is not something I am agonizing about immediately. When and if this test is passed, that is part of the expectations I need to insist on.

Hope that answers your question

[This message edited by Timetoact at 10:44 PM, February 8th (Monday)]

Timetoact

I too want to congratulate you on how well you seem to be navigating this nightmare called infidelity. I have been following your thread and very much admire your handling of your situation so far.

When people kept urging you to insist on your wife quitting her job I’m glad you held your ground and I found your response to them compelling. You had analyzed the situation, weighed the pros and cons and I believe you made a sound decision. This was not a situation where your WW and OM actually worked together other than at that convention. Their job locations could not be much further apart than they are now. Granted they might end up in the same room once a year but my guess is that they will avoid each other like the plague. If your wife quit her job but OM lived within a 25 mile radius of your home I’m thinking there would be a much greater likelihood that they would run into each other than your current situation. I don’t hear too many suggestions that the BS & WS sell their home and move to a distant city if the OM simply lives in their community. I very much agree that a WS and AP should not work together nor be a situation where there was likelihood they would even catch sight of one another with any frequency. I don’t believe your situation even comes close to that.

I must say that I was concerned that this might not have been her first affair given the amount of travel she does. I was relieved when you said that she suggested the polygraph and I realize that you fully intend to see that she does take the polygraph.

Keep up the good work. I think your handling this very well and I wish you and your wife the best and hope in the not-too-distant future you will be moving your thread to R.

[This message edited by 40YOSL at 10:40 PM, February 8th (Monday)]

40YS,

Not sure I have "navigated" anything yet/ Just trying to use some rational and common sense in a situation not disposed to that. Instead of navigating, I'd say I just got in the "lifeboat" and am startling the to row if I could make an analogy.

If there was any way I could figure out to get to the truth without a polygraph I probably would not have rushed right to that.

They say here "trust your gut". I understand your mention of the possibility of other affairs. Right now I share that dread, and when you spend 50-100 nights a year apart from your spouse, opportunity is always there for both of us.

My "gut" tells me she is telling the truth.

The only positive thing here is that the answer should be pretty clear.

Even in 40s, peer pressure, maybe better term is peer influence, has an effect.

I doubted my wife's love of me. She was telling other man she loves him, so yeah. Your situation is a little different, but she did it knowing that possibly you might divorce her, so I think you also must wonder a little just how much she loves you if she was willing to risk it for just casual sex. However you slice it, it sucks.

My point being sometimes I did stuff just to see if my wife loved me, not so much I cared about it. Would she willingly write a no contact letter? I didn't think that would really stop her from cheating, but I wanted to just see if she would. Would she get rid of guy "friends" I never heard on F-book, some on a different continent?

If my wife wouldn't do what I requested, I never told her one way or the other I would divorce her over it, but you know what, I would have divorced her in a minute. Absolutely I would have, I think I was looking for a reason. You have to follow your own path, but I figured why should I be bothered by something, even if it was trivial, when she blew up our relationship with this? Let her deal with it, I will not, if she loves me she will, and if she won't, then so be it.

A lot depends on poly, most importantly if she's done it before. Not much else you can do until then but wait and try to chill as much as you can.

Wow! I have read the entire thread and have followed this thread for a while.

It has become unnecessarily complicated.

It really is quite simple.

TTA's wife likes to fvck young, fit, attractive men. Moreover, she wants to fvck these men. Also, she is competitive and enjoys this type of "challenge". She is agreeing to not do what she likes and wants to do because she doesn't want TTA to leave her - that would be inconvenient!

The real question is whether TTA wants to remain with a wife who thinks and feels like this? From current updates it appears so!

End of story!