SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi Friend

It is 430 am est. when does ability to sleep return?

I know all about that. I shared regularly on SI about my 3 am fighting dragons. For me it worked out rather well. With the time difference it meant that I could actually engage in some sort of real time interaction that I sometimes envied seeing other posters doing.

How long doew it last? Mine lasted several months after me making my decision to D. Where I had thought that my D decision would be the end point of it all. It was not. The pain lifted fast, and I almost instantly found my balls again, but the realisation of all the new challenges began to dawn. I decided to turn the 3 am sessions into something positive rather than the tormented tossing I had been experiencing them as. Used that time to make plans and find solutions to the problems. Getting the kids annual school calendar, plotting out the events and activities and getting into my diary the times when business travel would have to be avoided. Going on line, sourcing parts for the sleeper car project that the kids and I were working on. To be honest, now that my sleep pattern has returned to almost normal, I struggle a little in that I get less done.

Try and find away to turn it into a positive, rather than resisting it. Life does get better, and a little more normal. I give you that guarantee.

I know that for a long time the only place that I felt secure to post was in JFO. Resisted when someone suggested that I think of joining the crew in D/S but once I stopped by there, I found a crew of folk who are warm and supportive.

We support on the down days, and yes there are still those. We celebrate each victory as if it were our own. It strengthens our resolve. We draw on our experiences to offer pertinent advice, but best of all, somehow, this awful shared experience of ours has developed in us a quite astounding sense of humour, and the thing we seem to do most is laugh together. Pop across when you feel strong enough to.

Your old lady needs to know exactly what you want...stay in contact with OM....move out....and sign off on the divorce papers.

If your old lady has to even ask that phucked up question then she is no were near working on the aspects of co parenting..

Find you support network and focus on protecting the kids.

For now she has lost her parenting skills and it will take a village to bring that back. You will never be able to bring WW back until everyone is on board in intervening on what's best for the kids.

The sooner you turn this into a business the better you will come out a head.

Ya it suck you have to deal with your kids as a business arrangement...but your trick of an old lady has brought this on.

In time she will be someone else's problem. And you can then have a health relationship. You will get through this.....we all do!

2018

I’ve shared this here in other threads before: A collection of requirements (found here on SI) for even trying reconciliation.

Only a truly Remorseful WW Is worth even attempting R with. So far yours is showing no remorse so keep moving forward with the D. It is your best path to either get away from your cheating wife and her infidelity or get her to wake up and realized how she has hurt the person she vowed to love honor and cherish the rest of her life.

Share some or all of this list if you want with her (without revealing SI as your safe space) and show her what it’s going to take to Even attempt to repair a marriage broken by infidelity.

I hope this helps. As always here, take what you need and disregard the rest.

Conditions to consider Reconciliation

1) Together we write a No Contact letter that we send to your new boyfriend. No signs of affection toward him will be relayed at all. It will Be matter of fact and remove him from your life forever.

2) NO CONTACT. Meaning you quit your job and find another so you can never see him or run into him again. Real ghosting. Blocking him from everything. If He tries to contact you then you do not respond and you tell me. If he persists our lawyer will send him a cease and desist.

3) You write out a full timeline of your Affair. Every little detail. Each day you communicated, what was said, even if you were inappropriate and raunchy. The days you were alone together, the physically touching. What you touched, what he touched, how long, and what you said to each other. All sex acts are described. Every single thing. I need to know the truth before I can try and reconcile from it. We will sit together and review it and you’ll openly answer questions about it. You know the truth, I need to know it as well as you do if we are going to have a chance to save this marriage.

4) You'll write me a letter of apology explaining why you think you did what you did and what it would mean to you to have me stay and work on the marriage. It should include how you think you made me feel during all this time.

5) Once we have reviewed the timeline and letter you will agree to a polygraph to confirm you have told me the truth.

6) We will both do Individual Counseling. You to figure out why you were willing and able to go beyond our marriage vows. And me to work thru the pain you have caused me.

7) At a later point we will start Marriage Counseling to work on what was missing from the Marriage. But only after we both work on ourselves first.

8) Expose. The true nature of the affair will be exposed to both our families and appropriate close friends. They need to be able to help us make it thru this Reconciliation. Doing this alone with just the two of us and no one else knowing is doomed for failure. If you are truly Remorseful you will be the one to admit what you have done. I will be there to let them know that even though they are probably mad at you for what you have done but I ask that they support you as a couple while you are trying to work through this painful time in your marriage.

9) If your boyfriend has a wife or Girlfriend you will help me contact this spouse. You will not warn him about this as that would be breaking No Contact and if you do we are through.

10) Intimacy will be on my terms. Whatever I need to heal in whatever fashion you deem necessary. You cannot be forced to do anything you don’t want to, however, I have the right to decide if denying me the intimacy I need is a deal breaker for me.

11) We will look into implementing a postnup that ensures my financial security and terms of parenting if you ever cheat again.

12) You will provide open access to all your technology from now on. On demand. No time to delete stuff. I will agree to do the same. If you dont then I assume you are obviously more interested in having secrets than continuing your Marriage.

13) No more going out without each other unless otherwise approved. Confirming your whereabouts and who you are with will be required as needed.

14) No more meeting alone with a man. No lunches, dinners, drinks whatever. Social Happy Hours (outside of actual work functions) are to be attended together or not attended at all.

15) We both will do reading on infidelity and we will use them to discuss our marriage. This includes materials such as "Not just friends" and "how to help your spouse heal from your affair”

16) STD testing for both of us with Visual proof of the results is required.

17) No new affairs. If so D papers will be served immediately. No lies about relationships with others any more. If so we are done.

18) Any questions about the affair are to be answered honestly for the rest of our lives together.

19) No conversations about our marriage or any other marriage with another man/woman unless we discuss it first and I confirm that it’s ok to talk to that specific person about it.

20) No one comes in to our home without both us knowing.

21) Communication- No secrets, no matter how hard it will be to hear. Discuss all attractions. Discuss all third party attention. Discuss all feelings good and bad. Be honest with yourself and aware of your feelings, then communicate that to your spouse.

22) We don't do anything in absence of one another that we wouldn't do in the others presence.

23) we work to show each other moments of tenderness, acts of passion, the creation of new memories, all thru time spent together.

24) You drop any friends or family members that encouraged or helped you hide the affair. Complete NC with them.

25) Ownership of your actions during your affair and no more blameshifting or excuses for your actions.

26) I need to be treated better than your boyfriend. Whatever you did for him you will have to go further for me. We together will discuss what that means.

Today is DDay +3. Should she be over the initial shock so that there can be a coherent conversation?

Thanks for the recents posts of support

Stevens, I’m going to be repeatedly be reading yours today

Today is DDay +3. Should she be over the initial shock so that there can be a coherent conversation?

I told XWW about my decision to D on a Friday night. It was only by the next Wednesday evening that she was no longer a raving, hotel room smashing, drunk. But that was only with the constant support of 2 of her closest friends spending every minute with her and slowly leading her through the initial stages of her process. That then morphed into being a bar flirt every evening until it got so bad, her employer was calling me to share that they were concerned about her behaviour and being drunk at work. It took intensive IC and more constant support from the best friends to get her to any sort of normal.

As I said in my earlier post. The challenges keep coming thick and fast for a while. Difference is, this time you are driving the bus instead of having your life dictated to you by a stranger and a WW.

Stay strong

Today is DDay +3. Should she be over the initial shock so that there can be a coherent conversation?

She should certainly be able to have an honest conversation. But, as has been demonstrated on SI over and over again, honesty seems to be a toxic poison to cheaters. They lie in the face of facts and proof. They tell half truths hoping that you will accept that half is as good as the whole truth. They have been lying to their BS and to themselves for so long that lying is like breathing to most of them.

You have such clear evidence, I am not sure how she can lie in the face of what is so obvious. But, WS's never cease to amaze at the degree they will go to avoid consequences of their choices. I am sorry for your grief and trauma. Each of us live a little of it with you having gone through the same exact terrible betrayals.

Stevensn offers sound advice. I would only offer that, in my view, the following is the most critical at the earliest stage:

Any questions about the affair are to be answered honestly for the rest of our lives together.

Until she can do this with 100% honesty and gut wrenching ownership of every lie and betrayal, none of anything else matters.

Try melatonin. My sleep has always been a mess.

You have such clear evidence, I am not sure how she can lie in the face of what is so obvious. But, WS's never cease to amaze at the degree they will go to avoid consequences of their choices.

DIFM

You have to understand. They were never going to face any consequences. That’s why affairs are so fun.

2018MLMM, it might help you deal with your wife by understanding what she’s thinking and the situation she put herself in. She is in shock just like you because her world has turned upside down.

Please understand. I’m not defending her in any way. You can deal with something better if you understand it.

It sounds as if you had a long term stable marriage. You were a good husband and she was happy with the security you provided her. My guess she had no plans for a future with the OM especially considering his age.

She never dreamed she would get caught. In fact you caught her by accident. It was kind of a miracle. Plus the proof was so good that it broke through the safety net she had.

She had multiple backup systems in place:

1. She was very careful

2. You trusted her so much that you would never even look

3. You wouldn’t notice or blow off any red flags

4. If caught she could minimize and talk her way out of it

5. Deny, deny, deny

6. If caught dead to rights you would be mad but would never divorce her because you love her and she knows how to handle you.

She was having the best time of her life with two men supplying her needs. You for security and stability and the OM for fun.

Then out of nowhere a nuke went off. Talk about shock. Now the OM is gone and she’s realizing that she can lose you. Her kids hate her. She can’t sleep.

She will do and say anything to salvage what she can.

EDIT: Why does anyone take photos or videos on vacation or at an event? They take them to commemorate or relive the event. You never take and keep photos of things you’re ashamed of.

[This message edited by Michigan at 3:00 AM, March 27th (Tuesday)]

very good points by Michigan

It could be dday+300, if she isn't ready to be honest and transparent there is no value or point in having any conversation.

You have enough evidence that you know full well what went on and that this isn't a misunderstanding. As long as she is sticking to that just walk away and tell her that you don't have any I Teresa in story time, your too busy putting your life back together.

Thank you

There's no point in trying to have a coherent conversation with a liar. You'll only get more lies. I learned that the hard way. Stop trying to do it. Go on with putting *your* life back together. Hugs to you, you're doing well.

Today is DDay +3. Should she be over the initial shock so that there can be a coherent conversation?

Do you want a conversation? What do you want it to be about from your viewpoint? What are you hoping she will say? Have you been able to maintain your composure in the other two contacts you had with her?

MLMM sounds like you are sharing a bed with your WW? If you are she needs to sleep somewhere else. The couch? The guest bedroom? Doesn’t matter as long as it isn’t with you.

My Ex was never ready to have honest discussions about his affairs. You can try to talk to her but make sure you know what you want to know and walk away if she starts lying or blaming you.

Since DDay, she has either slept at sister’s or in son’s room. Without my knowledge, kids moved her dresser, clothes, makeup, and crap into his room.

I’m staying very calm and indifferent to her.

Well, I may have said ONE bad thing to her tonight. I was cooking dinner and I threw the dumbest kitchen thing that she probably bought at P—- Chef party. She came into the kitchen and the first thing she said to me today was to ask why I threw it out. I may have responded that I’m throwing a lot of useless things away. Oops, my bad

She told me that she is planning on going to work tomorrow. I would love to be a fly on the wall

But seriously, do you see why I’m worried that I’m changing into a jerk by this???? Yes, a counselor is in the picture for me as well as my daughter. Still looking for one out near son’s college.

Currently sitting at kitchen table drinking cup of herbal tea designed to promote sleep, and about to take a melatonin.

Thanks for the suggestions

[This message edited by 2018MLMM at 7:06 PM, March 26th (Monday)]

You are smart to look into counseling but I think you’ll be fine. Just that you know you should look for a counselor means you’re aware and if you’re aware you’re OK.