SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

My BH makes me feel desired every single day, not just 5 minutes before sex.

Thank you!!! I feel....I said I FEEL this is very much underestimated by men as being very important. One of the biggest mood killers for me has been that WH would only touch me, rub my back, caress me etc when HE wanted sex. I told him that if he couldn't show me affection without the expectation of getting laid then I was done with the marriage. Show me you love me, desire me, every single day and I will guarantee I'll be more than willing to take it all the way.

Show me attention five minutes before you want to fuck me and all I am is a fucking prostitute or no different than your OW's who you got in, got off, got out with.

Again communication is what fixed that for us.

Can a person just have validation that, whether it happens or not aside, yes it is reasonable to expect from your WS whatever they did or gave to the OP. An end it at that.

I can see how it is reasonable, yes. I think the reason it’s a debate—sexual aspects or otherwise—is because I can’t think of any other social relationship besides that of an H and W staying together after infidelity in which a person would be expected to always want to enthusiastically do exactly the same things with two different people in a prior vs current social relationship. And this is beyond sex, as I said. To use the example of the car show: I dated a guy between my divorce from my husband and my remarriage to him. We actually did go to a few car shows and car-related things, because that was his thing. I wouldn’t do it again, and my husband wouldn’t expect me to, even if it was HIS thing too. No infidelity with that guy. But when infidelity enters the equation, it all changes—and I wonder how many BSs make that clear to the WS at the outset, that all this is a permanent condition of reconciliation?

And speaking specifically to sex, I think it’s an even greater debate—and divide—because sex is such a different thing than any other thing two people do. I’m going to make a generalization and say that most if not all women would feel VERY differently about coerced or expected sex or sex acts or sexual attitudes (such as the “same enthusiasm”) and so forth than they would about cutting the lawn, or fancy dinners & dancing, or car shows (to name a few examples from this and other threads that apparently attempt to make an analogy). BHs say that the sex thing especially after infidelity is primal and that’s why it’s such a big deal—the feeling of a woman that she “has to” give up sex X number of times, for X reason, do X acts, etc, invokes a primal reaction of another sort.

Ok....for the females...

Let's say that your H cheats on you. You catch him and thru texts and email, you find out that he was giving his OW explosive, mind numbing orgasms by going down on her until she begged him to stop.

You guys reconcile. But he's never done that to you like that. Said it wasn't his thing, and when he did, it was pretty lackluster. You ask him why he won't do that for you the way he did for her.

His reply: Stop trying to make me do things I'm not comfortable doing with you. I mean, isn't it enough that I barbecue for you, and wash your car?

How well would that go over with you?

I had to step away for a while due to some bad triggering from this thread.

GoldenR, what you just wrote is an excellent point. That would be 3000% unacceptable rejection.

Root-thank you down posting. A BH simply wanting the same awesome sex they know the AP got turns into sexual demands, my body my choice, and pseudo rape implications that I absolutely abhor, because none of that isn’t what we are talking about or asking for.

You give me way too much credit. During R I developed a sexual aversion to my husband. This was after I tried to give my BH what he wanted. It wasn't enough and he wasn't happy. He was angry and I shut down. Those were dark....dark days. 4.5 years later we are past that but the scars remain.

...or pay for acting lessons.

Ok this was funny. The ironic part is (for me) acting usually leads to the real thing. It's like smiling when you're in a bad mood. Fake it till you make it kinda thing.

Ok....for the females...

Let's say that your H cheats on you. You catch him and thru texts and email, you find out that he was giving his OW explosive, mind numbing orgasms by going down on her until she begged him to stop.

You guys reconcile. But he's never done that to you like that. Said it wasn't his thing, and when he did, it was pretty lackluster. You ask him why he won't do that for you the way he did for her.

His reply: Stop trying to make me do things I'm not comfortable doing with you. I mean, isn't it enough that I barbecue for you, and wash your car?

How well would that go over with you?

Speaking for myself only:

I knew that had happened with ow2 and for me at least thinking of him doing the same for me was a mood killer, turn off, disgusting. I didn't want to share in any experience/position he had with her period.

For me.my interest and focus was to accept that our marriage had died and to R we needed to accept the loss, grieve and if we both wanted, chose to build a new marriage with a strong foundation. That meant starting from scratch. I want an authentic marriage with my husband. Not the fantasy unicorn fart land crap he shared with his OW's. He did and said things just so he could get into their pants. That wasn't the man I fell in love with. He wasn't the man I knew while he was in his Affairs.

Its taken years, many talks, crying together, laughing together but we have gotten to a point where, most of the time, our sex life is amazing. It also now does include the occasional him going down on me. Not because I demand it, expect it, gave him an ultimatum of go down or get out....But because He wants to please Me. When he kisses me passionately on the lips then kisses me working down my body I know he's doing it because he is enjoying it as much as I am. Its not forced.

I didn't feel the need to compete with the OW's. I didn't have to one up them. That's the difference I see between the genders. I see BH wanting to one up the ap and claim WW as his own again. Primal like Darkness said. The problem with that is when is one upping it enough? When will a BH feel he has his manhood back? In this instance I don't feel a BH will ever truely heal.

I have the same issue. For years all I ever heard from my wife was that I married the wrong woman and that she wasn't that into sex. Then along comes this guy and she acts like a porn star. If we did it once a month we were lucky . With him, she would literally go down to his mothers house 3/4 times a week and do him. This went on for 4 months. All he had to do was text her a smiley face and she went running to do him when ever. Just like ordering a pizza. He never even had to leave the house. Shew dressed to the hilt and most likely did things with him she refuses to do with me. I don't believe anything she says. If you ask her why she was like that, she claims it was new and exciting. When she told me that, I said I am sorry I'm so old and boring. She said stop, you know what I meant. Anyway, I just don't care. I always say that I didn't marry the wrong person, she just isn't that person with me.

Lawdog - it's still that way with you two? Nothing has changed?

anoldlion:

A woman once told me that if someone doesn't like sex then they are doing it wrong or doing it with the wrong person.

I like that. I think for BH's, if like me, the WW was turning me away, I was available and willing, kind and supportive, but she CHOSE to go elsewhere and deny me, her husband.

It wasn't hormones, it was her choice. She found a partner that thrilled her, for whatever reason, and now she thinks we are going back to the occasional obligatory quickie once a month or so?

No, if I'm going to fight this battle, I want, no, I deserve a partner that thrills me too. This is my life too, and it's all too short to play these kind of games again.

If it doesn't work, maybe it's time to move on, because I want a partner, not a roommate.

Most women can not just flick a switch and be passionately turned on just because you demand it. I agree that a WW should do her best to do everything she did with the AP with her BH. However, a BH is not entitled to anything. If after 6 years, her libido has faded a bit due to age and she is still having sex with you - you are actively looking for something to complain about. Just get a divorce if that is not good enough for you.

I am having the best sex I’ve had in my entire marriage. Not because of the affair, but because my WH is no longer selfish and because I no longer settle for less. He bought me lingerie for the first time ever, freely gives me compliments for the first time ever and even with all the affair nastiness, I feel more passionately about him than I have in years. If I rejected all of his advances or made him feel like nothing but an asshole all of the time, I can’t see him being turned on by me.

I understand some Betrayeds don’t want to have to do any work after eating the proverbial shit sandwich, but if you want passion, you kind of have to give a little. Send her a sexy text, do something if you want it in return. Most of all - communicate your needs. Not communicating is what got all of us here in the first place.

a BH is not entitled to anything

Bullshit. A good faithful BS, man or woman, is entitled to better treatment than some scumbag AP, 100%, end of story. If the BS isn’t entitled to being treated the best in the M, the WS isn’t entitled to one iota of what the BS has provided in the marriage either, financial stability, comfort, class, emotional support, etc. but that’s not how divorce works unfortunately.

honestly, this thread is like the hundreds of other ones and devolved in a similar fashion. Just makes me reinforced in my belief that despite how miserable my exWW is now years after I left her, I made the right choice. I moved on, found younger nicer and prettier women to date, and settled on one I love. She treats me right, and wouldn’t pull any of the crap that WWs try to defend against... none of the: it’s different with you, I wasn’t myself, it wasn’t about you, I’m not comfortable with you that way etc etc. load of bullshit IMO. You don’t like that your husband is screwing a prettier woman 10 years your junior now and giving her everything you thought you deserved? Well that’s too bad... shouldn’t have done the same thing to him sexually when he was trying desperately to save the M you pissed on.

My exww didn’t even fall into this camp, but it’s such an outrageous slap to the face that some would deny their husbands sexually what they gave an AP that i feel passionately about it. Makes me have ZERO sympathy for those types of WW, and WH for that matter. Look, if you cheat and then decide you are about to lose the best relationship you ever had, prove it, every way, every how. And yes, I do think that the competitive spirit about sex is more prevalent on BH than BW, but certainly not exclusive.

And for the record, even though I divorced my cheating wife, moved on, and found happiness... she is still woeful, miserable, single, and remorseful. So perhaps the best thing for a WW refusing to meet their husbands a sexual needs isn’t for him to find better... that might just make her situation worse. Maybe if she just understands the concept of male ego tied to her sexuality, and figures out how to act accordingly Tom help her BH not feel like the sexual beta, things will start to resolve themselves.

[This message edited by nicenomore at 11:03 AM, April 3rd (Tuesday)]

Today we were just sitting around her parents big house. Pretty boring but pleasant and relaxing. I wanted to text her, "hey I'm bored let's sneak off and fuck". Really i wanted her to think of it and text me that. I want something i do not have.

Redhorse, I think I would cry with joy if my husband texted me that. I'm sorry you're dealing with this. I know how it feels.

GoldenR

She isn't like she was with him. While she is a little better she is not acting like the porn star she was with him. Of course whenever I say anything I get that she wasn't like that with him.

No matter what, he got the wild side while I got the motherly side.

Most women can not just flick a switch and be passionately turned on just because you demand it.

Except that's exactly what happens with them and their APs.

Lawdog -

Doesn't sound like you're in true R. More like your back to the way things were Pre-A.

This thread has been further eye opener for me. I am more clear about what to do.

My WW is 42. She says her lack of passion for me is not because of me but herself, the realization of what she has done, shame, disgust, etc. She is promising to make it up to me. But whatever she is offering now is not enough for me.

this entire thread is one of the main reasons I am mostly against reconciliation. Whether it's Red Horse, Lawdog or other sad stories, what have you I have 5 thoughts

1) Noone has a right to cheat or have an affair

2) When they do, they should be absolutely grateful if the betrayed spouse takes them back

3) Their show of gratitude should be that they would be willing to do everything they did with the OM and even more for the betrayed spouse, no excuses

4) failure to perform #3 shows a large level of disrespect for the BS and while the betrayed spouse can't and shouldn't force it from the WW/WH, they certainly shouldn't tolerate it either. It's double betrayal

5) If you look over on the R board or look at some of the abuse some of these people went through here, like Lawdog (not to single you out man), then I would rather be single and date around than be married to someone who has such levels of disrespect for me or who would abuse me that way. I also would not want to be married to someone who would tolerate me doing that to them (not that I ever would)

nicenomore and GoldenR have hit home runs on this thread

Except that's exactly what happens with them and their APs.

This 1000X over.

With H:

"Hun, would you like to spend some time together making love?"

"I need to be wined and dined, feel special, have no work stress, be in the right mood, feel close and connected to you, etc, etc, etc before I feel ready for sex".

With AP:

"Hey beautiful, what's up"

"Meet me in the stairwell downstairs in 5 mins; I'm gonna blow off this meeting. I need you in my ass"

Now that's not quoted word for work from my W's A, but, it's close enough. And this story is repeated dozens of times on here every month. I'm sorry, but this whole "well, she's just got too much to do" and "she's a mom now, that changes things". OK, yeah, I can see both points, and I think most men, myself included accept that. Until they see or hear about the exchanges like I "semi-quoted" above. And, no, there's no going back from that; because you realize darn quick that the wining/dining/timing/choreplay or whatever it else is as a "condition" on sex is complete bull. Because, when my W wanted to have sex, there was no meeting or obligation that was going to keep her from having it. No "qualifications" for the AP other than "bring your d**k and some lube".

And, yes, I think for my WW it will be the way it is now forever. Because, her A showed me, in the most painful way possible, that she was fully capable and willing to engage in all kinds of things if the payoff was high enough. Well, guess what, I'm worth it, far more than the AP's empty words were. I'm worth it, and you are either going to realize it or are going to get out. All the talk about how broken she was, and how she was just doing it for attention in the world isn't going to change those things. More than anything, I want her to want it (which she says she does, who knows, but I try to believe it); but, absent that, because I'll never really know, the only proxy I can use is "is she doing it". And if the answer is no, then the course of action for me is clear.